Combo withdrawal?

[Dave Deacon]

Combo down to 15 is it now? 

[Sijames]

Illogan have pulled out! Why leave it so late, especially after all the fuss with the AGM and then the EGM! Beggars belief!

will someone now appeal not getting in and they’ll have an EEGM?! 🤦🏻‍♂️🤣🙌

[Devils@Dusk]

Copied from Illogan's Facebook page (just in-case anyone doesn't do social media): https://www.facebook.com/illoganrblfc/

"It is with great disappointment and sadness that we announce the removal of our Reserve side from the Combination League with immediate effect.

After a recent committee meeting and conversations with the management, we have deemed it best to act now before the season has started. With no management for the Combination League side and some of the players choosing to step up into the first team, we have been left in a situation with a lack of players to fulfil 3 sides - leaving the club with this difficult decision.

Our new reserve side who will be playing in the Trelawny League have established themselves well within the club by bringing a mixture of experience and youth together however many of whom who did not wish to play in the Combination League. The club have deemed it best to remain with the Trelawny League and St Piran League with the intention to be competitive across the club with an aim of one day returning back to 3 teams once we are re-established and the pandemic is behind us.

We wish Wardy, Mikey, their management teams and the players the best of luck for the upcoming season."

 

[Lifeintheolddog]

Falmouth United, as the only remaining team wishing to join the combination offered to fill the space left by illogans departure but the committee decided although they meet all the criteria that the league would continue minus a team with 15. 🤔🤔. Anyone would think there’s a grudge there 

[bighairydave]

4 hours ago, Lifeintheolddog said:

Falmouth United, as the only remaining team wishing to join the combination offered to fill the space left by illogans departure but the committee decided although they meet all the criteria that the league would continue minus a team with 15. 🤔🤔. Anyone would think there’s a grudge there 

Or perhaps for once the Combination League thought about the effort by Trelawny to already sort fixtures and did the right thing.

[Lifeintheolddog]

No, we contacted the trelawney league direct and they gave us their full backing and said disruption to them would be minimal. We passed this info onto the powers that be at the combo and we’re still point blankly refused. 🤔

[one2many]

It is disappointing for the lads at Falmouth united who have played and held there own against senior sides and would relish the chance to play stronger sides regularly. 

I look at the impact on the remaining clubs in the combo. They are losing 2 games which may not seem like a lot but a extra home game would certainly help financially for home clubs  with a club house after the struggles of the pandemic or a local pub we go back to after games as they could also do with a boost.

Stopping a side looking for a challenge being denied who are in a strong financial position and with a ever increasing youth set up to feed it's senior sides just seems like the committee couldn't be bothered with the paperwork and as the club appealed their earlier decision to promote a brand new side over and established side maybe the committee don't like it when people rock the boat.  

[Sijames]

And here lies the BIG problem!

Fal Utd haven’t even gone up fully through the leagues into Trelawny Prem, yet they feel it’s their right to have a place in the combination league? Due to the desperate needs of the combo over recent years to recruit teams it has made a complete mockery of the Cornwall footballing structure and results in this!

get back to how it used to be in the Fal Helston / Mining league days where teams had to earn the right to go up a league, sign of modern times where people themselves think it’s their god given right to be given everything on a plate!!!!

[Lifeintheolddog]

Goldolphin, ruan minor, rosudgeon???? None of these got there without a helping hand and have flourished. We are a massive setup getting bigger by the year and like most other clubs having a junior and senior pathway would make sense, by speeding it along would stop us from losing senior quality youngsters from our ranks. We don’t feel entitled, the combo is short on teams so it made sense, they lost 1 team and there was 1 ready to step in. 

[6times]

1 hour ago, Sijames said:

And here lies the BIG problem!

Fal Utd haven’t even gone up fully through the leagues into Trelawny Prem, yet they feel it’s their right to have a place in the combination league? Due to the desperate needs of the combo over recent years to recruit teams it has made a complete mockery of the Cornwall footballing structure and results in this!

get back to how it used to be in the Fal Helston / Mining league days where teams had to earn the right to go up a league, sign of modern times where people themselves think it’s their god given right to be given everything on a plate!!!!

 

1 hour ago, Sijames said:

And here lies the BIG problem!

