RESULTS - Wednesday 9 August 2023

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

1 hour ago, TomTom said:

I think this shows one of the problems with the laws of the game. Referees get questioned because of spectators inability to just read, understand and interpret them. 

If a well seasoned football enthusiast like Dave sees a referee decision and cannot understand why a sanction may have been  given, what hope is there for the average fan? 

The LOTG need to be simplified.... a lot. They keep updating them and complicating them for every eventuality while fans are quoting laws from 1990s. 

We have individuals who get paid large sums of money in the professional game whom also don't know or understand the rules. So I'm not sure we should be holding your average football fan/enthusiast to any higher standard. They learn the rules from what they hear and see on the Tele so they are the folks that need to brush up. 

Referees also need to carry the can as they enforce mythical rules such as can't say leave it, or you have to put a name on it. 

IFAB, the law writers, have had a go at simplifying the rules. 

You can see them here https://www.footballrules.com/

[Footy follower]

2 minutes ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

We have individuals who get paid large sums of money in the professional game whom also don't know or understand the rules. So I'm not sure we should be holding your average football fan/enthusiast to any higher standard. They learn the rules from what they hear and see on the Tele so they are the folks that need to brush up. 

Referees also need to carry the can as they enforce mythical rules such as can't say leave it, or you have to put a name on it. 

IFAB, the law writers, have had a go at simplifying the rules. 

You can see them here https://www.footballrules.com/

Not technically mythical though is it.......99% of times that a player says leave it he will be distracting the opponent which is then breaking the rules

[Dave Deacon]

4 minutes ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

We have individuals who get paid large sums of money in the professional game whom also don't know or understand the rules. So I'm not sure we should be holding your average football fan/enthusiast to any higher standard. They learn the rules from what they hear and see on the Tele so they are the folks that need to brush up. 

Referees also need to carry the can as they enforce mythical rules such as can't say leave it, or you have to put a name on it. 

IFAB, the law writers, have had a go at simplifying the rules. 

You can see them here https://www.footballrules.com/

Over 100 pages on the laws of the game! Is this before or after the law writers have looked at simplifying things?

 

[FootballChat]

24 minutes ago, Footy follower said:

Yeh I agree with you Dave.....if a player makes a genuine attempt for the ball but does end up committing a foul leading to a penalty...why should he be booked......obviously it depends if it's reckless etc.

Also not the refs fault as just following rules.

This is exactly the case. Had there been a genuine attempt for the ball then there'd be no yellow card.

However, if no attempt to play the ball is made (I understand this was a body check/block rather than an attempted tackle) then a yellow card is still applicable for preventing a promising attack.

[Dave Deacon]

So to sum this up, what we're saying here is that because the foul took place inside the penalty area, 99% of the time it's going to end in a card being produced?

[FootballChat]

23 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

So to sum this up, what we're saying here is that because the foul took place inside the penalty area, 99% of the time it's going to end in a card being produced?

Not if there's a genuine attempt to challenge/play the ball or if it's not deemed as a promising attack (rare if we're in the penalty area)

A yellow card should only be produced if the foul is deemed as reckless or if it breaks up a promising attack with no attempt to play the ball (shirt pull, push, body check etc)

An earnest attempt of a tackle that isn't reckless and results in a penalty is punishment enough.

Here is the relevant bit of law via the simplied version of the laws:

https://www.footballrules.com/offences-sanctions/yellow-card

[Footy follower]

And what we are also saying is.....make the foul....take a yellow.....and a pen may be saved.......but outside the area where there's still work to be done.......don't risk an automatic red

 

However....a lot of these rules get brought in by players/managers attempts to bend the rules/cheat 

[Knighter]

Don't usually comment on here but just a few pointers in the madness - Sticker a fantastic club run in the right was by brilliant people , facilities were amazing from the changing rooms to the pitch which as always was immaculate . Their team are very well coached by good people and have some very talented lads who perhaps a little unlucky with a few of the goals on the night and kept going right until the end , very harsh to say they were pumped as the simply wern't. 

