Losing Interest in SWPL **West**

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

Looking at the contributions to this forum, the SWPL seems the most commented upon league and most watched of the leagues involving Cornish clubs. Prior to the departure of a number of Cornish clubs into the WL - and in Mousehole's case even higher - the standard of the league was pretty good, with lots of memorable games each season. Can we say the same now? I'd say no!

I've watched a lot of SWPL-W games in recent seasons, but only one this (so far) There are so many mis-matches. We all like to see our teams win well, but taking Liskeard as an example, you know with almost 100% certainty they will put the lesser teams to the sword. Scoring five, five and eight in their first three home games. St Austell are doing likewise. Such predictably high scoring may please fans of such clubs, but is hardly good for the reputation of the league. I may be unique in this, but turning over a majority of clubs with ease doesn't provide much enjoyment as a fan. Besting a good side in a topsy turvey game is far more enjoyable. The trolls on here who like to snipe by calling the SWPL-W a 'village league' now just may have a point.

My personal situation has changed so games watched now are, in the main,  either the most local to me or games watching Truro City at Bolitho or up the M5. Only one of the seven competitive games watched has been a SWPL-W fixture, ironically a very good one in Cally v W/Bridge. Sure games between the Blues, Snozzle, Wendron and maybe Newquay and Bude will be worth a watch, but weekly cricket scores where the 3 points are never in doubt absolutely not.

I should add, this is not a 'pop' at the likes of Liskeard. They are great to watch, with quality in pretty much every position. The other sides listed too all have players worth watching, so I'll bide my time for some of the clashes between them. Anyone else feeling the same?

[Wetsuit]

No

[Thomas mcabe]

Wadebridge lost to the mighty sticker…Some would say that was a game where a cricket score would have been assumed.

Still an excellent league with many clubs of equal ability and also the potential for surprising yet valued results.

Not much said of the Sticker win btw a great confidence boosting win for the team and management.

 

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

49 minutes ago, Thomas mcabe said:

Wadebridge lost to the mighty sticker…Some would say that was a game where a cricket score would have been assumed.

Still an excellent league with many clubs of equal ability and also the potential for surprising yet valued results.

Not much said of the Sticker win btw a great confidence boosting win for the team and management.

 

Wadebridge a decent side and a creditable result by the Sticky for sure. Two comments on this : firstly the smaller clubs beating the like of the Bridgers is rarer and secondly (it is only my opinion) I see the Blues, St A and the ‘Dron (ATM) as being a step above W/Bridge. Moreover, in terms of quality there *are* surely too many five  goal plus victories that suggest the wider quality of the league isn’t what it was.

I’ll probably get forcibly removed from Cornwall, but the East teams I saw last season, seemed to be better overall than the West. That hasn’t typically been the case. 
 

As ever, some on here get quite tetchy if views markedly differ from their own. It is my view. It is offered merely for discussion’ though such things shouldn’t need saying!

Finally, always nice to see a fine club like Sticker notching up a surprise win. Good luck Sticky for the rest of the season.

[Philheybrookbay]

But hasn't it always been the case to a degree? The top teams will win and sometimes easily whilst the bottom will struggle? 

It was the case with the old SWL, you'd drive to places like Porthleven or St Blazey knowing you were on a hiding to nothing one season but then the following season - they'd cut to the bone and they'd struggle and you'd win there. 

There were teams who seemed to do well , season after season (Falmouth and Newquay) and some who'd struggle (St Austell and Holsworthy). 

[We Two]

8 hours ago, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

As ever, some on here get quite tetchy if views markedly differ from their own. It is my view. It is offered merely for discussion’ though such things shouldn’t need saying!

Good point well made B.S.O.T.T. to dare to disagree with some opinions is a recipe for disparaging comment and abusive name calling.
Unfortunate though it is, ignore the perpetrator who probably will always believe their opinion is the correct one and will never be convinced otherwise.
We all have opinions that we are entitled to but should be respectful of those of an opposing view of an event.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Keith B said:

I guess it's a lack of young players coming through, for various reasons - maybe disinterest. Sad days.

