Ludgvan withdraw from the League

[Steve Carpenter]

Following an emergency meeting of the Club Committee on Thursday 23rd January Ludgvan FC  informed the League that they are withdrawing from the League with immediate effect.  Whilst the League is disappointed to receive this news it fully understands the reasons behind the clubs decision and appreciates the efforts made to try and keep their first team viable.  We wish them well with their remaining team in the Trelawny League.

As a result of Ludgvan's withdrawal at the conclusion of the season no club shall be liable for relegation from the West Division in accordance with Rule 22f(iv).

The Kernow Stone Cup is unaffected.

Full-Time will be updated over the course of today and, where possible, revisions to the West Division fixture list made.

[Steve Carpenter]

26 minutes ago, RAPPO said:

Sad news, but not totally unexpected. Hope Ludgvan can regroup with just the one team and come back stronger in the future. Nice little set up at Fairfield with some lovely people over the years. Good luck to them. I know Steve will use his expertise later chalking off the points and goal scorers etc but I think this will be the top 8 in the revised table with the one game and 3 points chalked off. Perranporth and Mullion won’t be affected as they haven’t played Ludgvan this season yet.

1).      Penryn.         15.       38

2)        St.Ives.         15.       31

3).       Perranporth. 14.      31

4).       Mullion.        18.       31

5).        Illogan.          14.      28

6).        St.Day.           13       26

7).        Falmouth.      15.      26

8).        Hayle.             16.      25

apologies if it’s wrong by the way!!! 🤔😀👍

Slightly out Rappo but not much.

Ludgvans fixtures and results have now been removed from Full-Time which is now all up to date.  Only 4 fixture updates were possible, 2 in March and 2 in April, and these have now also been published.

[kevin richards]

Yet another fully established club falls by the wayside. Cornish football is in the biggest mess it’s every been in. We need to cut down the leagues & the number of clubs massively. Too many teams & not enough players, sponsors, committee members, supporters or general volunteers to keep the amount of teams running, sustainable. 
I know & appreciate what your answer will be Steve, we’ve had this conversation before, however, no one from the FA has ever been down to Cornwall to access & discuss the geographical location & issues we have here, basically, they don’t actually care. This is their toy & they will make the rules. What they are doing, is killing Cornish football. !!!!!!!

[mikeb]

Very sad, after all the hard work a lot of people have put in over the years

[Barry H]

Feel for the club, volunteers and the players who were committed.

Where does this leave the players they did have registered?  Are they now stuck with nowhere to play or can they now sign freely elsewhere?

 

[le boss]

16 minutes ago, kevin richards said:

Yet another fully established club falls by the wayside. Cornish football is in the biggest mess it’s every been in. We need to cut down the leagues & the number of clubs massively. Too many teams & not enough players, sponsors, committee members, supporters or general volunteers to keep the amount of teams running, sustainable. 
I know & appreciate what your answer will be Steve, we’ve had this conversation before, however, no one from the FA has ever been down to Cornwall to access & discuss the geographical location & issues we have here, basically, they don’t actually care. This is their toy & they will make the rules. What they are doing, is killing Cornish football. !!!!!!!

Some of the blame has to be laid at the door of the local leagues who accept new teams each season when there clearly isn't the number of players to go round. It's been happening for the last 6 or 7 years and I know the new teams are voted in by the member clubs but where will it all end?

[RAPPO]

Haha removed it when I saw you were on the case straight away Steve!!! I should know better mate! Great work Steve 👏🏼👌 Sad day though but an opportunity for an ambitious Combo club for next season possibly Steve? Be good to see both leagues back up to 16 for next season and congrats on this season so far, some great games in the East and West divisions, enjoyed covering it for the podcast. The league has proved a real success Steve with the Combo and East Cornwall still going strong and competitive. Good news all round I would say mate 👍⚽️  Agree with Kev though, too many teams falling by the wayside, Godolphin reserves and Ludgvan in the last week alone. Sad to see and not the last I fear in today’s modern world! 

[St Darren]

Another example of a club gaining promotion and not being able to sustain it. 
 

Feel sorry for the likes of John Matthews who has put everything into it down there

Loads talk about ambition of clubs. Where in reality it’s just crazy

[John Mead]

To repeat something I've highlighted before; to keep unemployment figures down, governments over recent times have massively increased the number of university places and a far greater number of Cornish youngsters now benefit from this. Not having a university in Cornwall - apart from Exeter out-posts - means a fair proportion of these youngsters leave Cornwall, never to return! This, added to changing work patterns and general social habits, has left a much smaller pool of available players in the County. I agree with Kevin in as much as there is really no point in creating new clubs if the net result of that sees the demise of an existing, estabished Club.

