Merger in Doubt??

[Plympep]

According to Twitter it looks like the step 5 merger could be in doubt next season? 

[silly billy]

5 minutes ago, Plympep said:

According to Twitter it looks like the step 5 merger could be in doubt next season? 

Does that mean that teams could of spent a lot of many bringing in expensive players in the hope of promotion for nothing?

I'm guessing one team will still go up. 

[Plympep]

Quite possibly. It seems a bit up in the Air atm. Very interesting few weeks I reckon 

[Dave Deacon]

[Gary Hocking]

Seems unlikely that the FA will reverse their decision to merge the leagues but I long ago stopped trying to understand FA decision-making.

If the merger doesn’t go ahead I think we’ll see some of the Bristol and North Somerset teams leave the Western League, if not immediately then within a year or two, whether it’s sideways moves to the Hellenic, relegations, or clubs folding like Bitton. They really are not up for the travelling that is currently required of them.

Whatever happens, commiserations to Phil Hiscox - a giant of the game locally and deserving of so much better. 

[Dane]

As I’ve said on Twitter. The western league officials have never been overly welcoming to the Cornish clubs.  When I was at saltash last season John Pool and his merry men visited us in the summer before the league kicked off and told us that they had to do everything they could not to upset their Bristol clubs who they had long standing relationships with. After that we didn’t get a visit from a league official till the March.  

Bristol clubs are rarely made to travel to cornwall on a midweek but Cornish clubs are expected to travel no matter when.  

For me the Fa should grant the Swpl step 5 status and run with a step 5 premier and two step 6 div 1’s  

Let the western league (Bristol) get on with it. 

 

 

 

 

[Plympep]

33 minutes ago, Dane said:

As I’ve said on Twitter. The western league officials have never been overly welcoming to the Cornish clubs.  When I was at saltash last season John Pool and his merry men visited us in the summer before the league kicked off and told us that they had to do everything they could not to upset their Bristol clubs who they had long standing relationships with. After that we didn’t get a visit from a league official till the March.  

Bristol clubs are rarely made to travel to cornwall on a midweek but Cornish clubs are expected to travel no matter when.  

For me the Fa should grant the Swpl step 5 status and run with a step 5 premier and two step 6 div 1’s  

Let the western league (Bristol) get on with it. 

 

 

 

 

I fully agree with you Dane & what a fine job you’re doing at Bodmin. I’ll look forward to my beloved Liskeard taking you boys on 

[Quiet Man]

Totally agree with what Dane said. Make a SWPL Premier division encompassing all Devon and Cornwall clubs who at present play at step 5 and promote the requisite number of clubs from Devon and Cornwall that finish top of the SWPL East and West, grounds permitting, then let the Western League look after their Bristol,  Somerset, and Gloucestershire buddies. It will be similar to when the SWPL Premier was mostly the top Devon and Cornwall clubs. With Phil Hiscox and the other SWPL officers in charge it would certainly be a lot better organised than the Western League which I find at times chaotic. After all,  this would basically be what the FA are demanding and without the hassle. 

 

 

 

[cornish leg end]

Sounds like a lash up! Teams like bude took out mortgages to get promoted this year 😂

[Cornwall Sports Media]

Latest here:

https://cornwallsportsmedia.substack.com/p/cornwall-football-february-6-2023?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

[100%cornish]

Just go back to the old swl Cornish clubs play in Cornwall and Devon clubs play in Devon .Clubs who have been throwing money at players just to get promoted like Wadebridge Bude and others Blazey will win the league for sure where would they go now when  they are promoted 

[CornishCrypto]

All the clubs spending money, will be back to where they were before, mid table or back in the St pirans league, surely the players aren’t going to stick around? 
 

Absolutely gutted for Phil Hiscox’s the situation seems a farce!

[quiksilver]

2 hours ago, Cornwall Sports Media said:

Latest here:

https://cornwallsportsmedia.substack.com/p/cornwall-football-february-6-2023?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

Sounds to me as if Mr Hiscox thrown his toys out of the pram as he is not being given a bigger title or a seat higher on the board in the new merged committee 🤷‍♂️

[Buckland Jim]

5 minutes ago, quiksilver said:

Sounds to me as if Mr Hiscox thrown his toys out of the pram as he is not being given a bigger title or a seat higher on the board in the new merged committee 🤷‍♂️

That's how I see it too quicksilver. If you read the two statements, the one from the Western League is well written and seems to refer to the whole board, whilst the SWPL one is all 'me' & 'I' and is just one person's bruised ego. 

