Jump to content
Cornwall Football Forum

Dave Bartlam

  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by Dave Bartlam

  1. Martin has now stepped up to officiate a couple of games. Legend.
  2. @Sijamesin this exact scenario, the original ball is not the thing a referee considers. It has no bearing on the decision making process. The referee is only considering whether the touch from a defending player is deliberate or not. If the referee deems it to be deliberate, carry on. If the referee doesn't deem it to be deliberate, the offside is given. It is literally that simple. The hard thing is that judgement call on what is deemed to be deliberate or not. So with that in mind, the original ball plays no bearing in the referees decision making in this situation (obviously had there been no touch by the defending player, the original ball then becomes important). Can't believe I'm actually having to justify this 🤷‍♂️ well I can believe it as it's come from you! Out of interest, how many games have you ever refereed?
  3. I'm not even going to justify that with a response. @Dave Deaconthere is a definition of deliberate within the lawbook, as there is in the dictionary. I'd quote it but I wouldn't even get that right apparently 🤷‍♂️🤣
  4. I wasn't at the game and haven't seen the goal so I don't have an opinion (I also wouldn't voice it on here). However if you've got a referee and a qualified assistant both agreeing that it was a deliberate touch... I'd trust their instincts. I think all teams just need to be lucky they have referees... There was a club looking for an assistant referee today... For an FA Vase game! It's catching up to step 6 and it won't be long until assistant referees could be a thing of the past at that level (in my opinion). What are the players on at the same level? 👀👀 I'm sure a club Treasurer can confirm but I think that clubs are actually saving money with set fees this way.
  5. Incorrect. It's not the original ball that counts in this scenario. It's not an offence to be stood in an offside position. If the ball has been deliberately played by an opponent and it falls to a player who is in an offside position, no advantage is gained and thus, there is no offside. 'A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent.'
  6. I forgot that your blog was a charity one mate (sorry). In that case, please put any contributions received for the programmes into that charity as a donation from us
  7. It is. We have a Sunday League game in the morning which means that the Reserves players that had agreed to play in that must travel straight from Falmouth to Helston for a second game, some of them can't play so we've had to call on more Flexi League players. We see it as being pro-active but it is simply papering over the cracks. I think it is absolutely ludicrous that we are forced to have someone with absolutely no refereeing experience or sound knowledge of the Laws of the Game being thrown into a situation where they have absolutely no idea what to do. We have trained and experienced referees that have tough games in The Trelawny League, games that test them - however the FA find it necessary to chuck someone completely unqualified into these games a Match Officials. 'It's okay, they have the full power of a registered referee'... That's all well and good but they don't have the knowledge or experience to deal with it. Personally, I will not let someone from my Club be put in that situation. It isn't fair and all we are doing is covering a problem. Whilst the FA are fully aware of the situation at the grassroots level, the games are being played so no issues arise in terms of fixture congestion. Everything is fine and dandy!
  8. Dropship Reserves v Helston Raiders has been moved to Sunday 12th September to enable us to get a referee. Many thanks to the League, Luke Wilkes and Helston Raiders for helping us to get this arranged.