[Dave Deacon]

2 hours ago, GKBH said:

Where does this leave the players they did have registered?  Are they now stuck with nowhere to play or can they now sign freely elsewhere?

How many are we talking about here, because one of the main problems surely was they didn’t have many regular players prepared to commit each week?

[Steve Carpenter]

2 hours ago, kevin richards said:

Yet another fully established club falls by the wayside. Cornish football is in the biggest mess it’s every been in. We need to cut down the leagues & the number of clubs massively. Too many teams & not enough players, sponsors, committee members, supporters or general volunteers to keep the amount of teams running, sustainable. 
I know & appreciate what your answer will be Steve, we’ve had this conversation before, however, no one from the FA has ever been down to Cornwall to access & discuss the geographical location & issues we have here, basically, they don’t actually care. This is their toy & they will make the rules. What they are doing, is killing Cornish football. !!!!!!!

Many good points in there Kev, it's what can be done about them that's the issue.  Clubs and teams at all levels have been falling by the wayside regularly in recent years, look at how many have gone from the SWPL and Combo and Trelawny is about half the size it was when it started.  Volunteers, supporters and committee members are increasingly difficult to come by and there are many questions around why that should be.  With players it's probably more accurate to say not enough committed players.  We have approaching 1900 players registered in St Piran for example, that's over 60 per team!  The days when you could run a side on a squad of @18/19 are long gone.  And lets not forget that it's not just football that's suffering this or just football in Cornwall.  All team sports in this country and across Europe are suffering similar problems.  Whilst it would be true to say that the NLS management haven't been down for a while the National Game Manager (he looks after everything below the NLS) was down in November (I think) and he was left in no doubt about the issues football in the County faces.  The County FA are also well aware of the problems and no matter what people may think they do strongly represent those up to the FA.  The perennial problem with being part of the NLS will always be that those areas on the edges will find it more difficult.  We have some unique problems down here but many are very similar to those experienced by those regions on the other three corners of the map.

2 hours ago, GKBH said:

Where does this leave the players they did have registered?  Are they now stuck with nowhere to play or can they now sign freely elsewhere?

The players become free agents.

2 hours ago, le boss said:

Some of the blame has to be laid at the door of the local leagues who accept new teams each season when there clearly isn't the number of players to go round. It's been happening for the last 6 or 7 years and I know the new teams are voted in by the member clubs but where will it all end?

Difficult one this Bash.  The rules allow them to apply and the clubs, as you say to vote on whether to let them in or not.  If a club rep applying for membership stands up at an AGM and states very clearly that they have a ground, changing rooms and plenty of players on what grounds, that would stand up to an appeal, could entry be refused?  Would someone really stand up and say yes, we hear what you say and we do need to maintain our numbers and sustain the game but we don't believe you when you say you have enough players so we're going to run a team (or two) short?  Imagine what Trelawny would be like now if new clubs hadn't been allowed in.  Down to 3 divisions perhaps?

36 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

How many are we talking about here, because one of the main problems surely was they didn’t have many regular players prepared to commit each week?

There are currently 57 players registered to Ludgvan Dave but it's not unusual to find clubs that are struggling to have high numbers registered.

[le boss]

I appreciate it is difficult Steve but surely there is merit for a league to issue some sort of statement during a season stating that it will not be taking any new applications for the upcoming season(s) due to the reasons outlined as above. Yes you will get moans and groans but if people are really intent on creating a team, then surely there are existing clubs who are in dire straits who would accommodate them en bloc and save all the application fees if there are such things. Call it supply and demand if you like. With regards to 3 divisions left in the Trelawney league, would that be such a bad thing? Quality over quantity and maybe would solve the lack of referees. Yes you may lose a couple of cup competitions and a little revenue for the league but surely that is the more responsible thing rather than clubs failing to fulfil fixtures and ultimately folding completely. I don't see what the alternatives are Steve but something has to be done and soon. We have both been around long enough to know applicants promise the world but don't always deliver long term.

