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Dave Deacon

Trelawny League - Saturday October 21st 2017

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1 minute ago, Clubman said:

Sijames, get a life, there is no rule/law which states that a result stands after 70 mins. If you don't know the correct procedure don't comment. ****.

Oy! Come off it Clubman. If folk who didn't know the right procedure couldn't post, the forum would be much poorer for it. And I, for one would be banned‼️No cheers for that last statement please‼️

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13 minutes ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Oy! Come off it Clubman. If folk who didn't know the right procedure couldn't post, the forum would be much poorer for it. And I, for one would be banned‼️No cheers for that last statement please‼️

Trouble is some people make comments to deliberately stir the shit, regardless of the facts. Sijames falls into that category. Has an opinion on everything but probably won't want to devote time and energy into improving the game for everyone.

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1 hour ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Thank you for your opinion Zebedee, perhaps you'd be kind enough to give us your assessment of the regulations as you understand them.

 

1 hour ago, Themanhimself said:

No problem mate we are all human :)

iv. In the event of a match not being played or abandoned owing to causes over which neither Club has control, it should be played in its entirety on a date to be mutually agreed by the two Clubs and approved by the Management Committee. Failing such agreement and notification to the Fixtures Secretary within 14 days the Management Committee shall have power to order the match to be played on a named date or on or before a given date. Where it is to the advantage of the Competition and the Clubs involved agree, the Management Committee shall also be empowered to order the score at the time of an abandonment to stand. The Rules governing postponements are at Rule 10f(vii) below. 

v. 

The Management Committee shall review all matches abandoned in cases where it is consequent upon the conduct of either or both Teams. Where it is to the advantage of the Competition and does no injustice to either Club, the Management Committee shall be empowered to order the score at the time of the abandonment to stand. In all cases where the Management Committee are satisfied that a match was abandoned owing to the conduct of one team or its Club member(s) they shall be empowered to award the points for the match to the opponent. In cases where a match has been abandoned owing to the conduct of both teams or their Club member(s), the Management Committee shall rule all points for the match as void. No fine(s) can be applied by the Management Committee for an abandoned match. 

 

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1 hour ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Thanks for clearing that up for us Zebedee. Saves us consulting an expert!

 

3 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

 

iv. In the event of a match not being played or abandoned owing to causes over which neither Club has control, it should be played in its entirety on a date to be mutually agreed by the two Clubs and approved by the Management Committee. Failing such agreement and notification to the Fixtures Secretary within 14 days the Management Committee shall have power to order the match to be played on a named date or on or before a given date. Where it is to the advantage of the Competition and the Clubs involved agree, the Management Committee shall also be empowered to order the score at the time of an abandonment to stand. The Rules governing postponements are at Rule 10f(vii) below. 

v. 

The Management Committee shall review all matches abandoned in cases where it is consequent upon the conduct of either or both Teams. Where it is to the advantage of the Competition and does no injustice to either Club, the Management Committee shall be empowered to order the score at the time of the abandonment to stand. In all cases where the Management Committee are satisfied that a match was abandoned owing to the conduct of one team or its Club member(s) they shall be empowered to award the points for the match to the opponent. In cases where a match has been abandoned owing to the conduct of both teams or their Club member(s), the Management Committee shall rule all points for the match as void. No fine(s) can be applied by the Management Committee for an abandoned match. 

 

Hmmmm, perhaps consulting an expert was the best call!

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1 minute ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

 

Hmmmm, perhaps consulting an expert was the best call!

An expert has stated the correct procedure, someone who is in the know and has more experience of administration than most people that post on here.

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Games have to be two equal halves. It doesn't matter what time the game is abondoned, the match must be replayed. Even if abondoned in the 89th minute. 

We had a fixture abondoned on 83mins last year which was replayed. 

Dont know where the 75th minute urban myth came from. 

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14 hours ago, B Manning said:

I am on the Isles of Scilly at the mo , it is blowing a hoolie difficult to even stand upright let alone play a game of football and the forecast is for the winds to increase to 63 mph at lunchtime.

Enjoy your break Paul.

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15 hours ago, B_D said:

It is ultimately up to the referee. He (and the teams) should be commended for trying to get the game played. It’s unfortunate but it is one of those things.

