Tavistock kicked out of the Vase !!!!

[THEMAGPIE]

Just read from an official statement that Tavistock have been kicked out of the Vase for fielding an ineligible player, a real shame as they had high hopes this season in this competition.

[Gary Hocking]

1 hour ago, THEMAGPIE said:

Just read from an official statement that Tavistock have been kicked out of the Vase for fielding an ineligible player, a real shame as they had high hopes this season in this competition.

Apparently Tavistock’s Daniel Koita played in Crediton’s first qualifying round match against Bodmin, so Brixham now get the home tie vs Clevedon. Seems remarkable to me that a player can forget that he’s already played in the same competition for another team - just a few weeks earlier - but it seems to happen all too regularly.

[RAPPO]

He scored in that game as well apparently 😂😂.  Unbelievable really 🤔😃⚽️

[Tractor Boy]

Unfortunate admin error it seems and didn't Saltash also get removed for something similar? Honest question as I don't know the answer and don't have a foot in either camp. Maybe an adminstator could answer. What happens to the winners prize money? Does it now go the club who have been reinstated who will have already had the losers money? If so Brixham are sitting pretty! If not, do Brixham return the losers money to the FA and get given the winners money and Tavistock end up with nothing? Just asking.    

[Philheybrookbay]

It’s a mix of a lot of things Tractor Boy. 
WL clubs are used to using Full time to put teams and scores in- something I don’t think the SWPL club secs do. That makes checking doubly hard especially hard, as thanks to data protection- you can only see your own club (rightly or wrongly). You can check Wholegame for players registered but not if they’ve played for another side even they’re dual or triple registered (think WL/SWPL/St Pirans).
 

What’s all the more/most galling is the raft of rules and regulations which the FA expect you to read, remember and use. The information on the FA Vase alone is nearly 100 sides of A4 with rules and it’s not cross referenced and even more confusingly over 4 or 5 separate booklets. Add in we are all volunteers and there’s a real lack of support from central HQ. 
 

I do feel for Tavistock. 

[Tractor Boy]

4 minutes ago, Philheybrookbay said:

It’s a mix of a lot of things Tractor Boy. 
WL clubs are used to using Full time to put teams and scores in- something I don’t think the SWPL club secs do. That makes checking doubly hard especially hard, as thanks to data protection- you can only see your own club (rightly or wrongly). You can check Wholegame for players registered but not if they’ve played for another side even they’re dual or triple registered (think WL/SWPL/St Pirans).
 

What’s all the more/most galling is the raft of rules and regulations which the FA expect you to read, remember and use. The information on the FA Vase alone is nearly 100 sides of A4 with rules and it’s not cross referenced and even more confusingly over 4 or 5 separate booklets. Add in we are all volunteers and there’s a real lack of support from central HQ. 
 

I do feel for Tavistock. 

Thankyou. An administators nightmare, I'm glad I'm not one. As a mere follower of non league football at various levels I've tried flogging through the rules and regs of which you speak and can understand how easy it is to accidentally get caught out. Multiple registrations and types of loans from professional clubs seem a bit of a minefield to me too. I expect the guru that is Phil Hiscox knows the answer to the financial implications. Still a tad strange that the young lad had forgotten/didn't know he had already played in the FAV. I also  quite fancied Tavistock to progress much further.   

[Jacob-Englefield1]

8 hours ago, THEMAGPIE said:

Just read from an official statement that Tavistock have been kicked out of the Vase for fielding an ineligible player, a real shame as they had high hopes this season in this competition.

Whilst I appreciate and know how hard it is to run the administrative side of things at a club, both the club and player have got to share some responsibility here. For starters, the player should've informed the club that he'd already played in previous rounds (you can't always expect the club to know that). If and when the player informs the club, they should then check to confirm his availability. I know these things happen. However, you can't help but also think they could quite easily be avoided.

[Dave Deacon]

2 hours ago, Philheybrookbay said:

It’s a mix of a lot of things Tractor Boy. 
WL clubs are used to using Full time to put teams and scores in- something I don’t think the SWPL club secs do. That makes checking doubly hard especially hard, as thanks to data protection- you can only see your own club (rightly or wrongly). You can check Wholegame for players registered but not if they’ve played for another side even they’re dual or triple registered (think WL/SWPL/St Pirans).
 

What’s all the more/most galling is the raft of rules and regulations which the FA expect you to read, remember and use. The information on the FA Vase alone is nearly 100 sides of A4 with rules and it’s not cross referenced and even more confusingly over 4 or 5 separate booklets. Add in we are all volunteers and there’s a real lack of support from central HQ. 
 

I do feel for Tavistock. 

Isn’t the first thing to do is ask the player? 

[Dave Deacon]

42 minutes ago, Keith B said:

expect him/her to tell the truth

Probably more a case of remembering!

[Ian Pethick]

1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said:

Probably more a case of remembering!

Not pointing a finger at the player in question, or any others, but suspect that many aren't sure what competition they are playing in. Especially at the start of the season when the games (in various cups) can come thick and fast.

[kevin richards]

10 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

Isn’t the first thing to do is ask the player? 

You know what players are like Dave, half of them can’t remember the last club they played against. They have no idea about rules & they certainly have no interest in what competition they have played in. I’ve had players turn up on a Saturday & ask ‘who we playing today’,  A fact I’m afraid 🤬🤬🤬

[Ian Pethick]

40 minutes ago, kevin richards said:

You know what players are like Dave, half of them can’t remember the last club they played against. They have no idea about rules & they certainly have no interest in what competition they have played in. I’ve had players turn up on a Saturday & ask ‘who we playing today’,  A fact I’m afraid 🤬🤬🤬

I have a suggestion. Most players seem to be covered in tattoo's these days, how about having one showing which competition (and date they have played it)? FA Vase 2021/22 on their arm (or anywhere else they fancy) would be a useful reminder. 😀

[The Observer__]

A good secretary wouldn’t allow these errors to happen. 

