Can any referee answer the following question

[ECPL]

Can any referee answer the following question.

 

A Wolves player receives the ball directly from a corner. He passes to a team mate whose cross is headed into the net.

The goal was allowed but then over ruled by VAR who showed that the Wolves players foot was in advance of a defender.

But the FA laws state: No offence. There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from a corner kick.

So why did it go to VAR and why did VAR not make the correct decision if the VAR followed FA law. Not offside if ball is received directly from the corner kick.

 

What am I missing

[Clubman]

59 minutes ago, ECPL said:

Can any referee answer the following question.

 

A Wolves player receives the ball directly from a corner. He passes to a team mate whose cross is headed into the net.

The goal was allowed but then over ruled by VAR who showed that the Wolves players foot was in advance of a defender.

But the FA laws state: No offence. There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from a corner kick.

So why did it go to VAR and why did VAR not make the correct decision if the VAR followed FA law. Not offside if ball is received directly from the corner kick.

 

What am I missing

You answer your own question, the person who scored the header did not receivethe ball directly from the corner but from a second phase of play. Offside under the current interpretation of the law was the correct  decision. 

[ECPL]

Nope still don't get it.  Not interested in the player scoring the goal.   The ball was played BACK to player direct from a corner so how can he be offside.  The player has to be in front of the ball to be offside. In this case he would have had to be OFF the pitch.  The corner taken was the first phase so surely whatever happens after that is irrelevant.       

[Bobjfh]

ECLP - I don’t think anyone can answer your question without seeing the tv clip. You mention 4 Wolves players - the one taking the corner and the one he passes it to cannot be offside. You say the third player crosses it backwards so the goal scorer cannot be offside (unless he gained a clear advantage from being offside ie returning from an offside position between the second player receiving the ball and the third player crossing it) however the player crossing it (3rd player) can be. One can only conclude it was the 3rd player who was offside as he is in the second phase from the corner kick - however I did not see the incident and you will no doubt say it wasn’t him offside - as you know the offside law and this was clearly a VAR ‘**** up’. 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

VAR giving a penalty to Spurs and winning 3-2 ...I love VAR.

COYS...LOL

And if that was offside I'm called Mary...utter rubbish, a goal in the spirit of the game all year long.

Definite penalty though...lol lol lol!

[bighairydave]

The taker passed the ball short and when receiving it back was in an offside position (near to the goal line than the ball and the second last defender) JUST! So the direction of the ball doesn’t matter, just the position of the player when ball is played. It wasn’t from the corner it was the pass back to the taker before the cross. 

 

 

By the way I’m a Wolves fan! And believe that this drawing line rubbish is killing the game for everyone.

[Bruegel the Elder]

50 minutes ago, Jacob Englefield said:

I wouldn't say get rid of it Keith. The fact is, with the amount of money in the game and what's at stake, we need VAR because it's becoming harder for officials to make the correct decisions on a consistent basis. On a similar note, I feel sorry for the officials in the Premier League. Some of them don't even agree with how VAR is being used. They are the ones on the front line having to deal with these issues and the wrath of players and fans alike. The ones that need blaming are a combination of the Premier League and the PGMOL. They are being arrogant and ignoring how it works in other countries. Instead, trying to put their own spin on it. Fact is, that's what isn't working. Before too long we won't have or need a referee. They are the ones supposed to be in charge of a game and making the decisions. That is slowly being taken away from them.

Quite agree, see my post on the VAR thread of the Non Cornish Football sub-forum. Which is, of course where this thread should be!

[fenman]

Being a Wolves fan I'm also a bit bewildered by the decision although I wouldn't say that it cost Wolves the game because one can't say what would have happened later in the game . However , even the referee was unsure who was offside and I felt a bit sorry for him being in that position , its bad enough for the 3 officials  as it is if they make a mistake but to have someone 200 miles away make a strange decision having seen repeated showings of the incident followed by a lesson in trigonometry make your decision for you must be galling . Another thing regarding this particular goal ,  did the players heel being an inch offside when he was back to the goal and out near the touchline , have any influence in the goal being scored ?

As I've said on many occasions it's easy to be critical of organisations and their rule making , but sometimes the ideas dreamed up by football rule makers and the interpretation of them  baffle me . The new handball  rule is a prime example , an accidental handball by a defending player in the their  penalty area is not a penalty  , BUT ,  an accidental handball that eventually leads to a goal in the attacking end is not allowed . Co-incidently Wolves have also suffered from  this bizarre rule early this season  ( no I'm not into conspiracy theories ) .  

