Question for the ref

[Fish]

A question for all the refs out there, (not a moan but a question)

yesterday at Wendron with the scores 0-0 our forward went through and was tugged back just outside the box, the ref shouted play on (as forward seemed to have got away from the defender) got inside box and the defender pulled him back again. The referee blew and said free kick outside the box for first offence. The players asked for the penalty as second offence was inside, but referee said as an advantage you take it back to first offence. Not a sending off as a covering defender, so my learn was about the advantage v a penalty.

As I said not a moan but if correct you learn something new everyday.

other people’s thoughts?

P.S a very good game overall at Wendron with a last second goal making the score line 3-1 to Wendron who are a good young side and a fantastic strike by Tyler Oliver on the final whistle made the score line slightly distorted. Ref had a good game as well.

[BryJayLew]

Penalise the most serious offence. First offence outside the box, but if it continued into the area then a yellow card and a penalty should be given.

[baldy]

Personal opinion. Firstly, “professional fouls” anywhere on the pitch should be a red card. The covering defender scenario is a pile of crap. Whose to say that defender would have stopped the attacker and if it is deemed he would, why make the foul in the first place? Total cop out by FIFA. 
Secondly, the scenario as presented should be a pen. What’s the point of playing advantage if you don’t make use of it. If that is the law, then the defender has free reign to do what he likes to stop the goal. I think the lawmakers need some lessons in logic.

[fenman]

Have you ever watched a Marx Brothers film  ( 1940's era  A night at the opera , Duck Soup etc.) Baldy ? The scriptwriters went on to become F.I.F.A. rule makers .

[B Manning]

Yellow card and penalty.

[JonColenzo]

6 hours ago, BryJayLew said:

Penalise the most serious offence. First offence outside the box, but if it continued into the area then a yellow card and a penalty should be given.

Here’s one for you Bry, is a penalty in the premier league still a penalty in lower leagues, as in, are there any differing rules?

[BryJayLew]

16 minutes ago, JonColenzo said:

Here’s one for you Bry, is a penalty in the premier league still a penalty in lower leagues, as in, are there any differing rules?

Jon there does seem to be a lot of different laws in Premier League games haha! 😂

[FootballChat]

Laws specifically state that if a holding offences starts outside the area but continues into the penalty area then a penalty kick should be awarded.

You say a covering defender was there so that might rule out a red card for DOGSO but it should be a minimum of a yellow for interfering by with a promising attack.

 

Aidan is a lovely young man and promising young referee, hopefully he’ll learn from that and get it right next time. Good to hear he had a good game otherwise though.

[Jeremy Wade]

On 10/04/2022 at 17:24, B Manning said:

Yellow card and penalty.

isn't a pushing/pulling offence inside the box a red card not a yellow?

JW

[bighairydave]

4 minutes ago, Jeremy Wade said:

isn't a pushing/pulling offence inside the box a red card not a yellow?

JW

Not if it’s for just a pulling offence. Only Red if it is denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity.

[Jeremy Wade]

30 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

Not if it’s for just a pulling offence. Only Red if it is denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity.

Thanks Dave

JW

[John Davies]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Wade said:

isn't a pushing/pulling offence inside the box a red card not a yellow?

JW

You’re right Jeremy. It’s a red if there’s no ‘geniune attempt to play the ball’.

Pulling a player isn’t attempting to win the ball, so would be a red card and a penalty.

[bighairydave]

2 hours ago, John Davies said:

You’re right Jeremy. It’s a red if there’s no ‘geniune attempt to play the ball’.

Pulling a player isn’t attempting to win the ball, so would be a red card and a penalty.

Only if it’s DOGSO though. Not just any pull in area.

[Dave Deacon]

Had to remind myself what DOGSO stands for: Denial of an Obvious Goal-scoring Opportunity.

[Referee]

Penalty

[fenman]

Jon Colenso , in answer to your question about Premiership rules I have it from a good source within the F.A.  that there is a difference . As I mentioned on another post on this forum there are several  rules that could be enforced  i.e. holding , pushing in the penalty area or introduced i.e. sin bin for dissent  but won't be because the backers of the Premiership ( television companies  world wide ) don't want them  and the upper levels of football are now regarded as entertainment rather than sport .Having said that Saturday night television is regarded  as entertainment  by a few poor souls .

Personally having watched a few Premiership games on t.v.  boredom rather than entertainment  springs to mind .

Saw a few swallows today Older , spring must be arriving .

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Not here yet Fenman,  easterly wind keeping the temperature down here at the moment. 

