Referees in the Premier league.

[fenman]

St. Darren , Wolves , by all accounts were poor against Luton but again your specialised subject reared it's head when Luton were given a penalty that went against all the interpretation of hand ball . If the ball ricochets  off a part of the body i.e. the foot , and strikes the players hand it is not deemed handball .

[fenman]

A copy of a journalist's report of Luton , Wolves from Express and Star . 

Possibly the journalist is a relation of St. Darren , he certainly doesn't mince his words .

ny team that salvages something from an away fixture after a red card deserves some credit; and Wolves certainly improved considerably after the interval. Not least because a semblance of basic organisation seemed to be in operation. The players belatedly understood the responsibilities of their specific roles, defended competently and with some sense of purpose.

What we were seeking to achieve prior to half-time is anyone’s guess. Other than the fact that Wolves didn’t lose the game and bar the consolation that it could have been worse, there is little positive to take from this trip. But once again, the theatre of the absurd took to centre stage.

The latest recruit to the hapless breed of incompetent adjudicators quickly made his mark and VAR yet again made Judge Jeffreys seem like an excessive libertarian. The mere sight of the three officials warming up pitch-side prior to games raises the hackles. Sponsored designer training gear, gadding about shamelessly, a smug, preening triumvirate with their choreography of mincing short sprints and shuttle runs basking in their mantra of self-importance and infallibility.

Swigging Isotonic sports drinks, the preserve of high- performance athletes which their imaginations perceive themselves to be. Don’t they just love themselves? And wow! a quick acknowledgement from a Premier League superstar who might be practising nearby feeds the ego fit to burst. Hope Sly or TNT cameras caught that one! See that whopping FIFA Referee badge on my aero-dynamic shirt? That spells elite! What an absolute façade.

Incomparable poseurs, and given the events at Kenilworth Road haplessly oblivious to their own instructions and directives. They are an absolute shower and the increase in their ghastly profile in recent seasons is a blight on the game.

 

[Jeremy Wade]

17 minutes ago, fenman said:

A copy of a journalist's report of Luton , Wolves from Express and Star . 

Possibly the journalist is a relation of St. Darren , he certainly doesn't mince his words .

ny team that salvages something from an away fixture after a red card deserves some credit; and Wolves certainly improved considerably after the interval. Not least because a semblance of basic organisation seemed to be in operation. The players belatedly understood the responsibilities of their specific roles, defended competently and with some sense of purpose.

What we were seeking to achieve prior to half-time is anyone’s guess. Other than the fact that Wolves didn’t lose the game and bar the consolation that it could have been worse, there is little positive to take from this trip. But once again, the theatre of the absurd took to centre stage.

The latest recruit to the hapless breed of incompetent adjudicators quickly made his mark and VAR yet again made Judge Jeffreys seem like an excessive libertarian. The mere sight of the three officials warming up pitch-side prior to games raises the hackles. Sponsored designer training gear, gadding about shamelessly, a smug, preening triumvirate with their choreography of mincing short sprints and shuttle runs basking in their mantra of self-importance and infallibility.

Swigging Isotonic sports drinks, the preserve of high- performance athletes which their imaginations perceive themselves to be. Don’t they just love themselves? And wow! a quick acknowledgement from a Premier League superstar who might be practising nearby feeds the ego fit to burst. Hope Sly or TNT cameras caught that one! See that whopping FIFA Referee badge on my aero-dynamic shirt? That spells elite! What an absolute façade.

Incomparable poseurs, and given the events at Kenilworth Road haplessly oblivious to their own instructions and directives. They are an absolute shower and the increase in their ghastly profile in recent seasons is a blight on the game.

 

A referee is the Sport equivalent of a Health & Safety Officer.

NOT ONE person will fully agree with every decision, Everyman & his dog will talk about & say "that wouldn't have happened back in my day", "they haven't got a clue", "ruining it for everyone"

Yet very few will step up and take it on themselves.

