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Dave Deacon

Trelawny League - Saturday October 21st 2017

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Perranwell 1-1 Hayle

Perranwell missed a host of chances in the second half. Should have been 3 or 4 even after the Hayle goalie made some great saves. the pitch was awful, the only thing worse than the pitch was the referee.

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17 minutes ago, zebedee said:

If you have played 45 mins first half yes it's 90 .

All abandoned games are decided on by the League committee , NOT by time played !

.....and that is FACT not like your fiction Si ! 

Now hat wasn't to hard was it?! 😂 If you'd said that first time around you'd saved a fair few posts what's the matter with these no it alls on here being so secretive about what they actually know! I'll now ask that question, why bother going out after half time in this fixture? Surly the previous 45 minutes would of painted a picture of what was to come in the 2nd half, either one or the other for me he should of played the full 90 or called it a day at HT!

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You started the rubbish ....like you always do ? 

Just leave decision making to the League involved in future .

Nobody is interested in yours !

A decision on what happens to this game will be made at our next Committee meeting on Nov 8th .

Clubs involved will be informed that night !

Matter closed 👀

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1 hour ago, Sijames said:

Now hat wasn't to hard was it?! 😂 If you'd said that first time around you'd saved a fair few posts what's the matter with these no it alls on here being so secretive about what they actually know! I'll now ask that question, why bother going out after half time in this fixture? Surly the previous 45 minutes would of painted a picture of what was to come in the 2nd half, either one or the other for me he should of played the full 90 or called it a day at HT!

It is ultimately up to the referee. He (and the teams) should be commended for trying to get the game played. It’s unfortunate but it is one of those things.

Because this game was abandoned due to reasons that neither team had control of, it will go to a Management Committee vote to decide the outcome, a date should be mutually agreed by the clubs to then play the game which is then confirmed by the committee. More often than not, it will be almost certainly be replayed. Rule 10 of our League Rules answer of all these questions.

I’m not too sure where the 70/75 minute myth comes from but it is common “knowledge” that the result stands after a certain amount of time... Unfortunately that is not the case. For this game, the score was 3-0 at 66 minutes. Who’s to say that the losing side couldn’t pull the game back and take the win for themselves? Certainly not impossible.

On a positive note, well done to all teams that were able to get their games played today. Fantastic effort considering the recent weather. The more games we get played in these coming months, the less evening games get scheduled in April and May.

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1 hour ago, Sijames said:

Ridiculous!! Another 6 minutes and the result could of stood to save a midweek Apr replay!

Sijames, get a life, there is no rule/law which states that a result stands after 70 mins. If you don't know the correct procedure don't comment. ****.

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1 minute ago, Clubman said:

Sijames, get a life, there is no rule/law which states that a result stands after 70 mins. If you don't know the correct procedure don't comment. ****.

Oy! Come off it Clubman. If folk who didn't know the right procedure couldn't post, the forum would be much poorer for it. And I, for one would be banned‼️No cheers for that last statement please‼️

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13 minutes ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Oy! Come off it Clubman. If folk who didn't know the right procedure couldn't post, the forum would be much poorer for it. And I, for one would be banned‼️No cheers for that last statement please‼️

Trouble is some people make comments to deliberately stir the shit, regardless of the facts. Sijames falls into that category. Has an opinion on everything but probably won't want to devote time and energy into improving the game for everyone.

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1 hour ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Thank you for your opinion Zebedee, perhaps you'd be kind enough to give us your assessment of the regulations as you understand them.

 

1 hour ago, Themanhimself said:

No problem mate we are all human :)

iv. In the event of a match not being played or abandoned owing to causes over which neither Club has control, it should be played in its entirety on a date to be mutually agreed by the two Clubs and approved by the Management Committee. Failing such agreement and notification to the Fixtures Secretary within 14 days the Management Committee shall have power to order the match to be played on a named date or on or before a given date. Where it is to the advantage of the Competition and the Clubs involved agree, the Management Committee shall also be empowered to order the score at the time of an abandonment to stand. The Rules governing postponements are at Rule 10f(vii) below. 

v. 