  9. Thanks for your support, it really is appreciated ♥️ Not sure what you mean by that Peggy. Just with facilities alone, our expenditure has far exceeded the expenditure faced by most clubs at our level this season - that's just to ensure we meet the respective league 'requirements'. It's probably worth noting that we also offered our programme free of charge to @Midlandsman and those on his groups. We've worked very hard to secure sponsorship this season, not just with our obvious sponsor in Dropship.co.uk, but also with multiple companies such as Exhibit 1, Restaurant Four, Securiskim, A2B Taxi's, cafe strand, IspyCCTV, Elysian Fields, Travis Perkins, CJ's Restaurant, Let's Get a Gift, PCC Limited and RachFromCornwall. Difference between us and the other Grassroots Clubs, we have 6 open aged teams to support. We don't have a bar or any way of making money without player contribution and sponsorship 😕 To think that we don't need funding and sponsorship is a bit naiive mate 😕
  10. It's not just here in Cornwall... Hello and thank you for taking the time to read this open letter. I wanted to take this opportunity to provide an update and make all of our stakeholders aware of the current challenges we face on the refereeing side of the game. In what has been a really difficult and challenging 18 months due to the Covid-19 pandemic, we have been working hard throughout this period to engage, support and offer our volunteer workforce as much support as we possibly can, which has included online training and development, guest speakers, training modules, mental health and wellbeing support and regular contact to ensure our referees feel supported and valued. Also, during this period we set up our inaugural ‘Match Official Consultation Group’ in order to ensure that we better engage and listen to the needs of our referee workforce and look to implement any key changes to offer improved support and development. Listening to our volunteer workforce is something that I am very passionate about and I’ll ensure we do this at regular intervals during the season. As the vast majority of our leagues commence their respective seasons this coming weekend, it is sad to hear of the shortage of referees completing their registration for 2021/22 or making themselves available to leagues and clubs. This is not only a problem that we are experiencing here at North Riding County FA – it appears to be a problem nationally. In order to be fully transparent, as of today (9 September), our re-registration sign up is around 69% of last season’s registrations. We are working extremely hard to try and increase and welcome back the 31% that have not completed the process so far, and we hope that many will over the coming weeks. In the past month, we have also trained around 60 new referees and we are currently supporting them through mentor support and ongoing training, to ensure they make the transition into grassroots football. Clearly, there is a number of reasons for the shortage, and the Covid-19 pandemic has played a significant part in perhaps a number not completing their re-registration due to losing some interest or other key reasons. I do, however, feel that I need to raise the following points and ask for the support of our ‘grassroots family’ to ensure that we all play our part in ensuring we can recruit and retain enough referees to support the grassroots game. I feel everybody within the game needs to consider the way in which they treat referees. Some of the reported conduct and behaviour that I and my colleagues hear about and have to deal with on a weekly basis is totally unacceptable and quite simply does not help to recruit and retain referees. Whilst the conduct and behaviour is not the sole reason for the shortage, it is a fundamental reason, and everybody within the game must consider and change their behaviour towards referees or the shortage will only increase. I fully understand how passionate a game of football is for everybody involved (players, coaches, parents and family members) and our referees understand this too and work very hard to ensure you all have a positive experience on a weekend. Our referees make honest decisions, yes they will make mistakes, just like our players and coaches will do – this is football, and at times, a decision or two will go against your team, and not be ideal or what you expect – we all understand this, and trust me; nobody is more disappointed at making a mistake than a referee! I am asking you all to reflect upon how you perhaps engage with our referees and any comments you may make during or after the game, and just think that the referee in your game this weekend or next has given up his / her time to try and allow you and your son / daughter’s team to enjoy a game of football to the best of their ability. They are not perfect and won’t get every decision correct, nor please both teams every time. This is not possible, but they will work hard and they have no interest in who wins the game. Also, if you see other people being abusive to the referee at your game, either on the pitch or on the sidelines, we encourage you to challenge this behaviour in an appropriate manner, to make others reconsider their actions. I and members of my volunteer Referee Development Team have to deal with some of the unacceptable experiences that our referees endure. At times we are dealing with young people who could be your son or daughter, or a more experienced person who could be a father or wife of somebody who is verbally abused because they simply make an honest decision that you perhaps don’t agree with. Over the coming months, it is likely that a number of our local games will not have a referee appointed and teams will need to agree to officiate the game themselves. I appreciate that this is not ideal, and we are working tirelessly to address this matter and hopefully the situation will improve. If you are lucky to have a referee, please treat them with respect, and perhaps engage with some positive comments and remember they are doing their best and will not be perfect. In order to be fully transparent, I would like to confirm that referees are also held to account over their conduct when it comes to the way in which they speak with stakeholders, and this is not a ‘closed shop’. We do fully investigate referees that are reported for any such alleged incidents, albeit this is very rare. Referees who make a ‘footballing’ decision and perhaps get it wrong is just part and parcel of the game, unless it is contrary to Law. We have a significant number of young referees who are under the age of 18, and these referees should be clearly identified by the wearing of their U18 YELLOW REFEREE ARMBAND. It is totally inappropriate for anybody to engage or offer any abusive comments to a minor. As a County FA we have zero tolerance approach to this, and should a participant be found guilty this will be reported to the FA’s Safeguarding Department, as well as be dealt with by our disciplinary department. We have a zero-tolerance approach to any misconduct towards any of our referees and ask that all stakeholders support our referees should they see any behaviour of this sort. I would also like to thank the majority of our clubs who fully support our referees and for their ongoing commitment. Whilst I have documented the above, it is only fair to say and document that we have thousands of games taking place each month with a real positive experience, and lots of positive feedback by both referee and clubs, and this is something that we look forward to this coming season. Finally, I would like to say a massive ‘thanks’ to all of our referees who have signed up for 2021-22 and who go out there each week, in at times what can be really challenging circumstances, and do their best to ensure thousands of games of football take place each month in a safe environment. It is fully appreciated by us all here at North Riding County FA. We are working hard to ensure you all feel valued and can go out and referee fully prepared. Whilst we don’t always get it right, we will continue to work hard to support each and every one of you and make improvements to refereeing as best we can. Best wishes to everybody for the 2021-22 season!Ross Joyce Referee Development Manager North Riding County FA
  11. @Glen Pattersonwhat a player young Jak is!! That's what, 12 goals for Penryn and Dropship In his last 5 games?