Because this game was abandoned due to reasons that neither team had control of, it will go to a Management Committee vote to decide the outcome, a date should be mutually agreed by the clubs to then play the game which is then confirmed by the committee. More often than not, it will be almost certainly be replayed. Rule 10 of our League Rules answer of all these questions.

I’m not too sure where the 70/75 minute myth comes from but it is common “knowledge” that the result stands after a certain amount of time... Unfortunately that is not the case. For this game, the score was 3-0 at 66 minutes. Who’s to say that the losing side couldn’t pull the game back and take the win for themselves? Certainly not impossible.

On a positive note, well done to all teams that were able to get their games played today. Fantastic effort considering the recent weather. The more games we get played in these coming months, the less evening games get scheduled in April and May.

Thank you mate. The game was 2 completely different games of football. First half was awful with the wind against you And 2nd the roles were reversed and penryn had far more possession. Hopefully a date can be arranged

 

Tom 

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The 70 minute rule people are thinking of is a minimum but only if there is 2 equal halves. So you could have 2 halves of 35 minutes (which we had earlier in the season against Stithians). This has to be agreed by the ref and both teams before the game starts (obviously). 

In yesterdays case as they probably played the first half as normal 45 minutes the game would not have been finalised if it had reached 70 it would have needed to go the full 90 or it is to be replayed regardless of score. 

It doesn't have to be 35 or 45 agreed as long as both halves are agreed as the same but a minimum of 35 each way gives you the 70 which everyone seems to have heard of. 

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56 minutes ago, feedtheshak said:

The 70 minute rule people are thinking of is a minimum but only if there is 2 equal halves. So you could have 2 halves of 35 minutes (which we had earlier in the season against Stithians). This has to be agreed by the ref and both teams before the game starts (obviously). 

In yesterdays case as they probably played the first half as normal 45 minutes the game would not have been finalised if it had reached 70 it would have needed to go the full 90 or it is to be replayed regardless of score. 

It doesn't have to be 35 or 45 agreed as long as both halves are agreed as the same but a minimum of 35 each way gives you the 70 which everyone seems to have heard of. 

Not far off.  The minimum is 60 mins as per Rule10b(v):

'All matches outside of the NLS shall have duration of 90 minutes unless a shorter time (not less than sixty (60) minutes) is mutually arranged by the two Clubs in consultation with the referee prior to the commencement of the match, and in any event shall be of equal halves.'

10f as quoted by Bighairydave above covers abandonments.

And of course all of this has been done to death in previous seasons if anybody wishes to dig out the old posts or, even more radically, read the League Rules (https://resources.thefa.com/images/ftimages/data/league3983534/40593.pdf) before posting.

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5 minutes ago, zebedee said:

You really do need a long holiday Steve 😆

We clearly need our experts Zebedee and should cherish them, otherwise you and I, along with most of the rest of the forum, would go on spouting utter trash. Not that I have ever let a little thing like the truth stop me from spouting on 'till my hearts content‼️👨‍🎓 📖

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On 21/10/2017 at 09:36, MARKSY said:

😂😂behave tempo not a chance it’s all coming at 12 Brian,  the rain, even my mother can’t stop this and she’s a witch she’d come straight off her broomstick🤣

Quite a lot of games were on Marksy 😉

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Just to add this into the mix of things, if the game technically didnt happen as i assume the goals scored by Halsetown will not count towards the players season tallies, nor the goals conceded to Penryn's stats, how can the points be awarded to Penryn for Halsetown playing an ineligible player? when they technically didnt 'play' anyone as the 'result' didnt happen? i quote below from the FA Full Time League website, i was also under the impression points dont get awarded to the opposition if this scenario happens as per the Holmans v Illogan case in the Combo league?:-

'Premier

Note: Abandoned (65 mins - weather). Points awarded to Penryn (ineligible player)'

 

 


 

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8 minutes ago, Postman Pat said:

Because the game was started and both teams had to produce a team sheet irrespective of completion or not

i understand that, but the game wont be recorded as being played so how can they 'play' an ineligible player?

