Bond Timber Cornwall Junior Cup, QF - Sat Feb 16 2019

[MattP]

3 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

What a pathetic thread. 

I hope the referee (who is actually a person) is not reading this.

Today's society raises it's ugly head again.

Totally agree - referees have good games and they have bad games, the same as players and managers. No need to be targeting and, worse still, naming them, if they’ve given things that didn’t go somebody’s way, not seen something or, heaven forbid, made a mistake 

[Dave Bartlam]

2 hours ago, Z1ned1ne said:

You sound very much like a referee yourself Dave

That's why I'm posting

I had a game earlier in the season between Wendron and Illogan in the Combo. I left that ground feeling deflated with certain aspects of my performance - notably missing a handball which led to a goal - seen by everyone but me it appeared. 

That evening, I was disappointed as I evaluated my performance. I got a good mark from the home team but a below 60 report from the visitors which warranted an Adverse Report - my first ever one. I was annoyed at the fact I'd missed that handball and I'd also thought about how I could have done things differently. I was beating myself up over that game for a few weeks believe it or not. Thankfully, neither team posted any rubbish online about me - Wendron using the procedure laid down by the League and FA to evaluate my performance. 

For me, whilst I was disappointed to receive my first adverse report (although I never physically received it so I'm not sure if they ever actually submitted one), I was glad that the club were professional enough to use the appropriate measures in place instead of taking to social media like most. 

Long winded way of going about making a point... But slating referees in here doesn't do anyone any favours, it can often have an adverse effect.

[Soccerforumfollower]

I think the referees have a very tough job to do and it’s only gotten harder since I was playing in the 80’s. I don’t usually follow the junior side of cornish football but perhaps I should if it’s this entertaining !

Correct me if I’m wrong, but are you saying Players from St Mawgan are making these allegations Dave?

[Dave Bartlam]

19 minutes ago, Soccerforumfollower said:

 

Correct me if I’m wrong, but are you saying Players from St Mawgan are making these allegations Dave?

Not at all. The point I've tried to make is that as referees we have bad days. We do get things wrong, particularly at this level where we have no assistance from neutral assistant referees - other trusting eyes.  

As refs, we are our biggest critics, I can assure you of that. What we don't need is hanging out to dry on social media. Everyone is welcome to an opinion, that's their right. However, it would just be nice for people to be mindful of the fact that referees are human. 

As a guy that wears both a player cap and and referee cap, I know that of a referee has made a questionable decision, it's because he's been put in a position where he has to make a questionable decision.

I am going to assume, rightly or wrongly that during this game, the referee may have been getting some stick... That also really doesn't help a performance. Whilst it's all well and good criticising a referee, players/managers/spectators etc also have to look at themselves in such situations.

The referee may well have had a bad game - but it's important to follow protocol instead of slagging the guy off on social media. 

Today is a new day

[footballfollower2000]

12 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said:

Not at all. The point I've tried to make is that as referees we have bad days. We do get things wrong, particularly at this level where we have no assistance from neutral assistant referees - other trusting eyes.  

As refs, we are our biggest critics, I can assure you of that. What we don't need is hanging out to dry on social media. Everyone is welcome to an opinion, that's their right. However, it would just be nice for people to be mindful of the fact that referees are human. 

As a guy that wears both a player cap and and referee cap, I know that of a referee has made a questionable decision, it's because he's been put in a position where he has to make a questionable decision.

I am going to assume, rightly or wrongly that during this game, the referee may have been getting some stick... That also really doesn't help a performance. Whilst it's all well and good criticising a referee, players/managers/spectators etc also have to look at themselves in such situations.

The referee may well have had a bad game - but it's important to follow protocol instead of slagging the guy off on social media. 

Today is a new day

I totally agree with you Dave, one thing I will add though is, I actually praised the referee for his abilities, and put it down to a bad day at the office, which we all know can happen at any level of the game, from both players and officials, as well as in all other walks of life.

No malice or hard feelings from me whatsoever. So I wouldn’t class my comments as ‘slagging off’

In years gone by these opinions and comments wouldn’t have gone any further than the pub after the game, but in the technological age were in, these platforms to post opinions, means things like this can happen. 

