Foul Language

[We Two]

Foul Language discussions have occupied a lot of space on this forum over the season, which makes last weeks Cornish Guardian headline quite interesting.
It read:- Ban on swearing and in the report of the court case that followed, it stated that the offender was given a five year court order, banning him from swearing in a public place.
The person concerned also has a drink problem, and a ban was also issued regarding  drinking in a public place.
No doubt his inebriated condition contributed to his foul mouthed tirades, but there is an interesting section of the ban that is the law of this land, and is en'forceable if the use of foul language or threats or causing nuisance or obstruction, that would cause any person to feel offence, harassment, alarm or distress, directly or indirectly.
It follows therefore that if a supporter or club official feels offended by any of the above, he/she need not rely on the referee to deal with it, they can deal with it themselves, IF  they feel sufficiently agrieved.
Food for thought in some cases that have surfaced on this forum i think.

[We Two]

By its very nature life is complicated, but unless there is a determined effort by officialdom, (the Guardian report suggests that that may be the case in some areas ) the few will continue to offend the majority.     The majority of fans at football matches are boisterous perhaps, but well behaved overall.
I wonder what impact on attendances the absence of foul and abusive language would have, I'm sure we have all experienced it, and many people refuse to take their children and grandchildren to matches because of it.
These youngsters are the future of the game, and this is what is at stake.

[Bobjfh]

This legislation cannot and would never be considered at football grounds at this level, by enforcement agencies / prosecution agencies or the Courts - Public Space Protection (Banning) Orders and the criminal equivalent of the Public Order Act are used as a public protection issue not sporting behaviour, unless specifically deemed in the 'public' interest.

Every club at this level is Charter Standard and must have a 'Code of Conduct' displayed for spectators attending the ground (which includes NO Abusive Language) - any abusive behaviour by spectators should result in a home club committee member or representative having the abusive fan removed - simple. 

This time last year, the forum was full of the Respect initiative and meetings to be held with FA / clubs / players and refs - this happened in recreational leagues but not to my knowledge in any Step league? Referees and Assistant Referees have plenty of power to stop abuse by players / officials, whether to officials / at each other or at spectators - all of which we have all witnessed on a weekly basis - do they - virtually never. Do clubs take action against their players for abusive language - never.

Until Referees deal with this, it will never change - nobody want to see players cautioned or sent off for foul / abusive / threatening behaviour or managers banned from the touch line BUT until it does happen some players and teams will continue to do it. Furthermore spectators will not bring young children or grounds to watch the sport they love as they are more likely to pick up new expletives than skills.

[100%cornish]

Just hand out ear plugs to the spectators bad language is part of the game im sure people would miss the docile tones of Mr Gilbert in the Bodmin dugout out hes just a example but what a good manager

[Bobjfh]

Fantastic manager and real gent (away from the dugout) 

[We Two]

3 hours ago, 100%cornish said:

Just hand out ear plugs to the spectators bad language is part of the game im sure people would miss the docile tones of Mr Gilbert in the Bodmin dugout out hes just a example but what a good manager

This is the " if you don't like it  don't listen'' attitude that allows the problem to continue. With regard to the legislation not being en'forceable at sports arenas, how then has the person in the Guardian report  been banned from swearing in any public place in Cornwall, surely sports arenas are public places.
A committee member may attempt to eject an offender, but if he/she refuses to go, the police can be asked to attend and remove the person, you are not above the law at a football ground.
Whether the ban WILL be enforced is another matter, but lets not lose sight of the legislation that exists to curb foul language if it offends.

[Tommy Matthews]

Very difficult for local referees at times as the problem is never dealt with from the top down. A couple of weeks ago Sam Allardyce (the former leader of our England team) was literally spitting vitriolic abuse at the referee while fourth official Mike Jones stood pathetically beside him doing absolutely nothing. 

Until we deal with the issues at top level we can never really expect our referees to have much of a chance to stop it locally. 

[Martin Eddy]

I have said this before when the foul and abusive rule was brought in back during the 80'summer there was a player sent off in our first game but wheneal everyone watched match of the day later on the players were effing and jeffing all through the the programme and no one was sanctioned. There lies the problem 

[quiksilver]

6 hours ago, 100%cornish said:

Just hand out ear plugs to the spectators bad language is part of the game im sure people would miss the docile tones of Mr Gilbert in the Bodmin dugout out hes just a example but what a good manager

That's the type of attitude that means I will no longer take my two young lads to football. Last time I went with them season before last a well known manager was spouting the usual amount of feffing and jeffing, I politely asked him to mind his language, he told me to f**k of over the other side as this was his area and if I didn't like it f**k off. His side were winning 3-0, and he was appealing for a throw in!

you may think I'm being too sensitive, blah blah blah, but have not taken my children since. Families not going now means less and less supporters (and therefore less income for clubs) in the future. 

Whether a crackdown on foul and abusive language is enforceable or not, who knows, but feel it's needed to bring families/supporters of the future back to clubs

[We Two]

I agree with most of your post Tommy with one exception, and that is that we can set an example to others by not cherry picking the rules that the referee has at his disposal.
I attended a local football match, when the referee warned the players that foul language would not be tolerated.   One individual thought it didn't apply to him, continued his vitriol and was promptly dispatched to the dressing room.
Nobody else decided to test the refs resolve to keep his word and after that the game became all the more enjoyable.
 