[quiksilver]

Just now, Buckland Jim said:

That's how I see it too quicksilver. If you read the two statements, the one from the Western League is well written and seems to refer to the whole board, whilst the SWPL one is all 'me' & 'I' and is just one person's bruised ego. 

Glad I’m not alone, I was expecting an onslaught for having that differing opinion! 

[Buckland Jim]

27 minutes ago, quiksilver said:

Glad I’m not alone, I was expecting an onslaught for having that differing opinion! 

Think we're in the minority there though! 

[SomersetObserver]

Personally and purely from a selfish viewpoint as a spectator I think it is a good thing it is not happening as I wouldn't want to see the standard of the league which has been so good the last 2 seasons diluted and I do enjoy seeing new teams. 

I must say though the Peninsula League for me at least don't come out of this looking good at all their statement as has been said above is all about the author and his bruised ego (very little mention at all of the clubs) and the Peninsula League's twitter account is more like a cult of the league secretary than the account of a football league and not just any football league but one that is wanting to work at a higher level of the game. Very unprofessional.

Having said all of this I wouldn't be surprised to see something sorted and it still go ahead.

[The Town Man]

1 hour ago, SomersetObserver said:

Personally and purely from a selfish viewpoint as a spectator I think it is a good thing it is not happening as I wouldn't want to see the standard of the league which has been so good the last 2 seasons diluted and I do enjoy seeing new teams. 

I must say though the Peninsula League for me at least don't come out of this looking good at all their statement as has been said above is all about the author and his bruised ego (very little mention at all of the clubs) and the Peninsula League's twitter account is more like a cult of the league secretary than the account of a football league and not just any football league but one that is wanting to work at a higher level of the game. Very unprofessional.

Having said all of this I wouldn't be surprised to see something sorted and it still go ahead.

It is unfortunate that Phil Hiscox is being seen in this way. Anyone who listens to the Rappo & Deacs podcast will know that he is not that kind of man. Very affable, knowledgeable, capable, straightforward and with lots of common sense. Having watched a couple of games alongside him, it is not just a front for public consumption either. He is a thoroughly good bloke!

[Gary Hocking]

9 hours ago, quiksilver said:

Glad I’m not alone, I was expecting an onslaught for having that differing opinion! 

The counterpoint to yours and Buckland Jim’s interpretation of the statements - not to say you’re right or wrong, just that there are two sides to the argument - is that Phil’s summary notes that the WL has awarded the six most senior of the nine committee positions to their current officials and only the three most junior ones to current SWPL officials. Phil’s note cites this as evidence that what was initially described as a “merger of equals” has now instead become a takeover. 

[We Two]

Surprised that nobody has taken issue with Mr Hiscoxs account of shaking the hand of John Pool on a deal that was later reneged on.
If Phil Hiscox is telling the truth about what happened, ( and we believe he was ) he can't be blamed for his comments which as always contain facts not fiction.
An overload of top officials from one particular section is a recipe for future problems.
Phill Hiscox has recieved many complimentary comments on this forum, and so the majority are probably happy with his efforts to maintain the credibility of the South West Peninsula League.

[Ian Pethick]

 

21 hours ago, 100%cornish said:

Just go back to the old swl Cornish clubs play in Cornwall and Devon clubs play in Devon .Clubs who have been throwing money at players just to get promoted like Wadebridge Bude and others Blazey will win the league for sure where would they go now when  they are promoted 

Wonder if this is a discussion that is now being had at committee level around the various Cornish clubs. The goalposts have certainly been well and truly shifted with only 6 games left for some, with it looking like (I assume) just 1 going up from the Peninsula West as per 2021/22  (if the merger/takeover/whatever you want to call it, doesn't happen). Trips to the Bristol and Bath area are back on the agenda for this seasons champions, which may send a shudder down the spine of those holding the purse strings.