[St Darren]

Perhaps if all referees booked players for abusive language, kicking the ball away, deliberate handball and all other offences all of the time then players wouldn’t Moab as much because there would be consistency in the implementation of the laws. It’s not difficult. A referee is going to miss things at times because they can’t see everything but get the simple things right with consistency and you’ll get rid I’d lots of the abuse that referees get 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Anybody would think we play football for a living!

It's a pastime at our level, no more than that.

I like to have a bit of banter with the ref before and after the game,  try to make him feel as if he is part of the day, he/she should be able to enjoy the day as well. 

Time for many to realise they may not be as good as they think they are, and look at the mistakes they make during a game....A lot more than the referee for sure. 

[bighairydave]

25 minutes ago, St Darren said:

Perhaps if all referees booked players for abusive language, kicking the ball away, deliberate handball and all other offences all of the time then players wouldn’t Moab as much because there would be consistency in the implementation of the laws. It’s not difficult. A referee is going to miss things at times because they can’t see everything but get the simple things right with consistency and you’ll get rid I’d lots of the abuse that referees get 

The day players are as consistent as that will be the day a referee is.

[St Darren]

11 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

The day players are as consistent as that will be the day a referee is.

There is no law on how to play football!!!

if referees laid down the law and delivered it consistently then I honestly believe it would eventually cut down on abuse. They’ve tried all sorts over the last few years, handshakes, 10 yards, has it made any difference?  Just deliver the laws, players would soon get used to a card for abusive language. But it needs to happen at a higher level. Not just premier league, i’m talking about SWL level. 

I really can’t see it being that difficult to implement. 

[Dave Bartlam]

16 minutes ago, St Darren said:

There is no law on how to play football!!!

if referees laid down the law and delivered it consistently then I honestly believe it would eventually cut down on abuse. They’ve tried all sorts over the last few years, handshakes, 10 yards, has it made any difference?  Just deliver the laws, players would soon get used to a card for abusive language. But it needs to happen at a higher level. Not just premier league, i’m talking about SWL level. 

I really can’t see it being that difficult to implement. 

You won't see consistency like that until referee marking is taken away from the clubs.

[St Darren]

6 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said:

You won't see consistency like that until referee marking is taken away from the clubs.

That’s down to the FA isn’t it? 

Do you see what I’m saying though? It’s a simple solution that would work in a short space of time. But because some referees want to deliver the laws differently in different matches it leads to this problem. 

[Dave Bartlam]

34 minutes ago, St Darren said:

That’s down to the FA isn’t it? 

Do you see what I’m saying though? It’s a simple solution that would work in a short space of time. But because some referees want to deliver the laws differently in different matches it leads to this problem. 

Yep, down to the FA and it'll never change. I'm not even sure it's something that a league could implement into their ruling?

Unfortunately when I first started out reffing, I was by the book with every decision. If it was a mandatory caution, I'd issue it. It did me no favours with my marks

 

The higher up you go, the more these marks mean 😕

[St Darren]

Just now, Dave Bartlam said:

Yep, down to the FA and it'll never change. I'm not even sure it's something that a league could implement into their ruling?

Unfortunately when I first started out reffing, I was by the book with every decision. If it was a mandatory caution, I'd issue it. It did me no favours with my marks 😕

So you delivered the laws and received bad marks for it. 

If every ref did this then there would be less inconsistency and players/managers would accept it and in all fairness would probably cut the offences down. 

However, with the draconian FA at all levels you’re probably right as they don’t want to see loads of bookings and sendings off at the top level. 

[Billy Davies]

Fact. The players and refs are on a par. Similar abilities same level of mistakes. Player errors accepted, refs errors castigated.

[S Abbo]

How boring...🙄🙄

[Luke Gibbons]

4 hours ago, Billy Davies said:

Fact. The players and refs are on a par. Similar abilities same level of mistakes. Player errors accepted, refs errors castigated.

Totally agree Billy.

You'll also always have abuse on this site. So many hide behind a name knowing that it'll never come back on them instead of engaging in healthy debate. 

[St Darren]

9 hours ago, L.Gibbons said:

Totally agree Billy.

