Illegal approaches for players

[Andys]

Head above the parapet time! Very disappointing to see officials from clubs in the top six in Combo making blatant illegal approaches for our players at the Well. Fortunately our players are happy and loyal to their club and are not swayed by promises of potential cash, nights out paid for, or the fact that a club's facilities might be better than ours. We have the screenshots from the texts concerned, let's leave it there. There might be clubs who have better facilities and can promise more than us, but the one thing you can't buy is loyalty.

[Mr Justice]

Might as well let the cat out the bag Andys. Not the St Day physio by any chance with promises of cash and a back rub?

Perranporth was a new set of boots. Nights out is a new one.

[Fanfare]

Name and shame

[Alf]

It goes on all the time, When I played years ago the opposing manager asked me to sign for him in our own bar!

[Dagerags]

Is that Camborne Barber up to his old tricks again @Mr Loverman

[Cornish Dave]

Yawn. Same old rubbish talk blah blah blah money money money. Jealously is a killer 

[Andys]

13 minutes ago, Cornish Dave said:

Yawn. Same old rubbish talk blah blah blah money money money. Jealously is a killer 

Couldn’t give a toss what other clubs or their members choose to do with their money, it’s their business, but if they’re stupid enough to text offers to our players and break the league’s rules, they deserve all they get, nothing to do with jealousy. It’s no different to putting shiny new wheels on a crappy old car, no matter what you spend on it, it will only ever be a turd rolled in glitter!

[The Magician]

Nights out paid for? Have you got any details you can send me? 

[baldy]

Fish and chip supper and a w****. Pretty standard really.

[Andys]

11 minutes ago, The Magician said:

Nights out paid for? Have you got any details you can send me? 

Heard they were exclusively for two and you both have to play golf!

[We Two]

13 hours ago, Andys said:

We have the screenshots from the texts concerned,

If you have proof of an illegal approach, and the above comment suggests that you have, you should report the people concerned to the appropiate authorities, and do the whole of the of the true football fraternity a massive favour.
It's doing no favours to anyone making comments about people who are prepared to ruin clubs to further their ends, if you are not prepared to do something about it.
Too often we hear " oh it happens all the time, what can you do about it" well now's your opportunity to do us all a good turn, your club included.
Congratulations by the way on your teams performance against St Austell.

[Andys]

9 minutes ago, We Two said:

If you have proof of an illegal approach, and the above comment suggests that you have, you should report the people concerned to the appropiate authorities, and do the whole of the of the true football fraternity a massive favour.
It's doing no favours to anyone making comments about people who are prepared to ruin clubs to further their ends, if you are not prepared to do something about it.
Too often we hear " oh it happens all the time, what can you do about it" well now's your opportunity to do us all a good turn, your club included.
Congratulations by the way on your teams performance against St Austell.

Thanks, watch this space, committee decision

[We Two]

Lets see what the committee does, they have the chance to do us all a favour, if they back off making that decision when in posession of incriminating evidence, one may wonder why.

[St Darren]

90% of players are tapped up before 7 days are put in. Why waste putting 7 days in? 

[Alan Williams]

If happens all the time and everyone will have evidence nowadays, If player's are happy they stay, If they leave for free night's out on the beer then your better off without them.

[We Two]

Agree with both above sentiments but don,t complain if you are not prepared to do anything about it when you have all the eveidence to be able to do so.

[Alan Williams]

CCFA would have to employ a lot more admin staff if every club put complaints in when it came to one of their player's being asked if he fancied a new challenge.😂

[We Two]

11 minutes ago, willy7 said:

CCFA would have to employ a lot more admin staff if every club put complaints in when it came to one of their player's being asked if he fancied a new challenge.😂

Apparently not many clubs have the incriminating evidence that Perranwell say they have in their posession.
Ignore it and it will go away is not an option if you really care about the game and want to see the available punishment dealt out to the perpetrators.    If not don't complain.
 

[Mr Justice]

I'm going to have a guess.  Top 6 club.

In your area,  Falmouth Town Res. Night out in Club International.  With the wheels falling off they need a top 6 finish to get into the new Cornish Super League.

 

[skinner]

CLUB INTERNATIONAL LAST TIME IN THERE CARPET STICKING TO MY SHOES

6 minutes ago, Mr Justice said:

I'm going to have a guess.  Top 6 club.