[Tommy Matthews]

Absolutely agree with you. 

[Nanks]

5 hours ago, We Two said:

This is the " if you don't like it  don't listen'' attitude that allows the problem to continue. With regard to the legislation not being en'forceable at sports arenas, how then has the person in the Guardian report  been banned from swearing in any public place in Cornwall, surely sports arenas are public places.
A committee member may attempt to eject an offender, but if he/she refuses to go, the police can be asked to attend and remove the person, you are not above the law at a football ground.
Whether the ban WILL be enforced is another matter, but lets not lose sight of the legislation that exists to curb foul language if it offends.

The guy in question is a complete and utter *****. He should be shot 

[hoppit]

Swearing is a problem of society as a whole not just on the soccer pitch. People who swear all week every week are not going to stop just because  they are running around a field, it's in their DNA, it will never be controlled regardless of who does what.

[Bruegel the Elder]

4 hours ago, hoppit said:

Swearing is a problem of society as a whole not just on the soccer pitch. People who swear all week every week are not going to stop just because  they are running around a field, it's in their DNA, it will never be controlled regardless of who does what.

Rubbish! Self control is not a genetic issue (except to the extent that swearing indicates low intelligence). Try the carrot and stick approach; offer each player a tenner for not swearing throughout the match, you get little or no swearing. Guarantee a red card and fine, again you'll get little or no swearing. Give no incentive or punishment and the players will let their inner thug out to play. So swearing can and should be controlled either by the individual (unlikely) or externally by the clubs and/or officials. It is apathy from the F.A.'s at all levels. No part played by deoxyribonucleic acid!

[hoppit]

5 minutes ago, Bruegel the Elder said:

Rubbish! Self control is not a genetic issue (except to the extent that swearing indicates low intelligence). Try the carrot and stick approach; offer each player a tenner for not swearing throughout the match, you get little or no swearing. Guarantee a red card and fine, again you'll get little or no swearing. Give no incentive or punishment and the players will let their inner thug out to play. So swearing can and should be controlled either by the individual (unlikely) or externally by the clubs and/or officials. It is apathy from the F.A.'s at all levels. No part played by deoxyribonucleic acid!

Well l was a ref for twenty years and always sent players off for foul and abusive language, never made any difference whatsoever, and as for bribing the players to not swear never heard of anything so stupid. The lack of intelligence comment doesn't stand up either, in my experience the worst players to control were policeman and teachers because they are in control all week and found it difficult to accept that they were not in control on the field of play. Maybe not in their DNA but swearing is ingrained in society nothing to do with intelligence. Swearing in sport will never be stopped as long as it's an accepted part of society.

[We Two]

If swearing is so ingrained and accepted in society, why is it that we don't hear the majority of public speakers using that sort of language when addressing their audiences.     This of course does not mean that they don't swear, but it does suggest that they have a respect for their audience that stops them from using language that may offend. 
This is where intelligence comes in to play, i.e. having the intelligence and respect for others to acknowledge ( as has been stated by contributers to this thread ) that many people are offended by abuse and desist from bringing their families to a game, resulting from a loss of income both at the gate and in the clubhouse, which longterm will affect all concerned with the game.
People who accept foul language should consider those who don't, and perhaps everyone will benefit including, importantly, the football clubs.

 

[Tommy Matthews]

Some of the issues are also that referees don't always get backed up. Say a referee sends a player or two off for foul and abusive language then that team marks him down which affects his chances of promotion. He's left wondering if doing the right thing will be worth the bother. 

[hoppit]

Points deduction may be the answer, but only if the red card is for foul language.

[We Two]

Foul Language is the title of this thread, and although some contributors believe that foul language is accepted and tolerated by society in the modern era, it's blatently obvious  from comments on this forum, that there are a substantial number of football supporters who would like to see at the very least a determined effort to reduce swearing both on and off the pitch.
Are they to be ignored by those in charge of the game. or do they deserve a voice, and the respect that the  authorities make such a fuss about.
As I said earlier, you can't cherry pick which rules to enforce, or for that matter who to enforce them on.

1 minute ago, hoppit said:

Points deduction may be the answer, but only if the red card is for foul language.

I will add to that a 10 minute sin bin, and then a red card if it continues.  Team mates will soon get tired of being a man short.

[quiksilver]

Saying swearing is part of modern life is no excuse.  If i was to pass someone on the street and start swearing at them in an aggressive manner i would be in trouble with the law, and numerous people would probably intervene and it would be frowned upon.  Yet do it at a football match, which some clubs are trying to encourage families to attend, its shrugged off, as part of the game.

The ironic thing is if, on this football forum, i type a post or reply to someone and start calling then a stupid f**k**g c***, i would have my post removed and possibly banned from the site!

[Dave Deacon]

36 minutes ago, quiksilver said:

stupid f**k**g c***, i would have my post removed and possibly banned from the site!

For the record - the suggested words might be removed but initially no ban would be imposed! ?

I personally take this stance, whereas some of my moderator colleagues might differ!

[TURNIP TED]

I think the point is , there is a rule for foul or abusive language in our game. Refs should stick by this as they would for handball or a foul.

If they are not going to action against this, then scrap the rule ?