[Steve Carpenter]

1 hour ago, le boss said:

I appreciate it is difficult Steve but surely there is merit for a league to issue some sort of statement during a season stating that it will not be taking any new applications for the upcoming season(s) due to the reasons outlined as above. Yes you will get moans and groans but if people are really intent on creating a team, then surely there are existing clubs who are in dire straits who would accommodate them en bloc and save all the application fees if there are such things. Call it supply and demand if you like. With regards to 3 divisions left in the Trelawney league, would that be such a bad thing? Quality over quantity and maybe would solve the lack of referees. Yes you may lose a couple of cup competitions and a little revenue for the league but surely that is the more responsible thing rather than clubs failing to fulfil fixtures and ultimately folding completely. I don't see what the alternatives are Steve but something has to be done and soon. We have both been around long enough to know applicants promise the world but don't always deliver long term.

It is difficult and it's hitting at all levels and I don't think anyone has all of the answers or even some of them.  I agree with you that sustainability is the key and even that is getting decidedly tricky.  Whilst your idea about a league statement certainly has merit it's unfortunately contrary to what's in the mandatory rules at the moment which essentially means that if a club was refused the opportunity of applying and they appealed they would be pretty much nailed on to win the appeal.  I do wonder where the game will be in 10 years time and I fear it won't be anything like what we have now.

[le boss]

3 minutes ago, Steve Carpenter said:

It is difficult and it's hitting at all levels and I don't think anyone has all of the answers or even some of them.  I agree with you that sustainability is the key and even that is getting decidedly tricky.  Whilst your idea about a league statement certainly has merit it's unfortunately contrary to what's in the mandatory rules at the moment which essentially means that if a club was refused the opportunity of applying and they appealed they would be pretty much nailed on to win the appeal.  I do wonder where the game will be in 10 years time and I fear it won't be anything like what we have now.

I get the mandatory rules thing but surely there is a moral obligation and perhaps the league needs a hard look at themselves - common sense has got to prevail. It will a real travesty if in 10 years people are saying "wish we had done something all those years ago to save our league"  

[hedgerow]

It has been mentioned quite a few times the numbers of clubs that have folded in Cornwall. 
Nationally, over the last couple of seasons, just over 3000 clubs have folded through one reason or another. 
The respective County FA’s need to ask how can this be solved this problem. Adult participation has declined, whilst Walking, smallsided football has seen a massive increase. 

[John Mead]

3 hours ago, hedgerow said:

It has been mentioned quite a few times the numbers of clubs that have folded in Cornwall. 
Nationally, over the last couple of seasons, just over 3000 clubs have folded through one reason or another. 
The respective County FA’s need to ask how can this be solved this problem. Adult participation has declined, whilst Walking, smallsided football has seen a massive increase. 

It's all to do with life-style choices and changing work patterns. Many players are happy to get their fix of football without devoting most of each Saturday to it. 

[Dave Bartlam]

People tend to think that it's the youth that aren't signing up... The age group that is always hit is the 32-35. Youth registrations 16-18 is actually very high in the Trelawny League compared to the 32-35.

[kevin richards]

37 minutes ago, Dave Bartlam said:

People tend to think that it's the youth that aren't signing up... The age group that is always hit is the 32-35. Youth registrations 16-18 is actually very high in the Trelawny League compared to the 32-35.

It may well be very high Dave, however, youngsters these days have the retention spans of goldfish & if someone says something they don’t like or get upset by, they then go somewhere else or say they don’t want to play with a load of ruffians. 
The youth football set up is all well & good but it just means someone else is doing all the running around for them. Young kids wearing club tracksuits, when did I miss that. !! 
Everything is put on a plate for them & then when they are asked to help run a club, they are not interested. Get these kids to respect the club they are playing for, make them stay with that club  until they old enough to play men’s football & then stick with that club through thick & thin. The only problem being, their parents are just as fickle & would also walk, taking little Jonny with them, slagging off the club & the people running it as they drive out the gate.

Does anyone reading this think that these kids will be playing for the club they are at now in 15/20 years time. ?

No, me neither.

Therein lies the problem. ......

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

11 minutes ago, kevin richards said:

It may well be very high Dave, however, youngsters these days have the retention spans of goldfish & if someone says something they don’t like or get upset by, they then go somewhere else or say they don’t want to play with a load of ruffians. 
The youth football set up is all well & good but it just means someone else is doing all the running around for them. Young kids wearing club tracksuits, when did I miss that. !! 
Everything is put on a plate for them & then when they are asked to help run a club, they are not interested. Get these kids to respect the club they are playing for, make them stay with that club  until they old enough to play men’s football & then stick with that club through thick & thin. The only problem being, their parents are just as fickle & would also walk, taking little Jonny with them, slagging off the club & the people running it as they drive out the gate.

Does anyone reading this think that these kids will be playing for the club they are at now in 15/20 years time. ?

No, me neither.

Therein lies the problem. ......

