Referees in the Premier league.

[St Darren]

2 hours ago, bighairydave said:

Forest one is awful.

 

The Liverpool one is more around law than the officials, can’t blame them for choosing not to award/intervene.

It’s the inconsistency though. Sons are given some aren’t.  But I do agree with you.  
 

 

[bighairydave]

6 minutes ago, St Darren said:

It’s the inconsistency though. Sons are given some aren’t.  But I do agree with you.  
 

 

They aren't factual decisions though so there will always be an element of inconsistency. I believe that the law on the Arsenal handball was quoted correctly but used incorrectly. Yes it appeared his arm went down to break his fall, but he didn't actually fall so that's where having players to help would be useful.

[St Darren]

8 hours ago, bighairydave said:

They aren't factual decisions though so there will always be an element of inconsistency. I believe that the law on the Arsenal handball was quoted correctly but used incorrectly. Yes it appeared his arm went down to break his fall, but he didn't actually fall so that's where having players to help would be useful.

I think having players there could cause more grief due to any possible allegiances 

[St Darren]

Kinell.  That is one of the worst VAR decisions tonight in the Palace v Everton game. 
 

 

[Dave Deacon]

Referees seem to have their minds changed far too easily!

Almost all the post match was taken over by discussing the decision! VAR has taken over 😱 

[St Darren]

8 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

Referees seem to have their minds changed far too easily!

Almost all the post match was taken over by discussing the decision! VAR has taken over 😱 

They said that games wouldnt be re-refereed , but that is exactly what they’re doing. He didn’t even give a free kick. 

[fenman]

Yet another little anomaly St. Daren .........     Brentford / Wolves , Wolves player red card , for tackle with studs up  , in the managers opinion correct decision .  Later in game Brentford player stamps on Wolves players ankle  apparently intentionally  later on Brentford player grabs Wolves player by the throat and throws him to te ground  , strangely no red card s . No wonder supporters and managers get frustrated . As you repeatedly say St. Darren where's the consistensy ? 

[St Darren]

3 hours ago, fenman said:

Yet another little anomaly St. Daren .........     Brentford / Wolves , Wolves player red card , for tackle with studs up  , in the managers opinion correct decision .  Later in game Brentford player stamps on Wolves players ankle  apparently intentionally  later on Brentford player grabs Wolves player by the throat and throws him to te ground  , strangely no red card s . No wonder supporters and managers get frustrated . As you repeatedly say St. Darren where's the consistensy ? 

I’ve not seen that yet. Will have a look. 
 

in the Arsenal Liverpool game today.  Havertz disagreed with a refs decision and shouted F*** off to the ref. Nothing dove, Harvey Elliot throws an arm in disapproval and gets a yellow!!  
 

it was good watching the Newcastle game without VAR as the ref had to make decisions. No one complained about anything afterwards

[Dave Deacon]

38 minutes ago, St Darren said:

it was good watching the Newcastle game without VAR as the ref had to make decisions. No one complained about anything afterwards

Watching without VAR interruptions is far better!

[St Darren]

On 04/01/2024 at 21:55, St Darren said:

Kinell.  That is one of the worst VAR decisions tonight in the Palace v Everton game. 
 

 

Appeal won.  More proof that the referees are awful especially when on VAR. 

[Dave Deacon]

1 hour ago, St Darren said:

More proof that the referees are awful especially when on VAR. 

Shouldn't have been swayed by the VAR guys!

[St Darren]

32 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Shouldn't have been swayed by the VAR guys!

Exactly.  The referees when they are the VAR become awful.  

[St Darren]

So then, do we talk about VAR not sending off Gusto in the Fulham Chelsea match?  Yes that’s fine Tony, yellow is fine for that challenge.  

[fenman]

The picture above is an official in the VAR office  checking one of the manuals covering the rules . This particular one covers handball .There are others just as big covering the interpretation of a foul , offside  and what constitutes diving .

[St Darren]

That’s bigger than the “understanding women” edition 

[fenman]

In todays society St. Darren I was afraid to post the original caption .

[St Darren]

Does anyone else watch Refs Mic’d up?

i thought that this idea would be a good idea and make good viewing however it just makes things worse.  They’re so inconsistent in their approach to handball it’s crazy. 

[Brianmooreshead]

The ref at Sheffield Utd today was dreadful. Out of his depth. Where DO they find these people ? 

[Dave Deacon]

4 hours ago, Brianmooreshead said:

The ref at Sheffield Utd today was dreadful. Out of his depth. Where DO they find these people ? 

What was wrong with him? 

[Brianmooreshead]

Have a look at the highlights Dave - Sheff Utds penalty was iffy at best but a minute later the Sheff centre half has Bowen in a wrestling hold - It's a clear penalty but he hasn't got the nerve to give it 

[St Darren]

25 minutes ago, Brianmooreshead said:

Have a look at the highlights Dave - Sheff Utds penalty was iffy at best but a minute later the Sheff centre half has Bowen in a wrestling hold - It's a clear penalty but he hasn't got the nerve to give it 

They’re all awful. I can understand if the referee on field misses something on occasions but not when you have VAR. 