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18 minutes ago, Sijames said:

Just to add this into the mix of things, if the game technically didnt happen as i assume the goals scored by Halsetown will not count towards the players season tallies, nor the goals conceded to Penryn's stats, how can the points be awarded to Penryn for Halsetown playing an ineligible player? when they technically didnt 'play' anyone as the 'result' didnt happen? i quote below from the FA Full Time League website, i was also under the impression points dont get awarded to the opposition if this scenario happens as per the Holmans v Illogan case in the Combo league?:-

'Premier

Note: Abandoned (65 mins - weather). Points awarded to Penryn (ineligible player)'

 

 


 

Who was it said "football is a simple game"!

1 minute ago, Sijames said:

i understand that, but the game wont be recorded as being played so how can they 'play' an ineligible player?

Isn't it the same with cards? Even though a game might not get finished and has to be played again, don't the cards shown to any players still stand?

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@Sijames, the fact of the matter is... The game was played. It was abandoned due to no fault of either team which is why a replay was highly likely subject to Managament Committee approval.

Unfortunately for Halsetown, they unintentionally and unknowingly fielded a player (registered on the day) who was actually registered at another club in the League. For whatever reason, the player didn't mention this fact to the Halsetown management team and as a result, rules were breached. Because of this infringement, the game is classed as played (so it is not re-scheduled), the stats all remain (cards, goals etc) but the points are awarded to the non-offending team, in this case, Penryn Athletic. Again, please feel free to have a look at Trelawny League Rule 8 to familiarise yourself with the process. Everything that we do is always in accordance with League Rules, so rest assured that it is all correct.

This is why I am not a  fan of registering players before the game. There is no easy way of checking the players eligibility (unless names are emailed to me the day before to check). Clubs take this risk upon themselves when using this registration method. This is now the third time this has happened this season - I am pretty sure that it will not be the last time.

On 24/10/2017 at 10:25, Dave Deacon said:

Isn't it the same with cards? Even though a game might not get finished and has to be played again, don't the cards shown to any players still stand?

Correct. 

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2 hours ago, Sijames said:

i understand that, but the game wont be recorded as being played so how can they 'play' an ineligible player?

 

2 hours ago, B_D said:

@Sijames, the fact of the matter is... The game was played. It was abandoned due to no fault of either team which is why a replay was highly likely subject to Managament Committee approval.

Unfortunately for Halsetown, they unintentionally and unknowingly fielded a player (registered on the day) who was actually registered at another club in the League. For whatever reason, the player didn't mention this fact to the Halsetown management team and as a result, rules were breached. Because of this infringement, the game is classed as played (so it is not re-scheduled), the stats all remain (cards, goals etc) but the points are awarded to the non-offending team, in this case, Penryn Athletic. Again, please feel free to have a look at Trelawny League Rule 8 to familiarise yourself with the process. Everything that we do is always in accordance with League Rules, so rest assured that it is all correct.

This is why I am not a  fan of registering players before the game. There is no easy way of checking the players eligibility (unless names are emailed to me the day before to check). Clubs take this risk upon themselves when using this registration method. This is now the third time this has happened this season - I am pretty sure that it will not be the last time.

Correct. 

Page 15- Rule 8o for those who want to look.

I imagine Rule 10f iv/v also allows the managemeng committee to award the game to Penryn.

 

 

On another rule 8p do you receive the written permission for those players of school age from headmasters @B_D?

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1 hour ago, bighairydave said:

 

Page 15- Rule 8o for those who want to look.

I imagine Rule 10f iv/v also allows the managemeng committee to award the game to Penryn.

 

 

On another rule 8p do you receive the written permission for those players of school age from headmasters @B_D?

As our league is Open Aged (16 and above), if the children are in Full Time Education and are required to play in a competition match, a letter must be received from the school to allow for the time off.

To clarify: it's the clubs that have to seek the permission from the headmaster.

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14 minutes ago, B_D said:

As our league is Open Aged (16 and above), if the children are in Full Time Education and are required to play in a competition match, a letter must be received from the school to allow for the time off.

So this, I presume, only has to happen if the game, or necessary travel to it, occurs during normal school hours.

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1 hour ago, B_D said:

As our league is Open Aged (16 and above), if the children are in Full Time Education and are required to play in a competition match, a letter must be received from the school to allow for the time off.