Fal Utd haven’t even gone up fully through the leagues into Trelawny Prem, yet they feel it’s their right to have a place in the combination league? Due to the desperate needs of the combo over recent years to recruit teams it has made a complete mockery of the Cornwall footballing structure and results in this!

get back to how it used to be in the Fal Helston / Mining league days where teams had to earn the right to go up a league, sign of modern times where people themselves think it’s their god given right to be given everything on a plate!!!!

Agree with this totally , 1 thing not pointed out while having a moan about league committee is , is your ground/facilities up to standard , this maybe another reason added to one above . 

57 minutes ago, Lifeintheolddog said:

Goldolphin, ruan minor, rosudgeon???? None of these got there without a helping hand and have flourished. We are a massive setup getting bigger by the year and like most other clubs having a junior and senior pathway would make sense, by speeding it along would stop us from losing senior quality youngsters from our ranks. We don’t feel entitled, the combo is short on teams so it made sense, they lost 1 team and there was 1 ready to step in. 

And again sorry if I’m wrong but to my knowledge ruan minor ain’t flourished think they packed in ,making the whole point exactly.

[one2many]

Falmouth united play on a freshly laid 3g pitch, brilliant changing facilities. My point was that it would benefit the league having 16 teams. More competition for the clubs already in the division, more revenue for clubs, another competitive side to play against, Falmouth united don't feel entitled to anything but missed out for a side still searching for players and now another spot opened up, the trelawny league have no issues with it. I can't see the harm in giving there young side a opportunity to play against some of the best club and pitches around. 

 

They aren't aiming for senior football to win the league but they have a competitive side, they play fast attacking football. They would certainly offer the league a lot. But the decision has been made. It's just seems a rushed decision. Falmouthth united play on a freshly lad 3g pitch, brilliant changing facilities. My point was that it would benefit the league having 16 teams. More competition for the clubs already in the division, more revenue for clubs, another competitive side to play against, Falmouth united don't feel entitled to anything but missed out for a side still searching for players and now another spot opened up, the trelawny league have no issues with it. I can't see the harm in giving there young side a opportunity to play against some of the best club and pitches around. 

They aren't aiming for senior football to win the league but they have a competitive side, they play fast attacking football. They would certainly offer the league a lot. But the decision has been made. It's just seems a rushed decision. 

[Lifeintheolddog]

Brand new Astro, with decent dressing rooms and showers, we meet the criteria. Ruan minor did flourish they basically finished top last 2 years, sure they ve dropped out now but so have illogan , doesn’t make them any less of a club. As it’s been pointed out lack of players is why teams fold, we at Falmouth will never have this problem due to constant supply of youth. Hence it would have been beneficial to have junior and senior to accommodate the different ability’s coming through. I envisage us having a 3rd team in the not too distant future. Not everyone will agree and I understand that and in an ideal world I agree promotion and relegation should be done on winning league but not every team has the facilities and ambition. We ll struggle to keep our talented youth out of the hands of other local teams when senior football is waved at them which is hard to take when we’ve coached them from 5/6/7 years old. 

[Dave Deacon]

29 minutes ago, Lifeintheolddog said:

Brand new Astro, with decent dressing rooms and showers, we meet the criteria. Ruan minor did flourish they basically finished top last 2 years, sure they ve dropped out now but so have illogan , doesn’t make them any less of a club. As it’s been pointed out lack of players is why teams fold, we at Falmouth will never have this problem due to constant supply of youth. Hence it would have been beneficial to have junior and senior to accommodate the different ability’s coming through. I envisage us having a 3rd team in the not too distant future. Not everyone will agree and I understand that and in an ideal world I agree promotion and relegation should be done on winning league but not every team has the facilities and ambition. We ll struggle to keep our talented youth out of the hands of other local teams when senior football is waved at them which is hard to take when we’ve coached them from 5/6/7 years old. 

Do you get the chance to appeal to the Cornwall FA like Truro City? They did and were successful in getting their reserve side into the St Piran League, but are you not in a high enough level to be able to do this?  