One of the sad things about most of the VAR  incidents is the amount of warped individuals  who post on the BBC   football forum saying that this is all a plot to let Liverpool win the league . Don't ask me why they say this BUT !!!!!!!!!

Bright sunny , windy day here Older so I've no excuse to be on the forum , looking forward to 2 Plymouth home games in a fortnights time though . 

[St Darren]

Have no sympathy for the referees. Apart from Oliver they’re all awful

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

4 hours ago, fenman said:

Bright sunny , windy day here Older so I've no excuse to be on the forum , looking forward to 2 Plymouth home games in a fortnights time though . 

Miserable overcast, 4 heavy showers so far ...and no chance of working on the pitch again today! 

I'm going to change to a groundsman for a water polo team.

[Bruegel the Elder]

1 hour ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Miserable overcast, 4 heavy showers so far ...and no chance of working on the pitch again today! 

I'm going to change to a groundsman for a water polo team.

Dear Mr. Older, I wish to apply for the position of lifeguard at your club. I can assure you that I can swim like a giraffe and have extensive experience in first aid (or possibly lemonade, I forget now). I have my own rubber ring for rescues⭕️, and can start immediately, if not before. Lots of love - B.T.E.

[St Darren]

1 hour ago, Keith B said:

Agree only to a point Darren. However I think the standard of our local referees is generally very good. So I wouldn't say all refs are awful - presumably you were talking about professional refs ?

 

Generally I mean the vast majority of refs but the professional ones in particular!

my biggest gripe is refereeing context! Why? If a foul happens in the 1st minute is worthy of a yellow card then give a yellow card rather then use time as an excuse. 
 

there are some decent local refs but there’s also a lot of poor ones out there as well

[fenman]

I've just read on the Wolves website that VAR is to be used in their Europa cup game on  Thursday . The Europa Cup official . said that he was pleased to see it introduced but it would only be used to clarify clear and obvious errors and encourages referees to use the monitor if they are unsure . In the wolves , Leicester game would the referee have allowed the goal without interference from VAR operators ? He seemed to me that he was happy that it was a goal until they intervened  . I think most peoples view is that the referees should be the arbitrators   and use the screen if they are unsure . In most of the controversial incidents ie. Villa , Tottenham  the referee has made his decision only to be overruled by some who has gone through the action with a fine tooth comb for a reason to overrule him .Football like all sports is all about skills and errors  not robotics .

[St Darren]

9 minutes ago, fenman said:

I've just read on the Wolves website that VAR is to be used in their Europa cup game on  Thursday . The Europa Cup official . said that he was pleased to see it introduced but it would only be used to clarify clear and obvious errors and encourages referees to use the monitor if they are unsure . In the wolves , Leicester game would the referee have allowed the goal without interference from VAR operators ? He seemed to me that he was happy that it was a goal until they intervened  . I think most peoples view is that the referees should be the arbitrators   and use the screen if they are unsure . In most of the controversial incidents ie. Villa , Tottenham  the referee has made his decision only to be overruled by some who has gone through the action with a fine tooth comb for a reason to overrule him .Football like all sports is all about skills and errors  not robotics .

If you’re offside you’re offside. 
 Looking at a pitch side monitor won’t change anything as it’s not an opinion 

[ECPL]

Nobody has answered the question.

 

Wolves had a corner the ball was PASSED BACK to a team mate who according to the VAR his foot was in front of the defender and was adjudge to be offside . What happened after that is irrelevant. 

  My question is NOBODY CAN BE OFFSIDE IF THE BALL IS PASSED BACK FROM A CORNER. 

Simple question - YES OR NO.   

I repeat again the LAW STATES 

No offence

There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from:

• a goal kick
• a throw-in
• a corner kick

 

It does not matter if the recipient is in front of a defender.  According to the law The recipient IS NOT OFFISDE

 

What am I missing  

 

[baldy]

As I viewed it, Player A took the corner and passed it to Player B. Player B then played it back to player A who was offside. Seen it happen many times. Player A is not immune from being offside as far as I know. Player B IS immune from the corner kick but he immunity ends there?

[bighairydave]

3 hours ago, ECPL said:

Nobody has answered the question.

 

Wolves had a corner the ball was PASSED BACK to a team mate who according to the VAR his foot was in front of the defender and was adjudge to be offside . What happened after that is irrelevant. 

  My question is NOBODY CAN BE OFFSIDE IF THE BALL IS PASSED BACK FROM A CORNER. 

Simple question - YES OR NO.   