Silly question from myself, but as it now appears that nothing was formally signed off and set in stone with this whole process and the organisational structure behind it, what was the rush in getting it through for the 2023/24 season? 

 

 

[Dane]

The western league rushed it through. They were being threatened by some of their long standing clubs seeking lateral movement to the Hellenic League, similar to what cribbs and westbury done.  So the faster this went through the less clubs they would lose.  With this new league in the pipeline the western have been able to reassure clubs that ‘change was coming’ 
 

This has been in the planning since the original 4 Cornish clubs were upwardly moved. ( Saltash, Mousehole, Helston and millbrook ). 
 

Phill and the SWPL hold all the cards here. The western league need this to happen more than the SWPL else it will just result in more and more long trips to cornwall for the Bristol based clubs as one club goes up each year, plus something nobody has pointed out - Most of the officers for the western league are from areas which are now not represented by clubs that play in the western league.  

[davegrose]

4 hours ago, Dane said:

The western league rushed it through. They were being threatened by some of their long standing clubs seeking lateral movement to the Hellenic League, similar to what cribbs and westbury done.  So the faster this went through the less clubs they would lose.  With this new league in the pipeline the western have been able to reassure clubs that ‘change was coming’ 
 

This has been in the planning since the original 4 Cornish clubs were upwardly moved. ( Saltash, Mousehole, Helston and millbrook ). 
 

Phill and the SWPL hold all the cards here. The western league need this to happen more than the SWPL else it will just result in more and more long trips to cornwall for the Bristol based clubs as one club goes up each year, plus something nobody has pointed out - Most of the officers for the western league are from areas which are now not represented by clubs that play in the western league.  

So wot about the Cornish clubs that have to make the trip to Bristol,or doesn't that count in their eyes lol

[Dave Deacon]

14 minutes ago, davegrose said:

So wot about the Cornish clubs that have to make the trip to Bristol,or doesn't that count in their eyes lol

The Cornish clubs have just got on with it Dave and by the sounds of it are enjoying the experience

[GWRFC]

14 hours ago, Dane said:

plus something nobody has pointed out - Most of the officers for the western league are from areas which are now not represented by clubs that play in the western league.  

Apologies for joining the forum to make a correction...but the above statement is demonstrably incorrect.

[We Two]

4 minutes ago, GWRFC said:

Apologies for joining the forum to make a correction...but the above statement is demonstrably incorrect.

Perhaps you can explain why Mr Pool decided to renege on a handshake he made with Phil Hiscox, which is recognised as a seal of approval amongst fair minded and genuine people.
Any reason for the imbalance in official offices in the proposed new set up would also be interesting, as the Peninsula officials appear to have been offered none of the higher ranked offices all of which were proposed to go to The Western League.
Not an intended slight on you in any way, but your chosen pseudonyn relates to Glamorgan Wanderers Rugby Football Club in Cardiff ?

[GWRFC]

3 minutes ago, We Two said:

Perhaps you can explain why Mr Pool decided to renege on a handshake he made with Phil Hiscox, which is recognised as a seal of approval amongst fair minded and genuine people.
Any reason for the imbalance in official offices in the proposed new set up would also be interesting, as the Peninsula officials appear to have been offered none of the higher ranked offices all of which were proposed to go to The Western League.

I wasn't commenting on any of this, as I know no more than has been published by both parties.

I was referring solely to the point that I quoted in my reply.

[davegrose]

11 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

The Cornish clubs have just got on with it Dave and by the sounds of it are enjoying the experience

Fuel must be more expensive up that way 😜

[Dane]

1 hour ago, GWRFC said:

Apologies for joining the forum to make a correction...but the above statement is demonstrably incorrect.

It’s absolutely not! I was Witness to and took part in many conversations  at the time of the restructure.  
 

 

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

On 06/02/2023 at 18:49, 100%cornish said:

Just go back to the old swl Cornish clubs play in Cornwall and Devon clubs play in Devon .Clubs who have been throwing money at players just to get promoted like Wadebridge Bude and others Blazey will win the league for sure where would they go now when  they are promoted 

No! Clubs with ambition and wanting to play at the best standard possible is what is needed. Playing against and beating lesser, bottom end, clubs in SWPL 5-0 plus the very time serves no use to anyone. 

