Promotion in SWPL

[cornishteddyboy]

Tavistock have gained promotion to SWPL Premier (24/4/15).

Looking at table from feeder leagues, etc, my guess for promotion and relegation

Bovey - Premier into Div 1 East

Helston - Div 1 West into Premier

Tavistock - Div 1 East into Premier

Wendron - CCL into Div 1 West

Plymouth Argyle - into Div 1 East (9/3/15)

Tiverton Town Reserves - Devon & Exeter League into Div 1 East

Okehampton Argyle - Transfer for Div 1 East into Div 1 West.

Anyone agree or disagree

Edited April 25, 2015 by cornishteddyboy

[footycrazy15]

Argyle will go west & Marjon? They would go into West I imagine & Okehampton to stay East. The travel for them and to them would be ridiculous for some clubs 

Edited April 25, 2015 by footycrazy15

[cornishteddyboy]

Only two clubs allowed to be promoted from feeder league.

Wendron will finish 2nd in Combo, Tiverton Reserves in either 1st or 2nd in Devon and Exeter. Torridgeside probably third in North Devon and Marjon can't finish better than 4th in their league.

So top two sides, Wendron and Tiverton Reserves. One in each Division. 

Why Okehampton into West, they have been it before.

Edited April 25, 2015 by cornishteddyboy

[Paul]

Any reason why Appledore didn't want to go up? As currently their 3 points behind Tavistock with 2 games in hand. 

[Guest]

Maybe they couldn't sort out relevant facilities in time. I hope it's that and not the lack of ambition Budleigh Salterton have showed, having turned down promotion twice.

[teflon123]

Do we know where Plymouth Argyle are going to be playing their home games if they join the league??

[footycrazy15]

Do we know where Plymouth Argyle are going to be playing their home games if they join the league??

I haven't seen or heard anything yet. I imagine it's going to be a groundshare with parkway. Looks like special dispensation for Argyle while the grassroots clubs who failed the ground gradings for menial matters do not get any.

[as5680]

Tavistock have gained promotion to SWPL Premier (24/4/15).

Looking at table from feeder leagues, etc, my guess for promotion and relegation

Bovey - Premier into Div 1 East

Helston - Div 1 West into Premier

Tavistock - Div 1 East into Premier

Wendron - CCL into Div 1 West

Plymouth Argyle - into Div 1 East (9/3/15)

Tiverton Town Reserves - Devon & Exeter League into Div 1 East

Okehampton Argyle - Transfer for Div 1 East into Div 1 West.

Anyone agree or disagree

I sketched out a possible constitution this morning and I think Argyle Reserves will have to go into the West, and one other side will have to transfer from the East to balance the numbers.

Geographically this would really have to be either Okehampton or Plymstock, both of whom have played in the West before.  To me Plymstock would make more sense as you would have Argyle and Vospers both in that division, so the Plymouth clubs could be kept together.

Edited April 27, 2015 by as5680

[skippy]

It would be great to have a couple more clubs from North Devon in the SWP. Ilfracombe and Torrington were formerly in Western Premier and Braunton are leading both the top two divisions in North Devon League.

One has to feel some sympathy for Torridgeside, who have

- paid their money for ground grading inspection

- finishing in a promotion position

- got their ground up to standard for step 7

 

only to be shafted by the inclusion of Plymouth Argyle reserves / youth.

[Dave Deacon]

Not so sure "shafted" is the right word. Every club that applies to join the league must realise although they have paid a fee for the grading visit, no way does it guarantee entry into it!

Its not wasted as at least it tells them what might be needed for eventual acceptance. 👍

[John Mead]

Torridgeside would have to finish in a top two position to be eligible for promotion and I believe that's still possible Third placed teams can only be considered if a SWPL Reserve team (who cannot be promoted) are above them. Better to wait until the League tables are finalised - as the SWPL Board will - before coming to any conclusions.