I repeat again the LAW STATES 

No offence

There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from:

• a goal kick
• a throw-in
• a corner kick

 

It does not matter if the recipient is in front of a defender.  According to the law The recipient IS NOT OFFISDE

 

What am I missing  

 

It has been answered. It was from the pass not the corner that the offside was penalised. So what happened after is relevant as that’s the part that was penalised. 

[John Solomon]

Plus I think that you might have fallen for the common misconception that the ball has to be played forwards for the receiver to be offside - the direction that the ball is played in is irrelevant, it is where the receiver is at the moment the ball is played that is the important thing.

Having said all that, I still think that it is nonsense to give a player offside because his toenail is off, but unfortunately that is the law at the moment.

[Jeremy Wade]

On 17/02/2020 at 15:23, Jacob Englefield said:

The standard of refereeing is probably at an all time low. However, for me they are being made to look worse with the way this VAR stuff is being implemented.

What evidence have you got that the standard is at an all time low? or is this just opinion?

JW

[Jeremy Wade]

13 minutes ago, Jacob Englefield said:

Purely my own personal opinion. Based on the countless of games I've watched on TV and the hundreds I've watched live in stadiums up and down the country.

is this isolated purely towards VAR or on the referees at all levels up and down the country?

JW

[ECPL]

djs

I repeat,  It clearly states you cannot be offside from a corner.  Where the recipient of the pass is totally irrelevant.   The law is the law.  So why are people coming up with reasons.  Look at the FA LAWS and tell me where it says where the recipient is.  What bit of the law people do not understand.  It clearly sates YOU CANOT BE OFF SIDE FROM A CORNER. It cannot be clearer than that.    

 

[Robin Tucker]

38 minutes ago, ECPL said:

djs

I repeat,  It clearly states you cannot be offside from a corner.  Where the recipient of the pass is totally irrelevant.   The law is the law.  So why are people coming up with reasons.  Look at the FA LAWS and tell me where it says where the recipient is.  What bit of the law people do not understand.  It clearly sates YOU CANOT BE OFF SIDE FROM A CORNER. It cannot be clearer than that.    

 

Sorry I dont know the wolves players so shall refer to them by

A - the corner taker

B - recipient of corner

C- goal scorer

 

phase 1- Player A takes the corner, playing it to player B 

phase 2 - player B plays the ball backwards, and player A retrieves ball, having come back from the goal-line

phase 3 - player A swings ball into box and player C heads it into the net.

 

Phase 1 - no offside as you cannot be offside from a corner

phase 3 - no offside as player C is in an onside position from the cross

 

however - PHASE 2 - is OFFSIDE, as player B was just in an offside position when the ball was played ( part of his foot was closer to the goal-line than BOTH the 2nd last defender AND the ball.  He ran back and took possession of the BALL therefore PLAYER A was offside - good call by VAR

 

*******before being questioned on it, yes you are offside if the ball is played backwards and the player runs back to get the ball.  It no longer matters which direction the ball travels, the ball does NOT have to travel forwards.  Dont forget offside free-kicks can now be given in your own half if the player runs back to retrieve the ball

 

Hope this answers your question ECPL

 

 

[ECPL]

Player B was not in an offside position when receiving the ball.  The VAR showed player B whose foot was just in front.  Player A was not the player given offside  .  I have watched the video numerous times and I cannot see how it was given.  Either that or I need my eyes tested  

[John Solomon]

I hope that this excellent description answers his question as well, as he has repeatedly missed the point so far. The offside did not occur from the corner, but from the next pass/phase.

[Robin Tucker]

18 minutes ago, ECPL said:

Player B was not in an offside position when receiving the ball.  The VAR showed player B whose foot was just in front.  Player A was not the player given offside  .  I have watched the video numerous times and I cannot see how it was given.  Either that or I need my eyes tested  

You are offside when the ball is played. NOT received. 
player B was never offside it was player A. The media assumed it was player B, as they are lazy, and don’t understand the laws of the game. Player A’s foot was offside when player B played the ball backwards. 
 

[Dave Bartlam]

40 minutes ago, Robin Tucker said:

You are offside when the ball is played. NOT received. 
player B was never offside it was player A. The media assumed it was player B, as they are lazy, and don’t understand the laws of the game. Player A’s foot was offside when player B played the ball backwards. 
 

I thought your first post explained the scenario perfectly. Not sure why you've had to explain it again. As you state, the recipient here in this still is closer to the goal line than the second last player and the ball. A good call.