[kevin richards]

43 minutes ago, The Observer__ said:

A good secretary wouldn’t allow these errors to happen. 

A good secretary should be able to take the word of the idiot stood in front of him. !!!  🙄 Contradicting myself here aren’t I. 😂🤣

[le boss]

If a player is transferring from one club to another, then surely it wouldn,t take a great amount of effort to check who the previous club has played and if the individual played in any relevant match. In times of digital media it's just laziness. No sympathy really

[Foul Throw 3]

5 hours ago, Way Of The Park said:

I have a suggestion. Most players seem to be covered in tattoo's these days, how about having one showing which competition (and date they have played it)? FA Vase 2021/22 on their arm (or anywhere else they fancy) would be a useful reminder. 😀

I've seen that film. Memento with Guy Pearce. That's as confusing as being a football secretary!

[Ian Pethick]

30 minutes ago, Foul Throw 3 said:

I've seen that film. Memento with Guy Pearce. That's as confusing as being a football secretary!

😄😄😄

[kevin richards]

2 hours ago, le boss said:

If a player is transferring from one club to another, then surely it wouldn,t take a great amount of effort to check who the previous club has played and if the individual played in any relevant match. In times of digital media it's just laziness. No sympathy really

Thing is Bash, that these players can now sign for 5/6 different teams in different leagues, & a secretary has to approach every club when transferring a player. Now ask yourself how many players know that rule. !!! 

[Footy follower]

If the fa whole game is so good surely it should have a data base for each player or competition. 

When you sign a player you then simply put his name in or search the competition and it will tell you if he's played or not. 

Sounds simple with all the money they have. 

Not all players will know what competition they have played in.. Although they could probably have easily checked with previous club

[le boss]

1 hour ago, kevin richards said:

Thing is Bash, that these players can now sign for 5/6 different teams in different leagues, & a secretary has to approach every club when transferring a player. Now ask yourself how many players know that rule. !!! 

Accept what you are saying but any secretary worth his salt would surely make those checks, especially the higher you go and are involved in competitions that have prize money. Time to stop players signing for so many teams then - makes the lower leagues farcical when these so-called superstars turn up to play the odd game coz they like to play with their mates - but i guess that is another topic all together🤔

[Tractor Boy]

And still no definitive answer on where the prize money ends up. Probably back in the FA's trough.

 

[Philheybrookbay]

15 hours ago, le boss said:

If a player is transferring from one club to another, then surely it wouldn,t take a great amount of effort to check who the previous club has played and if the individual played in any relevant match. In times of digital media it's just laziness. No sympathy really

Just had a look at the club concerned from the preliminary round and guess what in the ‘times of digital media?’
 

Sheer ‘laziness’ on their part has led to them not putting the full squad out on either Twitter, Facebook, Bebo, MySpace, Rocket etc. And that’s just me being lazy looking. 

[Footy follower]

You would look to see if Crediton had played in the Fa vase whilst that player was at the club. 

Then, if they had, you would email that clubs secretary or the league secretary and say.... Did this player play in this match

[le boss]

7 minutes ago, Footy follower said:

You would look to see if Crediton had played in the Fa vase whilst that player was at the club. 

Then, if they had, you would email that clubs secretary or the league secretary and say.... Did this player play in this match

Wow - that looks like common sense right there!!!

[Ian Pethick]

14 hours ago, Tractor Boy said:

And still no definitive answer on where the prize money ends up. Probably back in the FA's trough.

 

To pay for blazers and Prince William's FA related expenses.

[Blues Chairman]

On 25/11/2021 at 21:54, Philheybrookbay said:

 

What’s all the more/most galling is the raft of rules and regulations which the FA expect you to read, remember and use. The information on the FA Vase alone is nearly 100 sides of A4 with rules and it’s not cross referenced and even more confusingly over 4 or 5 separate booklets. Add in we are all volunteers and there’s a real lack of support from central HQ. 

 

100 pages of A4 - slight exaggeration here.

Copy of FA Vase rules attached, I count a total of just 26 pages.

Just to add the FA also send out an e-mail communication to all clubs left in a competition, in the week leading up to a match, reminding all to be clear of the competition rules, in particular those surrounding player qualification. They even state, if any club is in doubt of any rule, to call them prior to a match for clarification. Personally cannot see how the FA can make it any clearer than that.         

rules-of-the-fa-challenge-vase-2021-22.pdf

[John Mead]

Mistakes happen.

Every year.

People learn from mistakes.

We're human.

I don't think blaming and shaming is in anyway helpful and changes nothing.

[The Observer__]

5 hours ago, Blues Chairman said:

100 pages of A4 - slight exaggeration here.

Copy of FA Vase rules attached, I count a total of just 26 pages.

Just to add the FA also send out an e-mail communication to all clubs left in a competition, in the week leading up to a match, reminding all to be clear of the competition rules, in particular those surrounding player qualification. They even state, if any club is in doubt of any rule, to call them prior to a match for clarification. Personally cannot see how the FA can make it any clearer than that.         

rules-of-the-fa-challenge-vase-2021-22.pdf

Thats that then. The blues chairman has spoken.  

[mattelot]

On 27/11/2021 at 19:54, The Observer__ said:

Thats that then. The blues chairman has spoken.  

Pity there's not a 26 page document about how to not be knocked out of the vase by supposedly lesser opposition ! 👍😁🤣😂