[GWRFC]

1 hour ago, Dane said:

It’s absolutely not! I was Witness to and took part in many conversations  at the time of the restructure.  
 

 

I am not disputing your whole message. Just the sentence I quoted in my reply:

"Most of the officers for the western league are from areas which are now not represented by clubs that play in the western league"

This is not true.

[Buckland Jim]

2 hours ago, We Two said:

Not an intended slight on you in any way, but your chosen pseudonyn relates to Glamorgan Wanderers Rugby Football Club in Cardiff ?

Or Great Wakering Rovers FC from Essex! 

[Town Fan]

On 06/02/2023 at 18:49, 100%cornish said:

Just go back to the old swl Cornish clubs play in Cornwall and Devon clubs play in Devon .Clubs who have been throwing money at players just to get promoted like Wadebridge Bude and others Blazey will win the league for sure where would they go now when  they are promoted 

 

1 hour ago, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

No! Clubs with ambition and wanting to play at the best standard possible is what is needed. Playing against and beating lesser, bottom end, clubs in SWPL 5-0 plus the very time serves no use to anyone. 

Spot on 'Both Sides of the Tamar', the old SWL was Step 7, that would mean promoted teams would have to play a season in Western League Div 1 and that really is Bristol centric.  How this will end is anyone's guess, but I'm sure we'll hear more on Dave Deacon's podcast this week.

[John Mead]

A simple solution would be for both Leagues to remain but the NLS to ask SWPL to 'run' the proposed West Step 5 League and WL to 'run' the proposed East Step 5 League. Because of the geographic spread of the proposed Step 6 Divisions, one of the current entities would 'run' 2 Step 6 divisions and the other just one. As always, NLS allocate Clubs to each League.

Travel problem solved without a merger being necessary!

[Ian Pethick]

28 minutes ago, John Mead said:

A simple solution would be for both Leagues to remain but the NLS to ask SWPL to 'run' the proposed West Step 5 League and WL to 'run' the proposed East Step 5 League. Because of the geographic spread of the proposed Step 6 Divisions, one of the current entities would 'run' 2 Step 6 divisions and the other just one. As always, NLS allocate Clubs to each League.

Travel problem solved without a merger being necessary!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Problem solved. We can all get on with our lives now.

[Dave Deacon]

1 hour ago, John Mead said:

A simple solution would be for both Leagues to remain but the NLS to ask SWPL to 'run' the proposed West Step 5 League and WL to 'run' the proposed East Step 5 League. Because of the geographic spread of the proposed Step 6 Divisions, one of the current entities would 'run' 2 Step 6 divisions and the other just one. As always, NLS allocate Clubs to each League.

Travel problem solved without a merger being necessary!

Seems a simple but sensible suggestion. Why didn’t someone suggest this in the first place, or was it and the FA decided against it?

[Tommy Matthews]

16 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Seems a simple but sensible suggestion. Why didn’t someone suggest this in the first place, or was it and the FA decided against it?

It takes someone like John with half a brain and a lifetime of football experience to state the obvious. If there were more John Meads around the game would be in a far better place. 

[mattelot]

8 hours ago, Buckland Jim said:

Or Great Wakering Rovers FC from Essex! 

I'm glad you spelt that right Jim.

[cornish leg end]

I think all people involved need to give their heads a wobble and get down to business sort this lash up out! Season will be over in a min and no one the wiser for next season. 

[davegrose]

21 hours ago, cornish leg end said:

I think all people involved need to give their heads a wobble and get down to business sort this lash up out! Season will be over in a min and no one the wiser for next season. 

Will be several interesting  conversations going on that's for sure in the mean time 

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

On 07/02/2023 at 16:51, Dane said:

The western league rushed it through. They were being threatened by some of their long standing clubs seeking lateral movement to the Hellenic League, similar to what cribbs and westbury done.  So the faster this went through the less clubs they would lose.  With this new league in the pipeline the western have been able to reassure clubs that ‘change was coming’ 
 

This has been in the planning since the original 4 Cornish clubs were upwardly moved. ( Saltash, Mousehole, Helston and millbrook ). 
 