[Dave Deacon]

No need to spoil our fun John 

POS		P	W	D	L	GD	PTS
1	Braunton	27	24	0	3	84	72
2	Boca Seniors	26	20	2	4	82	62
3	Torridgeside	25	17	4	4	45	55
4	Bideford Reserves	26	14	6	6	23	48
5	Ilfracombe Town	27	14	5	8	21	47
6	Shamwickshire Rovers	27	15	2	10	0	47
7	Park United	24	15	0	9	30	45
8	Fremington	27	10	3	14	-27	33
9	Torrington	26	10	3	13	-33	33
10	North Molton Sports Club	25	11	2	12	7	32	*
11	Bradworthy	25	6	5	14	-17	23
12	Appledore Reserves	27	5	5	17	-33	20
13	Barnstaple FC	26	5	5	16	-46	20
14	Shebbear United	27	4	2	21	-60	14
15	Barnstaple AAC	25	3	0	22	-76	6

[Guest]

Last season Torrington finshed in a postion to be accepted, only to be told there was no room at the inn. And then Foxhole and Truro withdrew. If their decisoins had been made sooner, then North Devon would have had another representative.

[skippy]

Torridgeside would have to finish in a top two position to be eligible for promotion and I believe that's still possible Third placed teams can only be considered if a SWPL Reserve team (who cannot be promoted) are above them.

​Not anymore, the latest rules state "The League will look to take the Champion or Runner Up club, however a club finishing in 3rd will be considered if the taking of that club fills a vacancy in the higher division"  So without Argyle in the picture, Torridgeside would have been automatically promoted.

[The Big Bad Fox]

chances of argyle reserves playing at home park?

[Dave Deacon]

chances of argyle reserves playing at home park?

​Minimal I would have thought!

[yeww]

will argyle be allowed to field "trialists" in a competitive league? in their current league it is allowed?

[Dave Deacon]

If they're eligible to sign SWPL registration papers why not I guess!

[THE BALD ONE]

I still don't understand why promotion is not mandatory ?

Is there any reason for this ?

( And I am not having a go at St. A either ) .

 

 

[footycrazy15]

A couple of questions for those more in the know:

1. Why are Argyle having so much special dispensation and not the grass root clubs the SWPL should be supporting? Does anyone actually believe they're going to stick around in the league for years to come? Still waiting to hear where they'll be playing.

2. How long, if it all, are clubs that are current swpl members allowed to bring their grounds up to the current gradings that have stopped a number of clubs going up this year?

The FA, Cornwall FA, SWPL, ECPL, Combo do a great job at times, but they are a million miles away from catching up with modern day football, the sheer lack of common sense is astounding sometimes. These boards need to be progressive, filled with a large number of older gentleman who are perhaps stuck in their ways need to get their heads around the fact that times are different from ten, twenty years ago. If I was ten years younger myself I would try to get on one of these boards. What are the requirements to do so? An injection of youth, and by youth I mean less than 40 years old, is needed on these boards, with fresh & progressive ideas, with a grip of the world we live in now. I believe they do do a fantastic job for a large part, however there is still a lot of room for improvement. 

[as5680]

I think the issue of finishing below SWPL reserve teams comes in if two applicants finish in the same position - as last year when Millbrook and Torrington both finished third in their respective leagues.  Once Braunton had withdrawn their application, its was my understanding that Millbrook were offered the place on the grounds that they were third below two reserve sides whereas Torrington were below two 'first teams'.

There was nothing to stop a third place team coming up if there was a vacancy, and of course without Argyle Reserves there would have been a third vacancy for Torridgeside to fill.  Appledore are very much out on a limb geographically and I think it would be really good for the league to see the likes of Braunton, Ilfracombe and at least one of the Torrington clubs coming up over the next few years.

[BIG AL]

A couple of questions for those more in the know:

1. Why are Argyle having so much special dispensation and not the grass root clubs the SWPL should be supporting? Does anyone actually believe they're going to stick around in the league for years to come? Still waiting to hear where they'll be playing.

2. How long, if it all, are clubs that are current swpl members allowed to bring their grounds up to the current gradings that have stopped a number of clubs going up this year?