The Management Committee shall review all matches abandoned in cases where it is consequent upon the conduct of either or both Teams. Where it is to the advantage of the Competition and does no injustice to either Club, the Management Committee shall be empowered to order the score at the time of the abandonment to stand. In all cases where the Management Committee are satisfied that a match was abandoned owing to the conduct of one team or its Club member(s) they shall be empowered to award the points for the match to the opponent. In cases where a match has been abandoned owing to the conduct of both teams or their Club member(s), the Management Committee shall rule all points for the match as void. No fine(s) can be applied by the Management Committee for an abandoned match. 

 

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1 hour ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Thanks for clearing that up for us Zebedee. Saves us consulting an expert!

 

3 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

 

iv. In the event of a match not being played or abandoned owing to causes over which neither Club has control, it should be played in its entirety on a date to be mutually agreed by the two Clubs and approved by the Management Committee. Failing such agreement and notification to the Fixtures Secretary within 14 days the Management Committee shall have power to order the match to be played on a named date or on or before a given date. Where it is to the advantage of the Competition and the Clubs involved agree, the Management Committee shall also be empowered to order the score at the time of an abandonment to stand. The Rules governing postponements are at Rule 10f(vii) below. 

v. 

The Management Committee shall review all matches abandoned in cases where it is consequent upon the conduct of either or both Teams. Where it is to the advantage of the Competition and does no injustice to either Club, the Management Committee shall be empowered to order the score at the time of the abandonment to stand. In all cases where the Management Committee are satisfied that a match was abandoned owing to the conduct of one team or its Club member(s) they shall be empowered to award the points for the match to the opponent. In cases where a match has been abandoned owing to the conduct of both teams or their Club member(s), the Management Committee shall rule all points for the match as void. No fine(s) can be applied by the Management Committee for an abandoned match. 

 

Hmmmm, perhaps consulting an expert was the best call!

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1 minute ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

 

Hmmmm, perhaps consulting an expert was the best call!

An expert has stated the correct procedure, someone who is in the know and has more experience of administration than most people that post on here.

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Games have to be two equal halves. It doesn't matter what time the game is abondoned, the match must be replayed. Even if abondoned in the 89th minute. 

We had a fixture abondoned on 83mins last year which was replayed. 

Dont know where the 75th minute urban myth came from. 

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4 hours ago, Themanhimself said:

11 minutes you mean as my understanding is 75 minutes for result to stand 

No such rule, game of two equal halves as laid down in the laws of football

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14 hours ago, B Manning said:

I am on the Isles of Scilly at the mo , it is blowing a hoolie difficult to even stand upright let alone play a game of football and the forecast is for the winds to increase to 63 mph at lunchtime.

Enjoy your break Paul.

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15 hours ago, B_D said:

It is ultimately up to the referee. He (and the teams) should be commended for trying to get the game played. It’s unfortunate but it is one of those things.

Because this game was abandoned due to reasons that neither team had control of, it will go to a Management Committee vote to decide the outcome, a date should be mutually agreed by the clubs to then play the game which is then confirmed by the committee. More often than not, it will be almost certainly be replayed. Rule 10 of our League Rules answer of all these questions.

I’m not too sure where the 70/75 minute myth comes from but it is common “knowledge” that the result stands after a certain amount of time... Unfortunately that is not the case. For this game, the score was 3-0 at 66 minutes. Who’s to say that the losing side couldn’t pull the game back and take the win for themselves? Certainly not impossible.

On a positive note, well done to all teams that were able to get their games played today. Fantastic effort considering the recent weather. The more games we get played in these coming months, the less evening games get scheduled in April and May.

Thank you mate. The game was 2 completely different games of football. First half was awful with the wind against you And 2nd the roles were reversed and penryn had far more possession. Hopefully a date can be arranged

 

Tom 

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The 70 minute rule people are thinking of is a minimum but only if there is 2 equal halves. So you could have 2 halves of 35 minutes (which we had earlier in the season against Stithians). This has to be agreed by the ref and both teams before the game starts (obviously). 

In yesterdays case as they probably played the first half as normal 45 minutes the game would not have been finalised if it had reached 70 it would have needed to go the full 90 or it is to be replayed regardless of score. 

It doesn't have to be 35 or 45 agreed as long as both halves are agreed as the same but a minimum of 35 each way gives you the 70 which everyone seems to have heard of. 