JW

[St Darren]

That’s brilliant Fenman. Honestly, all of them are poor. It’s also the law makers who don’t help. 
 

but when you have VAR who literally have an eternity to view a law book, look at something 20 times and still get it wrong is just mad.  The inconsistency is just baffling. 
 

the referees are now also getting in ‘in the way’ of passing lines as well.  Anthony Taylor used to be the worst for it whenever I watched Liverpool, constantly in the way. 
 

all of them, *****!

[fenman]

I totally agree with you Jeremy , however football fans are a peculiar species , generally speaking they are easily moved to mass hysteria , and many are blinkered  and biased to their own club  and overlook the teams shortcomings as regards discipline  and abilities .

In their eyes all referees and linespersons are biased against their team . Some of the best comedy shows on the radio today are the phone ins after a game .The majority of the fans  are better than the manager at tactics and team selection and all would make better officials .What makes it more amusing to me is that I know some of the callers on Radio Norfolk after a Norwich game and none of them played the  game yet they know more than the manager .

Going back to the Wolves game I think the fanatical section of the Wolves fan feel hard done by  with the penalty decision against them in the Manchester United game and another one on Saturday  that ignored all the guidelines set out by the F.A.  , they see it as 3 points possibly lost , 3 points that could be important as things are at the bottom .

As a Wolves fan I can see their point and I agree with them BUT if Wolves get relegated for the sake of one of those refereeing decisions  I'll still have to pay my rates  and save money to fund my grandsons motorcycle racing but many fans don't see it like that , to them it's the end of the world .

[fenman]

Interesting developments with Barcelona St. Darren 

[St Darren]

4 hours ago, fenman said:

Interesting developments with Barcelona St. Darren 

It shouldn’t come as a surprise. I wonder what it’s like in Italy 

[fenman]

I'll be honest with you Darren when some people suggested that  there could be corruption within the referees organisation I thought " utter nonsense " ( for the sake of younger readers I was like ) . However I am , along with many people beginning to have my doubts .

My father once told me that people who earnt very little were generally happy with what they had , but many people who earnt a lot wanted even more at any cost  even by reverting to illegal means . From my experience of life 60 odd years after he told me , I have realised that he was right .

Keith B will probably agree with me from his experience of life 

[Jeremy Wade]

On 25/09/2023 at 16:35, fenman said:

I totally agree with you Jeremy , however football fans are a peculiar species , generally speaking they are easily moved to mass hysteria , and many are blinkered  and biased to their own club  and overlook the teams shortcomings as regards discipline  and abilities .

In their eyes all referees and linespersons are biased against their team . Some of the best comedy shows on the radio today are the phone ins after a game .The majority of the fans  are better than the manager at tactics and team selection and all would make better officials .What makes it more amusing to me is that I know some of the callers on Radio Norfolk after a Norwich game and none of them played the  game yet they know more than the manager .

Going back to the Wolves game I think the fanatical section of the Wolves fan feel hard done by  with the penalty decision against them in the Manchester United game and another one on Saturday  that ignored all the guidelines set out by the F.A.  , they see it as 3 points possibly lost , 3 points that could be important as things are at the bottom .

As a Wolves fan I can see their point and I agree with them BUT if Wolves get relegated for the sake of one of those refereeing decisions  I'll still have to pay my rates  and save money to fund my grandsons motorcycle racing but many fans don't see it like that , to them it's the end of the world .

I see your point to a degree, although the main issue is with IFAB who create the "laws"

IFAB butchered several "laws" when VAR was introduced to accommodate it and to attempt to help make video decisions easier, but quick frankly f**ked it up.  "Laws" are updated or emended every year:

I feel Club officials/managers/players & fans, have the duty to be up to date with the "laws" and many if not most aren't.  This is evident in most news paper articles and post match punditry or in bars up and down the country at 17:00.

