The Big Bad Fox Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Some teams should be ashamed with their records. Its embarrassing The Worst - Torpoint Athletic - 7 Reds & 43 Yellows The Best - Penryn Athletic - 5 Yellows Credit to Penryn, that's a great record. A club leading by example at the top end of the table, in the title race and a fantastic discipline record. Other clubs should take note. The difference of cards shown between the 2 clubs is crazy. The next closest to penryn is Alphington with 14 yellows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft96 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I know the facts don't lie but I wouldn't say that Torpoint are a very aggressive or dirty team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Waters Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 There are a number of factors connected to the discipline tables, by no stretch of the imagination does the table indicate as to the kind of offence that drew the red card. There is no evidence to suggest that the clubs with a high record are a 'dirty team'. It is just a list of cards - a keeper can be sent off for handling outside his area, where as another player can be sent off for assaulting a referee - two extremes. Yet both get a red card and that is recorded, so it gives no indication at all as to the severity of the offence. Further you have to look at the difference between the Premier and the division one teams, Premier have three qualified match officials, where as division one operates with club assistants. Human nature tells you that with a full team the referee has more support than operating with club officials. The tables are interesting but indicate nothing at all to do with if a team is 'dirty' or not. Study the cards issued to Pro players in the Premier football league and in general more are issued there, but I do not hear of 'dirty' teams there. Tables are not worth the paper they are printed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft96 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Very well put home waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Fox Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 No matter how you put it. There's no hiding from the facts. No wonder the number of referees is getting smaller, the language used by some players/teams is disgraceful. Be interesting to know how many cards have been shown for descent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jft96 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I know everyone makes mistakes, players and officials!! But some of the decisions refs and linos are making are shocking. As a player I can say it can be hugely frustrating!! Same for both teams yes, but passions run high when you are committed to your club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henning Berg Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I do fear for grassroots football sometimes. Its a bit of a catch 22 and I agree with jft96 where some refs do make bewildering decisions on occasions which does lead to quite aggressive and foul language from the players. Not condoning it whatsoever though and something needs to be done about respect for refs else we won't have games anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger1000 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Red card for swearing at the referee, they'll soon learn.yes it might take a while to get used to but it will sort itself out.ive talked about this on here before and nobody replies. its easy to abuse a referee if hes older or fragile, we all know the ones but would the cowardly players abuse a ref who genuinely looked like he could handle himself? Answer, no every time. get some team to get a large rugby player to ref and see if theres any trouble! I can see it now'ref ur an absolute top bloke, fancy a pint later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ennis81 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I know everyone makes mistakes, players and officials!! But some of the decisions refs and linos are making are shocking. As a player I can say it can be hugely frustrating!! Same for both teams yes, but passions run high when you are committed to your club. Just got to learn to play the game to the whistle and hope over the course of the season these frustrating decisions even themselves up with respect to your opposition. Bottom line is without the guys and girls in black there is no Saturday afternoon, and I do not want to go shopping with her indoors thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Waters Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Most of you are missing the point - there is no criticism of referees or the issue of cards - its the league tables that do not take into consideration the severity or otherwise of the offence . Giving misleading assumptions that the clubs with most points must be the worst offenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFan Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 This thread is a little unfair because it looks like an attack on Torpoint, although I know it's basically about discipline as a whole. Torpoint are not a dirty side and teams look forward to playing against them, especially at the Mill. Very welcoming club. Home Waters is correct, theoreticaly several of those reds could be for non-voilent issues. However, I still understand topping the ill discipline chart isn't great whatever the misdemeanours. It needs to come from the club, the board, managers etc that sides should go out to play and not get involved with the stupidty I have seen over the years. You will always have players that wear their heart on their sleeve and give everything, these players are more aggressive in their tackles etc. It is more the 'squaring up' to each other, language and dissent that's the embarrassment. Also though you have to understand, emotions run high in football, it's competitive, agressive, people want to win, there's adrenaline running high. It is very hard to control yourself in that split second after a bad tackle. When our players in our top divisions still do it week in week out, e.g surround the ref, swearing etc, despite campaigns like Respect, then those grass roots players will think it's ok. It's not tackled harshly enough, there have been more cases of retrospective action but it's isnt making much difference to how professional players act. A combination of harsher punishments, professionals acting as better role models, clubs enforcing their own discipline, I wonder how many local managers bollock there own players after a needless card in the changing room, or just shrug it off with disappointment. But also there has to be some understanding that it is a physical sport, over the top tackling and physicality will occur. It just needs to be at a bare minimum. Swearing and dissent should be met with zero-tolerance and common sense, there is far too much inconsistency from refs but also far too many players not focussing on the game and instead getting involved in needless ill-behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Windmill On The Shirt Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 We may have a bad record, however these people have not been at our games, when the referee has lost the plot, I won't name the referees in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruegel the Elder Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 We may have a bad record, however these people have not been at our games, when the referee has lost the plot, I won't name the referees in question. Since you won't name the Referee, can you at least tell us if he is a specialist who only officiates Torpoint games or a psychopath with a specific Torpointophobia? And as an expert could you tell me how many of the 50 cards came from this single Ref? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Windmill On The Shirt Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I will have to research that, out playing snooker tonight, we won 3-2, I won my match 46-23! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFan Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I do not think the thread needs to turn into this. I don't think it was originally just about Torpoint, it's they just happen to be top of this list. Windmill on the shirt may feel the thread was a dig and is sticking up for his club in a way every single member of others would and I'm sure he's not putting the soul blame on referees for all the cards, maybe just a few choice ones in which I'm sure the ref probably did get it wrong or it was very harsh. But it's a hard old job and he wasn't talking about just one ref either. Discussing how all clubs might make discipline better rather than just the ref & FA, and turning this into something it need not be is perhaps the more useful tact to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Well of course back in the day when tackling was allowed, discipline records were relatively low, today however, and you sneeze....you could be in the book That's not the refs fault, rather the system dictating its a booking. Plus, and a big plus, players today are a bunch of moaning, fall down at the merest touch, dissenting bunch, who don't know when to keep their gobs shut.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Perhaps this might be worth a read : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/derby-county/11409874/Steve-McClaren-swears-by-Derbys-foul-language-ban.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home Waters Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I am surprised at you Dave - the posting and subject is nothing to do with the behaviour of players, match officials or whether or not the card should be issued - its merely how do we get a fairer discipline table when each red counts for 3 points, even though something minor (under the laws) is a red card, as much as assaulting a match official, both carry 3 points in the table. Therefor totally painting a false picture of some clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Apologies for digressing, but didn't think it warranted a new thread :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFan Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Great article, reinforces what I said, CLUBS and not just refs and the FA should be responsible. All club values and ethos should have respect at the fore of what they as a club represent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davey Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Some teams should be ashamed with their records. Its embarrassing The Worst - Torpoint Athletic - 7 Reds & 43 Yellows The Best - Penryn Athletic - 5 Yellows Credit to Penryn, that's a great record. A club leading by example at the top end of the table, in the title race and a fantastic discipline record. Other clubs should take note. The difference of cards shown between the 2 clubs is crazy. The next closest to penryn is Alphington with 14 yellows. Well done to Penryn - only 5 yellow cards is a great effort and you should be proud to lead the way. TheolderIgetthebetterIwas - I bet a team you played in would have had at least that number of cards, even if it was all those years ago when you had to commit a serious crime to get booked or sent off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Cornwall Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 From what I have seen lately, there are also another number of factors, in my opinion count to why some teams are well disciplined and others not. Not saying that the teams at top or bottom are there for a reason. . So many players now feel two footed challenges are acceptable, unless both opponents go in at the same time, one is sure to come out worse. . Ok language is on-going, especially when decisions are against them, but referees do stand firm and just let some language pass them, although Managers need to cut it out and act more manageable on their players . Players at times, will sometimes go in for a tackle to early and lean a foot out and trip a player. By rights the referee gives a foul, but this seems to happen, 2, 3 or even 4 times before the player is cautioned. . It depends on the referee of which game. Some referees will be assigned to a team 3 or 4 times in a season, therefore get to understand the way they play, the discipline and therefore will encourage players to not act unprofessionally or un-rational. The opponents however, will be unaware the referee has been on the home ground before but at least once in the season may be refereed. That is why at times, some referees do not do games, and therefore other referees are contacted on the day of the game to cover the game. Again this is my opinion from games I have seen and have been an assistant official to. In a way, as a club official, referees have the right not to allow assistants to give fouls if they see one, therefore reducing the amount of confrontation and card issuing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Farley Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I've noted Penryn's record throughout this season and it's a terrific performance. Credit to one of the toughest players of his time,Steve Jewell and his management team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telithowitis Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Well done Penryn They have a lot of players who have come through their youth teams and their record reflects the hard work put in by their committees and coaches at both Youth and adult levels. Credit to the FA chartered standard they earned several years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 I would collect 5 yellows in the first five games today, actually.....I used to back then !!!! :SM_carton: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockey jackson Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Keith b your team has a lad who has been sent off 2 games on the trot do you want to shed some light on the incidents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mockey jackson Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 I'm sorry to hear that Keith I wish you and your family all the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheolderIgetthebetterIwas Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 All the best to your wife mate, its a bugger.....keep your chin up as best can. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfback Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Wish you and your wife all the best Keith B,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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