[6times]

56 minutes ago, Lifeintheolddog said:

Brand new Astro, with decent dressing rooms and showers, we meet the criteria. Ruan minor did flourish they basically finished top last 2 years, sure they ve dropped out now but so have illogan , doesn’t make them any less of a club. As it’s been pointed out lack of players is why teams fold, we at Falmouth will never have this problem due to constant supply of youth. Hence it would have been beneficial to have junior and senior to accommodate the different ability’s coming through. I envisage us having a 3rd team in the not too distant future. Not everyone will agree and I understand that and in an ideal world I agree promotion and relegation should be done on winning league but not every team has the facilities and ambition. We ll struggle to keep our talented youth out of the hands of other local teams when senior football is waved at them which is hard to take when we’ve coached them from 5/6/7 years old. 

I get your point but back in the day Crewe had an outstanding youth policy , should they have been let in the premiership,? where do Plymouth parkway get there players ? Where do helston get there’s ? Where do Falmouth town get there’s ? Where do mullion get theres ? Where will the next club get theres ? Get my point it’s a food chain and should be hard work to climb it . Listen hopefully/maybe in 10-15years you get to where you wanna be good luck with it . Last note on 3G pitch’s why don’t hayle play all the games on it , bloody hurts your knees /ankles when your over 25 good for training less so for games IMO. 
maybe just maybe that’s a factor the committee took into account.

[Lifeintheolddog]

Think your 10/15 year comment bit disrespectful. Mullion finished top of div 2 and got in, goldolphin folded 2 seasons ago  so had no junior side and went straight into combo. To put in context ( really nice bunch and would never say a bad word against them and they have all our best wishes ) we played them in friendly 3 weeks ago and with 10mins to go we were winning 5-1 with 5 quality 16 year olds playing until we changed it around and won 5-4. 
im not here to slate other teams or fall out I just think it’s an injustice that other teams in similar situations got in above us which was voted on which I accept but then a team drops out and we are the only ones left to fill the void and the committee still point blank refuse us. I wander how personally you’d take it if it was your club 🤔

[baldy]

So why not follow the advice given and contact the County? The fact that you have the backing of the Trelawny league is a strong point in your favour. I don’t thing THE FA will get involved as it is very much a local issue. Do you really have anything to lose other than maybe further aggravating the Combo?

[Lifeintheolddog]

4 minutes ago, baldy said:

So why not follow the advice given and contact the County? The fact that you have the backing of the Trelawny league is a strong point in your favour. I don’t thing THE FA will get involved as it is very much a local issue. Do you really have anything to lose other than maybe further aggravating the Combo?

We appealed the original decision as we did nt get a fair chance to explain to the clubs what we are about and the FA backed our appeal and made the combo committee do a proper AGM. This aggravated them which they made quite apparent and they stood by their decision with goldophin and mullion which we accepted. It left us and mousehole out. Mousehole then folded, which only left us wanting to advance. Illogan then pulled out and we contacted combo immediately asking to fill the void but were told NO we don’t want to upset trelawney. We contacted trelawney and they gave us their blessing and we’re then still told no by combo. Surely keeping combo to 16 was better than 15? I don’t think there’s anything we could do or say they just point blank don’t want us in

[Steve Carpenter]

2 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

Do you get the chance to appeal to the Cornwall FA like Truro City? They did and were successful in getting their reserve side into the St Piran League, but are you not in a high enough level to be able to do this?  

As we found out Dave, different rules apply for filling vacancies in St Piran as it's a NLS Feeder League. 

There is a subtle difference between the Combination AGM decision on their membership and the situation they find themselves in now.  The only grounds for appeal on an AGM decision are if the decision is made in an unconstitutional manner.  Subsequently that was all resolved at the SGM.  Where a club withdraws once the constitution for the following season has been set at the AGM/SGM the Management Committee have the power to fill the vacancy before the commencement of the playing season.  In other words it's up to the Committee to decide whether to run with 15 or fill the vacancy.

I would make one general observation.  Clubs have been and continue to be slated for not showing ambition to progress when they are clearly capable.  Clubs that do have ambition and try to take advantage of an opportunity that opens up for them, which is all in accordance with the rules that have been in place since at least 2002, they then get slated.  Why?

[Dave Deacon]

3 minutes ago, Steve Carpenter said:

Why

Unfortunately people have to have something to moan about!

9 minutes ago, Lifeintheolddog said:

Surely keeping combo to 16 was better than 15?

I don’t really see what difference one team makes and so no problem with 15! Out of the past 10 seasons the Combo has ended up with an odd number and so I shouldn’t think it will concern them too much.