Tierney was on VAR for the Liverpool game (he has a string of incidents that are poor for Liverpool) he didn’t do anything for the kliavert tackle or for a clear penalty on Jota. 
 

There are now more managers coming out and commenting on these officials, it’s time that something happened. 

[St Darren]

I’m sure The Premier league and PGMOL are just trolling Liverpool by putting Paul Tierney in charge of the game against Chelsea next week. 

[St Darren]

And now, the PGMOL have put David Cooke on VAR for Arsenal v Liverpool.  The same VAR that didn’t award Liverpool a penalty in the reverse fixture.  An incident in which pgmol chief Howard Webb said was a mistake. 
 

Hobestly, The Pgmol are not fit for purpose, they just don’t think

[St Darren]

6 second law.  At the Liverpool v Burnley  game yesterday. The Burnley keeper kept the ball in his hands for an eternity at times. I counted up to 22 seconds at one stage.  These are simple laws that the referees can adhere to that stops blatant time wasting.  
 

don’t even get me on the VAR decision to award penalties in the Luton v sheff utd game. 
 

all of them, shite 

[Dave Deacon]

7 hours ago, St Darren said:

6 second law.

Does it still exist? 

[St Darren]

24 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Does it still exist? 

Yes apparently it does. 
 

it was ridiculous yesterday. Eventually Klopp got booked for remonstrating with the referee for not applying the law!

They are all really bad 

[St Darren]

Would be great if ree ed degrees could just referee the game rather than the occasion. 
 

First half of Caraboa cup final and 5 booksble challenges in first half and not one card given. 
 

they’re all shite 

[BrummyBarry]

You're boring now 

[St Darren]

10 hours ago, BrummyBarry said:

You're boring now 

Don’t read it then. Simple.  Merely highlighting how poor they are on a weekly basis yet they remain untouchable.  

[St Darren]

They just don’t get better do they?

The challenge from the Brighton player on the Forest player is one of the most straight forward red cards you can give.  Player leaves the ground, out of control and catches the player. 2 minutes, yellow card stands!!!

The Liverpool potential penalty against city, I’ve no doubt would have been given had it been earlier in the game. However, it was Stuart Atwell and he’s the worst of the lot

[St Darren]

That Chelsea penalty given yesterday!!!  Despite having 3 officials looking at various angles of the incident decide to back their mate on the pitch and say it’s a penalty!!!

it’s not corruption, it’s just incompetence 

[Brianmooreshead]

Do you know Darren - I thought of you when he gave that : ) 

Appalling decision - Have these referees ever PLAYED football at all ?

 

[fenman]

Another strange one at Wolves today , St. Darren  . This offside rule is  a muddle . 

[BrummyBarry]

Ive only seen a photo but he's standing directly in front of the gk so his vision is blocked.its an obvious offside surely

[Dave Deacon]

1 hour ago, BrummyBarry said:

Ive only seen a photo but he's standing directly in front of the gk so his vision is blocked.its an obvious offside surely

Not according to some! 

[St Darren]

Just seen the disallowed goal in you tube.  I can’t work out why it’s been given.  MOTD will have clearer stuff later on. Wolves have been shafted loads this year. 
 

Remember it’s not the technology that doesn’t work. It’s the incompetent officials that are using it.  They’re costing clubs millions through their decisions. 

[St Darren]

14 hours ago, fenman said:

Another strange one at Wolves today , St. Darren  . This offside rule is  a muddle . 

Just seen it and Gary ONeils response. He’s correct, if the referees are aware of the playing of football there’s no way the player makes a difference in the ball going in the net. 
 

I take it back to when Man City scored against Fulham and the player jumped over the ball and it was allowed. 
 

the inconsistency and incompetence of these officials just continues.   Despite having as long as they want to view a video replay. 

[fenman]

Just watched it , the situation reminded me in the long gone days of school  when had 3 , or up to 15 a side teams and we  modified rules as we went along . I think Gary O'Neil sums it up when he said  nobody appealed for offside , so it wasn't a clear and obvious error . Also doesn't the rule book say that you cannot be offside from a corner kick ?. Wolves fans , including me , are disappointed at the loss of  a point AGAIN  due to a bizzare  V.A.R.  decision  ( I think that's 7 possible points this season ) , but you have to feel for any manager having  to possibly lose his job  because of a series of strange decisions by VAR officials over a season .Particularly now that many clubs are run or owned by foreign investors who have little idea or knowledge of the game  but see it as a cash cow  and are likely to sack the manager at anytime . In addition  , a number of Wolves players and officials were cautioned following the fiasco yesterday , I'm not defending them but what about if 2 players were booked for the protest and  the booking took them over the threshold for a match ban ? . The manager ( any manager of any club in these circumstances ) then loses 2 players for a game  as a result  of  a more than dodgy VAR decision .

St. Darren will soon have more supporters than Greta Thunberg .