They as a club will be fine and as has always been the case some other teams take their better players but they bring others through in the right way and probably an example to all of how it should be done, and I include ourselves in that before anyone starts talking about budgets etc , different clubs have different ways of doing things that's just the way it is. 

Thought the ref did ok if a bit picky and the pen was a pen but not a yellow for me, don't think talking about decisions is a problem as that's all part of the game as long as it doesn't get personal as we need the officials to have a game , he did fine on the night.

Appreciate this is a forum for opinions which is great but also important to note every club has different targets and levels they can get to so to be hard on clubs doing it their way is a bit harsh in my opinion, hope Sticker do well this season as with all the other clubs, Cornish Football is in a good place . 

[Dave Deacon]

47 minutes ago, FootballChat said:

Here is the relevant bit of law via the simplied version of the laws:

https://www.footballrules.com/offences-sanctions/yellow-card

Good link thanks 

[Dave Bartlam]

How many fouls did the player commit prior to that foul, Dave? There's something else that may have played a part in the referees thinking. 

[Scott Foley - The Jam Tart]

They old saying, the law is an ass is quite fitting for football. Updating the laws has definitely not improved matters. 
Also, I would bet everyone’s next mortgage payments that not many players, let alone fans know the LOTG. 

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

2 hours ago, Footy follower said:

Not technically mythical though is it.......99% of times that a player says leave it he will be distracting the opponent which is then breaking the rules

I'd say less than 1% of the time it's actually verbally distracting an opponent.

More often than not it is an instruction to a team mate which is not an offence. I don't know if you are a referee or not but when players are shouting at you, he can't say leave it, and they believe that to be blanket rule for the phrase it's generally referees that have perpetuated that myth. 

And That was just one example anyway. 

 

 

[Chunkycheese]

• stops a promising attack by the other team, usually by committing a foul or handball (there is no card issued if a penalty kick is awarded for a foul that stops a promising attack and was an attempt to play the ball)
• denies the other team an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick for a foul that was an attempt to play the balL

appears contradictory????

[davegrose]

19 hours ago, Chunkycheese said:

No one has criticised any player- as a team however they look one of the weakest in the league- I think Mullion beat them convincingly the week previous? This is a forum for debating teams and no malice intended, but it is men’s football. 
 

One for the management- Why can’t Sticker seem to attract decent players anymore?
Players playing for St Dennis/Foxhole who would improve the team? The club have fantastic facilities. Has Haiden left for Wadebridge? 
 

Avery would make a difference with his leadership- I watched the reserves in pre season and they looked to have some very good players. 

Not every amateur footballer lives in the the dutchy where an away trip can be a 6 hour round trip. 
 

Appalling? I disagree completely. These are the best players ever had, 

More clubs further up the pyramid than ever, players fitter and stronger than ever and certainly more professional. 
 

The days of players drinking the night before the game long gone. 
 

I fear you have some rose tinted glasses on of the past when teams refused to get promoted 

I'd prefer it if u didn't offer players from st Dennis to sticker mate,it's hard enough keeping the ones we got as it is,tell them to look at nanpeans squad instead 🥳

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

1 minute ago, Chunkycheese said:

• stops a promising attack by the other team, usually by committing a foul or handball (there is no card issued if a penalty kick is awarded for a foul that stops a promising attack and was an attempt to play the ball)
• denies the other team an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick for a foul that was an attempt to play the balL

appears contradictory????

In what way? 

Stopping Promising Attack = Yellow Card

Denies obvious goal scoring opportunity = Red Card

Where either of the above offences occur and it is an attempt / challenge for the ball the sanction is equal to one less i.e. Red becomes yellow, and yellow becomes nothing.

[Chunkycheese]

I certainly think there’s a problem at Sticker. Not recruiting any players and destined for the St Pirans league looking at first two games. 

Very easy to take the moral high ground and clap and congratulate one another, but surely they’ve moved past this and want to be competitive on the pitch 

Not discrediting any of the work that goes on in the background. 
 

There are some problems when you get messages like this 

5 minutes ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

In what way? 