Phill and the SWPL hold all the cards here. The western league need this to happen more than the SWPL else it will just result in more and more long trips to cornwall for the Bristol based clubs as one club goes up each year, plus something nobody has pointed out - Most of the officers for the western league are from areas which are now not represented by clubs that play in the western league.  

On the field the clubs of the once Greater Bristol League are faring poorly, as well as some being on a permanent whingefest since the initial ‘Cornish 4’  joined the WL. Now Bristol clubs reduced to being also rams.
 

Tavi, Exmouth, Parkway and Willand all Devon clubs recently promoted. This season two Cornish clubs in the top 3 with Barnstaple and Bucks having strong seasons from the other side of the Tamar. Bristol clubs nowhere!  
 

Why does a new Kernow / Devon / south Somerset league at Step 5 need to involve the WL at all? 
 

As others have said, the avuncular/ affable Phil Hiscox is the real deal. Compare his competence and fixture planning vis-a-vis his WL counterpart. He should have said earlier that he and other SWPL officials have all written in an individual capacity, but the arrogance of WL officials ‘awarding’ themselves all the top posts is risible. I’m firmly with Phil!

[cornishteddyboy]

I am surprised no one has come up with the old chestnut, you couldn't beat the old SWL for Cornwall and Devon sides playing together. 

Never happened, look at the old records, Cornish sides dominated the SWL and for many seasons outnumbered the Devon sides. I think for only the first two seasons numbers were even. For several seasons of the 18-20 clubs in the SWL, Newton Abbott Spurs were the only non Cornish side contesting.

That is why it had to change and now the FA have forced Cornish sides into the WL too quickly meaning Bristol sides want to drop out. 

Same with the forcing of the "all Cornwall amalgamation". We need 3-4 seasons of the St Piran, Combo and ECPL joined before adding the Trelawny/Duchy sides as there are too many clubs folding at those levels and it will look a real cock up.

[Ian Pethick]

9 hours ago, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

On the field the clubs of the once Greater Bristol League are faring poorly, as well as some being on a permanent whingefest since the initial ‘Cornish 4’  joined the WL. Now Bristol clubs reduced to being also rams.
 

Tavi, Exmouth, Parkway and Willand all Devon clubs recently promoted. This season two Cornish clubs in the top 3 with Barnstaple and Bucks having strong seasons from the other side of the Tamar. Bristol clubs nowhere!  
 

Why does a new Kernow / Devon / south Somerset league at Step 5 need to involve the WL at all? 
 

As others have said, the avuncular/ affable Phil Hiscox is the real deal. Compare his competence and fixture planning vis-a-vis his WL counterpart. He should have said earlier that he and other SWPL officials have all written in an individual capacity, but the arrogance of WL officials ‘awarding’ themselves all the top posts is risible. I’m firmly with Phil!

Certainly interesting to look at the Western League Prem & Div 1 tables from 1992/93 (30 years ago, how time flies), and you can see how many of the clubs in that league now ply their trade at step 2, 3 and 4. Tiverton, Taunton, Paulton, Exmouth, Bristol MF, Frome, Chippenham, Westbury, Melksham, Larkhall and Ashton & Blackwell (with Weston Super Mare having gone up as champions the season before). Clevedon and Mangotsfield both went up, but have since dropped back.

Those Tiverton and Taunton sides were juggernauts back then, and always looked likely to climb into the Southern League but, on the face of it, the forming of the Conference South as a new step 2 division back in 2004 pulled a lot of clubs up the pyramid from the Western League. It has possibly never regained the strength it had back in the 90's.

[SomersetObserver]

12 hours ago, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

On the field the clubs of the once Greater Bristol League are faring poorly, as well as some being on a permanent whingefest since the initial ‘Cornish 4’  joined the WL. Now Bristol clubs reduced to being also rams.
 

Tavi, Exmouth, Parkway and Willand all Devon clubs recently promoted. This season two Cornish clubs in the top 3 with Barnstaple and Bucks having strong seasons from the other side of the Tamar. Bristol clubs nowhere!  
 

Why does a new Kernow / Devon / south Somerset league at Step 5 need to involve the WL at all? 