In your area,  Falmouth Town Res. Night out in Club International.  With the wheels falling off they need a top 6 finish to get into the new Cornish Super League.

 

 

[Mr Justice]

4 minutes ago, skinner said:

CLUB INTERNATIONAL LAST TIME IN THERE CARPET STICKING TO MY SHOES

 

You haven't been tapped up as well have you 😁

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, Mr Justice said:

You haven't been tapped up as well have you 😁

Don't think so ...he's 72 and hasn't been in club I for 30 years !!!!!

[Maler10]

It’s not just top 6 tapping up 👍🏻 Got evidence of that as well, but nothing will come of it so just scrap the 7 day approach 

[We Two]

Several people on this forum have claimed to have evidence of players having been illegally tapped up, yet not one of the claimants has stated that they are going to use that evidence to report those involved to the authorities.
There's no point moaning about players being tapped up, if when you have the proof that it has happened, you aren't prepared to do anything about it.

[CornishFan95]

1 hour ago, We Two said:

Several people on this forum have claimed to have evidence of players having been illegally tapped up, yet not one of the claimants has stated that they are going to use that evidence to report those involved to the authorities.
There's no point moaning about players being tapped up, if when you have the proof that it has happened, you aren't prepared to do anything about it.

No one has stated that they aren’t going to report the issue, I think the comments were made to make other clubs aware of what’s going on. 

[S Abbo]

There is always contact between the player and the club before the 7 days go in... weather this is from managers/players..

It is what it is... 

[We Two]

10 hours ago, CornishFan95 said:

No one has stated that they aren’t going to report the issue

We await with interest to see who WILL report their evidence.
If we are willing to accept illegal approaches as the norm and advocate doing nothing about it, why complain about it in the first place ?
It has been said that everyone knows that it goes on, but it's difficult to prove, obviously this is not so if you have the evidence.

[Andys]

1 hour ago, We Two said:

We await with interest to see who WILL report their evidence.
If we are willing to accept illegal approaches as the norm and advocate doing nothing about it, why complain about it in the first place ?
It has been said that everyone knows that it goes on, but it's difficult to prove, obviously this is not so if you have the evidence.

The club has taken the decision to formally report the matter to the FA, who we trust will deal with it accordingly.

[Dave Bartlam]

Let's just bare something in mind here...

Whilst illegal approaches are a thing, you re protected against them.

A club, in the current season can only approach one player at a club in any one 28 day period. The club can only approach one player at a time and a club can not make a second approach for the same player from the same club again in a season.

To put that into context - an approach made through Whole Game for a player will flag up to myself (Trelawny) and John Roberts (Combo). I keep a spreadsheet on my computer where I note every single approach and it it's details. I then check the periodicity of each approach so that I do not inadvertently transfer more than one player to the same club in a twenty 8 day period. 

When an approach comes in which involves the Trelawny League as the club is a member, but the approach is for a combo team, I'll make John aware.

Your League's Registration Secretary is your first port of call in these situations as he can see the approaches being made (when made using the WGS) and he is the one that deals with transfers. If an illegal approach is made, we will contact the cubs involved and let them know what's happened.

Speak to John and make him aware of the situation - if he is as efficient as I am (spreadsheet), he will have all of this information

[Andys]

Thanks Dave, appreciate the advice.

[Dave Deacon]

53 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said:

If an illegal approach is made

Surely though most of these will be difficult to prove?

[St Darren]

2 hours ago, Dave Bartlam said:

Let's just bare something in mind here...

Whilst illegal approaches are a thing, you re protected against them.

A club, in the current season can only approach one player at a club in any one 28 day period. The club can only approach one player at a time and a club can not make a second approach for the same player from the same club again in a season.

To put that into context - an approach made through Whole Game for a player will flag up to myself (Trelawny) and John Roberts (Combo). I keep a spreadsheet on my computer where I note every single approach and it it's details. I then check the periodicity of each approach so that I do not inadvertently transfer more than one player to the same club in a twenty 8 day period. 

When an approach comes in which involves the Trelawny League as the club is a member, but the approach is for a combo team, I'll make John aware.

Your League's Registration Secretary is your first port of call in these situations as he can see the approaches being made (when made using the WGS) and he is the one that deals with transfers. If an illegal approach is made, we will contact the cubs involved and let them know what's happened.