Well said.

[CRD]

1 hour ago, kevin richards said:

It may well be very high Dave, however, youngsters these days have the retention spans of goldfish & if someone says something they don’t like or get upset by, they then go somewhere else or say they don’t want to play with a load of ruffians. 
The youth football set up is all well & good but it just means someone else is doing all the running around for them. Young kids wearing club tracksuits, when did I miss that. !! 
Everything is put on a plate for them & then when they are asked to help run a club, they are not interested. Get these kids to respect the club they are playing for, make them stay with that club  until they old enough to play men’s football & then stick with that club through thick & thin. The only problem being, their parents are just as fickle & would also walk, taking little Jonny with them, slagging off the club & the people running it as they drive out the gate.

Does anyone reading this think that these kids will be playing for the club they are at now in 15/20 years time. ?

No, me neither.

Therein lies the problem. ......

As a coach whose youth players are nearing men’s football, it does dismay me to see these old attitudes blaming young players reeled out yet again. The irony of these opinions coming from blokes linked to clubs with no youth section should not be ignored! Happy to attract young players from other clubs, but should they leave before 15-20 yrs service they’re disloyal! I doubt I’ll be recommending either of your clubs as a starting point for any of the young players I’ve helped.

Please can we remember that even in the latter years of youth football, the FA are encouraging minimum game time expectations of 1/2 a game and coaches should be aiming towards equal game time for all players? Some youth sections enforce these standards, some don’t. Whilst this is theoretically great for developing all of our young players, accounting for issues such as late maturation and hopefully keeping participation numbers up in youth football, unless there is a culture change in adult football to at least echo this then some young adults will simply not be prepared for what they experience. Please be patient with our young players, they are the future of the game and need to be developed as players and people.....

Rant over.

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Where are all these footballers.

Most dont bother much after 10 years of organised football and go off to all the other things available today.

Equal game time...really!

Put a young un on the bench and he's off somewhere else like a lot of older players as well.

You keep producing them and some of the 20% maybe will one day turn up at a football club somewhere.

[CRD]

34 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Where are all these footballers.

Most dont bother much after 10 years of organised football and go off to all the other things available today.

Equal game time...really!

Put a young un on the bench and he's off somewhere else like a lot of older players as well.

You keep producing them and some of the 20% maybe will one day turn up at a football club somewhere.

Well with 5 of our players being Penryn college students I think there was a chance of them at least considering Penryn Athletic, probably for the best if they don’t. Just another club with no ability to reflect and adapt their ways to the changing landscape. You might as well go outside and yell at the clouds tbh, change is inevitable.
 

IMO if we don’t consider youth and adult football as 2 parts of the same development process we’ll always encounter these issues. We’ll see how many of the players I’ve coached make it through to adult football, but your assumption that you’ll be proved right if they don’t shows the lack of introspection rife in “senior’ men’s football. Always someone else’s fault....
 

 

[le boss]

17 minutes ago, CRD said:

Well with 5 of our players being Penryn college students I think there was a chance of them at least considering Penryn Athletic, probably for the best if they don’t. Just another club with no ability to reflect and adapt their ways to the changing landscape. You might as well go outside and yell at the clouds tbh, change is inevitable.
 

IMO if we don’t consider youth and adult football as 2 parts of the same development process we’ll always encounter these issues. We’ll see how many of the players I’ve coached make it through to adult football, but your assumption that you’ll be proved right if they don’t shows the lack of introspection rife in “senior’ men’s football. Always someone else’s fault....
 

 

As a youth coach, does your coaching encompass all the mental challenges that these youth players are likely to face, the ones you have so eloquently alluded to above? I understand your frustration at us old codgers but what has been said about the attitudes of youth who start to play senior football is evident at nearly every club so something must be wrong maybe. The point about coaches and parents stepping up as the youth get older is again very prevalent and how often do you see a coach rise up thru the age groups just because their son, or daughter, is in the same group - can't be healthy for either side? Too often youth set ups are run separately from adult set ups and lots of coaches think that just because they wear a track suit and have sat in on a couple of low level courses they know what's best - they change from parent to coach in a blink of an eye - sometimes without ever having kicked a ball in anger. But hey - always someone else's fault

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

55 minutes ago, CRD said:

Well with 5 of our players being Penryn college students I think there was a chance of them at least considering Penryn Athletic, probably for the best if they don’t. Just another club with no ability to reflect and adapt their ways to the changing landscape. You might as well go outside and yell at the clouds tbh, change is inevitable.
 