Sad Days, -- its what Dad Says too funnily enough!! 😏😁

[Martin McHugh]

At the risk of sounding ,,,,,,, old,,,,      

There are just too many distractions now for players and this reflects in their choices of things to do   . Its too easy to ping a message at the last minute to say you can't train or play and the enthusiasm isn't the same as 'back in the day'.

Volunteers are difficult to find, money is too easy to throw around at 'below average players' as some people describe it.

At the end of the day, I still love going to watch my Blue boys at Liskeard and as long as they remain as local as possible,  the club, the hard working committee and the supporters make it all worthwhile,   Keep watching,  keep supporting,,keep enjoying and if you find something else to do,,,, go and do it !!!!

MQx

[Ian Pethick]

1 hour ago, Keith B said:

I guess it's a lack of young players coming through, for various reasons - maybe disinterest. Sad days.

Disinterest is one of the factors, yes, but plenty of others to consider.  The harsh fact is that there are fewer young people in Cornwall now (especially in areas like the far west), it is a county where the population is increasing, but also getting older (as shown in the last census). Wages are historically low, housing costs are sky high and career opportunities are limited. Youngsters often have little choice but to move away for work or study reasons. Those that do stay quite often have to work Saturdays and evenings in service or retail sector jobs, which makes it very difficult to fit in playing football.

Then of course, the chasm in playing resources and standards between top and bottom clubs comes into play. Who would fancy spending a couple of hours travelling on a wet windy Saturday to play in a near certain drubbing? An afternoon on the Play Station would be a hell of a lot more appealing.

Back on topic, I do fear for the long term future of the Peninsula West, and worry that in few years time it will go the same way as the Combo and ECPL in being subsumed into an expanded St Pirans structure.  

[Chunkycheese]

I believe that perhaps the pride in playing for your local side has went- and that’s worth something that we Cornish peoples towns and villages should reflect on- lots of players travelling distances to play for the bigger teams- are players selfish, or don’t care about their area….. or are areas not doing enough to engage a sense of pride in their locality  

Has the quality of player deprecated, or are all the good players just playing for a select few teams meaning the games are uneven? Typically of the youth of today- want easy wins and struggle with hardships of defeat so go and “play with their mates in the pub leagues” 
 

You say that Liskeard, Wendron and St Austell are fantastic, but in reality they should be, and will be over the next 3-4 years Western league teams. Their budgets (apart from Wendron) mean they absolutely should be! 
 

The proposed, and collapse of the merger with the Western league has a lot to do with it. Lots of players jumping ship to get established in one of thd top 4 who were destined to go up- hence your comment about Bude- Newquay-Wadebridge being interesting to watch- they were the teams really going for promotion so sucked the best from the rest. 
 

 

[Scott Foley - The Jam Tart]

It’s a fair point to question current standard in of any league and shouldn’t be dismissed as negative at all. 
For my tuppance worth, I’ve only watching the SWPL for the last 2 season and find the standard ok. I lived in the midlands for the previous 20 years and when not heading back up the road to watch Hearts, I would take in local football at various levels. How does the SWPL compare to that. It’s as good and it’s as bad. It’s all about the level. 
For me, we have to remember the level we are watching, we have some very talented players across the division who can really turn it on. However they are at this level for a reason. Be it consistency, drive, learning the game or attitude in general. 
Good players with ambition will and should take a crack at a higher level. Good players who just want to enjoy the game, will most likely stick at this level and coast. For some, this will be the highest level they can achieve. 
Not really answered if the standard has dropped so probably best just to ignore everything I’ve just written 🤣

[Ian Pethick]

2 minutes ago, Chunkycheese said:

I believe that perhaps the pride in playing for your local side has went- and that’s worth something that we Cornish peoples towns and villages should reflect on- lots of players travelling distances to play for the bigger teams- are players selfish, or don’t care about their area….. or are areas not doing enough to engage a sense of pride in their locality  

Has the quality of player deprecated, or are all the good players just playing for a select few teams meaning the games are uneven? Typically of the youth of today- want easy wins and struggle with hardships of defeat so go and “play with their mates in the pub leagues” 
 

You say that Liskeard, Wendron and St Austell are fantastic, but in reality they should be, and will be over the next 3-4 years Western league teams. Their budgets (apart from Wendron) mean they absolutely should be! 
 