 

1 hour ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

So this, I presume, only has to happen if the game, or necessary travel to it, occurs during normal school hours.

Just for clarity, it's the clubs that have to seek permission of the headmaster concerned in these circumstances.  There are of course possible clashes for evening matches and I had one occasion when managing where one of my players played in a school match on a Saturday morning and the head wasn't happy for him to play again in the afternoon.  Normally it's a formality but it's one of those FA Rules where the club welfare officers come into their own.

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1 hour ago, Sijames said:

what about the points being awarded though? as i mentioned Illogan recently played an ineligible player v Holmans, but no points awarded to Holmans why is this?

That’s the Combo League... they will run their league how they want to run it. I don’t know what happened in this situation and to be honest it is none of my business.

Our rules are pretty clear on this matter:

8.o.i

Any Club found to have played an ineligible Player in a match or matches shall have any points gained from that match or matches deducted from its record, up to a maximum of 12 points, and have levied upon it a fine.  The Management Committee may also order that such match or matches be replayed on such terms as are decided by the Management Committee which may also levy penalty points against the Club in default.  Breaches of this Rule in a cup competition where the tie is won shall result in removal from the competition of the offending team and a fine in accordance with the Fines Tariff.  The losing team shall also be reinstated in the competition.  If the tie is lost the Club shall be fined in accordance with the Fines Tariff. 

 

Looking on the Combo website, they have this exact ruling in place (which is taken from the FA’s Standardised Rules). 

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I repeat once again

"Combo Rule 8(O)  

Any Club found to have played an ineligible Player in a match or matches shall have any points gained from that match or matches deducted from its record, up to a maximum of 12 points, and have levied upon it a fine. The Management Committee may also order that such match or matches be replayed on such terms as are decided by the Management Committee which may also levy penalty points against the Club in default. 

The Management Committee may vary this decision in respect of the points gained only in circumstances where the ineligibility is due to the failure to obtain an International Transfer Certificate or where the ineligibility is related to the Player’s status.    

In exceptional circumstances the Management Committee may, at its discretion, award the points available in the match in question to the opponents, subject to the match not being ordered to be replayed."

My personal answer

This was an ORDINARY League match. If it was, perhaps, a Championship decider it might make a difference to the League's decision but The Combination League did not award points to the team that lost the game in this instance. Please go back through the seasons and you will find teams have only been awarded points if their game was never played due to their opponents not being able to raise a side.

Last comment from me on the subject as it is getting a little tedious now. 

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On 24/10/2017 at 10:25, Sijames said:

i understand that, but the game wont be recorded as being played so how can they 'play' an ineligible player?

Because the offence was committed in an official league game.does not matter that it was abandoned

 

Sorry Sijames not following thread before replying

 

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1 hour ago, cornishteddyboy said:

I repeat once again

"Combo Rule 8(O)  

Any Club found to have played an ineligible Player in a match or matches shall have any points gained from that match or matches deducted from its record, up to a maximum of 12 points, and have levied upon it a fine. The Management Committee may also order that such match or matches be replayed on such terms as are decided by the Management Committee which may also levy penalty points against the Club in default. 

The Management Committee may vary this decision in respect of the points gained only in circumstances where the ineligibility is due to the failure to obtain an International Transfer Certificate or where the ineligibility is related to the Player’s status.    

In exceptional circumstances the Management Committee may, at its discretion, award the points available in the match in question to the opponents, subject to the match not being ordered to be replayed."

My personal answer

This was an ORDINARY League match. If it was, perhaps, a Championship decider it might make a difference to the League's decision but The Combination League did not award points to the team that lost the game in this instance. Please go back through the seasons and you will find teams have only been awarded points if their game was never played due to their opponents not being able to raise a side.

Last comment from me on the subject as it is getting a little tedious now. 