[Robin Tucker]

It would depend if the referee sees an offence in the penalty area. (Spectators, managers, players may think theres a further offence, but maybe not the referee)

If there is an offence, then you then give the penalty - the attacking team has the advantage from the foul outside the area, by getting a penalty for foul inside the area.

If no offence in the area, and referee deems there is no advantage to be gained (ie loses control of the ball, etc) then pull game back for direct free kick.

Always risky to play advantage for offences in the penalty area - but a wise referee will always use his couple of seconds reaction time to see if the ball goes into the goal, before blowing whistle for penalty.

[The Town Man]

20 hours ago, fenman said:

 

Personally having watched a few Premiership games on t.v.  boredom rather than entertainment  springs to mind .

 

Agree with you there Fenman.  Can't ever get my head around why anyone would choose to stay in and watch a game on TV involving clubs hundreds of miles away that they generally have no regular direct contact with etc. when you could go and actually attend a real match played by real people that you may even know and can connect with!

You can't beat being there!

[FootballChat]

3 hours ago, Robin Tucker said:

It would depend if the referee sees an offence in the penalty area. (Spectators, managers, players may think theres a further offence, but maybe not the referee)

If there is an offence, then you then give the penalty - the attacking team has the advantage from the foul outside the area, by getting a penalty for foul inside the area.

If no offence in the area, and referee deems there is no advantage to be gained (ie loses control of the ball, etc) then pull game back for direct free kick.

Always risky to play advantage for offences in the penalty area - but a wise referee will always use his couple of seconds reaction time to see if the ball goes into the goal, before blowing whistle for penalty.

As per your decisions on the line or in the middle, this makes little sense.

[Robin Tucker]

19 hours ago, FootballChat said:

As per your decisions on the line or in the middle, this makes little sense.

To qualify that, how many times in the last 2 years have you actually seen me referee?

 

Maybe my wording above needs to be simplified if it makes no sense!

 

[FootballChat]

1 hour ago, Robin Tucker said:

To qualify that, how many times in the last 2 years have you actually seen me referee?

Once was enough. Painful to say the least.

[Robin Tucker]

6 minutes ago, FootballChat said:

Once was enough. Painful to say the least.

would be interesting to know which game, as in the last 2 years i've only refereed 2 of my son's games as a parent when no referee was there, as i retired from refereeing games in January 2020

 

 

1 minute ago, Robin Tucker said:

would be interesting to know which game, as in the last 2 years i've only refereed 2 of my son's games as a parent when no referee was there, as i retired from refereeing games in January 2020

 

 

I have done about 20 lines since then, to help the county out over the last 2 seasons.

But if I'm that bad, maybe I should retire completely, so you have one less person to criticise online hiding behind a pseudonym.

That should help the referee shortage!

 

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

Couple of things for consideration here:

Advantage. The referee plays advantage where there is a benefit to the non-offending team. 

The referee should bring play back if the advantage doesn't accrue within a few seconds. 

The law says if a holding offence starts outside the area, and continues into the penalty area a penalty kick is awarded. (note: the foul starts outside and continues into is effectively playing advantage)

The opinion of this referee is, as described, foul outside, advantage played, a secondary foul occurs inside the penalty area referee should punish the 2nd foul and award a penalty kick as the advantage accrued into a more promising attacking situation. 

This is all on the basis that the referee did indeed believe the contact in the area to be a foul. If he believed no foul then he certainly would have been within his rights to bring the play back to the original foul outside the penalty area. 

All decisions are made in the opinion of the referee within the framework of the Laws (law 5.)

 

 

[Robin Tucker]

On 28/04/2022 at 10:43, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

Couple of things for consideration here:

Advantage. The referee plays advantage where there is a benefit to the non-offending team. 

The referee should bring play back if the advantage doesn't accrue within a few seconds. 

The law says if a holding offence starts outside the area, and continues into the penalty area a penalty kick is awarded. (note: the foul starts outside and continues into is effectively playing advantage)

The opinion of this referee is, as described, foul outside, advantage played, a secondary foul occurs inside the penalty area referee should punish the 2nd foul and award a penalty kick as the advantage accrued into a more promising attacking situation. 

This is all on the basis that the referee did indeed believe the contact in the area to be a foul. If he believed no foul then he certainly would have been within his rights to bring the play back to the original foul outside the penalty area. 

All decisions are made in the opinion of the referee within the framework of the Laws (law 5.)

 

 

This is what I meant - just worded better