 

IF, Wolves were to be relegated one decision made over the course of a 38 game season would be the definition of "clutching at straws" 😆

JW

[St Darren]

Incoming……

[St Darren]

I honestly don’t know where to start with the sheer incompetence of the refereeing and VAR tonight in the Spurs v Liverpool game. 
 

I’ve  no issue with Jotas sending off by the way.  It looked like he tripped him in the first tackle and ref only has one look.  

[St Darren]

And now I’ve just seen the offside debacle. 
 

 

[St Darren]

Wow, this is a serious issue. 
 

As I said time and time again.  They’re awful. 

[Dave Deacon]

[St Darren]

24 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

How can they get something factual wrong. 

[St Darren]

So basically The VAR said Check complete. Thinking that the goal was awarded on field. 
 

you honestly couldn’t make it up

[Dave Deacon]

1 hour ago, St Darren said:

Check complete.

It's unbelievable that they don't say "Check complete, offside" or "Check complete, goal" etc etc! So simple isn't it!

[St Darren]

18 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

It's unbelievable that they don't say "Check complete, offside" or "Check complete, goal" etc etc! So simple isn't it!

You’d have thought so, but they are so adamant that they do a good job and don’t accept any criticism it’s poor.  
 

Van Dijk got an extra game for swearing at an official. Is it any wonder when they have to deal with this incompetence every week. 

there’s no way out of it for this one so will be interesting to see what the long term decisions are

[Dave Deacon]

1 minute ago, St Darren said:

Van Dijk got an extra game for swearing at an official.

Although to be fair a player of his experience should know not to do that!

[St Darren]

30 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Although to be fair a player of his experience should know not to do that!

Agreed. But you can’t blame him for shouting at a referee. If only there was consistency and other players got the same punishment. 

[bighairydave]

5 hours ago, St Darren said:

You’d have thought so, but they are so adamant that they do a good job and don’t accept any criticism it’s poor.  
 

Van Dijk got an extra game for swearing at an official. Is it any wonder when they have to deal with this incompetence every week. 

there’s no way out of it for this one so will be interesting to see what the long term decisions are

Van dijk was a clear red card though, and if he got away with that then what chance would be have at grassroots level.

 

In all, I thought Simon Hooper had a pretty solid game, VAR worked how it should for the Jones red, but was really let down for the offside.

[St Darren]

30 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

Van dijk was a clear red card though, and if he got away with that then what chance would be have at grassroots level.

 

In all, I thought Simon Hooper had a pretty solid game, VAR worked how it should for the Jones red, but was really let down for the offside.

VAR didn’t really need to interfere as Hooper thought it was a yellow. That’s about opinions. No problem with that. 
 

But the referees when they become VAR just turn into complete incompetent officials. 

[SON OF LINEKER]

I see on Sky Sports that Liverpool are considering 'all available action' over the dis-allowed goal.

Hopefully common sense and ultimately fairness will out and Liverpool are at least awarded a point for the game which is what the result would've been had the goal stood.

Can you imagine if this impacts the league title in May,your list of winners could read like this :

2021-22   Manchester City

2022-23  Manchester City

2023-24  VAR  !!

Obviously although it's impossible for VAR to win the league every point counts,especially  when your up against the machine that is Man City.

' Up The Town '

 

[Dave Deacon]

10 hours ago, SON OF LINEKER said:

which is what the result would've been had the goal stood.

Says who?

[St Darren]

The game shouldn’t be replayed or the result altered. Anything could have happened if Diaz’s goal had stood. 
 

I’m hoping that they are taking about financial compensation of sorts from the PGMOL or assurances that Liverpool don’t have those officials again as well as on-going change within that organisation. 

[Devils@Dusk]

On 01/10/2023 at 23:16, SON OF LINEKER said:

Hopefully common sense and ultimately fairness will out and Liverpool are at least awarded a point for the game which is what the result would've been had the goal stood

 

I bet if it was Spurs that was done out of a goal, you wouldn't have said that, and not as much fuss would've been made out of this whole debacle. 