@cornishteddyboy my issue is, the Halsetown v Penryn game was an 'Ordinary' match was it not? exactly the same offence happened, i.e playing an ineligible player, yet one league awards points to the opposition and the other doesnt even though these are Rules / Laws governed by the FA? quoting @B_D 'Looking on the Combo website, they have this exact ruling in place (which is taken from the FA’s Standardised Rules). ' It seems to me that rather than adhering to the FA Standardised Rules its more of an opinion based decision which differs between the Combo & Trelawny league, even though they should both be doing the same in this situation?! i know others have rightly mentioned about the management committee  making some decisions but because you have a different group of people sitting on the Combo one and the Trelawny one they seem to have come up with different decisions, which should never be the case espeically when the powers that sit in the FA have directed something else? 

i cant for the life of me work out how the Combo can decide one thing, and the Trelawny another? when its EXACTLY the same offence? how on earth someone from Holmans or Halsetown haven't picked up on this and questioned it is beyond me!

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22 hours ago, Sijames said:

@cornishteddyboy my issue is, the Halsetown v Penryn game was an 'Ordinary' match was it not? exactly the same offence happened, i.e playing an ineligible player, yet one league awards points to the opposition and the other doesnt even though these are Rules / Laws governed by the FA? quoting @B_D 'Looking on the Combo website, they have this exact ruling in place (which is taken from the FA’s Standardised Rules). ' It seems to me that rather than adhering to the FA Standardised Rules its more of an opinion based decision which differs between the Combo & Trelawny league, even though they should both be doing the same in this situation?! i know others have rightly mentioned about the management committee  making some decisions but because you have a different group of people sitting on the Combo one and the Trelawny one they seem to have come up with different decisions, which should never be the case espeically when the powers that sit in the FA have directed something else? 

i cant for the life of me work out how the Combo can decide one thing, and the Trelawny another? when its EXACTLY the same offence? how on earth someone from Holmans or Halsetown haven't picked up on this and questioned it is beyond me!

The Combination League obviously found that there weren't "exceptional circumstances" evident when this went to Committee. That is down to the Combination League though, not us. We are two different Leagues and of course, will operate within our own rules, despite both League's rules originating from the Standardised Rules (which can be amended by the Leagues (member clubs) at an AGM or/and SGM with FA approval). What they decide to do is up to them. I certainly won't be dragged into a debate of "they did this, you did that".

A player, who knew he was registered to another club in the League, signed registration forms for Halsetown and then played for said club in a competitive fixture without bringing it to the attention of his management team. It was an unfortunate one for Halsetown as a Club because they have been charged in accordance with Rule 8o (loss of points and a fine) for something which they were unaware of - however, if they had contacted me before the game to ask whether this player was registered elsewhere before they signed him on, this could have been avoided. This is recommended practice that I put on the clubs (and most do contact me beforehand) - send me the player details before you register them (and play them) and I'll let you know whether they are eligible. 

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1 hour ago, Sijames said:

@cornishteddyboy my issue is, the Halsetown v Penryn game was an 'Ordinary' match was it not? exactly the same offence happened, i.e playing an ineligible player, yet one league awards points to the opposition and the other doesnt even though these are Rules / Laws governed by the FA? quoting @B_D 'Looking on the Combo website, they have this exact ruling in place (which is taken from the FA’s Standardised Rules). ' It seems to me that rather than adhering to the FA Standardised Rules its more of an opinion based decision which differs between the Combo & Trelawny league, even though they should both be doing the same in this situation?! i know others have rightly mentioned about the management committee  making some decisions but because you have a different group of people sitting on the Combo one and the Trelawny one they seem to have come up with different decisions, which should never be the case espeically when the powers that sit in the FA have directed something else? 

i cant for the life of me work out how the Combo can decide one thing, and the Trelawny another? when its EXACTLY the same offence? how on earth someone from Holmans or Halsetown haven't picked up on this and questioned it is beyond me!

The 'exceptional circumstances' phrase is a relatively new change to the Standard Code Of Rules.  The Trelawny League have always acted in this way in response to these sort of offences and when the change came in given that the term means 'unusual and not likely to happen very often' took the decision to carry on as before.  Pro-rata the number of offences of this type is tiny so meeting the definition.

What the Combination League do is entirely their decision.

I agree with CTB - tedium is now setting in!

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farcical explanations!

16 hours ago, B_D said:

The Combination League obviously found that there were "exceptional circumstances" evident when this went to Committee. That is down to the Combination League though, not us. We are two different Leagues and of course, will operate within our own rules, despite both League's rules originating from the Standardised Rules (which can be amended by the Leagues (member clubs) at an AGM or/and SGM with FA approval). What they decide to do is up to them. I certainly won't be dragged into a debate of "they did this, you did that".