Stopping Promising Attack = Yellow Card

Denies obvious goal scoring opportunity = Red Card

Where either of the above offences occur and it is an attempt / challenge for the ball the sanction is equal to one less i.e. Red becomes yellow, and yellow becomes nothing.

With the incident the other night a player had made a run into the box. A sticker player has blocked his run 

 

• stops a promising attack by the other team, usually by committing a foul or handball (there is no card issued if a penalty kick is awarded for a foul that stops a promising attack and was an attempt to play the ball)
•  
• blocking a rubber applies, so therefore no yellow 

 

• denies the other team an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick for a foul that was an attempt to play the balL
• the title of the article is yellow card offences 

so my overarching question is it is a yellow or not- that’s all Dave had been asking 

 

[Jeremy Wade]

Is theer any reason why Full Time no longer tells you who officiated games?

JW

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

1 hour ago, Chunkycheese said:

I certainly think there’s a problem at Sticker. Not recruiting any players and destined for the St Pirans league looking at first two games. 

Very easy to take the moral high ground and clap and congratulate one another, but surely they’ve moved past this and want to be competitive on the pitch 

Not discrediting any of the work that goes on in the background. 
 

There are some problems when you get messages like this 

With the incident the other night a player had made a run into the box. A sticker player has blocked his run 

 

• stops a promising attack by the other team, usually by committing a foul or handball (there is no card issued if a penalty kick is awarded for a foul that stops a promising attack and was an attempt to play the ball)
•  
• blocking a rubber applies, so therefore no yellow 

 

• denies the other team an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick for a foul that was an attempt to play the balL
• the title of the article is yellow card offences 

so my overarching question is it is a yellow or not- that’s all Dave had been asking 

 

Denial of an Obvious Goal Scoring Opportunity is and has always been a red card offence. 

It used to be that it was a red card offence no matter where or how. 

There was a change to the rules, and the media dubbed it the so called double jeopardy rule (double jeopardy being player sent off for denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity but obvious goal scoring opportunity restored by awarding of penalty), where by if a penalty was awarded for an offence that denied an obvious goal scoring opportunity and the offence was an attempt for the ball then a yellow card is given instead. 

This has been updated this season to include a challenge as it was previously interpreted that anything upper body was not an attempt but there are legitimate circumstances where an upper body challenge is fair and legal. 

So the reason it is listed as a yellow card in the yellow card section in the "rules" is that when all the criteria have to be met i.e. a foul which was an  attempt or challenge for the ball AND it denies an obvious goal scoring opportunity  AND a penalty is awarded is downgraded to a yellow.

All other Denying of obvious goal scoring opportunities are still red (e.g. handball, pushing, pulling, no possibility to play the ball, outside the area)

This principle was then applied to Stopping a Promising Attack where yellow is downgraded to no card.

Without seeing the challenge no one can really offer an opinion, we can only tell you what the rules say and you can make your own mind up. I struggle to see how blocking a players run is a challenge for the ball, this sounds more like impeding progress of opponent with contact but that's just how I read it and a video would better show what actually happened and therefore an actual opinion could be given.

The possibilities to explain the caution are:

It was Denial of obvious goal scoring opportunity and the referee felt it was a challenge for the ball. 

It was stopping a promising attack and the referee felt it was not a challenge for the ball

The referee felt the challenge was reckless. 

The player had persistently offended

The referee was wrong to caution

 

22 minutes ago, Jeremy Wade said:

Is theer any reason why Full Time no longer tells you who officiated games?

JW

All officials at Step 6 and above are now appointed in MOAS (match official administration system) the FA's appointment system which clubs now have access to. 

previously only the referee was appointed in MOAS and clubs didn't have access. Also full time issued the notification and the feature is now taken over by MOAS

Step 7 and below will continue to show in full time as before

[Chunkycheese]

Thank you for explaining so well. 
 

I feel a yellow card was more than likely justified as he blocked or tripped someone in a promising position with no attempt to win the ball

The argument that the score was 3-0 is irrelevant