[GeorgeMc]

8 hours ago, Lifeintheolddog said:

Brand new Astro, with decent dressing rooms and showers, we meet the criteria. Ruan minor did flourish they basically finished top last 2 years, sure they ve dropped out now but so have illogan , doesn’t make them any less of a club. As it’s been pointed out lack of players is why teams fold, we at Falmouth will never have this problem due to constant supply of youth. Hence it would have been beneficial to have junior and senior to accommodate the different ability’s coming through. I envisage us having a 3rd team in the not too distant future. Not everyone will agree and I understand that and in an ideal world I agree promotion and relegation should be done on winning league but not every team has the facilities and ambition. We ll struggle to keep our talented youth out of the hands of other local teams when senior football is waved at them which is hard to take when we’ve coached them from 5/6/7 years old. 

The combo isn’t senior football though, it’s recreational in the same way the trelawny league is so if they want to play senior they need to step up to St Pirans. 
 

this is why the combo is confusing people as it’s not a senior league! They get to play in the Senior cup as they cut a deal with the CCFA when the leagues were restructured by the FA. Last season for it? 

[6times]

6 hours ago, Lifeintheolddog said:

Think your 10/15 year comment bit disrespectful. Mullion finished top of div 2 and got in, goldolphin folded 2 seasons ago  so had no junior side and went straight into combo. To put in context ( really nice bunch and would never say a bad word against them and they have all our best wishes ) we played them in friendly 3 weeks ago and with 10mins to go we were winning 5-1 with 5 quality 16 year olds playing until we changed it around and won 5-4. 
im not here to slate other teams or fall out I just think it’s an injustice that other teams in similar situations got in above us which was voted on which I accept but then a team drops out and we are the only ones left to fill the void and the committee still point blank refuse us. I wander how personally you’d take it if it was your club 🤔

Sorry 10/15 year comment not being disrespectful, just seems you guys have a plan and I’d like to think entry to the combo league isn’t it for the end game 👍 

[Lifeintheolddog]

44 minutes ago, 6times said:

Sorry 10/15 year comment not being disrespectful, just seems you guys have a plan and I’d like to think entry to the combo league isn’t it for the end game 👍 

👍

[Steve Carpenter]

56 minutes ago, GeorgeMc said:

The combo isn’t senior football though, it’s recreational in the same way the trelawny league is so if they want to play senior they need to step up to St Pirans. 

Correct.  The terms 'Senior and 'Junior' as has been stated many times, went a long time ago now.  The only rider to that is that feeder league's such as St Piran are in FA terms 'senior county leagues'.

1 hour ago, GeorgeMc said:

They get to play in the Senior cup as they cut a deal with the CCFA when the leagues were restructured by the FA.

No deals were cut by anybody as part of the restructure 3 years ago.

Combination, ECPL and St Piran teams will compete in the new Intermediate Cup starting this season.

 

[Thecupfootballblogger]

I am a relative new boy to Cornish football, having only been down here for about 10 years and with no in-depth knowledge of or feeling for local football history - and my main interest is obviously in cup football, as my user name would suggest - but couldn't all these arguments be settled by actually combining some of the leagues now? I know it is something that has been mooted before but thought it might be worth another airing. I have no axe to grind with any league in Cornwall, and certainly not with any of the people who work so hard to run the leagues, but didn't the creation of the St Piran League change the landscape entirely? Couple that with the wider FA reorganisation, which has seen the "upward movement" of a number of Cornish teams, isn't now the right time to think about reshaping the leagues in Cornwall? (OK, not right now as the season is about to start, but maybe some time very soon!) From where I stand, it would make sense to combine the Combo and the Trelawny in the west and the Duchy and East Cornwall in the, er, east and then they could logically feed into the respective east and west divisions of the St Piran League. To try to preserve some of the history of these leagues, perhaps the west league could be called the Trelawny Combination and the east competition could by the East Duchy League? That, to me, would be a simpler and more easily understood structure. And then rows about teams being "upwardly moved" from, say Trelawny Division 2 to the Combo, should disappear, although I am sure we will all still find something to argue about!  I am sure the answer is never going to be that simple but this solution does make sense to me. But, wherever you play or watch your football this season, and in whatever competition, I hope you all enjoy the season ahead. Let's hope it is an entertaining and, hopefully, complete one. Cheers.