The Trelawny League Managment Committee did not find any "exceptional circumstances" in this instance. A player, who knew he was registered to another club in the League, signed registration forms for Halsetown and then played for said club in a competitive fixture without bringing it to the attention of his management team. This is not an "exceptional circumstance". It was an unfortunate one for Halsetown as a Club because they have been charged in accordance with Rule 8o (loss of points and a fine) for something which they were unaware of - however, if they had contacted me before the game to ask whether this player was registered elsewhere before they signed him on, this could have been avoided. This is recommended practice that I put on the clubs (and most do contact me beforehand) - send me the player details before you register them (and play them) and I'll let you know whether they are eligible. 

if the highlighted section of what you said is correct, why award the points to Penryn then? these discrepancies need to be looked at by the county FA / FA as it clearly isnt currently being done in the correct manner.

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Agreeably, I haven't explained it very well at all judging by your response; so, I will again highlight what Steve has said: The 'exceptional circumstances' phrase is a relatively new change to the Standard Code Of Rules.  The Trelawny League have always acted in this way in response to these sort of offences and when the change came in given that the term means 'unusual and not likely to happen very often' took the decision to carry on as before.  Pro-rata the number of offences of this type is tiny so meeting the definition.

When responding yesterday, I was very busy in work and so wasn't giving my full attention to this thread. I since have corrected my post to reflect the decision made by the Trelawny League and to avoid confusion, which revolves around the "exceptional circumstance" wording (I've removed that part). I am still new to this role and I continue learning (this was the first time this has happened where a team has won), but rest assured that both Leagues have acted in accordance with their own rules. We do things differently, yes probably. But that is down to the individual League Management. 

5 hours ago, Sijames said:

if the highlighted section of what you said is correct, why award the points to Penryn then? these discrepancies need to be looked at by the county FA / FA as it clearly isnt currently being done in the correct manner.

There was a discrepancy on my part when explaining on this thread. There are no discrepancies with how we operate or what we do as a League. We class the offences as being rare (which they are) which is why we award the points to the non-offending side. In my understanding, it's how the League has always operated. 

On that note, I apologise for the confusion caused. I got a little bit confused with the Combination side of things when I had no idea what had happened, mix that with a busy afternoon in work. Easy mistake to make. We do class these events as an "exceptional circumstance" based on the rarity as Steve explained which is why we award the game to the opposition.... The difference being, Steve understands these rules a hell of alot better than I do and can explain them alot better - which is why I have him on speed dial! The text that you highlighted was incorrect on my part - a minor moment of confusion set in; and that is why a Committee make these decisions and not just me ;) 

Just to reiterate the fact we work on the “exceptional circumstances” part of our rules, I quote from the top of my confusing post “The Combination League obviously found that there weren't "exceptional circumstances" evident when this went to Committee” I’m not entirely sure why I typed “did not” and “not” in the part you picked up on, when this wording is the one we use (8o.iii) when it goes to a committee decision. Next time, I will read my posts before submitting.

Just bare in mind that when we make these decisions, the member clubs have a chance to appeal that decision within 7 days.

 

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It's my understanding that it's due to the rarity of the occurance. We've had one other case [of an ineligible player] this season - that was due to the player playing whilst he was suspended. It doesn't happen very often. 

The other thing that the awarding of points does in this situation is to act as a deterrent because one game could possibly be worth [in hindsight] six points to the opponent. 

The difference between both leagues is their interpretation of that term "exceptional circumstance". Neither League has been  incorrect in how they've dealt with the individual occurances. Both have acted in line with our individual rules and the Standard Code of Rules. 

Unfortunately, the rubbish part of my role in the Trelawny League is that I have to enforce these rules, sometimes when I don't even want to (because I know the implications it can have on the club's). Unfortunately though, the rules are there for a reason and have to be followed and enforced. The fact I send weekly reminders to clubs who are on track to breach rules (a kick up the bum) hopefully puts that into perspective. 

It is the club's that have the say on rule changes though; we will be emailing all the club's by the end of February to see if there are any rule change proposals for the 18/19 season so if you are involved with a club and you have a rule change proposal, get it to us.