Some teams have been royally screwed over by VAR. Look at Man U/Nottingham Forest a few weeks ago. Rashford diving, and other general a$$hattery from other Man U players.

Liverpool aren't special. Even before VAR, goals were being scored, and cancelled out when they should've stood. 

14 hours ago, St Darren said:

The game shouldn’t be replayed or the result altered. Anything could have happened if Diaz’s goal had stood. 
 

I’m hoping that they are taking about financial compensation of sorts from the PGMOL or assurances that Liverpool don’t have those officials again as well as on-going change within that organisation. 

Exactly.

Like I've said, this would've all been laughed off if it was Spurs in this position, and not Liverpool.

 

[St Darren]

5 hours ago, Devils@Dusk said:

I bet if it was Spurs that was done out of a goal, you wouldn't have said that, and not as much fuss would've been made out of this whole debacle. 

Some teams have been royally screwed over by VAR. Look at Man U/Nottingham Forest a few weeks ago. Rashford diving, and other general a$$hattery from other Man U players.

Liverpool aren't special. Even before VAR, goals were being scored, and cancelled out when they should've stood. 

Exactly.

Like I've said, this would've all been laughed off if it was Spurs in this position, and not Liverpool.

 

No it would t. This is a serious error when a legitimate goal has been scored and the communication hasn’t been relayed. It has the potential to change a lot. 
 

If it was Spurs or any other team I’d be saying the exact same thing. This can’t happen. 
 

There’s only been one other occurrence similar to this since VAR was introduced and that was the Shedf Utd v Villa when the ball crossed the line but the watch didn’t go off. 
 

There are no other situations that match what happened on Saturday. 

[St Darren]

4 hours ago, Keith B said:

Job to argue with that Darren. So, all things considered - what's the answer then ?

Have an organisation that are separate to their mates on the field.  
 

Make them culpable for their actions rather than being governed by themselves. 

[bighairydave]

On 03/10/2023 at 05:42, St Darren said:

No it would t. This is a serious error when a legitimate goal has been scored and the communication hasn’t been relayed. It has the potential to change a lot. 
 

If it was Spurs or any other team I’d be saying the exact same thing. This can’t happen. 
 

There’s only been one other occurrence similar to this since VAR was introduced and that was the Shedf Utd v Villa when the ball crossed the line but the watch didn’t go off. 
 

There are no other situations that match what happened on Saturday. 

Short memories then!

 

Liverpool v Wolves in FA Cup and they didn’t have a camera angle that could prove that it he goal was fine so had to stay on field!

[St Darren]

1 minute ago, bighairydave said:

Short memories then!

 

Liverpool v Wolves in FA Cup and they didn’t have a camera angle that could prove that it he goal was fine so had to stay on field!

It’s completely different.  The officials on the day of the game agreed that it was offside, however, a camera angle told different. 
 

this is unprecedented in the fact that they agreed a goal was scored but failed to award it, the var recording tells you that. 
 

what would you say if your team scored a goal, it was disallowed for offside (incorrectly), a check was made “check complete” and then the goalkeeper starts the game with a goal kick. That is what has happened here. I can’t believe the comparisons that people are making. There hasn’t been a single incident the same. 

[bighairydave]

2 minutes ago, St Darren said:

It’s completely different.  The officials on the day of the game agreed that it was offside, however, a camera angle told different. 
 

this is unprecedented in the fact that they agreed a goal was scored but failed to award it, the var recording tells you that. 
 

what would you say if your team scored a goal, it was disallowed for offside (incorrectly), a check was made “check complete” and then the goalkeeper starts the game with a goal kick. That is what has happened here. I can’t believe the comparisons that people are making. There hasn’t been a single incident the same. 

It’s on par with the decision. Similar with the Bournemouth goal v Aston Villa, pre-VAR where the watch didn’t go off for GLT.
 