IMO if we don’t consider youth and adult football as 2 parts of the same development process we’ll always encounter these issues. We’ll see how many of the players I’ve coached make it through to adult football, but your assumption that you’ll be proved right if they don’t shows the lack of introspection rife in “senior’ men’s football. Always someone else’s fault....
 

 

You've certainly swallowed the book!

When they come into the real football realm they tend to struggle with the harsh reality of it.

[kevin richards]

15 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

You've certainly swallowed the book!

When they come into the real football realm they tend to struggle with the harsh reality of it.

The majority of youth coaches have swallowed the book. Le Boss is correct, most of these youth ‘coaches’ are only there because their child is there. Once that child decides he’d much rather play on his play station in his nice warm bedroom or gets shouted at by someone else or moves up to the next age group, the ‘ coach ‘ goes with him.

Full credit to those of you that want to do it, but the majority of the time, your just a crèche whilst mum & dad do some shopping, wash the car or go for a coffee in Costa. !

[CRD]

3 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

You've certainly swallowed the book!

When they come into the real football realm they tend to struggle with the harsh reality of it.

I just don’t see how Ludgvan and all their problems are somehow specifically down to youth footballers, just another chance to complain about young people these days and other such nostalgic nonsense.

And in relation to “real football” I hope some of the youth players I’ve coached will have the ability and desire to play at a higher level than the quality of the St Piran games I’ve watched this season. Time will tell I guess, but I imagine you‘ll be happy to make another prediction regarding that...

4 hours ago, le boss said:

As a youth coach, does your coaching encompass all the mental challenges that these youth players are likely to face, the ones you have so eloquently alluded to above? I understand your frustration at us old codgers but what has been said about the attitudes of youth who start to play senior football is evident at nearly every club so something must be wrong maybe. The point about coaches and parents stepping up as the youth get older is again very prevalent and how often do you see a coach rise up thru the age groups just because their son, or daughter, is in the same group - can't be healthy for either side? Too often youth set ups are run separately from adult set ups and lots of coaches think that just because they wear a track suit and have sat in on a couple of low level courses they know what's best - they change from parent to coach in a blink of an eye - sometimes without ever having kicked a ball in anger. But hey - always someone else's fault

There are plenty of coaches that are well meaning parents with a couple of courses, fair play to them as long a they don’t think they know it all......they deserve praise IMO. There are a multitude of ex-players who know football but don’t know how to coach, that’s ok too as long as they don’t assume they know it all.....plus the more of these guys that get involved in kid’s football the better IMO, as long as they are there to help young people learn and not to just show everyone how much they know.

 

I would imagine you’ve already made your mind up which category you think I fit into!

[CRD]

3 hours ago, kevin richards said:

The majority of youth coaches have swallowed the book. Le Boss is correct, most of these youth ‘coaches’ are only there because their child is there. Once that child decides he’d much rather play on his play station in his nice warm bedroom or gets shouted at by someone else or moves up to the next age group, the ‘ coach ‘ goes with him.

Full credit to those of you that want to do it, but the majority of the time, your just a crèche whilst mum & dad do some shopping, wash the car or go for a coffee in Costa. !

Some of my players I’ve been childcare for without doubt along the years, but that’s been the distinct minority tbh. 
 

Funny that despite young players being such a waste of time, my lads played a friendly earlier this season where  both the Porthleven and Helston 1st team managers were in attendance, obviously nothing better to do with their time on a Sunday afternoon! 

[le boss]

I admire your self promotion but no, I had not decided which category you were in. I think the Ludgvan problem stems from the lack of players which stems from a lack of youth players staying in football. Football has never been an exact science and all the theory and coaching will not prepare a player to cope in a game but it will definitely help. Think this post highlights the lack of interaction between the two factions??

[Martin Eddy]

Am I right in thinking that Ludgvan still have a youth set up 

[CRD]

11 minutes ago, Postman Pat said:

Am I right in thinking that Ludgvan still have a youth set up 

I think there’s only a few youth teams left and I’m not sure there’s a link between youth and men’s clubs.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

2 hours ago, CRD said:

I just don’t see how Ludgvan and all their problems are somehow specifically down to youth footballers, just another chance to complain about young people these days and other such nostalgic nonsense.

And in relation to “real football” I hope some of the youth players I’ve coached will have the ability and desire to play at a higher level than the quality of the St Piran games I’ve watched this season. Time will tell I guess, but I imagine you‘ll be happy to make another prediction regarding that...