[Dave Deacon]

2 hours ago, Thecupfootballblogger said:

but couldn't all these arguments be settled by actually combining some of the leagues now?

If you have better luck in this than the County who have been trying - yippee!

 

2 hours ago, Thecupfootballblogger said:

but didn't the creation of the St Piran League change the landscape entirely?

Yes, but not how it was originally intended. The original idea was a Step 7 League covering the whole of the county. That proved a no-goer and probably under pressure from above, the County had to settle for 2 Step 7 leagues, hence diluting the leagues below with things also not being helped by the subsequent pandemic situation!

[Thecupfootballblogger]

22 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

If you have better luck in this than the County who have been trying - yippee!

 

Yes, but not how it was originally intended. The original idea was a Step 7 League covering the whole of the county. That proved a no-goer and probably under pressure from above, the County had to settle for 2 Step 7 leagues, hence diluting the leagues below with things also not being helped by the subsequent pandemic situation!

Hi Dave. Yes, I know the background and, from here, it looks as if the Combo and East Cornwall missed their chance to protect their status - they would have been the obvious choices to be the step 7/feeder leagues for Cornwall and then the St Piran League need not have been instigated. As it is, the SPL now has that status and the Combo and ECPL are classed as grassroots and therefore of no higher a standing than the Trelawny and Duchy. So we now have four so-called grassroots leagues in Cornwall. Is that really necessary? Wouldn't combining them into just two be less cumbersome? As I said before, I am sure it is all a bit more complicated than that but, well sometimes the simple solutions are the best.

[Steve Carpenter]

14 hours ago, Thecupfootballblogger said:

Yes, I know the background and, from here, it looks as if the Combo and East Cornwall missed their chance to protect their status - they would have been the obvious choices to be the step 7/feeder leagues for Cornwall and then the St Piran League need not have been instigated. 

They were indeed the obvious choice however when offered the opportunity to run Step 7, as it was then, both declined.  This meant that a Step 7 league had to be formed and here we are.

14 hours ago, Thecupfootballblogger said:

Combo and ECPL are classed as grassroots and therefore of no higher a standing than the Trelawny and Duchy. So we now have four so-called grassroots leagues in Cornwall. Is that really necessary? Wouldn't combining them into just two be less cumbersome? As I said before, I am sure it is all a bit more complicated than that but, well sometimes the simple solutions are the best.

As part of the FA's restructure Step 7 leagues were re-named NLS Regional Feeder Leagues and moved into the FA's Grassroots Division last year.  That being said, the FA still retain a lot of control over the Feeder Leagues through the NLS Leagues Committee so St Piran ends up in a bit of a twilight zone with a foot very definitely in both the NLS and Grassroots structures.  Options to determine the best forward for Cornish football certainly need looking at and given careful consideration.  I'm sure that will happen over the coming months.

[le boss]

On 28/07/2021 at 23:10, Devils@Dusk said:

Copied from Illogan's Facebook page (just in-case anyone doesn't do social media): https://www.facebook.com/illoganrblfc/

"It is with great disappointment and sadness that we announce the removal of our Reserve side from the Combination League with immediate effect.

After a recent committee meeting and conversations with the management, we have deemed it best to act now before the season has started. With no management for the Combination League side and some of the players choosing to step up into the first team, we have been left in a situation with a lack of players to fulfil 3 sides - leaving the club with this difficult decision.

Our new reserve side who will be playing in the Trelawny League have established themselves well within the club by bringing a mixture of experience and youth together however many of whom who did not wish to play in the Combination League. The club have deemed it best to remain with the Trelawny League and St Piran League with the intention to be competitive across the club with an aim of one day returning back to 3 teams once we are re-established and the pandemic is behind us.

We wish Wardy, Mikey, their management teams and the players the best of luck for the upcoming season."

 

Very clever to use the word "pandemic" as part of the reasons why a team has been withdrawn - allows you to walk straight back into the league in a couple of seasons without any questions asked. What really jumps out of the statement is "who did not wish to play in the Combination League" and "be competitive across the club" - where is their ambition? - the Combination League is not that much better than the Trelawney League - smacks of being big fish in a little sea.