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wells wilderbeast

St Day Points Deduction?

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Just one game in the SWPL would mean a player counts as one of the three permitted to play in any League fixture Kev.

I think my previous posting explains why there cannot be any comment about points being lost or awarded; the due process has not yet been completed.

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So John , just as an example, say ourselves at Illogan or wendron get promoted to swpl nxt season, if we are short and need to call up players to help us from our own reserves, once they have then played 1 game for us, they ultimately can be making themselves inelligible to then drop back to our own rsserve team if we use any more than 3 of them?! That would be crazy as any team obviously uses its reserves if they are short

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very true Abbo,but saying being let down by the club,what about the club being let down when getting kicked out of the senior cup for cheating!

Yes you could say that... Club was delighted when he won the combo cup tho! Both ways be honest mate.

I'm not there biggest fan..however Great squad they have had this year.. League will be worse off without!.

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Thank you John. I'm not really interested what happens regarding the points m8, that's a management decision. I just needed to know the games played situation.

Jamo, you have read it right buddy. Only one way to sort this ludicrous situation & stop it from happening year after year, 1 player 1 club, whatever league that club has a team in, you sign for the club. If a player signed on for, example porthleven peninsula side wants to go & have a game with his mates at the Lizard, they put in 7 days & transfer him. He can't stay signed for porthleven at any level !!!

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Just seems ridiculous robbo , I agree with Kevin with the one club ruling, at least then it encourages reserve team players to push for a first team spot, if your first team is swpl, without the worry of if he doesn't make it then is cocking himself up if he needs to drop back to his own clubs reserves

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I have just been given permission by the league to update the website.

St Day have been docked 21 points and the teams they played have been given those points.

Those games will be recorded as 0-0 wins to St Day's opponents.

All goals scored by either side will be taken away and the Golden Boot Award will be amended accordingly.

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Thank you John. I'm not really interested what happens regarding the points m8, that's a management decision. I just needed to know the games played situation.

Jamo, you have read it right buddy. Only one way to sort this ludicrous situation & stop it from happening year after year, 1 player 1 club, whatever league that club has a team in, you sign for the club. If a player signed on for, example porthleven peninsula side wants to go & have a game with his mates at the Lizard, they put in 7 days & transfer him. He can't stay signed for porthleven at any level !!!

Agree totally with this

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Thank you John. I'm not really interested what happens regarding the points m8, that's a management decision. I just needed to know the games played situation.

Jamo, you have read it right buddy. Only one way to sort this ludicrous situation & stop it from happening year after year, 1 player 1 club, whatever league that club has a team in, you sign for the club. If a player signed on for, example porthleven peninsula side wants to go & have a game with his mates at the Lizard, they put in 7 days & transfer him. He can't stay signed for porthleven at any level !!!

Agree totally with this

?

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Plenty of rumours but let's wait and see what the outcome is and what if any rules have been broken , and if they have been broken let's leave the combo sort out the punishments , there is also probable some teams who have also made mistakes over teams and been punished for this but this issue what has come up will now make all club secs be more vigilant in the future

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While I believe one player, one Club would be a great rule, the FA have ruled out all attempts to bring in such a rule. They state it would be a restrictive practice and firmly believe that a non-contract player has the right to sign for as many clubs, in different Leagues as he wishes!

Cornishteddyboy's post above about points deduction/awards is, of course, subject to ratification by the League Management Committee, as well as the outcome of any appeal St Day may wish to make.

Proposals for Rule changes regarding the eligibility of those who have played at a higher level have already been received and will be voted upon at the next agm. There was not much wrong with the rule in place last season but it seems some clubs don't really want SWPL Reserve Teams in the Combination League. The current rule makes it almost impossible to comply, without running two separate entities within a Club - and this is not how it should be.