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56 minutes ago, feedtheshak said:

The 70 minute rule people are thinking of is a minimum but only if there is 2 equal halves. So you could have 2 halves of 35 minutes (which we had earlier in the season against Stithians). This has to be agreed by the ref and both teams before the game starts (obviously). 

In yesterdays case as they probably played the first half as normal 45 minutes the game would not have been finalised if it had reached 70 it would have needed to go the full 90 or it is to be replayed regardless of score. 

It doesn't have to be 35 or 45 agreed as long as both halves are agreed as the same but a minimum of 35 each way gives you the 70 which everyone seems to have heard of. 

Not far off.  The minimum is 60 mins as per Rule10b(v):

'All matches outside of the NLS shall have duration of 90 minutes unless a shorter time (not less than sixty (60) minutes) is mutually arranged by the two Clubs in consultation with the referee prior to the commencement of the match, and in any event shall be of equal halves.'

10f as quoted by Bighairydave above covers abandonments.

And of course all of this has been done to death in previous seasons if anybody wishes to dig out the old posts or, even more radically, read the League Rules (https://resources.thefa.com/images/ftimages/data/league3983534/40593.pdf) before posting.

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5 minutes ago, zebedee said:

You really do need a long holiday Steve 😆

We clearly need our experts Zebedee and should cherish them, otherwise you and I, along with most of the rest of the forum, would go on spouting utter trash. Not that I have ever let a little thing like the truth stop me from spouting on 'till my hearts content‼️👨‍🎓 📖

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On 21/10/2017 at 09:36, MARKSY said:

😂😂behave tempo not a chance it’s all coming at 12 Brian,  the rain, even my mother can’t stop this and she’s a witch she’d come straight off her broomstick🤣

Quite a lot of games were on Marksy 😉

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Just to add this into the mix of things, if the game technically didnt happen as i assume the goals scored by Halsetown will not count towards the players season tallies, nor the goals conceded to Penryn's stats, how can the points be awarded to Penryn for Halsetown playing an ineligible player? when they technically didnt 'play' anyone as the 'result' didnt happen? i quote below from the FA Full Time League website, i was also under the impression points dont get awarded to the opposition if this scenario happens as per the Holmans v Illogan case in the Combo league?:-

'Premier

Note: Abandoned (65 mins - weather). Points awarded to Penryn (ineligible player)'

 

 


 

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8 minutes ago, Postman Pat said:

Because the game was started and both teams had to produce a team sheet irrespective of completion or not

i understand that, but the game wont be recorded as being played so how can they 'play' an ineligible player?

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18 minutes ago, Sijames said:

Just to add this into the mix of things, if the game technically didnt happen as i assume the goals scored by Halsetown will not count towards the players season tallies, nor the goals conceded to Penryn's stats, how can the points be awarded to Penryn for Halsetown playing an ineligible player? when they technically didnt 'play' anyone as the 'result' didnt happen? i quote below from the FA Full Time League website, i was also under the impression points dont get awarded to the opposition if this scenario happens as per the Holmans v Illogan case in the Combo league?:-

'Premier

Note: Abandoned (65 mins - weather). Points awarded to Penryn (ineligible player)'

 

 


 

Who was it said "football is a simple game"!

1 minute ago, Sijames said:

i understand that, but the game wont be recorded as being played so how can they 'play' an ineligible player?

Isn't it the same with cards? Even though a game might not get finished and has to be played again, don't the cards shown to any players still stand?

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@Sijames, the fact of the matter is... The game was played. It was abandoned due to no fault of either team which is why a replay was highly likely subject to Managament Committee approval.

Unfortunately for Halsetown, they unintentionally and unknowingly fielded a player (registered on the day) who was actually registered at another club in the League. For whatever reason, the player didn't mention this fact to the Halsetown management team and as a result, rules were breached. Because of this infringement, the game is classed as played (so it is not re-scheduled), the stats all remain (cards, goals etc) but the points are awarded to the non-offending team, in this case, Penryn Athletic. Again, please feel free to have a look at Trelawny League Rule 8 to familiarise yourself with the process. Everything that we do is always in accordance with League Rules, so rest assured that it is all correct.