There are plenty of coaches that are well meaning parents with a couple of courses, fair play to them as long a they don’t think they know it all......they deserve praise IMO. There are a multitude of ex-players who know football but don’t know how to coach, that’s ok too as long as they don’t assume they know it all.....plus the more of these guys that get involved in kid’s football the better IMO, as long as they are there to help young people learn and not to just show everyone how much they know.

 

I would imagine you’ve already made your mind up which category you think I fit into!

Who mentioned Ludgvan(?)

Your second comment sums up the problem with youth football.

They come into the men's game believing they are better than they are, won't play at a level they are suited to and won't sit on the bench to learn the "real" game.

Where are your players to in relation to men's teams (?)

And I have no axe to grind with youngsters at all, just some of the nonsense that has been put in to them.

[CRD]

1 hour ago, le boss said:

I admire your self promotion but no, I had not decided which category you were in. I think the Ludgvan problem stems from the lack of players which stems from a lack of youth players staying in football. Football has never been an exact science and all the theory and coaching will not prepare a player to cope in a game but it will definitely help. Think this post highlights the lack of interaction between the two factions??

I’m not sure how I’ve promoted myself here, certainly wasn’t my intention anyway. I’m just not a fan of sweeping generalisations about our young players, who in my opinion should be encouraged NOT disparaged.

3 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Who mentioned Ludgvan(?)

Your second comment sums up the problem with youth football.

They come into the men's game believing they are better than they are, won't play at a level they are suited to and won't sit on the bench to learn the "real" game.

Where are your players to in relation to men's teams (?)

And I have no axe to grind with youngsters at all, just some of the nonsense that has been put in to them.

Why shouldn’t talented players aspire to play at a higher level than the St Piran’s league? I didn’t say begin adult football higher. 

7 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Who mentioned Ludgvan(?)

Your second comment sums up the problem with youth football.

They come into the men's game believing they are better than they are, won't play at a level they are suited to and won't sit on the bench to learn the "real" game.

Where are your players to in relation to men's teams (?)

And I have no axe to grind with youngsters at all, just some of the nonsense that has been put in to them.

Who mentioned ludgvan, look at the title of the thread/post

[St Darren]

 

It’s totally wrong when people say that the youth section are the future of the club, they’re the future of the game but not the club

[kevin richards]

2 minutes ago, St Darren said:

 

It’s totally wrong when people say that the youth section are the future of the club, they’re the future of the game but not the club

Your right Darren, hence why the game in Cornwall is going down the pan. !!!

[CRD]

1 minute ago, kevin richards said:

Your right Darren, hence why the game in Cornwall is going down the pan. !!!

So if we follow that logic, should all clubs have youth sections? 

[kevin richards]

6 minutes ago, CRD said:

So if we follow that logic, should all clubs have youth sections? 

As I said, your only providing a crèche. When these kids reach 15/16, they will make up their own minds & I can assure you, I have seen so many walk away from it because their parents made them go all those years. !!!!

[St Darren]

14 minutes ago, CRD said:

So if we follow that logic, should all clubs have youth sections? 

The youth sections enable grants for clubs. Roll the clocks back 30 years (when I was a lad) there wasn’t much youth football. Now there’s more youth football then adult football. 
 

It’s great for the community but the likelihood of anymore than 2% of a youth section remaining at a club through their adult career is extremely low

its not just football. Same as at a golf club as well

[claret&blue]

Having previously coached a youth section of a club that has no direct connection to any adult team in the county, it has been good to see that 11 from last years under 16 squad have all moved on to play adult football this season, but in the case of the other 5/6 I think it was possibly a case of two much organised football at a young age and the hunger/ interest disappeared. As for how many of those youngsters will be at the same club in 15-20 years time, how many players in there 30’s now are still at there first club?

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

53 minutes ago, CRD said:

I’m not sure how I’ve promoted myself here, certainly wasn’t my intention anyway. I’m just not a fan of sweeping generalisations about our young players, who in my opinion should be encouraged NOT disparaged.

Why shouldn’t talented players aspire to play at a higher level than the St Piran’s league? I didn’t say begin adult football higher. 

Who mentioned ludgvan, look at the title of the thread/post

In these posts - no-one.

The problem is they've all been told they are better than they are in the vast majority of cases.

Equal game time, presentation evenings where everybody gets a medal and so on teaches them nothing about reality.

Jumpers for goalposts, no league structure, get rid of the cones for the toddlers and so on would be good in my opinion....just a series of friendlies.

Would the dads be there then I wonder with nothing to win?

Let the kids grow up and let them enjoy it before it becomes serious.