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POS TEAM PL W D L F A GD PTS

1 ILLOGAN RBL 24 23 0 1 79 21 58 69

2 LUDGVAN 24 19 1 4 98 37 61 58

3 WENDRON UNITED 20 17 1 2 83 23 60 52

4 REDRUTH UNITED 24 17 1 6 70 35 35 52

5 ST JUST 24 16 3 5 72 41 31 51

6 ST IVES TOWN 24 14 5 5 54 33 21 47*

7 MULLION 22 11 4 7 50 32 18 37

8 PERRANWELL 25 10 5 10 55 49 6 35

9 FALMOUTH TOWN RESERVES 28 10 5 13 53 74 -21 35*

10 ST AGNES 20 10 3 7 38 38 0 33

11 HAYLE 27 8 8 11 34 57 -23 32^

12 ST DAY 20 9 0 11 53 24 29 27"

13 RNAS CULDROSE 21 8 3 10 34 55 -21 27*

14 NEWQUAY RESERVES 27 6 7 14 45 61 -16 25

15 PENRYN ATHLETIC RESERVES 28 7 4 17 49 76 -27 25

16 FALMOUTH ATHLETIC 22 3 5 14 21 53 -32 17*

17 TROON 25 4 3 17 26 89 -63 15*

18 GOONHAVERN ATHLETIC 27 4 1 22 30 97 -67 13*

19 PORTHLEVEN RESERVES 28 3 3 22 34 83 -49 9°

^Plus 6 points * Plus 3 points °Minus 3 points "Minus 21 points

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Thank you again for your knowledge John. Unfortunately we can't compete with the FA.

Unless we want this sort of fiasco to happen again, combo clubs, if you want to be a senior league, grow some balls & except that you may find yourself's playing against players who normally play in the peninsula league, unlucky !

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I think it can only improve the standard of games in the combo if there were reserve teams from the SWPL in the league. I appreciate there will be more financial issues with travel / ref expences , but here is a great opportunity to move forward !!

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Posted · Hidden by Dave Deacon, March 20, 2014 - No reason given
Hidden by Dave Deacon, March 20, 2014 - No reason given

Well if the league hasn't got the b######s to throw St Day out of the cup,let's see if St Day act the same way as they have a manager who has resigned twice this season,slagged off his own club in the press,acts an idiot with foul language frequentlk used on the touchline every game,lied that players don't get paid when its common knowledge they do,lives in a fantasy life where he thinks St Day are going to win the league when Illogan are in a far better team and llead St Day by a vast amount of points,Finally and most importantly has turned St Day from a well respected club to a laughing stock. But are St Day going to let Matt manage the club in the league cup with in his words 6-8 players from a higher league, and then try and ask their loyal players to see out the rest of the seasn for them. come on St Day make a stand and gt that respect you had from the other clubs in your league back!

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Kev

Totally agree with the 1 club rule whilst the FA feel it is 'restrictive' it promotes commitment and a greater team ethos and also prevents current players disgruntlement when outsiders are brought in for particular games.

I do slightly disagree on the 3 player rule being restrictive, I am sure you have experienced as have I the end of season loading up that occurs which whilst not as harmful to clubs in mid table can have major consequences for sides facing relegation or battling for the league title......it's very noticeable that in recent years certain clubs with SWPL sides who struggle throughout the season suddenly start to pick up 'unexpected' points towards the end of the season.

I think that maybe a 3 to 5 game qualifying period should be introduced to class someone as a player competing in a higher league as jarmo has stated it would be a nightmare for a reserve side to donate a player for a game and then suffer on their return

On the St Day front what's not been mentioned is that if they've just been docked 21 points that will also be a massive fine as each game will incur a financial penalty of not only points lost but also for each player that has caused that infringement.....it could be massive!

Now Matt Harris can come out in the West Briton and say he feels 'let down' but at the end of the day he's been entrusted by the St Day committee to compete in the combination league within the rules and going by the points deducted in the 20 games they have played a third of them (7) with in excess of 3 players who have competed in a higher league, it's his job to field a side legally and he should make it his business to know those rules at the beginning of the season.