The proposed, and collapse of the merger with the Western league has a lot to do with it. Lots of players jumping ship to get established in one of thd top 4 who were destined to go up- hence your comment about Bude- Newquay-Wadebridge being interesting to watch- they were the teams really going for promotion so sucked the best from the rest. 
 

 

Agree with most of what you have written, but take exception with the "typical of the youth of today" line.  Looking on as a man in his 50's, all I see is a generation that has to work longer and more irregular hours in the gig or zero hours economy, pays a fortune and piles up a lifetime of debt if they choose to go into higher education and has virtually no chance of every owning their own home (especially if they were born in a scenic part of Cornwall and don't have a wealthy relative to call upon). Just my thoughts though.

[Wetsuit]

Would be great to hear from a young players opinion on the topic

[Martin McHugh]

They're too busy  (distracted) to reply !!

 

 

😁 

MQx

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

I think the 2019-2020 restructure plays it's part here too. 

There was 1 step 6 league which was essentially split in half and 20 (ish) teams taken up into step 6 from the step 7 leagues, cue domino effect of teams moving up a step/league and of course you will find a lesser standard. A step 7 team playing at step 6 was and is still, in some cases, the same level of player in a higher league so it stands to reason there would be a drop in standard. No disrespect or discredit to those teams and players, they are playing at a higher standard and level than I ever could have, but I think that's the truth of it.

Further to that, teams in Cornwall, who may or may not have taken the promotion before, have moved on into step 5 further "weakening" the step 6 league.

We're going through a corrective period, I feel, where step 5 will be what was the old step 6, and step 6 the old step 7 and over time the gap between the top and bottom teams in the league should narrow. However, it will always exist in some way, as naturally that's how leagues work but there are a number of players, who for their own reasons don't want to play step 5 but are excellent players at step 6 and so those teams tend to do well with those players in it.

 

[Tamar.man]

 also you got to put into the mix   argyle , the crowds have doubled at argyle in the last few years,lot of youngsters go argyle, also illegal firesticks were you can watch any saturday afternoon premier league game or even argyle at 3 pm, there are not many youngsters attending swpl ,some youngsters work saturday jobs,  what i have seen in 18 months , i  think people like myself who float around matches tend to watch  TSWL matches , i watch callington  now and then as they are local , but i have also watched saltash and torpoint,and tavistock,im afraid there is only so many local footie fans to share,  

[Yourhavingalaugh]

Like most things, football is market driven. Too many clubs diluting the local game. What we want are players who seriously want to play football on a regular basis. 

Pop up clubs and teams with no foundations each year, usually set up to win trophies and motor up through the leagues are no good for the game of football. 

[Chunkycheese]

5 hours ago, Way Of The Park said:

Agree with most of what you have written, but take exception with the "typical of the youth of today" line.  Looking on as a man in his 50's, all I see is a generation that has to work longer and more irregular hours in the gig or zero hours economy, pays a fortune and piles up a lifetime of debt if they choose to go into higher education and has virtually no chance of every owning their own home (especially if they were born in a scenic part of Cornwall and don't have a wealthy relative to call upon). Just my thoughts though.

Not disparaging the youth of today at all. 
 

However, they do not need to pay back their degree unless they earn over s certain threshold. The economy in Cornwall means that the majority never get into jobs that elicit a high return. Students loans also cancelled after 25 years. 
 

I o however think competition has been diluted out of society and football is becoming too difficult a way for youths to get their kicks. Much easier to win on the x box! 

Then I look and see fixtures like this. Surely this is Sunday league football, these people would most likely be supporters of their local club but can’t as they are playing 

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

Thank all for the responses. A few thoughts on some of those.

Player Commitment / Availabliity: WOTP is, as usual, on the money. There may be an element of lesser commitment, but societal changes militate against Sat football. Not only have work patterns changed, with Mon - Fri 9 to 5 far from a reality for many working people, one needs to recognise the need to work overtime and the insecure nature of many jobs. People earn when they can and are not likely to spurn such opportunities to do so. Further, many young men are more actively involved with their children these days, including the ‘weekend dad’ whose access to parenting is at this time.