You'll also always have abuse on this site. So many hide behind a name knowing that it'll never come back on them instead of engaging in healthy debate. 

My post was trying to cause healthy debate as i firmly believe if refs played to the letter of the law on all dissent then it would eradicate it

[Fanfare]

17 hours ago, St Darren said:

There is no law on how to play football!!!

if referees laid down the law and delivered it consistently then I honestly believe it would eventually cut down on abuse. They’ve tried all sorts over the last few years, handshakes, 10 yards, has it made any difference?  Just deliver the laws, players would soon get used to a card for abusive language. But it needs to happen at a higher level. Not just premier league, i’m talking about SWL level. 

I really can’t see it being that difficult to implement. 

Too much of a referee's decision is on how they see it. Opinions on if something is deliberate or not. If something became black or white instead of grey would make things easier.

[Jimmer06]

On 18/02/2019 at 09:15, Dave Bartlam said:

I'll tell you something... If I was Paul and I'd reffed these two teams and then read this rubbish... I'd stay on the game next week.

If the club failed to confirm on time, I'd report it. Captain not wearing an armband... Reported. Any slight breach of law that requires a caution would be administered without "managing" it.

You want to moan about me and publicly slate me, you've aksed for me to be officious and I would do my job 100% in accordance with league rule and the laws of the game.

Petty? Maybe. But that is no way as bad as the public slating he has received on here!

Karma can be a bitch. 

Personally, im of the opinion Paul would still approach this game like any other and in a professional manner.

My personal and somewhat aggrieved opinion!

Surely this reaction is taking it out on the teams involved?

From what I've seen on here, it looks like just a bunch of supporters making the harsh comments. Not St Mawgan or Foxhole?

[Mr Mo]

1 hour ago, St Darren said:

My post was trying to cause healthy debate as i firmly believe if refs played to the letter of the law on all dissent then it would eradicate it

what do you classify as dissent? (genuine question)

[St Darren]

41 minutes ago, Mr Mo said:

what do you classify as dissent? (genuine question)

Good question. Arguing with a referee, swearing at a referee

[Mr Mo]

35 minutes ago, St Darren said:

Good question. Arguing with a referee, swearing at a referee

How many times a game does that happen?

[St Darren]

54 minutes ago, Mr Mo said:

How many times a game does that happen?

So what you’re getting at I presume is that it happens loads, so we’re beck to interpretation!! I understand your point 

[John Mead]

Dissent is a sin bin offence, swearing is a red card. The former often gets punished, the latter, rarely. Foul OR abusive language is a red card offence at all times - not just when directed at a referee! 

[Mr Mo]

3 hours ago, John Mead said:

Dissent is a sin bin offence, swearing is a red card. The former often gets punished, the latter, rarely. Foul OR abusive language is a red card offence at all times - not just when directed at a referee! 

WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!!!

[John Mead]

1 hour ago, Mr Mo said:

WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!!!

Can't disagree with that but, in particular, bad language keeps people away from watching football - which is not good for the game.

[Portreathlegend]

When is the draw for Semi Finals?

[gashead1980]

18 hours ago, John Mead said:

Can't disagree with that but, in particular, bad language keeps people away from watching football - which is not good for the game.

Can't see many people not going, due to bad language. People hear bad language at every level, including when going to watch league football. Thousands still turn up, week in week out! It's not a new thing, it was like it in the 80s when I first starting watching. 

[bighairydave]

1 hour ago, Portreathlegend said:

When is the draw for Semi Finals?

Wednesday 27th February from 10.30am following Charity Cup draw live on Facebook.

 

 

[John Mead]

7 hours ago, gashead1980 said:

Can't see many people not going, due to bad language. People hear bad language at every level, including when going to watch league football. Thousands still turn up, week in week out! It's not a new thing, it was like it in the 80s when I first starting watching. 

There's certainly a gradual decline in the number of people watching football in Cornwall and bad language has a part to play in that. It's not somewhere that many people would take young children. I know it's a reflection upon today's society - but it's a poor reflection; there is no excuse for screaming obscenities at 90 decibels, it just shows a total lack of respect for everyone!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, John Mead said:

There's certainly a gradual decline in the number of people watching football in Cornwall and bad language has a part to play in that. It's not somewhere that many people would take young children. I know it's a reflection upon today's society - but it's a poor reflection; there is no excuse for screaming obscenities at 90 decibels, it just shows a total lack of respect for everyone!