I think it's disappointing that it's taken this long for the combination league to act and would love to be a fly on the wall at the next combo meeting as I'm sure many clubs will be asking questions of why the season of a senior league has turned into such farce when one of the main title contenders have been punished so extensively.

I'm no longer attached to a club so my views are my own but it frustrates me that things like this become a sideshow to the more important things of who is going to win the league and who will be the main contenders come Easter Sunday in the cup......football is about enjoyment and god forbid maybe a social pint between teams on a Saturday afternoon!!!

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Thinking about this issue it seems to me that there are ways in which a fairer solution could be obtained - however this would rely on the SWPL and JCCL keeping the online information re player appearances current. Something that the Trelawney League are leading the way via the FA Full time website.

  1. The practice of the Book containing the three paged pre match team sheets should be adopted so that this could be checked against the players involved in the match and confirming that nothing has changed at a later time by checking that it is the same as published on the website (removes the opportunity of teams playing ringers) The book procedure as originally used in the SWPL and also adopted by the Trelawney League.(Copies are One for the referee, one for the away side and one retained in the book for the home side, The book can then be used by the club secretary to ensure that the information provided to the league is accurate)
  2. The rule about only being able to play three players from a higher League is good. However there should be a qualifier to their status- A player who has played more than 5 games in a higher League would qualify - and conversely if a player has played 5 games after dropping down he should no longer be classified as coming from a higher league. (Based on the old Junior/Senior status method)- Hence if a reserve team player comes in to play for a first team game he is not prohibited from going back to play for the reserves
  3. Clubs should be prohibited from bringing in any players from another club that normally play in a higher league in an ad hoc basis - unless that player has fully transferred to the club.
  4. The rules as they stand could be construed as restrictive and unfair towards clubs that run more than one team. Also restrictive to players

There may be additional points that others may consider important - all of which warrant debating but I do believe this is also fair to all those who have issue with sides dropping players down for important games.

These may have already been proposed or maybe not - but are just my thoughts - plus I am currently not affiliated to any club so have no agenda behind these thoughts

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Putty they are only title contenders because they broke rules that is not a farce. Playing Ford as Hennessey was not a commuter decision but the managers. St Day is a good club but has been let down by its choice of manager as has the other ckubs he has managed

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Is a bit stupid really. A reserve team should be there as progression for players to go up and gain experience in a higher level then injured players to come down to regain fitness. But this rule makes that kind of impossible doesnt it. Obviously the rules have been made but i cant say i agree with it. I can just see now players turning around saying i dont want to step up and play 1st team because i wont be able to play 2nd team anymore if other players have done the same within the club. 1 club rule for me aswell. Good luck to all for the big title run in.............and relegation scrap. ?

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Similar problems with our club having a Combo and Trelawney teams , players can only play 3 games for the Combo

then they are deemed Senior .

Unfortunately this has made it difficult for players to go between teams if unavailability ( which is getting worse )

and injury prevails.

Some rules need to be looked at , but not everyone will be happy ! One club rule should be somewhere to start .

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If you read Matt's article in the West Briton he ckearly states it was infact his decision to "send" a player to Truro City to play. Now just put 2+2 together here Reno was manager at Truro at that time bear in mind they have been joint managers previously,this could quite possibly be a very good set up as in return Truro might just "lend" St Day a few players at crucial times. Kempy I can't see that this 1 club rule would help that much as you would still have a senior/junior problem.if you delve into why this rule was put in place originally it was because a certain team played a junior cup final with a full senior side

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Having read all the comments it seems that clubs and managers have brought all this grief on themselves. These rules and others were never a problem back 15 - 20 years ago - back when MJP and Kev Richards were playing - and no doubt others of that era including me a little bit, never cared if our opponents had ringers and junior teams were "loaded" because it never happened regardless if a team were challenging for a title or a cup or fighting off relegation. If it happened then it only served to galvanise your desire to beat them and look them in the eye with a rye smile afterwards - never heard Mauler moan he was playing someone from the south western league - he probably made a b-line for them to introduce himself during play!!

