PIRAN FILMS' HIGHLIGHTS OF ST BLAZEY V HELSTON ATHLETIC

[Piran]

Thanks to Gareth Davies for helping me out with an excellent commentary last night:

https://youtu.be/hTNVSOoqQlk

[le boss]

30 minutes ago, Piran said:

Thanks to Gareth Davies for helping me out with an excellent commentary last night:

https://youtu.be/hTNVSOoqQlk

Horrendous challenge by Giles and why didn’t the ref book the striker for simulation. Either there was contact or there wasn’t??!!??

[sportsman10]

Horrible disgusting challenge that. Should be getting a lot longer ban then a few games.  

[middle mans mate]

[Southwest football fan]

Should be banned for the season, no need for players like that in the league. Absolutely deliberate and disgusting 

[Yourhavingalaugh]

Terrible injury, really feel sorry for the player. It doesn’t surprise me who caused it, but on this occasion I think it’s a bit unfortunate (this will be an unpopular opinion) but Martin Giles always heads the ball with his elbows out. The Helston player was always arriving late for the header so caught the full force of the point of Gile’s elbow as he was coming down just after winning the headed. He had his elbows out really early. I might be wrong, but I can’t see any second movement from the elbow. Due to the damaged caused and the force of impact (dangerous play), I understand why he was sent off.

[sportsman10]

8 minutes ago, Yourhavingalaugh said:

Terrible injury, really feel sorry for the player. It doesn’t surprise me who caused it, but on this occasion I think it’s a bit unfortunate (this will be an unpopular opinion) but Martin Giles always heads the ball with his elbows out. The Helston player was always arriving late for the header so caught the full force of the point of Gile’s elbow as he was coming down just after winning the headed. He had his elbows out really early. I might be wrong, but I can’t see any second movement from the elbow. Due to the damaged caused and the force of impact (dangerous play), I understand why he was sent off.

He leads with his elbow when he sees a player coming in . No excuse what so ever for it. Playing the pretend hard man is the downfall . It’s there on video.  Needs a length ban for that .  State of that cut is horrendous 

[le boss]

7 minutes ago, Yourhavingalaugh said:

Terrible injury, really feel sorry for the player. It doesn’t surprise me who caused it, but on this occasion I think it’s a bit unfortunate (this will be an unpopular opinion) but Martin Giles always heads the ball with his elbows out. The Helston player was always arriving late for the header so caught the full force of the point of Gile’s elbow as he was coming down just after winning the headed. He had his elbows out really early. I might be wrong, but I can’t see any second movement from the elbow. Due to the damaged caused and the force of impact (dangerous play), I understand why he was sent off.

But by your reasoning the force of impact was due to the defender arriving late and not sure the seriousness of the injury has any bearing on the decision. I’ve known of broken limbs going unpunished because it was a clean and fair challenge. So therefore the Blazey boy should have gone unpunished. Be interesting if a ref would comment on whether the injury in isolation does have any bearing. 

[Yourhavingalaugh]

23 minutes ago, le boss said:

But by your reasoning the force of impact was due to the defender arriving late and not sure the seriousness of the injury has any bearing on the decision. I’ve known of broken limbs going unpunished because it was a clean and fair challenge. So therefore the Blazey boy should have gone unpunished. Be interesting if a ref would comment on whether the injury in isolation does have any bearing. 

Can’t disagree with all of the above, but it’s often the player jumping to head a ball from more or less a standing start is usually the one ends up in a worse state than the player running at pace to head the ball. The ref dealt with it well, didn’t panic, and made his decision as he sort fit.

[Chunkycheese]

Absolute rubbish. The Helston player has generated the force by running in 

 

To get off the ground the defender needs to use his arms. Unfortunate injury and wish him well in his recovery

Giler being smaller than average for a defender doesn’t help, but not malicious 

Yes he has a reputation for cards, but nothing there. Referee swayed by the sea of claret 

Would love to hear opinions of the referees view 

[rocky170267]

3 hours ago, Piran said:

Thanks to Gareth Davies for helping me out with an excellent commentary last night:

https://youtu.be/hTNVSOoqQlk

What a disgusting and inflammatory title, not clever and no need for it. 
Not the friendly club you perceive to be

[St Darren]

Great commentary.  Ten times better then Mr Massey doing it. 
 

well done Dan Bennett’s for saying the forward dived and it wasn’t a penalty.  Not sure why the player wasn’t booked in that case.  Hopefully the referee will be informed that he made a mistake there. 