Speak to John and make him aware of the situation - if he is as efficient as I am (spreadsheet), he will have all of this information

And this is why people don’t use the 7 day approach. They speak to the player first or a conversation is held rather then waste a 7 day approach

[We Two]

3 hours ago, Andys said:

The club has taken the decision to formally report the matter to the FA, who we trust will deal with it accordingly.

Well done ( Pardon the pun ) keep us all informed of the outcome, it will be interesting to us all to know how the authorities react.

[Dave Bartlam]

1 hour ago, St Darren said:

And this is why people don’t use the 7 day approach. They speak to the player first or a conversation is held rather then waste a 7 day approach

That will never change and nothing can be done about it. The safety factor is that the transfer or registration must be done through Whole Game (SWPL joining next season) so there will be no way around it. Teams will still have to use the system to sign/transfer players so they are safeguarded so long as the Club and Registration Secretary's are switched on to it.

 

2 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

Surely though most of these will be difficult to prove?

Dave, the only way it can be proven is by "evidence". Conversation screenshots etc. All of that is completely irrelevant though when leagues are using Whole Game for registrations and transfers because this system alerts you to it. It's not perfect, hence why I also keep a spreadsheet of every single approach and transfer that is made. You'll never stop the approaches for players in pubs, the supermarket queue etc 

 

[Alf]

People can screenshot conversation's but the person accused can say he was doing it as a wind up or say his mate used his phone without knowing. I can't see how someone can be punished unless they admit it.

[Dave Bartlam]

26 minutes ago, Alf said:

People can screenshot conversation's but the person accused can say he was doing it as a wind up or say his mate used his phone without knowing. I can't see how someone can be punished unless they admit it.

The players aren't punished. The club's can be though. Obviously as with all FA charges, it could be appealed. 

I think in most cases, this sort of thing is put down to ignorance; in some respects it's down to lack of knowledge of FA ruling. 

I just encourage clubs to contact me if there's an issue, we can keep it in house with no need for punishments. Just a gentle reminder to the club's 

[John Mead]

8 hours ago, Dave Bartlam said:

The club can only approach one player at a time and a club can not make a second approach for the same player from the same club again in a season.

 

Dave, I believe the FA wording dictates that Clubs may not put in an approach more than once in a season for the same player. It doesn't mention "from the same Club". (Unless it's changed!) So, even if the player moves to a third Club, the single approach in a season rule still applies

[St Darren]

37 minutes ago, John Mead said:

Dave, I believe the FA wording dictates that Clubs may not put in an approach more than once in a season for the same player. It doesn't mention "from the same Club". (Unless it's changed!) So, even if the player moves to a third Club, the single approach in a season rule still applies

Therefore 99 times out of 100 the club will always speak to a player before the 7 days goes in or else it’s a waste. 

Just let players go regardless of the 7 days approach but keep a limit on the amount you can take from a club

[Mr Justice]

I think its only fair that clubs get a period of time to talk to a player.

[Dave Bartlam]

4 hours ago, John Mead said:

Dave, I believe the FA wording dictates that Clubs may not put in an approach more than once in a season for the same player. It doesn't mention "from the same Club". (Unless it's changed!) So, even if the player moves to a third Club, the single approach in a season rule still applies

That is correct John. When making that previous comment, I didn't take into account if the player was to transfer between clubs beforehand. I was thinking more along the lines if a team were to make an approach, the player didn't go... And then that team makes another approach for him at a later date

 

[Titus Bramble]

Out of interest... in order to put forward a 7 day approach using the WGS am I right in thinking you need the players name, address and D.O.B? 

If this is the case then how is a club supposed to make an approach without first contacting the player...?

[We Two]

14 hours ago, Dave Bartlam said:

I just encourage clubs to contact me if there's an issue, we can keep it in house with no need for punishments.

Think you may need to be a little careful there if as an official you are prepared to bend the F.A. rules and make judgements where clubs are concerned.
It also leaves you open to being accused of favouritism toward a certain club, and is why all such problems should be dealt with by the appropiate authorities who set the rule and no doubt have their own interpretation of how and when it should be invoked.
Not intended as a criticisim, just pointing out a possible downside.

[cornishteddyboy]

How far up does it have to be an illegal approach. Does it have to from a club official such as secretary, manager, first aider or even supporter,  or if two blokes in a bar play for different teams and one says "you ought to come play for us we don't pay subs like you do"?

The latter example must happen dozens a time a week up and down the county. 

So as I say what is a true "Illegal Approach"?