It has come more and more to the fore that teams play others from a so-called higher standard and who has chosen to do it? The clubs and the mangers and there are very few if any that would not or have not do it. Perhaps if there was more of a "gentleman's agreement" not to abuse the rule and not take the mickey, then maybe there would not be the problems there are now. Let's be honest, with the decline in standards across the board, do players dropping down really make that much difference. Spend more energy on trying to beat the ringers instead of whining about it afterwards on here.

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I believe the player we are talking about here is Mikey Davies, I left post on January 11th, Mikey made his 1st appearance as a sub home to Bude on February 1st. So I can confirm during my spell at TCFC no player was loaned or agreement was arranged, so unfortunately no substance at all in this rumour.

I have recently be offered the job at St Day which i declined at this time. I would like to wish the club all the best for the future and for the remainder of the season.

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Well thanks Reno your honesty claeared that up. Although it still remains a big question why a club competeing for honours would allow their players to play at a higher standard, firstly due to injuries you might get and of course poaching the player full time

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Reno why turn this down? Concerns about the committee at st day? Or the reputation of the club or yourself? You've had a fair few clubs in the last 10seasons, no more than most players I might add, but I'd like for you to settle down at one club and make a real name for yourself as a manager much like you did as a player I used to enjoy watching (in your prime..!), find a local club, with good willing people, and turn that club into a club to be proud of, you've got it in you..!

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I agree Cornish barbarian, Also I think we could all do with some transparency, we would benefit from knowing who were the people from the league that made the final decisions, and how they arrived at the conclusion that the league rules differed from their own league cup rules?

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At the risk of being accused of posting the same thing repeatedly, I must point out the following:-

1. All rule changes are agreed by Clubs at a League AGM - this is after the proposed changes have been circulated to Clubs so that they can discuss them in their own committee meetings and propose any amendments.

2. All Clubs are given a League Handbook containing the League Rules, including Cup Rules. Clubs have a duty to know what the Rules are and it cannot be the fault of any individuals or Officers of the League if Clubs break those Rules - for any reason.

So, in answer to cornishbarbarian, the Clubs were told about the Rules of the Cup Competitions last August when they received their Handbooks (The Rule has not changed in recent years and it has always been the case that any correctly registered player is eligible.)

I don't see that any more transparency is necessary MJP, the Clubs know who sits on the Disciplinary Committee and they have a duty to apply the Rules as they are written - whether they are "ridiculous" or whether or not they agree with them !

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It won't make any differnefe as this has always been the rule, x 3 for the league, although this doesn't sound many, I can tell you now that x3 players who play on a regular basis at a higher level can and will make a hell of a difference!

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At the risk of being accused of posting the same thing repeatedly, I must point out the following:-

1. All rule changes are agreed by Clubs at a League AGM - this is after the proposed changes have been circulated to Clubs so that they can discuss them in their own committee meetings and propose any amendments.

2. All Clubs are given a League Handbook containing the League Rules, including Cup Rules. Clubs have a duty to know what the Rules are and it cannot be the fault of any individuals or Officers of the League if Clubs break those Rules - for any reason.

So, in answer to cornishbarbarian, the Clubs were told about the Rules of the Cup Competitions last August when they received their Handbooks (The Rule has not changed in recent years and it has always been the case that any correctly registered player is eligible.)

I don't see that any more transparency is necessary MJP, the Clubs know who sits on the Disciplinary Committee and they have a duty to apply the Rules as they are written - whether they are "ridiculous" or whether or not they agree with them !

Well thats cleared that up, thanks John.

Still a strange rule between cup and league thou!

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Posted · Hidden by Richard Chown, April 2, 2014 - Taken off at the request of Colin Kettle
Hidden by Richard Chown, April 2, 2014 - Taken off at the request of Colin Kettle

Well well well, it appears Mr Harris has had more than an extra slice of bacon whilst with us at St Day! :ph34r::SM_carton:

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