[rocky170267]

3 hours ago, sportsman10 said:

Horrible disgusting challenge that. Should be getting a lot longer ban then a few games.  

Did you watch it ?? The player ran into his arm for gods sake. Giles eyes were on the ball the whole time

1 hour ago, Chunkycheese said:

Absolute rubbish. The Helston player has generated the force by running in 

 

To get off the ground the defender needs to use his arms. Unfortunate injury and wish him well in his recovery

Giler being smaller than average for a defender doesn’t help, but not malicious 

Yes he has a reputation for cards, but nothing there. Referee swayed by the sea of claret 

Would love to hear opinions of the referees view 

Absolutely as I saw it

[D K]

4 hours ago, Yourhavingalaugh said:

Terrible injury, really feel sorry for the player. It doesn’t surprise me who caused it, but on this occasion I think it’s a bit unfortunate (this will be an unpopular opinion) but Martin Giles always heads the ball with his elbows out. The Helston player was always arriving late for the header so caught the full force of the point of Gile’s elbow as he was coming down just after winning the headed. He had his elbows out really early. I might be wrong, but I can’t see any second movement from the elbow. Due to the damaged caused and the force of impact (dangerous play), I understand why he was sent off.

I agree with this. Martin was committed and earlier to the ball. The Helston lad was committed but a millisecond slower to the jump and sadly went up straight into the elbow that was already there. No deviation and both players had their eye on the ball. The video shows no signs of malice or deviation whatsoever and it is hellish unfortunate and we all hope for a speedy recovery for the lad, it’s a horrible cut. 

As for the simulation claim towards the Striker; Giles’ fist actually followed through with momentum in the air and his teammate got chinned in the follow through if you watch it closely. 
 

I do agree with the distasteful headline mind you. You open up your facilities and arrange availability for players and management for interviews to have that put out as a headline. Someone has let themselves down a bit in the pursuit of giving Mr Massey a smile it seems.

No wonder we have seen away teams turn their noses up to Helston filming before now if this is the portrayal of an otherwise good contest. Perhaps it could have been named “Elbow grease and hard work out plays the Fist full of dollars.” Would have had Massey choking on his Eggs Benedict then! 
 

If Giles gets sent for that, what of the Reuben Wilson elbow on Semmens in the first half? No one mentions that one which was an extended effort to land a blow, not a 50/50 duel!

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

12 hours ago, Chunkycheese said:

Absolute rubbish. The Helston player has generated the force by running in 

 

To get off the ground the defender needs to use his arms. Unfortunate injury and wish him well in his recovery

Giler being smaller than average for a defender doesn’t help, but not malicious 

Yes he has a reputation for cards, but nothing there. Referee swayed by the sea of claret 

Would love to hear opinions of the referees view 

It is a subjective decision made in the opinion of the referee. Therefore opinions may well differ amongst those in football, including between referees, and does not mean one view or the other is wrong, necessarily. 

The offence the referee has punished is serious foul play which is:

"A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses 
excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play."

My opinion: You would be hard pressed to convince me, with the injury that was sustained that the defenders safety was not endangered, so the question is was that by the action of the offender? Ultimately, the offender has taken a risk, leading with the arm in the way he has. I don't think that's a natural position for the arm to lead like that. Just go outside and pretend to jump for a header, or Google images player heading football and you'll see very few images of players in that silhouette leading with the arm.

Whilst eyes are on the ball, players do have peripheral vision so eyes on the ball is not mitigation. Players also have a responsibility to their opponents position and take care to avoid such collisions. And whether one thinks there is intent or not the laws are written in a way where the deliberateness of what happens is not a deciding factor.

A red card is a supportable decision. The referee is in a great position to see it, and his decision is his opinion within the framework of the laws and I personally would agree with the outcome. 

[Chunkycheese]

44 minutes ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

It is a subjective decision made in the opinion of the referee. Therefore opinions may well differ amongst those in football, including between referees, and does not mean one view or the other is wrong, necessarily. 

The offence the referee has punished is serious foul play which is:

"A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses 
excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play."

My opinion: You would be hard pressed to convince me, with the injury that was sustained that the defenders safety was not endangered, so the question is was that by the action of the offender? Ultimately, the offender has taken a risk, leading with the arm in the way he has. I don't think that's a natural position for the arm to lead like that. Just go outside and pretend to jump for a header, or Google images player heading football and you'll see very few images of players in that silhouette leading with the arm.