Some players aren’t committed, but how does this account for clubs like Torpoint and Wendron being able to field multiple teams? OTOH a Step 4 side has been without their (and that league’s) top striker for the opening games of the season. 
 

My reference was to the West division. In view of comments made, the East does  appear stronger. The socio-economic situation and demands upon players largely matches of Cornwall.

My post, however, was from a fan perspective. Personal circumstances are dictating where I watch my football this season, but setting that aside,  if I watch. NLS, SL and to a lesser extent the WL, I am way more likely to view a competitive game, with few matches entirely foregone conclusions. I find this more enjoyable that going to a game where the outcome is pretty much known at the outset. Using Liskeard as an example, there is such an inevitability of them racking 5+ goal victories against many of the lower half of the SWPL-W. Seven out of the last eight n the WCP Cup last season gave an indication of the relative divisional strengths.

Whilst many Blues fans will enjoy the torrent of goal action, in what way does such a level of competition prepare them, the Dron, St A and the like for promotion and the challenge of the WL the following season. It doesn’t.

Such predictability can also be evidenced by Rappo and Deacs pre-season predictions. So many exact place finishes were right last year, with the top, middle and lower third of the table going to type, save for Bude’s  excellent season. 

The tricky thing for SWPL-W is that better players will want to play Step 5 or above, whilst promising youngsters often prefer the play-with-your-mates approach, in what is now leagues below the top division of the St Piran League. Some players are lost to the time consuming nature of playing at a good standard. A Step 5 broadly Cornwall and Devon League might arrest such a loss and who doesn’t like cross Tamar clashes between the better teams on both sides of the Tamar? From a fan perspective again, the travel to say games becomes more manageable. This **has to** happen in my view. Where are we now on his following the failure of the WL to absorb the SWPL via merger? Is anyone working on this, or is everyone fatigued from the fallout from last season?

It won’t be popular, but maybe less teams, with good players concentrated over a smaller array of teams may not be a terrible thing. 
 

Like Tamar Man I’ve spent most of the recent times watching clubs in the Tamar Valley area. Tavi the most, lots of  Liskeard, a fair bit of Saltash, but Lanson and Cally too. Take the latter as an example, as they are my closest club currently, I’m far more likely to want to watch them now as they’ve more local lads playing for them than the previous recent iterations that has essentially been a Plymouth team and much of the support coming from there. If clubs like his and Lanson are to survive this is surely the way forward. People moan about crowds, but it has been good to see Cally prosper via some Friday night games. I love these under the lights! More local derbies to follow suit elsewhere is worth a try, unless you have a social club attached that takes good takings via a Sat 3pm regime.

 

(BTW some will no doubt remark on Truro City being a ‘Plymouth’ team but the higher you go it will not really be possible to have 11 Cornwall based players in the side).

On 21/08/2023 at 10:12, The Jam Tart said:

[Ian Pethick]

54 minutes ago, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

Thank all for the responses. A few thoughts on some of those.

Player Commitment / Availabliity: WOTP is, as usual, on the money. There may be an element of lesser commitment, but societal changes militate against Sat football. Not only have work patterns changed, with Mon - Fri 9 to 5 far from a reality for many working people, one needs to recognise the need to work overtime and the insecure nature of many jobs. People earn when they can and are not likely to spurn such opportunities to do so. Further, many young men are more actively involved with their children these days, including the ‘weekend dad’ whose access to parenting is at this time.

Some players aren’t committed, but how does this account for clubs like Torpoint and Wendron being able to field multiple teams? OTOH a Step 4 side has been without their (and that league’s) top striker for the opening games of the season. 
 

My reference was to the West division. In view of comments made, the East does  appear stronger. The socio-economic situation and demands upon players largely matches of Cornwall.

My post, however, was from a fan perspective. Personal circumstances are dictating where I watch my football this season, but setting that aside,  if I watch. NLS, SL and to a lesser extent the WL, I am way more likely to view a competitive game, with few matches entirely foregone conclusions. I find this more enjoyable that going to a game where the outcome is pretty much known at the outset. Using Liskeard as an example, there is such an inevitability of them racking 5+ goal victories against many of the lower half of the SWPL-W. Seven out of the last eight n the WCP Cup last season gave an indication of the relative divisional strengths.