  12. I'd imagine it's very condensed and the Club referee wouldn't be added on the referee list? Personally, I'd encourage clubs to invest in putting a player through the course which will hopefully be cheaper soon - or even better, any players coming to the end of their playing career would be an asset
  13. Greta effort mate, well done to all involved. It's been a difficult two seasons so I bet it was a massive relief at full time. Well done
  14. Without looking, I don't think that ruling (teamsheets) could be changed at the AGM. I'm pretty sure that like the one about the referee, it's mandatory.
  15. I remember playing for Titans a few seasons ago... Had to ref a game... Yellow carded one of my own players, he asked me not to send it in... I'm obligated to send it in... I sent it in... He transferred to Illogan the very next day 😳 It's not always an easy task (reffing your own side) but you do tend to favour the opposing team as you don't want to be blamed for being biased
  16. I appreciate that, thank you. This is why I got into reffing - I played, fed up with games being called off so I took the course. I've dabbled between playing and reffing over the past few seasons but back reffing this season, obviously still playing when I can. I tried so hard when on the Trelawny Panel to get some players through the course and it's great to see some of them still either occasionally picking up the whistle or doing it full time. George McVey, Nick Tomba, Peggy Mitchell, Alan Smith, Neil Pitt, Sam Doble, Will Annear, Neil Stephens etc to name but a few all refereeing having come from playing backrounds. I'm a firm believer that ex players make the best referees (although there are good ones that haven't played). Let's hope more have a go soon
  17. 10000% my stance aswell. When I was on the Trelawny Committee, the losing club would mark 61, winning club would mark around the 90 area. It was evident to see. The standard expected (ish) is 70. So when I saw a 61 (anything below and you have to write a small report), I'd email the club and say I expect a report or the mark needs to be changed to 70 or above. Let's get something straight though - sometimes refs aren't all that great. Some are new and have little experience and knowledge, some are experienced but are aging, some are good young experienced referees but y'know what, they may have had a crap week or morning and refereeing isn't at the forefront of their mind, but they turn up to do it anyway so as the teams don't go without. I've been in that situation a number of times recently because I've got alot going on, it can certainly affect performance. I've come off games before thinking 's**t. I've underperformed here. They deserve better'. Take last week... I was centre of attention on the forum and I really wanted to put my point across... But I won't do it. Yet, as soon as that final whistle went at that game, all the way through to today, I'm still going over my performance in my head. I still hear what was said to me, I still see the stuff written on the forum... It doesn't bother me more than it annoys me, but for others, it really does affect them. Refs will always critique their performance all the way up to the next game. They'll always take what they learnt into the next game too. We aren't there to mess up anyone's day. We are there as a neutral, to do a job. Unfortunately, doing it right sometimes makes us very unpopular. A good example is I got hit by the ball last week... I got hassle for not stopping the game for a good 20 minutes after... Someone came on the forum, said about it and was corrected to show that I was correct in law to continue. Because of the lack of knowledge of the law, I took a hammering. Yet when explaining to a player that we get examined every year on the LOTG, the chances are (at this level), all the technical offences, we are making the correct decision. All it takes is one person to say 'hes probably right. Trust him' or 'yeah I've seen this, he's spot on" and that would have sorted it. But they didn't and there's another cause of the problem that is absolutely hammering Cornwall right now. I just wish that for one weekend, or two, the likes of the St Piran League, SWPL, Western League etc could do what the Trelawny League teams are having to do on a very regular basis (one of my teams has no ref for the third consecutive week) and supply a referee and assistants themselves. I can bet you that it wouldn't be long until clubs are begging for the refs back! Apologies for the essays but this sort of thing, I'm passionate about because all I try and do is promote refereeing.