The FA, Cornwall FA, SWPL, ECPL, Combo do a great job at times, but they are a million miles away from catching up with modern day football, the sheer lack of common sense is astounding sometimes. These boards need to be progressive, filled with a large number of older gentleman who are perhaps stuck in their ways need to get their heads around the fact that times are different from ten, twenty years ago. If I was ten years younger myself I would try to get on one of these boards. What are the requirements to do so? An injection of youth, and by youth I mean less than 40 years old, is needed on these boards, with fresh & progressive ideas, with a grip of the world we live in now. I believe they do do a fantastic job for a large part, however there is still a lot of room for improvement. 

​I have been stating this fact for years. The cornwall fa is out of date with its views and their members are just as out of date with their views concerning local football. I can only assume that they are in it for the glory of wearing their blazers and gaining free entry to matches, nothing else matters. As for getting on the board, there appears to be no form of democratic election and is a case of who you know. I do not see how the fa gives any sensible assistance to Cornish football clubs.

[John Mead]

A 3rd placed club could be accepted into SWPL to fill a vacancy but technically would not count as a promoted club - only two of which are permitted. With Argyle making early application to fill an anticipated vacancy - and being accepted - no other vacancy currently exists.

[ennis81]

A 3rd placed club could be accepted into SWPL to fill a vacancy but technically would not count as a promoted club - only two of which are permitted. With Argyle making early application to fill an anticipated vacancy - and being accepted - no other vacancy currently exists.

How can a team be accepted if it is not known where they are going to play and thus ground grading ascertained for the league to make such a decision?

[BIG AL]

Is this once again the swpl officials giving favour to a Devon team after all, their base is in Exeter!

[baldy]

And here is news for the whingers ...

From SWPL website forum tonight.

The league officers are saddened to report that Perranporth AFC will be leaving the SWP League having requested voluntary relegation to the Cornwall Combination League.

As a firm “aside” – whilst we would not have wanted it this way, those that stated on other forums that taking Plymouth Argyle Reserves was denying a club a place in the SWPL next season will now be able to see that in fact this is not, and never was the case. 

We had known of Perranporths intentions but had agreed – SWP League, Combination League AND the Perranporth club, to not make any announcement until they had completed there fixtures.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Well as they had known that, then they fuelled the speculation that Plymouth had special  treatment.

One nil to the whingers.

[skyblueref]

Heard that Mullion have appealed their rejection to the West. Good luck to them if it's true.

[Guest]

Do we know where Plymouth Argyle are going to be playing their home games if they join the league??

​Announced as Bickleigh Barracks

[Savo]

Home of 42 commando royal marines, willow, be interesting to see how access to the camp is managed for players staff and supporters.

[Home Waters]

Home of 42 commando royal marines, willow, be interesting to see how access to the camp is managed for players staff and supporters.

​If true, then  absolutely right Savo, its strange but people involved with football never seem to learn from mistakes of the past or learn from football experiences. Gaining access to MOD and Military establishments has always been the downfall of clubs in and around the Plymouth area, in a number of leagues over the years. Local football is about allowing unfettered access to followers of clubs and the game in general. Will visiting clubs have to provide details of supporters to gain access to the camp, as they have in the past, produce ID, will vehicles be allowed in, so many security questions these days. It has never worked before, yet another example of bending over backwards for Argyle who do not have a reserve team yet and will field youngsters. On the other hand is the pitch separate from the Camp all together - I don't think so.

[Savo]

Not to sure where the pitch is, but if on camp the security implications are quite big and access will be a lengthy process, especially as each player and official will need booking on individually with photo id in accordance with current security procedures. If the pitch is separate the question of club house and hosting after the game could be an issue, strange choice of pitch if you ask me, surely argyle have a training pitch that could have been utilised?

[Mike Odgers]

Will this venue be any different from Royal Marines who were SWPL members and there was no security check then.

Same as RNAS Culdrose (Europe's biggest Naval/Air Base)  or are these two detached from the main base?