Whilst many Blues fans will enjoy the torrent of goal action, in what way does such a level of competition prepare them, the Dron, St A and the like for promotion and the challenge of the WL the following season. It doesn’t.

Such predictability can also be evidenced by Rappo and Deacs pre-season predictions. So many exact place finishes were right last year, with the top, middle and lower third of the table going to type, save for Bude’s  excellent season. 

The tricky thing for SWPL-W is that better players will want to play Step 5 or above, whilst promising youngsters often prefer the play-with-your-mates approach, in what is now leagues below the top division of the St Piran League. Some players are lost to the time consuming nature of playing at a good standard. A Step 5 broadly Cornwall and Devon League might arrest such a loss and who doesn’t like cross Tamar clashes between the better teams on both sides of the Tamar? From a fan perspective again, the travel to say games becomes more manageable. This **has to** happen in my view. Where are we now on his following the failure of the WL to absorb the SWPL via merger? Is anyone working on this, or is everyone fatigued from the fallout from last season?

It won’t be popular, but maybe less teams, with good players concentrated over a smaller array of teams may not be a terrible thing. 
 

Like Tamar Man I’ve spent most of the recent times watching clubs in the Tamar Valley area. Tavi the most, lots of  Liskeard, a fair bit of Saltash, but Lanson and Cally too. Take the latter as an example, as they are my closest club currently, I’m far more likely to want to watch them now as they’ve more local lads playing for them than the previous recent iterations that has essentially been a Plymouth team and much of the support coming from there. If clubs like his and Lanson are to survive this is surely the way forward. People moan about crowds, but it has been good to see Cally prosper via some Friday night games. I love these under the lights! More local derbies to follow suit elsewhere is worth a try, unless you have a social club attached that takes good takings via a Sat 3pm regime.

 

(BTW some will no doubt remark on Truro City being a ‘Plymouth’ team but the higher you go it will not really be possible to have 11 Cornwall based players in the side).

Excellent summary.

I don't think we really know the full detail of what went on in back rooms to cause the collapse of the WL/SWPL merger, but it does feel like the Peninsula West has been the big loser here. As I've already said, I do fear for the future of this league and worry that it will eventually go the same way as the Combo and ECPL in being part of a St Pirans structure covering all the organised league football in the county. The step 5 Western League will undoubtedly expand and take the better step 6 Devon & Cornwall clubs, it does appear to be what the FA want and they will just impose this.

One last note, Sunday football (and even midweek afternoon leagues) in the area of London I live in is very strong, and getting stronger, with players even dropping out of step 2 and 3 clubs to play. It does show that there is still a big yearning for people to play non league football, as long as it fits around their work and family life.

[Chunkycheese]

Wild rumours circulating that the merger is back on????

[Dave Deacon]

27 minutes ago, Chunkycheese said:

Wild rumours circulating that the merger is back on????

This would be in contrast to what was suggested on the RAPPO & DEACS FRIDAY Fix podcast last week! 

 

[Chunkycheese]

2 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

This would be in contrast to what was suggested on the RAPPO & DEACS FRIDAY Fix podcast last week! 

 

Very interesting 

The general consensus was that the FA gave the opportunity for it to be worked out down here amicably last year, but seeing this failed that it will be imposed this year 

Call it a merger or restructure, but I feel it’s definitely needed

[Dave Deacon]

24 minutes ago, Chunkycheese said:

it will be imposed this year 

Surely it would be courteous of the FA to have informed by now all the clubs involved if it is intended to happen for next season 2024-25?

[Chunkycheese]

36 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

This would be in contrast to what was suggested on the RAPPO & DEACS FRIDAY Fix podcast last week! 

 

Phil seems to allude to a restructure across the divisions and a meeting with FA  in September 

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

1 hour ago, Chunkycheese said:

Wild rumours circulating that the merger is back on????

No, not at all. Merger with WL should not be back on, but work towards and Cornwall, Devon and maybe South Somerset Step 5 should be. No knowledge of **anything** being worked on!

[Chunkycheese]

Will be interesting to see how it unfolds. 
 