I've heard a rumour , a strong rumour , that the F.A.  are producing a comedy routine  based on VAR officials decisions at this years Royal Variety  Performance .

[fenman]

Is there any referees on here who understand or can give a reason why the goal was disallowed . Sorry to labour  this incident but the reasons given by various defenders of the decision  are 1 offside  ( from a corner ?)  player obstructing goalkeeper  , which he doesn't appear to be doing  ( not just my opinion but the opinion of the pundits 

It's sad when the game is being dragged down by a system that many people wanted but for whatever reason hasn't worked and has created even more controversy 

[St Darren]

3 hours ago, fenman said:

Is there any referees on here who understand or can give a reason why the goal was disallowed . Sorry to labour  this incident but the reasons given by various defenders of the decision  are 1 offside  ( from a corner ?)  player obstructing goalkeeper  , which he doesn't appear to be doing  ( not just my opinion but the opinion of the pundits 

It's sad when the game is being dragged down by a system that many people wanted but for whatever reason hasn't worked and has created even more controversy 

We know the reason why it doesn’t work at times!

[St Darren]

Stuart Atwell performing on VAR today for the Everton v Forest game

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

On 11/04/2024 at 11:39, fenman said:

Is there any referees on here who understand or can give a reason why the goal was disallowed . Sorry to labour  this incident but the reasons given by various defenders of the decision  are 1 offside  ( from a corner ?)  player obstructing goalkeeper  , which he doesn't appear to be doing  ( not just my opinion but the opinion of the pundits 

It's sad when the game is being dragged down by a system that many people wanted but for whatever reason hasn't worked and has created even more controversy 

You can't be offside directly from a corner. 

Offside position is judged every time the ball is played or touched by a team mate. So the offside judgement is from when the wolves player shoots, not from the corner.

At the point the wolves player heads the ball the player in an offside position "interferes with an opponent by preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision."

 

 

[Dave Deacon]

I think the debate on this one was the question whether the Wolves player was interfering to make it awkward for the goalkeeper ! And really was he? Harsh decision in my opinion (which of course doesn’t count for anything, but it’s good to have a thought).

[fenman]

I think part of the problem is that the rule makers have  made the rules so complicated  and open to individual interpretation that the referees job has become a nightmare .It's a bit like the hard shoulder situation on motorways , it worked perfectly well and created a bit of a safety zone in the event of a vehicle problem , then some genius comes up with the bright idea of making the hard shoulder another lane , eliminating  the nearside safety area . Result , fatalities and chaos . I know this comparison is more serious than football rules but the same thinking applies .

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

2 hours ago, fenman said:

I think part of the problem is that the rule makers have  made the rules so complicated  and open to individual interpretation that the referees job has become a nightmare .It's a bit like the hard shoulder situation on motorways , it worked perfectly well and created a bit of a safety zone in the event of a vehicle problem , then some genius comes up with the bright idea of making the hard shoulder another lane , eliminating  the nearside safety area . Result , fatalities and chaos . I know this comparison is more serious than football rules but the same thinking applies .

I don't think offside is necessarily that complicated. I think what does complicate it, and what causes confusion, even amongst referees, is the language that's used in the rules.

We have the 3 offences of interfering with play, interfering with an opponent, and gaining an advantage. 

Each of these offences is followed with a by and it's the secondary part that is the actual offence (e.g. interferes with play by playing the ball).

What then happens the law is misinterpreted using the 3 title offences and so penalise every instance of interfering with an opponent based on the everyday understanding of those words,  even though it isn't one of the "by" criteria. Classic example of a non offence is an attacker in an offside position causes a defender to intercept the ball and put it out for a corner. You'll see this flagged and regularly penalised in grassroots football, but this is not an offside offence. But you can certainly argue that the offside player interferes with his opponent and that's why the by part is important when applying offside laws.

A way to simplify this would be to remove the 3 aforementioned offences and be left with actually what the law makers want to be punished as offside.

The changes over many many years have been made to create more attacking football and to only penalise those offside players that have a real impact on play. In times gone by, albeit there has always been an interference element to offside, anything that moved offside was flagged and that just isn't good for the game.

3 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

I think the debate on this one was the question whether the Wolves player was interfering to make it awkward for the goalkeeper ! And really was he? Harsh decision in my opinion (which of course doesn’t count for anything, but it’s good to have a thought).

The exact question is was he obstructing his line of vision and did this prevent him from playing or being able to play the ball? 

I'd expect offside to be given here, any obstruction of the vision delays the goal keepers reaction so he is unable to attempt to play the ball.

I've read people saying that he couldnt have made the save anyway but this isn't the standard - referees aren't mystic megs unfortunately so we can't say well he probably wouldn't have saved it. 

Line of vision obstructed = yes

Prevented from being able to play the ball = yes. 

It might seem harsh if you think well he wouldn't have saved that anyway, and I can understand this point of view,  but that's a matter for the laws to change to allow that into thinking.

The guidelines are pretty specific that this should be an offside offence:

 

[Dave Deacon]

So many words! What happened to “the simple game”?