Whilst eyes are on the ball, players do have peripheral vision so eyes on the ball is not mitigation. Players also have a responsibility to their opponents position and take care to avoid such collisions. And whether one thinks there is intent or not the laws are written in a way where the deliberateness of what happens is not a deciding factor.

A red card is a supportable decision. The referee is in a great position to see it, and his decision is his opinion within the framework of the laws and I personally would agree with the outcome. 

Thanks for reply. Always find your points interesting 

Players always jump with the arms bent. One for leverage, two to help them jump higher. Have a look at their photos below (these are the top googled images for header in football) 

The force in this instance is created by the Helston player sprinting into a challenge that he has never going to win- the ball is two foot above his head and he hasn’t got off the floor 

Giler has had to make up a yard by jumping forward to meet the ball, so to some degree is leading with the elbow. 
 

Interesting point about intent, however it is a contact sport and players will always get hurt- whilst visually it is clear to see an injury here, I feel that judging cards based on snapshots of how bad an injury is could lead rise to play acting 

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

7 minutes ago, Chunkycheese said:

Thanks for reply. Always find your points interesting 

Players always jump with the arms bent. One for leverage, two to help them jump higher. Have a look at their photos below (these are the top googled images for header in football) 

So I get the mechanics of jumping... Obviously one uses the arms for leverage and that's acceptable in many many cases. 

Theres 1 very big difference between the images above from google and this one in that both arms are out and extended. In the images above the bent arms are usually held close in to the body (taking care not to clatter opponent directly with the elbow). 

I can see why,l the offender jumps like this, to maximise leverage, but that doesn't excuse the lack of attention to those around him. He even clatters his own team mate which to me would indicate a lack of control and awareness to his surroundings in his actions.

As I say this is an entirely subjective decision so I dont necessarily aim to change your's or anyone's opinion. But I think there is enough there, as did the referee to put this into the serious foul play category 

[Dave Deacon]

42 minutes ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

He even clatters his own team mate which to me would indicate a lack of control

It’s the ball isn’t it that knocks over his teammate?

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

7 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

It’s the ball isn’t it that knocks over his teammate?

Ha! So it is. My bad. 

[Footy follower]

18 hours ago, le boss said:

Horrendous challenge by Giles and why didn’t the ref book the striker for simulation. Either there was contact or there wasn’t??!!??

In full speed it didn't even look a foul but it in slow motion it does look a reckless elbow........nowhere near the worst swinging elbow I've seen but still reckless.

However....the injury should have no bearing on the punishment........would he have been even yellow carded if no injury?

I think the ref has dealt with it well and with back up of video is correct in his decision

15 hours ago, rocky170267 said:

What a disgusting and inflammatory title, not clever and no need for it. 
Not the friendly club you perceive to be

Yeh.... disgusting to mention the word elbow in a game where the main incident was a player being sent off for an elbow!!😏

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

1 minute ago, Footy follower said:

In full speed it didn't even look a foul but it in slow motion it does look a reckless elbow........nowhere near the worst swinging elbow I've seen but still reckless.

However....the injury should have no bearing on the punishment........would he have been even yellow carded if no injury?

I think the ref has dealt with it well and with back up of video is correct in his decision

Correct. We should never punish an offence based solely on outcome. Injuries in football are inevitable, and can occur in the most innocuous of challenges. 

That's not to say, however, that injuries can't help form a picture, or solidify the refs opinion, as to what has happened, and the severity. 

[Footy follower]

2 minutes ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

Correct. We should never punish an offence based solely on outcome. Injuries in football are inevitable, and can occur in the most innocuous of challenges. 

That's not to say, however, that injuries can't help form a picture, or solidify the refs opinion, as to what has happened, and the severity. 

I agree in part as the injury will at least prove,in this case,that contact was made

[Cornsish Pasty]

Looking at it in slow mo its without doubt intentional Ebow, nasty ugly challenge Hope The player has a speedy recovery. Helston lucky to grab 3 points , Blazey had more than enough chances to win

[Piran]

15 hours ago, rocky170267 said:

What a disgusting and inflammatory title, not clever and no need for it. 
Not the friendly club you perceive to be

Just a couple of observations I’d like to make in response to the above:

After spending 4-5 hours on the edit I obviously want as much exposure as possible on YouTube. One of the best ways of doing this is with the composition of the thumbnail ie - predominantly the images and the texts. One has to compose something which is  provocative and inviting but which is also true to the video. I don’t want click bait. Most of my 1.5k viewers are from “up country” and not supporters of the clubs I feature. 
 