This is why I am not a  fan of registering players before the game. There is no easy way of checking the players eligibility (unless names are emailed to me the day before to check). Clubs take this risk upon themselves when using this registration method. This is now the third time this has happened this season - I am pretty sure that it will not be the last time.

On 24/10/2017 at 10:25, Dave Deacon said:

Isn't it the same with cards? Even though a game might not get finished and has to be played again, don't the cards shown to any players still stand?

Correct. 

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2 hours ago, Sijames said:

i understand that, but the game wont be recorded as being played so how can they 'play' an ineligible player?

 

2 hours ago, B_D said:

@Sijames, the fact of the matter is... The game was played. It was abandoned due to no fault of either team which is why a replay was highly likely subject to Managament Committee approval.

Unfortunately for Halsetown, they unintentionally and unknowingly fielded a player (registered on the day) who was actually registered at another club in the League. For whatever reason, the player didn't mention this fact to the Halsetown management team and as a result, rules were breached. Because of this infringement, the game is classed as played (so it is not re-scheduled), the stats all remain (cards, goals etc) but the points are awarded to the non-offending team, in this case, Penryn Athletic. Again, please feel free to have a look at Trelawny League Rule 8 to familiarise yourself with the process. Everything that we do is always in accordance with League Rules, so rest assured that it is all correct.

This is why I am not a  fan of registering players before the game. There is no easy way of checking the players eligibility (unless names are emailed to me the day before to check). Clubs take this risk upon themselves when using this registration method. This is now the third time this has happened this season - I am pretty sure that it will not be the last time.

Correct. 

Page 15- Rule 8o for those who want to look.

I imagine Rule 10f iv/v also allows the managemeng committee to award the game to Penryn.

 

 

On another rule 8p do you receive the written permission for those players of school age from headmasters @B_D?

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1 hour ago, bighairydave said:

 

Page 15- Rule 8o for those who want to look.

I imagine Rule 10f iv/v also allows the managemeng committee to award the game to Penryn.

 

 

On another rule 8p do you receive the written permission for those players of school age from headmasters @B_D?

As our league is Open Aged (16 and above), if the children are in Full Time Education and are required to play in a competition match, a letter must be received from the school to allow for the time off.

To clarify: it's the clubs that have to seek the permission from the headmaster.

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14 minutes ago, B_D said:

As our league is Open Aged (16 and above), if the children are in Full Time Education and are required to play in a competition match, a letter must be received from the school to allow for the time off.

So this, I presume, only has to happen if the game, or necessary travel to it, occurs during normal school hours.

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1 hour ago, B_D said:

As our league is Open Aged (16 and above), if the children are in Full Time Education and are required to play in a competition match, a letter must be received from the school to allow for the time off.

 

1 hour ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

So this, I presume, only has to happen if the game, or necessary travel to it, occurs during normal school hours.

Just for clarity, it's the clubs that have to seek permission of the headmaster concerned in these circumstances.  There are of course possible clashes for evening matches and I had one occasion when managing where one of my players played in a school match on a Saturday morning and the head wasn't happy for him to play again in the afternoon.  Normally it's a formality but it's one of those FA Rules where the club welfare officers come into their own.

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1 hour ago, Sijames said:

what about the points being awarded though? as i mentioned Illogan recently played an ineligible player v Holmans, but no points awarded to Holmans why is this?

That’s the Combo League... they will run their league how they want to run it. I don’t know what happened in this situation and to be honest it is none of my business.

Our rules are pretty clear on this matter:

8.o.i

Any Club found to have played an ineligible Player in a match or matches shall have any points gained from that match or matches deducted from its record, up to a maximum of 12 points, and have levied upon it a fine.  The Management Committee may also order that such match or matches be replayed on such terms as are decided by the Management Committee which may also levy penalty points against the Club in default.  Breaches of this Rule in a cup competition where the tie is won shall result in removal from the competition of the offending team and a fine in accordance with the Fines Tariff.  The losing team shall also be reinstated in the competition.  If the tie is lost the Club shall be fined in accordance with the Fines Tariff. 

 

Looking on the Combo website, they have this exact ruling in place (which is taken from the FA’s Standardised Rules). 

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