To ask for a replay is silly. It won’t happen and now Liverpool fans/Klopp need to look forward with the rest of their season.

[St Darren]

15 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

It’s on par with the decision. Similar with the Bournemouth goal v Aston Villa, pre-VAR where the watch didn’t go off for GLT.
 

To ask for a replay is silly. It won’t happen and now Liverpool fans/Klopp need to look forward with the rest of their season.

I don’t think there should be a replay but Liverpool have a case as the laws haven’t been applied. 
 

it was Sheff Utd v Villa, and that’s the nearest thing. But that’s technology error, no one could have done anything about that at the time. In the Liverpool incident the officials could have stopped the game to award the goal once they knew the error, however they weee more intent on protecting themselves against their own authority. 

[bighairydave]

4 minutes ago, St Darren said:

I don’t think there should be a replay but Liverpool have a case as the laws haven’t been applied. 
 

it was Sheff Utd v Villa, and that’s the nearest thing. But that’s technology error, no one could have done anything about that at the time. In the Liverpool incident the officials could have stopped the game to award the goal once they knew the error, however they weee more intent on protecting themselves against their own authority. 

I don’t think they tried to protect themselves, they panicked and it was only the non-referee who actually tried to do anything.

 

I also feel if Michael Oliver wasn’t fourth official (the other “Oli”) it may have changed things too. They have to be more professional and use proper names or even job role names.

[St Darren]

Just now, bighairydave said:

I don’t think they tried to protect themselves, they panicked and it was only the non-referee who actually tried to do anything.

 

I also feel if Michael Oliver wasn’t fourth official (the other “Oli”) it may have changed things too. They have to be more professional and use proper names or even job role names.

That’s nothing to do with it, use of names is mad

of courses they protected themselves, why didn’t they just resolve the matter at the time? They knew their mistake a Bd didn’t do anything about it which makes the situation even worse. 
 

it’s an absolute shit show, Howard Webb has come in and made things worse.  Protecting his own, but I wouldn’t expect anything less than a former South Yorkshire Policeman 

 

those officials also went to the UAE prior to the match to officiate over there, is this right???  I’m not saying that that had any baring over this incident but it doesn’t look good does it. 

[bighairydave]

1 hour ago, St Darren said:

That’s nothing to do with it, use of names is mad

of courses they protected themselves, why didn’t they just resolve the matter at the time? They knew their mistake a Bd didn’t do anything about it which makes the situation even worse. 
 

it’s an absolute shit show, Howard Webb has come in and made things worse.  Protecting his own, but I wouldn’t expect anything less than a former South Yorkshire Policeman 

 

those officials also went to the UAE prior to the match to officiate over there, is this right???  I’m not saying that that had any baring over this incident but it doesn’t look good does it. 

The two on VAR were also VAR out there too.

 

Protecting yourself would surely be getting it right no matter what.

 

I’d also disagree with elements of what Webb has done. I think the comms with media has improved, and the issues are in the core so going to take longer than 9 moths to sort.

[St Darren]

7 hours ago, bighairydave said:

The two on VAR were also VAR out there too.

 

Protecting yourself would surely be getting it right no matter what.

 

I’d also disagree with elements of what Webb has done. I think the comms with media has improved, and the issues are in the core so going to take longer than 9 moths to sort.

It’s the 2 on VAR and Michael Oliver that were out there that I meant 

this could be looked at as a conflict of interest 

[Dave Deacon]

Or it could just be that it was too good an opportunity to turn down! 

[St Darren]

34 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Or it could just be that it was too good an opportunity to turn down! 

For money??  From the state that own a football club in the UK!!!

You can see how conspiracy theories start!!

[Dave Deacon]

1 hour ago, St Darren said:

For money??  From the state that own a football club in the UK!!!

You can see how conspiracy theories start!!

The money probably helps, but what an experience as well! Too often we always think on the dark side!

[Jeremy Wade]

5 hours ago, St Darren said:

For money??  From the state that own a football club in the UK!!!