Helston Athletic is my sole backer and I have been tasked to raise their profile. I am independent of the club and host the match highlights and interviews on my Piran Films YouTube channel, not the club’s.  I strive to tell the story of each game as I see it and create a balanced view of the game. 
 

By the way, I asked Matt Cusack for his opinion and he didn’t feel that the thumbnail was in poor taste or inflammatory. The video has produced some ground breaking comments between the match day official and fans. 

[sportsman10]

2 hours ago, Piran said:

Just a couple of observations I’d like to make in response to the above:

After spending 4-5 hours on the edit I obviously want as much exposure as possible on YouTube. One of the best ways of doing this is with the composition of the thumbnail ie - predominantly the images and the texts. One has to compose something which is  provocative and inviting but which is also true to the video. I don’t want click bait. Most of my 1.5k viewers are from “up country” and not supporters of the clubs I feature. 
 

Helston Athletic is my sole backer and I have been tasked to raise their profile. I am independent of the club and host the match highlights and interviews on my Piran Films YouTube channel, not the club’s.  I strive to tell the story of each game as I see it and create a balanced view of the game. 
 

By the way, I asked Matt Cusack for his opinion and he didn’t feel that the thumbnail was in poor taste or inflammatory. The video has produced some ground breaking comments between the match day official and fans. 

Not sure why you need to explain your self. 
it’s great to have a highlights package and it only offers to enhance the publicity for the leagues and teams.  Wish more clubs did it. 
 

[Chunkycheese]

5 hours ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

So I get the mechanics of jumping... Obviously one uses the arms for leverage and that's acceptable in many many cases. 

Theres 1 very big difference between the images above from google and this one in that both arms are out and extended. In the images above the bent arms are usually held close in to the body (taking care not to clatter opponent directly with the elbow). 

I can see why,l the offender jumps like this, to maximise leverage, but that doesn't excuse the lack of attention to those around him. He even clatters his own team mate which to me would indicate a lack of control and awareness to his surroundings in his actions.

As I say this is an entirely subjective decision so I dont necessarily aim to change your's or anyone's opinion. But I think there is enough there, as did the referee to put this into the serious foul play category 

i think the fact he is jumping backwards/side on also doesn’t help. Slightly off balance 

 

still believe that the player generates the force by charging at the ball and accidentally not running into the elbow 

 

I think people should be careful about calling players out on deliberately hurting people when clearly not the case! 
 

everything looks worse in slow motion 

 

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

21 minutes ago, Chunkycheese said:

 

I think people should be careful about calling players out on deliberately hurting people when clearly not the case! 
 

everything looks worse in slow motion 

 

Agreed on both counts.

I have deliberately (no pun) strayed away from suggesting intent as it is neither relevant to the outcome nor am I a psychic so who knows whether it was intentional or not. 

Point 2 is exactly why elite refs using VAR are only supposed to use slow motion for point of contact and full speed for everything else when reviewing a decision..

21 minutes ago, Chunkycheese said:

i think the fact he is jumping backwards/side on also doesn’t help. Slightly off balance 

Yes, ironically he has probably done that to protect himself from the opponents challenge, as well as leverage, but it's probably that which creates the endangerment of his opponent. 

[Sponge]

Just watched the highlights, looks like a good game and St Blazey certainly had enough chances to win the game.

 

I’ll be honest in real time I didn’t even notice the foul / contact that saw the nasty injury and red card. Until the slow motion clip where you can see the player does seem to lead with his arms / elbows. Tough one to call. Wish the injured player all the best.

[Al Bow]

I almost spat my cereal out when I saw this. He'd make a good pro wrestler. Can't believe someone would headbutt his elbow like that.

[FootballChat]

Yes players will naturally put their arms out for leverage and balance when jumping. 

However, if you instinctively put your arms out for balance, do you clench your fist?

Giler's right fist is clenched the entire time he's jumping for the header which indicates that he's anticipated the contact. Whether he's intended to do damage is another question but he certainly knew there was a high chance of contact. A clenched fist is a good indicator of force being added!

[silly billy]

I'm surprised someone hasn't tried saying that the ref was at fault and that's why the injury occurred.