[Dave Bartlam]

3 hours ago, We Two said:

Think you may need to be a little careful there if as an official you are prepared to bend the F.A. rules and make judgements where clubs are concerned.
It also leaves you open to being accused of favouritism toward a certain club, and is why all such problems should be dealt with by the appropiate authorities who set the rule and no doubt have their own interpretation of how and when it should be invoked.
Not intended as a criticisim, just pointing out a possible downside.

By in house, I mean we deal with it from a league point of view as opposed to taking it up to county. This is what happens in most cases. I simply email the club involved and make them aware of the ruling. Only once this season have I referred a case to county which was for continuous rule breaches with regards to player approaches. Usually, it's just a case of making the club aware of the ruling - educating over punishing is a much better method of dealing with these sort of things. 

1 hour ago, cornishteddyboy said:

How far up does it have to be an illegal approach. Does it have to from a club official such as secretary, manager, first aider or even supporter,  or if two blokes in a bar play for different teams and one says "you ought to come play for us we don't pay subs like you do"?

The latter example must happen dozens a time a week up and down the county. 

So as I say what is a true "Illegal Approach"?

It's anyone that talks to the player without first submitting the notice. The player can also breach ruling if he was signed to a club but approached another club.

Let's be real though, no matter what ruling is in place, there is absolutely no way you will ever stop clubs approaching players from another club. Everyone knows that. It can't be prevented. I'll put an extract from the ruling below:

Rule 18

h. i. During the current season any Club wishing to approach a Player known to be registered with or having played for any other Club must give to the secretary of each such Club, seven days’ formal written notice of the intention to approach the Player.

Formal written notice of approach need be given by:

a. a Saturday Club only to all Saturday Clubs;

b. a Sunday Club only to all Sunday Clubs; and

c. a midweek Club only to all midweek Clubs.

ii. The written notice must be sent by special delivery or recorded post, or the Whole Game System, or a written acknowledgment otherwise obtained from the secretary or chairman of the Club approached. Facsimile or e-mail transmission may be used provided a receipt of acknowledgment is also obtained;

iii. Following the date of posting of the written notice of approach, or receipt of an acknowledgment:

a. the Player may be registered on or after the eighth day; and

b. the Player must have been registered on or before the 21st day.

c. Should the Club in receipt of the approach object to the transfer it should state its objections in writing to the Registrations Secretary and to the player concerned within three days of receipt of the notice of approach. 

In the event of an objection to a transfer the matter shall be referred to the Management Committee for a decision.

iv. a. Upon receipt of the Club's consent, by the submission of a suitably completed Transfer Form (in a format as determined by the Competition) and the transfer fee listed in the Fees Tariff to the Registrations Secretary, and in the absence of any written objections to the transfer, the Registrations Secretary may, on behalf of the Management Committee, transfer the player who shall be deemed eligible to play for the new Club once an acknowledgement has been received from the Registrations Secretary that the transfer is complete.

Consent for the transfer may be submitted by e-mail or text (from the Club Secretary ONLY) to the registration Secretary and this may be accepted in lieu of his/her signature.

A transfer fee as set out in the Fees Tariff shall be paid for each transfer.

b. Fully completed transfer forms may be submitted immediately prior to a match by facsimile or e-mail. Where it is not possible to submit a fully completed Transfer Form by facsimile or e-mail prior to a match an Officer of the opposing Club shall countersign the form prior to the start of the match and the player shall be eligible for that fixture. In both sets of circumstances above the original form is to be submitted to the Registrations Secretary within three days (Sundays excluded) subsequent to the match. Where the team sheet is entered into Full Time before the transfer has been received and processed by the Competition players transferred under this Rule are to be identified in the ‘Notes’ section of the Full-Time Team Sheet entry page or their names e-mailed to the Registration Secretary immediately after the game. The Player shall not play again until the Club is in possession of the approval of the Competition (see 8b(vi) below).

A maximum of sixteen players may be transferred in this way by each team for any given match and shall count to the total of 16 allowed at 8b(i)c above.

v. The approaching Club:

a. may not approach the same Player a second time in the same playing season;

b. may approach only one (1) Player at a Club at any time subject to Rule 8i(ix) below; and,

c. may not approach another Player at the same Club within 28 days of an earlier notice of approach or acknowledgment.