You can see how conspiracy theories start!!

Why can players play anywhere they want 99% of the time because the money is better and its not questioned.  But its different for officials?

People claim English officials are terrible, so why don't/cant the English FA "buy" the contracts of the best Italian, French, German officials? similar to the transfer window

JW

[St Darren]

22 minutes ago, Jeremy Wade said:

Why can players play anywhere they want 99% of the time because the money is better and its not questioned.  But its different for officials?

People claim English officials are terrible, so why don't/cant the English FA "buy" the contracts of the best Italian, French, German officials? similar to the transfer window

JW

This is the question.  IMO foreign referees would be great for the league, we have foreign players so why not foreign refs.  As said before, it then removes any potential regional bias. 
 

with regards to going off to a different country for money.  A player doesn’t go off midweek to play for a different club in another country to return at the weekend to play for home club. 
 

as I said, I don’t think they had any effect, but it’s not going to look good is it?  Effectively a jolly away for 3 days, and we’ve all been on jolly’s!!!!

[bighairydave]

15 hours ago, St Darren said:

It’s the 2 on VAR and Michael Oliver that were out there that I meant 

this could be looked at as a conflict of interest 

It happens all of the time, it’s only come up now because of the mistake.

[St Darren]

Incoming…..

[Brianmooreshead]

And again. How is Kovacic still on the field. If he can’t spot that should he really be refereeing at this level 

[St Darren]

32 minutes ago, Brianmooreshead said:

And again. How is Kovacic still on the field. If he can’t spot that should he really be refereeing at this level 

So are we starting to come round to my conclusion that they’re all rubbish.  And Michael Oliver is meant to be one of the best. 
 

I’ve not seen the full Liverpool game yet but apparently the Brighton player should have been sent off for the foul for the penalty. 

[bighairydave]

37 minutes ago, St Darren said:

So are we starting to come round to my conclusion that they’re all rubbish.  And Michael Oliver is meant to be one of the best. 
 

I’ve not seen the full Liverpool game yet but apparently the Brighton player should have been sent off for the foul for the penalty. 

“Apparently”

 

 

[Brianmooreshead]

16 hours ago, St Darren said:

So are we starting to come round to my conclusion that they’re all rubbish.  And Michael Oliver is meant to be one of the best. 
 

I’ve not seen the full Liverpool game yet but apparently the Brighton player should have been sent off for the foul for the penalty. 

I'm not saying that they're all rubbish. I certainly don't see our refs as " The best in the World " - How Oliver cannot see that as a second yellow is beyond belief. I certainly don't think he's corrupt either - So what's the reason ??

[St Darren]

2 hours ago, Brianmooreshead said:

I'm not saying that they're all rubbish. I certainly don't see our refs as " The best in the World " - How Oliver cannot see that as a second yellow is beyond belief. I certainly don't think he's corrupt either - So what's the reason ??

I certainly don’t think they’re corrupt!  I just think they’re incompetent. The problem is that the PGMOL have no one to answer to.  They’re the only body who can referee matches in the football leagues. They’ve been poor for years but this year seems to have got worse under Howard Webb.  There’s no accountability, just a sorry!  
 

The laws of the game don’t help that’s for sure.  
 

but there were some more baffling decisions at the weekend that are just wild 

[St Darren]

And so we continue with the inconsistency. How Konate wasn’t booked and therefore sent off for Liverpool yesterday is anyone’s guess!!!

[We Two]

If anyone gets the chance to watch "The Big Match Revisited" on T.V. please do so because that was back in the day when men played the game and reacted to a crunching foul as if it had never happened.
Chopper Harris, Norman Hunter and Billy Bremner would have spent the majority of their career under suspension if they had played in todays climate, and most referees would be out of a job for allowing it to happen.
Unfair foul play is not to be encouraged, but unfair play also includes cheating to get a player booked, simulation of a foul, etc,etc, the game has become far too clinical in its entirety.