  18. Oh I know... I'm one of them back in the day that used to change the way I reffed in order to get the good marks. We say we don't do it but we do change the way we do things when being observed, sometimes it might only be very slight mannerisms... Absolutely they do. Trust me, I'm with you here. One of the reasons it's taken me so long to go for my promotion is that I never wanted to ref on the SWPL because of the grief the refs get. I've run the line on it for a few years now and I enjoy that, but the middle is a different entity altogether. However, i refer back to my point I made earlier about marks and promotion. I remember saying to a good friend of mine not long ago when I was lining to him 'why do you take so much s**t'.. 'because I have too. If I don't, I'm back to being a level 5'. How many complaints do we see on this forum for the card happy refs? How many do we see for the ones that let it all go? Then how many do we see for the guys that do it right but still get grief? You honestly just can't win. It's why you don't get referees commenting on their games anymore. I refuse to comment on any of my games now. I love refereeing. Out of every 20 or 30 games I do, only 1 will normally make me think 'wtf am I wasting my time for'... I've said it time and time again, if players, managers etc just accepted decisions, didn't argue, didn't give the ref abuse and just let them manage and officiate the game, I would put my mortgage on it that the standard of refereeing would improve - because the refs can solely focus on his decison making as opposed to all the other stuff. They'd be happier, they'd enjoy the game and they'd perform. Look at Karen, works in customer service... hates her job, gets grief from employer, colleagues, customers... Performs below standard. Same Karen, has supportive colleagues, supportive bosses and her customers phone her up, speak to her with respect and dignity... Performs miles above standard. It's no different to reffing.
  19. Of course the games are reffed differently. They're completely different standards of football with completely different attitudes, behaviours and skill levels. They have to be reffed differently - only someone that has refereed would understand that though (no offence). Look at the Premier League, again, reffed differently to National League etc. It's all about who you're reffing and at what standard. Me personally, I much rather refereeing at the bottom end of the pyramid. It's a lot easier and you get far, far less abuse. That's just poor form. I got blamed for a refs performance by a team last week when I went to carry out an observation. Figure that one!
  20. It's easy. The Trelawny games, in terms of progression, will not hamper a referees ability to get promoted. They certainly don't get demoted. At level four (SWPL), club marks play a part in the banding. So because of that, referees try to 'manage' situations where in the lower league's, you'd just bin/send off. At level four, it's the first step that you get to be demoted as a referee. Refs want to officiate at the highest levels (Cornwall is a bit different due to travel, majority are happy at four) so they have to get the marks from observers and teams in order to retain that status. In my opinion, the top five causes of referees leaving the game are: Abuse during the game Abuse after the game on social media Family/other commitments Better things to do on a Saturday Travel It is only going to get worse.
  21. Just treat officials with respect. Unfortunately, the referee shortage doesn't affect the the SWPL (although I l believe they were using club assistants not so long ago), however the SWPL players, management and 'supporters' directly influence (and push) referees to quit. Cornwall FA are working so hard to recruit referees- recruitment of which isn't the problem. The problem is retention. Who in their right mind wants to give up a Saturday to take s**t for 90 minutes and then have to read all about their performance on here and social media in the aftermath, written by blinkered eyed people with only one side of the situation and with very little knowledge or understanding of the laws whilst the players that received cautions, got sent off, that caused the referee issues, mis timed passes, missed open goals etc get away with no criticism? Most of the time, clubs grievances come as a result of them not knowing or understanding the laws of the game... I suggested not long ago that actually, all league's should feel the affects of the referee shortage, not just those at the bottom of the pyramid. That won't happen though as those on the pyramid are pretty much protected. It wasn't that long ago that the abuse (and that's exactly what it is) referees were facing was creating a movement for refs to simply close their dates for a week or two... Part of me thinks that needs to happen. Staggering dates and days doesn't help either. We've already seen at the lower levels, clubs struggling for refs midweek when there are significantly less matches being fixtures. The simple truth is that there are not enough referees and there is very few incentives to progress or continue. As someone that works hard to promote and recruit/retain referees, I find it hard to encourage them as time goes on.
  22. Because not all clubs are honest. Player registration irregularities, eligibility issues, playing under different names, playing whilst suspended. Then there's the bit for referees for misconduct and discipline. They still have to hand teamsheets to officials and opposition in the top flight. Paper teamsheets are a way of administration between clubs and officials whilst the online teamsheets are a way of administering for league's - both methods being important.
  • Create New...