Lots of clubs up country not keen on the influx of Cornish clubs into step 5

[Dave Deacon]

Just now, Chunkycheese said:

Lots of clubs up country not keen on the influx of Cornish clubs into step 5

Not keen! Well, they've been too used to it all but a closed shop!

[Chunkycheese]

4 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Not keen! Well, they've been too used to it all but a closed shop!

I think it’s exciting for Cornish clubs getting promoted and doing all the travelling 

When you’ve been in the league for years then you get 3/4 4 hours trips added in a season I can see why they would be less keen 

In reality should any step 5 football have 8 hour round trips for a game? No wonder some players don’t want to play step 5

[We Two]

Several of the naturally gifted players that we have seen in the SWPL are happy to remain to be so called big fish in a small pond and have little intention of having to work hard to become step 5 material.
In many ways who can blame them for collecting the fees that are touted in the SWPL  that are simply not available to players in higher leagues who have to travel.
The chances of a player from this region getting a professional contract are remote if all the reasons quoted on this forum for not stepping up their commitment to the game are true.

 

[Ian Pethick]

2 hours ago, Chunkycheese said:

Very interesting 

The general consensus was that the FA gave the opportunity for it to be worked out down here amicably last year, but seeing this failed that it will be imposed this year 

Call it a merger or restructure, but I feel it’s definitely needed

That's my feeling Mr Cheese. Probably won't happen by 2024/25, but sooner or later the FA will impose a merger (or, more likely, a takeover).

2 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

Not keen! Well, they've been too used to it all but a closed shop!

From what Jake Ash said on the podcast a few weeks, the Bristol/Bath based clubs would have welcomed a merger,an east/west step 5 split and the chance to see the back of the Cornish clubs. Mousehole and Saltash last season were too good for them.

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

Phil Hiscox on the CS Podcast, as you'd expect, made a decent fist of defending the role and successes of the SWPL generally.

However, my point was about the SWPL - W specifically. Today Liskeard who've been beating teams with ease in the West got hit for 5 at Creddy. This follows being well beaten and letting in 4 in the WCP Cup Final v Oke.

I genuinely think the Blues will prove to be the beat in the West, but twice in succession they've now been beaten by comparable top drawer East sides. That is disappointing.

At no time did I (at least) use insulting phrases like 'pub league'. The SWPL - W is certainly not that. I do, however, hold to the view that there are too many predictable mismatches leading to pretty predictable outcomes. Others might find that appealing, I don't.

Apart from the occasional midweek game, I'll mostly reserve SWPL-W watching for games between the better sides on a Saturday and take in NLS, SL & WL fixtures mostly. Sure, as Rappo said, there are *some* watchable aides - Blues, Dron, Bridgers, St A and Newquay and Bude can be good on some says. At best, 6/17. That isn't great is it?

Ironically a change in personal circumstances means I have had to change my spectating patterns anyway!

[silly billy]

30 minutes ago, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

Phil Hiscox on the CS Podcast, as you'd expect, made a decent fist of defending the role and successes of the SWPL generally.

However, my point was about the SWPL - W specifically. Today Liskeard who've been beating teams with ease in the West got hit for 5 at Creddy. This follows being well beaten and letting in 4 in the WCP Cup Final v Oke.

I genuinely think the Blues will prove to be the beat in the West, but twice in succession they've now been beaten by comparable top drawer East sides. That is disappointing.

At no time did I (at least) use insulting phrases like 'pub league'. The SWPL - W is certainly not that. I do, however, hold to the view that there are too many predictable mismatches leading to pretty predictable outcomes. Others might find that appealing, I don't.

Apart from the occasional midweek game, I'll mostly reserve SWPL-W watching for games between the better sides on a Saturday and take in NLS, SL & WL fixtures mostly. Sure, as Rappo said, there are *some* watchable aides - Blues, Dron, Bridgers, St A and Newquay and Bude can be good on some says. At best, 6/17. That isn't great is it?

Ironically a change in personal circumstances means I have had to change my spectating patterns anyway!

Add Dobwalls to that list 👍

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

18 minutes ago, silly billy said:

Add Dobwalls to that list 👍

Certainly a quirky ground with character!