Get them to want to play real football when they're old enough.

[WendronOfficial]

This whole thing is ridiculous. 
 

It is a complete accumulation of things that contribute to the lack of players and teams folding. 
Firstly, we act like the fact teams fold is something completely new. It has happened since the introduction of football and is because of things such as finances, lack of infrastructure, poor management at various tiers, lack of youth, managers promising 16 year olds the world, money or incentives being thrown at teenagers even in Cornwall (I wonder what will happen to those youth players at Helston who have been promised or given incentives when they just don’t quite cut it and have to look for a new club - are they going to expect the same elsewhere? Not a knock at Helston as fully respect what they’re trying to achieve) etc etc. To pin point youth isn’t fair or correct. 
Without parents we would have no youth football or avenues into men’s football. 
I completely disagree with St Darren’s comments regarding the youth not being the future of a club, without our youth section we would have no club. 
CRD, you’ve given a prime example of the youth having over inflated egos - you commented that your players are/will be better than St Piran standard (or words to that affect). Let’s remember that this is now effectively the second highest tier in Cornwall. Furthermore, the team you are associated with have a team at that standard, so it’s hardly promoting progression from within the club. 
 

Anyway, to conclude my rant and 2p’s worth - I think you’re all right in what you’re saying...but all completely wrong too. 
 

And just for the record, Wendron’s reserve team fielded a team consisting of 9 former Wendron youth players in the starting 11 today, 11 in the squad of 15 plus a former youth player as manager, and a former youth manager as assistant manager. 
 

It is such a shame Ludgvan have struggled over the past couple of years and it has accumulated in this. In my opinion, it’s the fact that they gathered a squad reliant on 3-4 top players, and when they went elsewhere it left them in a mess. I wish them all the best. 

[CRD]

17 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

In these posts - no-one.

The problem is they've all been told they are better than they are in the vast majority of cases.

Equal game time, presentation evenings where everybody gets a medal and so on teaches them nothing about reality.

Jumpers for goalposts, no league structure, get rid of the cones for the toddlers and so on would be good in my opinion....just a series of friendlies.

Would the dads be there then I wonder with nothing to win?

Let the kids grow up and let them enjoy it before it becomes serious.

Get them to want to play real football when they're old enough.

Told they are better than they are? Another generalisation. Praise EFFORT over outcome, modern youth coaches go out of their way to create growth mindsets. In my experience it’s adult teams that promise young players the world then sit them on the bench for months at a time stunting their development.

Equal game time and trophies for all I agree are an absolute nonsense, BUT the kids haven’t enforced these ideas themselves! If young players have been affected by these daft concepts then we need to be patient with them.

Jumpers for goalposts, let the game be the teacher, those days are gone I’m afraid so we need to move fwd not back. 

We already have non-competitive football up to u11

3 minutes ago, WendronOfficial said:

This whole thing is ridiculous. 
 

It is a complete accumulation of things that contribute to the lack of players and teams folding. 
Firstly, we act like the fact teams fold is something completely new. It has happened since the introduction of football and is because of things such as finances, lack of infrastructure, poor management at various tiers, lack of youth, managers promising 16 year olds the world, money or incentives being thrown at teenagers even in Cornwall (I wonder what will happen to those youth players at Helston who have been promised or given incentives when they just don’t quite cut it and have to look for a new club - are they going to expect the same elsewhere? Not a knock at Helston as fully respect what they’re trying to achieve) etc etc. To pin point youth isn’t fair or correct. 
Without parents we would have no youth football or avenues into men’s football. 
I completely disagree with St Darren’s comments regarding the youth not being the future of a club, without our youth section we would have no club. 
CRD, you’ve given a prime example of the youth having over inflated egos - you commented that your players are/will be better than St Piran standard (or words to that affect). Let’s remember that this is now effectively the second highest tier in Cornwall. Furthermore, the team you are associated with have a team at that standard, so it’s hardly promoting progression from within the club. 
 

Anyway, to conclude my rant and 2p’s worth - I think you’re all right in what you’re saying...but all completely wrong too. 
 

And just for the record, Wendron’s reserve team fielded a team consisting of 9 former Wendron youth players in the starting 11 today, 11 in the squad of 15 plus a former youth player as manager, and a former youth manager as assistant manager. 
 

It is such a shame Ludgvan have struggled over the past couple of years and it has accumulated in this. In my opinion, it’s the fact that they gathered a squad reliant on 3-4 top players, and when they went elsewhere it left them in a mess. I wish them all the best. 

