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Charter Standard

Martin Eddy
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Martin Eddy Premier Contributor

Martin Eddy

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Our club has submitted our details but they have been refused because we do not have anybody with first aid qualification that applies to football. We have 3 people who have either work place or RNLI qualifications but that is not good enough? For work place rep. It’s a 3 day course run by either the Red Cross or St. John’s ambulance, and with the RNLI it takes years of continual experience. The FA course I believe is a 2 hour course. Having been a work place rep and doing the FA course I know which is more substantial.
Are the FA being short sighted in taking this view when people have given up there own time to be qualified and be told it’s not good enough. Then people wander why we cannot get volunteers.

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Dave Bartlam Premier Contributor

Dave Bartlam

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1 hour ago, Postman Pat said:

Dave Bartlam in no way am I having a go at you or Peggy because you do not set the guideline, and both do an excellent job. Could you help us understand the FA’s line of thinking please because I find their logic hard to understand.

When I was on the last Emergency Aid course - we had a consultant on it! I stand with you on this, I think it is utterly ridiculous that the FA don't accept formally recognised first aid courses or professional qualifications. I've raised the point before and was told it was something they were looking to change.

The only thing I can say is that if you hold a Red Cross (or another recognised organisation) first aid certificate - the FA don't make any money from it. By ensuring that you have at least one EA trained person in your team (two if they are players), the FA make a nice buck across all of the league's in the country.

Whilst it is a pain - it is just a two hour course. The Trelawny League do pay for one person per team to take the course so in reality, you're only giving up a few hours of your time to get the accreditation.

Personally, I think it's mental and it frustrates me.

 

My advice is to get someone on the course in January because if this hasn't been rectified, you will lose Charter Standard Status and will have to submit the application again, which is more work than the annual health check.

We did try to run a Development Night last Thursday but cancelled it after we only had four replies from our emails (each saying that they couldn't find anyone to represent their Club). 

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Pegs Premier Contributor

Pegs

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5 hours ago, Postman Pat said:

Our club has submitted our details but they have been refused because we do not have anybody with first aid qualification that applies to football. We have 3 people who have either work place or RNLI qualifications but that is not good enough? For work place rep. It’s a 3 day course run by either the Red Cross or St. John’s ambulance, and with the RNLI it takes years of continual experience. The FA course I believe is a 2 hour course. Having been a work place rep and doing the FA course I know which is more substantial.
Are the FA being short sighted in taking this view when people have given up there own time to be qualified and be told it’s not good enough. Then people wander why we cannot get volunteers.

Are you sure this is nothing to do with not having a reserve team? 

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Martin Eddy Premier Contributor

Martin Eddy

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Dave surely that proves my point, if you had to cancel an evening because not one club could get anyone to attend. And now you say we should get someone to attend a meaningless course teaching people to suck eggs. What happens if the club cannot get anyone to attend, would that club get kicked out the league because of one piece of paper? This is a time when participation in football is dropping at grassroots level and the people that are trying are being made to jump through meaningless hoops.

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Dave Bartlam Premier Contributor

Dave Bartlam

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53 minutes ago, Postman Pat said:

Dave surely that proves my point, if you had to cancel an evening because not one club could get anyone to attend. And now you say we should get someone to attend a meaningless course teaching people to suck eggs. What happens if the club cannot get anyone to attend, would that club get kicked out the league because of one piece of paper? This is a time when participation in football is dropping at grassroots level and the people that are trying are being made to jump through meaningless hoops.

I've not said the course is meaningless - I don't think there is anyone that can call an Emergency Aid course meaningless. There have been many people whose lives have been saved up and down the country by the actions of first aiders who have only attended the FA's emergency aid course - so it's certainly not meaningless. I have however said that it is a bit silly that the FA don't yet accept any other form of First Aid course.

Yes, teams can be kicked out of League's for not holding Charter Standard if that league mandates that it's a requirement - they can be charged for failing to comply with an FA initiative.  Charter Standard is all about having a framework in place with the correct people who are adequately qualified. I am a big supporter of it not only because it opens up the doors for clubs to attain vital funds, but it also ensures you have people at your club who are adequately qualified to deal with certain situations. First Aid, Safeguarding and Welfare, coaching badges etc all adequate.

With all due respect (take this as you will), a Club of Redruth's stature (Men's teams, vets team and youth) should have absolutely no problem with attaining Charter Standard Status and keeping the Health Check in date each season. I run a club with two Flexi League teams and a Sunday League team - I hold a spreadsheet of all the people with the relevant competencies and when I see that they are due to expire (within three months), I book them on the relevant courses. Whole Game also does this for you.