Well said.

[Dave Bartlam]

3 hours ago, John Mead said:

There's certainly a gradual decline in the number of people watching football in Cornwall and bad language has a part to play in that. It's not somewhere that many people would take young children. I know it's a reflection upon today's society - but it's a poor reflection; there is no excuse for screaming obscenities at 90 decibels, it just shows a total lack of respect for everyone!

This hits the nail on the head. My daughter is 4 years old. She's only every watched me play in one game - a cup final two seasons ago. She's not allowed to come and watch me play/ref - even when there's a park adjacent to a game.

[Mr Mo]

15 hours ago, Dave Bartlam said:

She's not allowed to come and watch me play/ref - even when there's a park adjacent to a game.

you cant be that bad????

[Dave Bartlam]

15 minutes ago, Mr Mo said:

you cant be that bad????

Some may say otherwise 👀👀

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

2 hours ago, Dave Bartlam said:

Some may say otherwise 👀👀

[Asterix]

My 2 year old daughter just beat me at pool!

The table was though!!!!

[gashead1980]

On 20/02/2019 at 18:50, John Mead said:

There's certainly a gradual decline in the number of people watching football in Cornwall and bad language has a part to play in that. It's not somewhere that many people would take young children. I know it's a reflection upon today's society - but it's a poor reflection; there is no excuse for screaming obscenities at 90 decibels, it just shows a total lack of respect for everyone!

I'm not saying it's right, I don't agree with it myself. Don't think it's changed that much though! Like I said bad language was part of the game in the 80s, when I first started watching.

What has changed is most children would prefer to stay at home on the iPad, than go to watch a football match etc. 

Ideally we shouldn't have bad language at football. But I wouldn't let that stop me, from taking my children. As long as you explain that they can't repeat the language etc before you go. 

Not sure why people are making out it's a new thing in today's society. 

[Mr Mo]

2 hours ago, gashead1980 said:

I'm not saying it's right, I don't agree with it myself. Don't think it's changed that much though! Like I said bad language was part of the game in the 80s, when I first started watching.

What has changed is most children would prefer to stay at home on the iPad, than go to watch a football match etc. 

Ideally we shouldn't have bad language at football. But I wouldn't let that stop me, from taking my children. As long as you explain that they can't repeat the language etc before you go. 

Not sure why people are making out it's a new thing in today's society. 

🙌 could agree more.

i watched most weeks growing up.......and it never f&*$*ing affected me!!

[Dave Bartlam]

2 hours ago, gashead1980 said:

I'm not saying it's right, I don't agree with it myself. Don't think it's changed that much though! Like I said bad language was part of the game in the 80s, when I first started watching.

What has changed is most children would prefer to stay at home on the iPad, than go to watch a football match etc. 

Ideally we shouldn't have bad language at football. But I wouldn't let that stop me, from taking my children. As long as you explain that they can't repeat the language etc before you go. 

Not sure why people are making out it's a new thing in today's society. 

For me, it's just because she repeats pretty much everything she hears. When she grows up, bad language will become the norm. Whilst I can keep it from becoming a norm, I will. 

We try and teach our children to be respectful, kind, courteous etc  I feel that taking them to a game where it is naturally hostile contradicts the values in which I'm trying to instill within them.

Obviously it's my personal preference and I see both sides of the coin. However, I expect my children to grow up being respectful, kind and avoiding using foul language until they're old enough to have their mouth washed out with soap!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, Dave Bartlam said:

For me, it's just because she repeats pretty much everything she hears. When she grows up, bad language will become the norm. Whilst I can keep it from becoming a norm, I will. 

We try and teach our children to be respectful, kind, courteous etc  I feel that taking them to a game where it is naturally hostile contradicts the values in which I'm trying to instill within them.

Obviously it's my personal preference and I see both sides of the coin. However, I expect my children to grow up being respectful, kind and avoiding using foul language until they're old enough to have their mouth washed out with soap!

Old school discipline and manners...I like it...a lot.