Note. An approaching club shall not request the transfer of a player unless that player has been registered with his current club for 14 days.

vi. If an approach is made by a Player to another Club during the current season, that Club shall give the Club(s), for which the Player is known to be registered or has played, seven days’ notice of approach as set out in Rule 8i (i) to (v) above before registering the Player.

vii. A Club which is the subject of a complaint alleging failure to give notice in accordance with this Rule may be subject to a charge of Misconduct.

viii. A Club proved to have breached the provisions of this Rule may have its current registration of the Player cancelled and be subject to such other penalties as The Cornwall County Football Association deems appropriate, in accordance with relevant regulations of The Association from time to time in force; and

ix. During the current season a maximum of two Players may be approached in the manner described above if invited to trial at a licensed academy or “Centre of Excellence” of The Association, The FA Premier League or The Football League.

 

[isaac rosenberg]

All ridiculous. Pages and pages of bullshit about a bunch of drunk donkeys brawling and rolling round in their own vomit. No change whatsoever since I used to misuse every college database in Cornwal. Ni GDPR or Data Pritecttiob then. Tell John Roberts ? LMFAO .Ask him about when he tried to refuse an address of a player to the St Just secretary. Five minutes later a friend rang him again purporting to be John Nrad and was immediately given all the addresses of the St Just squad. Ask him about how he tried to bkick up Hus letter box so the seven day approach made for Helston's John NcCallum would lapse if not delivrred by midnight, so  it had to be photographed and forced through Hus bathroom window. Utter farce, with about as much to do with moral integrity as Phil the Greek has to do with advanced Range Rover driving. Some clubs long to he rrkrgatrd to the Trelawny just to get away from him. Talking to other clubs' players ? The population of players has depleted so much that thuscwill eventually mean you can't even speak to your team mates.you don't need more CCFA administrators, but fewer. You need to junk the useless, greed-inspired, corrupt English FA altogether and paddle your own canoe. I can't think of anything that would be more entertaining than playing Pendeen, Marazipn and Penzance and kicking each other to death ten times a year. followed by all being the best of friends and kicking each other to death again.This is what Norse mythology called Valhalla. It was a sort of Troon version of heaven. Seven days my posterior ! These FA rule bibbers should he forced to go round in threes, like in the old Czech policeman joke...one to read. One to write and one to keep an eye on the other two dangerous intellectuals. 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

27 minutes ago, isaac rosenberg said:

All ridiculous. Pages and pages of bullshit about a bunch of drunk donkeys brawling and rolling round in their own vomit. No change whatsoever since I used to misuse every college database in Cornwal. Ni GDPR or Data Pritecttiob then. Tell John Roberts ? LMFAO .Ask him about when he tried to refuse an address of a player to the St Just secretary. Five minutes later a friend rang him again purporting to be John Nrad and was immediately given all the addresses of the St Just squad. Ask him about how he tried to bkick up Hus letter box so the seven day approach made for Helston's John NcCallum would lapse if not delivrred by midnight, so  it had to be photographed and forced through Hus bathroom window. Utter farce, with about as much to do with moral integrity as Phil the Greek has to do with advanced Range Rover driving. Some clubs long to he rrkrgatrd to the Trelawny just to get away from him. Talking to other clubs' players ? The population of players has depleted so much that thuscwill eventually mean you can't even speak to your team mates.you don't need more CCFA administrators, but fewer. You need to junk the useless, greed-inspired, corrupt English FA altogether and paddle your own canoe. I can't think of anything that would be more entertaining than playing Pendeen, Marazipn and Penzance and kicking each other to death ten times a year. followed by all being the best of friends and kicking each other to death again.This is what Norse mythology called Valhalla. It was a sort of Troon version of heaven. Seven days my posterior ! These FA rule bibbers should he forced to go round in threes, like in the old Czech policeman joke...one to read. One to write and one to keep an eye on the other two dangerous intellectuals. 

And which one of those policeman are you isaac (?)

Are you feeling better after that rant ...lol

I won't ask if you are well, as you so obviously are on top form ....luv it.

[Dave Bartlam]

I'm just catching my breath..

[Martin Eddy]

Good to read your rants again isaac

[We Two]

Has he missed taking his tablets ? 🙄

[baldy]

4 hours ago, We Two said:

Has he missed taking his tablets ? 🙄

As We Two is a relatively new member of the forum, I suggest his comment is a bit derogatory. Issac is an intelligent gentleman, very opinionated, usually right (IMHO) and exceedingly entertaining.