The Emergency Aid course is literally a few hours long and costs just £25 per person - which we will refund as a league (one per team in the league). It shouldn't be an issue.

I'm probably not the right person to talk to about [having an issue with] Charter Standard because I am a fan of it, having benefited from it on a number of occasions. 

 

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Dave Deacon Premier Contributor

Dave Deacon

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Isn’t the issue here, rather than the Charter Standard matter, more having to attend a course because the FA aren’t prepared to accept what would appear to be acceptable alternative qualifications?

https://help.thefa.com/support/solutions/articles/7000040914-i-am-a-health-care-professional-can-i-use-my-professional-training-instead-of-completing-a-first-aid

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Dave Bartlam Premier Contributor

Dave Bartlam

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16 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Isn’t the issue here, rather than the Charter Standard matter, more having to attend a course because the FA aren’t prepared to accept what would appear to be acceptable alternative qualifications?

https://help.thefa.com/support/solutions/articles/7000040914-i-am-a-health-care-professional-can-i-use-my-professional-training-instead-of-completing-a-first-aid

Absolutely. Personally, I'm of the opinion that if you hold a First Aid (Defibrillator qualified) certificate from a professional body, that should be accepted by the Football Association. That's where the issue lies. 

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Dave Bartlam Premier Contributor

Dave Bartlam

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11 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Can the leagues in the county not get together to express their concern and put their case to the Cornwall FA to make their concern heard at higher levels?

I've raised the point before but it didn't get anywhere. There's nothing to stop people proposing a rule change - however, I'm not sure if this is that simple because Charter Standard also comes under a few other realms - Football Foundation etc. The Football Foundation are the body which pays out the majority of grants from the Government etc - many grants of which are not paid unless Clubs have Charter Standard Status. Whether it not the FF mandate that this qualification is held, I'm not sure.

If it is the Club's will, they can put it to the County FA whose obligation is then to pass it up - it doesn't have to be done en mass - they should listen to just one voice.

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Dave Deacon Premier Contributor

Dave Deacon

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45 minutes ago, Postman Pat said:

Only just come to head dave. Dave deacon summed up my post in that the course is meaningless if you are better qualified. It's okay for someone starting out. Personally think basic first aid should be on the school curriculum.

So even better reason to get your County FA involved I reckon, They are there to work with and for all the football teams in the County.

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Martin Eddy Premier Contributor

Martin Eddy

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All sorted thanks dave it's just me having a  moan. It just seems silly to make someone do something that they are more than qualified to do already. Older people like myself who volunteer are starting to get fewer with time and it's a real struggle for clubs to get the help required. Keep up the good work you do.👍

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peggy78 Premier Contributor

peggy78

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Just to add to this, there are a small range of courses that do count instead of the Level 1 EA as per http://www.thefa.com/learning/courses/accepted-non-fa-medical-courses
 

From 1 August 2018 the following courses will be accepted instead of The FA Level 1 IFAiF at the point of recertification

  • Hampden National Sports First Aid course
  • World Rugby First Aid in Rugby Level 1 course
  • RFU Emergency First Aid in Rugby Union Level 1 course
  • Irish Rugby Union SAFE Level 1 course
  • Corobeus Sports Consultancy Emergency First Aid in Sport course
  • St Johns Sports First Aid
  • The Red Cross First Aid for Sports Course
  • Fitness First Aid Level 3 award in First Aid for Sport (RQF)
  • ITC Level 3 Award in First Aid for Sport, Exercise and Fitness ITC Certificate for Sport Exercise and Fitness at SCQF Level 6

Allied Health Professionals

All health care professionals are required to initially attend The FA Level 1 IFAiF or higher. At the point of re-certification after three years, allied health care professionals must show evidence of their professional qualifications and relevant training, which must be one of:

  • Advanced Life Support
  • Advanced Trauma Life Support
  • Pre-Hospital Trauma Life Support
  • Paediatric intermediate life support
  • Paediatric advanced life support
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peggy78 Premier Contributor

peggy78

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6 hours ago, Postman Pat said:

Playing devils advocate( shit stirring) Peggy. How is it a doctor or consultant do not qualify. 😎

I don't know is the honest answer and I can completely understand the frustration of it. That being said, that is the criteria laid out and it needs to be met. Have you managed to get someone on a course Martin?

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