[Savo]

Culdrose is detached from the Base Mike, as for previous RM teams are can't comment as have no idea haha, but as serving Sergeant in the Army, I would suggest if th epitch is on the camp then security check process will be in place, but it could be off the main camp which would be ideal.

[footycrazy15]

I don't think we're going to get any answers from Argyle or the SWPL so we will have to see how it is played out. We should give them the benefit of the doubt. However if it does turn out the way others have stated, e.g no contribution to gate or bar money, problems with access to their ground, does the ground even meet every requirement for step 7? Edgcumbe and Mullion were certainly not given any dispensation over trivial matters by the sound of things, even if Argyle drop out in a season or two, then the SWPL should be held to account for the disapproportianate favouritism Argyle have seemed to receive and not the grassroot clubs that should be receiving more support. 

[as5680]

The pitch at Bickleigh Barracks certainly appears from Google Earth to be on the main base and looks as though there would be an issue of security checks being needed.  Hopefully there will be an announcement from the league about that soon.  Surprised to see Torridgeside 'declined' on the official announcement of the constitution and the West Division running a team short.

[Savo]

I don't think we're going to get any answers from Argyle or the SWPL so we will have to see how it is played out. We should give them the benefit of the doubt. However if it does turn out the way others have stated, e.g no contribution to gate or bar money, problems with access to their ground, does the ground even meet every requirement for step 7? Edgcumbe and Mullion were certainly not given any dispensation over trivial matters by the sound of things, even if Argyle drop out in a season or two, then the SWPL should be held to account for the disapproportianate favouritism Argyle have seemed to receive and not the grassroot clubs that should be receiving more support. 

That's a fair point about ground grading, I don't think I have played on many military bases that have even come close to the pitch criteria, changing facilities is never an issue though,beinteresting to see how things unfold.

[Savo]

Have just spoke to a work colleague who is a marine, says the pitches are in the cup, but are already used on weekends so maybe the entrance procedure is already a well oiled machine and won't hinder players and supporters, only time will tell.

[Home Waters]

I can assure you that there will be checks on the gate, visiting teams will have to produce list of names of those going into the match, you will not be allowed just to wander out of the ground and then wander back in. The system will be quite restricting (& rightly so) for the protection of the service personnel. The RM camp at Exmouth was not a problem as the ground and facilities was outside the main camp. All the MOD pitches have given problems over the years to Plymouth followers of local football, league officials have had many complaints over the years of different leagues within the City, all have eventually folded as it was too much for the visitors to put up with. As a league within the FA pyramid it cannot be right to restrict access to a league match.

[Savo]

Home waters agree with you mate, what I was saying is hopefully it is a well swept up procedure as not to cause to much delay, but I can't see this being reality due to current regulations on passes and escorting visitors, as an additional point there is also meant to be a service person allocated to escort all parties whilst inside the wire as no player officials or supporters will be given unescorted access, yet another logistical/admin hurdle to be overcome.

[kevin richards]

We are still talking about the peninsular league WEST arnt we ???? 2 teams from the WEST go out & 2 teams from PLYMOUTH come in. Am I missing something here. !!!!!

[footycrazy15]

Yep, rather then give a couple of Cornish teams a little bit of dispensation for a year they'll bend over backwards for Argyle and have Plymouth teams in the west. There's still a number of current SWPL teams that's don't meet the new ground gradings, still wondering if they have to meet these eventually and how long they get to do so?

[BIG AL]

For the last 5 years I have always maintained that swpl officials have given preference to Devon clubs and this really proves my point. I am beginning to think that it was a mistake for the old south western league be dis banded. At least then, the officialism was handled within the county and strangely the gates were bigger!

[S Abbo]

Sounds awful... Gutted for the lads that thought they would get to play at home park... ???