[fenman]

I think the  FA are partly responsible for the confusion with this . Many people , for various reasons ( dislike of the affected team etc. )  view it in black and white , his heel was offside end of story .A couple of seasons ago I vaguely  remember an incident where Manchester United  ( remember them ? ) scored a goal when a player was standing in an offside position in the 6 yard box . The goal was allowed as it was deemed that he wasn't interfering with play . Following that logic how can a player near the touchline facing away from the goal  with his heel in an offside position be interfering with play ?

[John Solomon]

Because the ball is played to him!

[Dave Deacon]

1 hour ago, fenman said:

Following that logic how can a player near the touchline facing away from the goal  with his heel in an offside position be interfering with play ?

Because he received the ball and then played it into the box! 

[RAPPO]

VAR working fairly well in Serie A, Eredivisie, Bundesliga etc. Our officials ain’t using it properly, simple as that! 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

This thread epitomizes VAR...too many opinions...leave to the referee's. 

[Dave Bartlam]

39 minutes ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

This thread epitomizes VAR...too many opinions...leave to the referee's. 

The thing that's been made extremely clear and I wish people would understand...

 

Referees at our level are often criticised hugely, both on this forum and on other formats of social media because they might make [in the opinion of others] a mistake.

This just goes to show how tough the task is - especially for the lone referee on a park pitch on a Saturday with no support. These are fully fledged career professionals making mistakes at the highest possible level - even with the aid of all the cameras and angles that money can buy. 

Next time you see a referee make [in your personal opinion] a mistake, just bare in mind the fact I've raised above and bear it in mind before criticizing.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, Dave Bartlam said:

The thing that's been made extremely clear and I wish people would understand...

 

Referees at our level are often criticised hugely, both on this forum and on other formats of social media because they might make [in the opinion of others] a mistake.

This just goes to show how tough the task is - especially for the lone referee on a park pitch on a Saturday with no support. These are fully fledged career professionals making mistakes at the highest possible level - even with the aid of all the cameras and angles that money can buy. 

Next time you see a referee make [in your personal opinion] a mistake, just bare in mind the fact I've raised above and bear it in mind before criticizing.

And they are allowed to make a mistake - plenty of players make more than one mistake in a game of football. 

[Dave Bartlam]

And that's a very valid point

[fenman]

Bill Nicholson the manager of the great Spurs double tem of the 60's summed it up . Bobby Smith the Spurs centre forward was  sounding off about a referee after a game . Bill Nicholson said " how did you manage to miss the open goal Bob "?  "I made a mistake boss " said Smith  " what like the ref did "? said Nicholson said . I think if everyone , particularly pundit ex players , accepted that all humans ( except me ) make mistakes then then life wouldn't have all the controversy . Sadly , some people  take the football situation to extremes by saying that referees and the VAR  team conspire to help the top teams . 

[tizcornish]

Quote from a Saltash United programme

We look forward to a competitive game this afternoon and a bit of banter in the clubhouse after.

Newquay players and supporters will be interested to learn that Saltash United are the first non-league

club to introduce the non- league variant of VAR. Our system is affectionately called SUAR, (Saltash 

Ultras Assistant Referees ).Its a very simple system, before making any decision which could affect

the final score line, particularly if it would have negative effect on the end result for Saltash, the referee

must consult the Saltash Ultras ( concession fans who sit in front of the home dressing room) before 

making his final decision. We find it works very well and we have yet to lose a home game since the 

system was introduced. Membership of the Ultras panel is restricted to those over 70 years of age.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

41 minutes ago, tizcornish said:

Quote from a Saltash United programme

We look forward to a competitive game this afternoon and a bit of banter in the clubhouse after.

Newquay players and supporters will be interested to learn that Saltash United are the first non-league

club to introduce the non- league variant of VAR. Our system is affectionately called SUAR, (Saltash 

Ultras Assistant Referees ).Its a very simple system, before making any decision which could affect

the final score line, particularly if it would have negative effect on the end result for Saltash, the referee

must consult the Saltash Ultras ( concession fans who sit in front of the home dressing room) before 

making his final decision. We find it works very well and we have yet to lose a home game since the 

system was introduced. Membership of the Ultras panel is restricted to those over 70 years of age.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Love it.

[razor61]

VAR to me is being used in the wrong way and undermining referees/Assistant Referees especially with those hairline offside decisions. The referee should be the one to consult VAR if he is in any doubt about anything! He should use the pitch side monitors more as well as VAR. Because VAR are intervening all the time, that's what is frustrating all of us. VAR is there to be used not to intervene, that's my opinion!