Ok, I’ll point it out AGAIN, I said I have players who should aspire to playing above St Piran. Why shouldn’t players want to play as high as level as possible at some point in their “career” Wendron official?

[WendronOfficial]

21 minutes ago, CRD said:

 

Ok, I’ll point it out AGAIN, I said I have players who should aspire to playing above St Piran. Why shouldn’t players want to play as high as level as possible at some point in their “career” Wendron official?

Agreed, every youth player (and I believe every men’s player) should aim to play as high as possible at some point in their career, however how it was phrased - or read by myself perhaps - implied this was a message been sent out to players whereas the progression to men’s football and continuous progression is one that should be encouraged. Apologies if read wrong. 

[CRD]

4 minutes ago, WendronOfficial said:

Agreed, every youth player (and I believe every men’s player) should aim to play as high as possible at some point in their career, however how it was phrased - or read by myself perhaps - implied this was a message been sent out to players whereas the progression to men’s football and continuous progression is one that should be encouraged. Apologies if read wrong. 

No worries Josh, hope you’re well mate. I only came in here to stick up for young players, it shouldn’t be controversial to suggest we adapt for their benefit, should it?

[St Darren]

Fair do’s if you’ve got that number at Wendron.  But I’d say you’re a unique club by having 3 or 4 sustainable men’s teams. 

[Martin Eddy]

3 hours ago, CRD said:

I think there’s only a few youth teams left and I’m not sure there’s a link between youth and men’s clubs.

Then why are they called Ludgvan?

[jobysdad]

1 hour ago, Postman Pat said:

Then why are they called Ludgvan?

Because their home ground is in Ludgvan ( and has been for 10+ years), and a fair percentage of their players come from Ludgvan (and surrounding areas, like a lot of other clubs). There’s a long, and frankly boring story about why the Lions aren’t linked to the adult club, but meanwhile thanks to parents who became coaches the 6 junior teams continue to give kids the opportunity to just play football. Whether they end up playing for Ludgvan, Penzance or Mousehole/Marazion Allstars isn’t really the point.
As for the whole organised youth football debate, well what choice do the kids have these days?  Having grown up playing footy on a council estate that’s now covered in ‘No ball games’ signs, is there any wonder they don’t play jumpers for goalposts anymore??

[Clubman]

43 minutes ago, jobysdad said:

Because their home ground is in Ludgvan ( and has been for 10+ years), and a fair percentage of their players come from Ludgvan (and surrounding areas, like a lot of other clubs). There’s a long, and frankly boring story about why the Lions aren’t linked to the adult club, but meanwhile thanks to parents who became coaches the 6 junior teams continue to give kids the opportunity to just play football. Whether they end up playing for Ludgvan, Penzance or Mousehole/Marazion Allstars isn’t really the point.
As for the whole organised youth football debate, well what choice do the kids have these days?  Having grown up playing footy on a council estate that’s now covered in ‘No ball games’ signs, is there any wonder they don’t play jumpers for goalposts anymore??

Playing up to 20 per side on Marazion Folly Field  as a kid nearly every day  and the game wasn't finished until it got too dark.  You don't see  youngsters  doing that these days, straight home from school or college  and on to their PS4.  Remember  being told to hit a ball against a wall and use both feet to keep the momentum going.  Too much tactical coaching these days, bring back getting youngsters to enjoy playing.  Rant over. 

[truthbetold]

Heard in the local that hayle combo manager will be taking his team there next year? 

[#sausagefingers]

Happening a lot lately. Ludgvan will have a strong trelawny  team now it's worked for st just and west cornwall.... people like winning games.. I'd  imagine a handful of teams in st piran league bung players a few quid so teams like that always be at top end... gonna have to be another reshuffle next season  with teams pulling out of st piran and combo already.. this season! 

[Dave Bartlam]

It has a knock on effect. Carharrack folding from Combination will see only one come down to Trelawny. Threemilestone and Holmans want to go up so we are one short there. St Keverne folded earlier this season so only one team will go down from Premiership Division... So there's a shortage in Prem... The championship teams then have to fill that void, some being pushed into Premiership from 4th/5th and playing above their current standard... That then means that teams in division one have to fill that gap and that then means division two teams then push up.

At the moment, I only know of two-three teams who have voiced an interest in joining the Trelawny League next season - Carharrack, Dropship FC (potentially two teams as two separate club - Dropship and Madron). St Keverne have joined the Flexi League which they will enjoy (hopefully) which may mean they also decide to put a team in. So, it's not all doom and gloom so long as these new teams don't pillage and plunder from existing teams