[Argyle Fan]

I don't think we're going to get any answers from Argyle or the SWPL so we will have to see how it is played out. We should give them the benefit of the doubt. However if it does turn out the way others have stated, e.g no contribution to gate or bar money, problems with access to their ground, does the ground even meet every requirement for step 7? Edgcumbe and Mullion were certainly not given any dispensation over trivial matters by the sound of things, even if Argyle drop out in a season or two, then the SWPL should be held to account for the disapproportianate favouritism Argyle have seemed to receive and not the grassroot clubs that should be receiving more support. 

That's a fair point about ground grading, I don't think I have played on many military bases that have even come close to the pitch criteria, changing facilities is never an issue though,beinteresting to see how things unfold.

​From the scraps of information I've heard, this ground-share has been arranged very very very recently so there's no way any ground-grading was done by 31st March.

Bickleigh doesn't appear to have any bus service at all so for those like me without a car it will be a right pain to get to.

And from what I've heard about the standard of player likely to be involved it wouldn't be worth the effort anyway.

 

[Argyle Fan]

Yep, rather then give a couple of Cornish teams a little bit of dispensation for a year they'll bend over backwards for Argyle and have Plymouth teams in the west. There's still a number of current SWPL teams that's don't meet the new ground gradings, still wondering if they have to meet these eventually and how long they get to do so?

​I wonder if any thought was given to say Mullion ground-sharing with say Helston for a season in order to sort out their own ground's "inadequancies" ?

In SWPL East, Axminster have been using a number of temporary homes for 2 full seasons. The pitch they used at Colyton Grammar School for most of 2013-14 was nowhere near League standard and would have embarrassed any self-respecting pub team.

 

 

[rocky170267]

For the last 5 years I have always maintained that swpl officials have given preference to Devon clubs and this really proves my point. I am beginning to think that it was a mistake for the old south western league be dis banded. At least then, the officialism was handled within the county and strangely the gates were bigger!

East and west are two completely different things. Plymouth is closer to Newquay than it is Exmouth for example. So plymouth teams are quite entitled to be in either division surely

[Guest]

It's never been a strict Cornwall-Devon divisional league. If Hayle, St Just, Mullion, St Ives Town eg were all promoted, Liskeard could find themselves in the east division hypothetically.

[Guest]

Taken from the SWPL website in relation to the Plymouth Argyle-Bickleigh saga:

It is just inside the gate entry (although you can see the pitch without entering, through a wire fence!)

Entry procedures are being worked on, a meeting between the MOD, the league and Plymouth Argyle has already taken place and the security orders are being re-worded by the MOD, they will then be given to Argyle to put into place on a practical basis and will be monitored by the league.

I am not going to get into a debate now about if Fred Bloggs turns up will he get in, what I will say is the issue has been raised, systems are being putting in place and closer to the time of them actually play a home game we will advertise what has been agreed and also monitor it once they start playing matches.

But one problem with social media and forums is that instant information seems a “right” and everything has a conspiracy about it! The league, club and MOD staff are sensible adults who are fully aware of potential drawbacks but are and will work to deal with them.

In a similar “rant” – I see comments about 2 West teams coming from Plymouth. Exactly what were we supposed to do as without the 4 Devon based clubs the West would have just 13 members and the East would have 22! People forget that if we were able to pass, say Mullion, then we could not have taken Wendron as you can only take 1 per division (so it would have made no difference to the travel. Likewise Edgecumbe, maybe a Cornish clubs, but they do actually play home games in Plymouth – so that would have been another trip over the bridge !

Sometimes my fellow officers and I really do wonder if we can ever please any of the people, any of the time !!!

[Argyle Fan]

For the last 5 years I have always maintained that swpl officials have given preference to Devon clubs and this really proves my point. I am beginning to think that it was a mistake for the old south western league be dis banded. At least then, the officialism was handled within the county and strangely the gates were bigger!

​Have you discussed your concerns with the League Officials? I'm sure Mark and/or Phil would be happy to have a chat when they're at a game near you.

You'll find they're both decent blokes who work their nuts off running what most people consider to be an extremely well-run league.

As for the old chestnut about the South Western League, if it wasn't for the Peninsula League no Cornish clubs would be able to take part in the FA Cup and FA Vase.