We act fairly and always offer the club's the chance to appeal. To my knowledge, our enforcement of this rule has not been appealed in many seasons.

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Mr Bartlam I appreciate your replies and honesty. But, yes I'm sorry, I think if you are completely honest with yourself I find it hard to believe that once I stated the same incident happened in the combo as the trelawny league you didn't think to yourself a little bit....'how do we have different outcomes'? Although you state it's rare, the combo being only 1 division and then the 5 trelawny divisions I find it hard to believe that on average these 'rare' incidents haven't happened in or around the same amount of times over recent seasons.

i am not a member of either Holmans or Halsetown, but purely looking at the decisions made by individuals who collectively make up a management committee, and then the FA rules on this subject, along with the comparisons from both games irrespective of their leagues makes me wonder if someone is just hoping this would of got swept under the table. As the current discisions even though it's the same offfence are clearly wrong, and justice has not been served what so ever by the 'management committee'!

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34 minutes ago, Sijames said:

I think if you are completely honest with yourself I find it hard to believe that once I stated the same incident happened in the combo as the trelawny league you didn't think to yourself a little bit....'how do we have different outcomes'?

You are right, I did wonder this - I was straight on the phone this morning to a few people just getting their input as to why the two League's have different outcomes. It just boils down to interpretation and management of the ruling. Both League's are well within their rights to dock points (always happens), but they are both also well within their rights to award the points to the opposition - again I add the point that this should be acting as a deterrent.

Again, I will stick with one of my personable traits of being honest - I feel for the teams like Halsetown that have inadvertently and unintentionally fielded an ineligible player. That was reiterated in my phone call and email to the Halsetown Secretary when I contacted him informing the club what had happened. Whilst the outcome for them was not the desirable one, I know now that this team (and those that are now aware of the situation), will contact me prior to registering a player on the day to check whether the player is eligible to play - I've already received three such requests since this subject came to light on the forum.

We have a committee meeting before I deploy in a few weeks, this will be spoken about.

The thing that we all have to bare in mind is that this has (to my knowledge) always been the way that the Trelawny League has dealt with this offence. I don't think that any Club has ever raised a concern about the outcome. I think that one of the main reasons this occurrence is rare is down to the fact that the Clubs know the outcome. It acts as a deterrent.

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11 hours ago, Sijames said:

I find it hard to believe that on average these 'rare' incidents haven't happened in or around the same amount of times over recent seasons.

Broadly speaking they do and the outcome has been the same in every case.  Despite what you may think they are rare and when you look at player registration issues last season they were pretty typical i.e. 4 dual registration players played and 4 unregistered players played.  There were a further 4 player eligibility type offences. In all cases where the offending club had won the match it was awarded to the opposition.  When this is put against a backdrop of @2500 registrations and over 950 league and cup matches these cases are clearly the exception.

11 hours ago, Sijames said:

makes me wonder if someone is just hoping this would of got swept under the table.

Not at all.  Although I'm now only a VP I have been invited to attend meetings whilst I'm still around and nothing has changed.  The Rules and any interpretation of them, as in this case, are and have always been consistently applied.  We don't do secrets!

12 hours ago, Sijames said:

As the current discisions even though it's the same offfence are clearly wrong, and justice has not been served what so ever by the 'management committee'!

Not wrong, just different application in different leagues; CTB makes an excellent point above for example.  As long as each of those leagues acts consistently for any given set of circumstances then everyone in that league knows where they stand.

Anyway, enough from me on this, this is a results thread after all.  Lets see what tomorrow's games bring.:mellow:

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Before the FA added the words " in exceptional circumstances" to the rule, the Combo League used to award points to a non-offending, losing team. I would say that there would need to be something "out of the ordinary" to be classed as an "exceptional circumstance", so, for example, if the unregistered or ineligible player had scored the goal or goals that resulted in victory, he would have had a direct - rather than indirect - influence upon the result. Similarly, if he was a keeper and saved 3 penalties!

In my book, something which happens infrequently doesn't make it exceptional.

I sit on both Management Committees and am fine about each having different interpretations, both of which are correct, as long as they apply them consistently.

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