You talk of 'Bristol clubs' but there is actually only 3 clubs from the Bristol area in the Premier Division. It's the first division that is packed with teams from the Bristol area.

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

Some Bristol area clubs moved laterally and whiners like Brislington took voluntary relegation. Odd Down IIRC did something similar. They had it easy when it was essentially a Greater Bristol League. It isn’t anymore, thankfully.  The likes of Britton bit the dust after getting ahead of themselves financially. 
 

At Step 5 you don’t get to play with your mates and travel within your own locality. That is for Step 7 and lower. Of course, at Step 5, there has to be a balance between unreasonable levels of travel and cost, allied to a recognition Step 5 is not a local league. Think Step 5 covering Kernow, Devon and South Somerset, might be that acceptable tipping point.

It has to be said players attitudes, as well as societal lifestyle changes [family life, work patterns, other leisure choices] mean many talented football chose not to test themselves and play locally now. This is maybe why flexi-leagues and 5 a side maybe more popular now. No easy answers.

As a fan I’d sooner go and see Saltash, Falmouth or Barnstaple  v Buckland  say, than going to a hovel like Cadbury Heath with zero atmosphere or facilities. My opinion only. 
 

 

 

[SomersetObserver]

24 minutes ago, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

Some Bristol area clubs moved laterally and whiners like Brislington took voluntary relegation. Odd Down IIRC did something similar. They had it easy when it was essentially a Greater Bristol League. It isn’t anymore, thankfully.  The likes of Britton bit the dust after getting ahead of themselves financially. 

Odd Down is Bath not Bristol but what they did was perfectly sensible for them as a club. They are a club most weeks are getting 30-40 through the gate, they have no rich benefactor to help fund the club, so financially it wasn't viable for them to remain in the new look Premier Division. Brislington on the other hand. 

23 minutes ago, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

As a fan I’d sooner go and see Saltash, Falmouth or Barnstaple  v Buckland  say, than going to a hovel like Cadbury Heath with zero atmosphere or facilities. My opinion only. 

I can't say Cadbury Heath is one of my favourite grounds either but at least the whole ground is habitable unlike one of those clubs that you name there.

[silly billy]

17 minutes ago, SomersetObserver said:

Odd Down is Bath not Bristol but what they did was perfectly sensible for them as a club. They are a club most weeks are getting 30-40 through the gate, they have no rich benefactor to help fund the club, so financially it wasn't viable for them to remain in the new look Premier Division. Brislington on the other hand. 

I can't say Cadbury Heath is one of my favourite grounds either but at least the whole ground is habitable unlike one of those clubs that you name there.

Agreed, Falmouth isn't great. 👍😁

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

2 minutes ago, silly billy said:

Agreed, Falmouth isn't great. 👍😁

I know it is not, it is Bath, but Bristol used as shorthand for Bristol and surrounds.

[100%cornish]

Just listening to the Deacs and Rappo Podcast about the merger and what a good bloke Phil Hiscox is he seems very genuine and honest and tells it how it is ,I wander what is going to happen to the new structure and see who does go up Blazey for sure but what is going to happen to the other teams is it still 4 teams go up .

Love listening to Podcast and Rappo and Deacs where talking about Truro City Reserves and they where saying how well Jamie Lowry is playing there i think you will find its his Brother Phil Lowry who is playing there and banging in the goals .

Think i will be watching Newquay vs Cameflford tmmrw or should that be vs Wadebridge because i think  Cmelford have 7 or 8 ex Wadebridge players playing for them .I was going to go Blazey tmmrw but have decided to give that a miss because with the price of petrol it works out dear because i am going there next week to see them play Bude because Newquay have no game .

Enjoy your footy this weekend and lets see who can claim these players but i dont know how many teams are going up 

Hope the ref is as good as last weeks was for the Newquay Vs Camelford match Mr Neal Hunisett was brilliant 

 

 

[Dave Deacon]

54 minutes ago, 100%cornish said:

Jamie Lowry is playing there

No Steve we did mean Jamie. He played last Saturday down against Illogan and by all accounts was spraying the ball around effortlessly!

That was his 6th game for them, by coincidence the same number as brother Phil!