Torquay United going into Administration

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

A succession of bad owners and now this! Having spent 20 years in Torbay and surrounds i still have a soft spot for the Gulls. I hope Devon's friendliest pro club can survive.

'Solidarity' ticket for Saturdays home game with Aveley  bought, as I know there's no chance of the Truro City game being on!

[Buckland Jim]

Hearing Pete Masters has shown an interest in acquiring the club from Clarke Osborne. 

[St Darren]

8 minutes ago, Buckland Jim said:

Hearing Pete Masters has shown an interest in acquiring the club from Clarke Osborne. 

With a view to getting to the Premier Lesgue in 10 years???

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

4 hours ago, St Darren said:

With a view to getting to the Premier Lesgue in 10 years???

Could have meant Southern League Premier 😉 Home games to be played at Pittodrie - after ground share agreed with Aberdeen!!

[Ian Pethick]

Understand that if the club remain in administration at the end of the season, it's an automatic relegation. It could be even worse than that though, heard that if they get relegated via their league placing (an alarming prospect for them now after the 10 point deduction leaves them a mere 4 points clear of the drop zone) they would then face a "double relegation" back to step 4 (Southern Div 1 South). Is this true?

Given the level of support the club does still enjoy, would hope that a Salisbury/Hereford phoenix club can emerge from this mess.

[yeww]

Only 2 season ago they were a kick away from League 2. Now look   Sad times. 

[Home Waters]

Unfortunately the saying, ' cut your garment according to your cloth ', is very relevant to football clubs at whatever level, sad times for many clubs to come I would think.

[Ian Pethick]

1 hour ago, Home Waters said:

Unfortunately the saying, ' cut your garment according to your cloth ', is very relevant to football clubs at whatever level, sad times for many clubs to come I would think.

Lot of truth in that. After having read on other forums the past history of the Torquay Utd chair and owner, Clarke Osborne, I am amazed that he was allowed anywhere near a football club. Seems that it was a straight choice back in 2016 of either him, or face going out of business. 

Beware of false prophets, not the first club to fall prey of them and won't be the last.

 

[Dave Deacon]

1 hour ago, Ian Pethick said:

Lot of truth in that. After having read on other forums the past history of the Torquay Utd chair and owner, Clarke Osborne, I am amazed that he was allowed anywhere near a football club. Seems that it was a straight choice back in 2016 of either him, or face going out of business. 

Beware of false prophets, not the first club to fall prey of them and won't be the last.

 

Did I see that before the outgoing chairman, it was a Fans run club? Not quite sure what entailed or how that works, but is this something that can be considered again? Supporters were protesting - can they take over again?  

[tfenlon]

17 hours ago, Ian Pethick said:

Understand that if the club remain in administration at the end of the season, it's an automatic relegation. It could be even worse than that though, heard that if they get relegated via their league placing (an alarming prospect for them now after the 10 point deduction leaves them a mere 4 points clear of the drop zone) they would then face a "double relegation" back to step 4 (Southern Div 1 South). Is this true?

Given the level of support the club does still enjoy, would hope that a Salisbury/Hereford phoenix club can emerge from this mess.

If they remain in administration at the time of the National League AGM they will be relegated.
If they are relegated by league position they will be relegated.
If both are true, they will be facing Devon derbies with Tavistock, Bideford, and Willand next season.

 

Don't know how it would work in logistic terms of maintaining the correct number of teams in the respective divisions next season, or for that matter whether the AGM relegation would take place at the end of this season, giving 21st a reprieve; or at the beginning of next season, requiring another side to be promoted from step 3 to maintain a 24 team league? Likewise, if they are double relegated, would 19th in Southern Prem South be spared or would we require another promotion from step 4?

 

Of course this is all moot if they're out of administration relatively quickly and finish 20th in the league.

[Ian Pethick]

On 23/02/2024 at 15:53, Dave Deacon said:

Did I see that before the outgoing chairman, it was a Fans run club? Not quite sure what entailed or how that works, but is this something that can be considered again? Supporters were protesting - can they take over again?  

This documentary follows a group of supporters attempting to revive Bury FC. Slightly different circumstances, but a worthwhile watch.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08sw2w0

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

On 23/02/2024 at 14:11, Ian Pethick said:

Lot of truth in that. After having read on other forums the past history of the Torquay Utd chair and owner, Clarke Osborne, I am amazed that he was allowed anywhere near a football club. Seems that it was a straight choice back in 2016 of either him, or face going out of business. 

Beware of false prophets, not the first club to fall prey of them and won't be the last.

 

That was pretty much the case. Osborne's track record is abysmal. It is usually speedway tracks that he shuts down. He wanted the freehold of Plainmoor, but successive councils (Tory and LD) refused this. There are covenants associated with Plainmoor as to its use I believe too. All CO got himself was £5m of debt.

It is disappointing that TUST are not interested in the hard yards and a fan owned solution. The choice may be between another spivvy businessman /  property developer or a phoenix club emerging. Is the latter such a bad idea with a ready made council owned ground tom play in?

[Buckland Jim]

1 hour ago, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

That was pretty much the case. Osborne's track record is abysmal. It is usually speedway tracks that he shuts down. He wanted the freehold of Plainmoor, but successive councils (Tory and LD) refused this. There are covenants associated with Plainmoor as to its use I believe too. All CO got himself was £5m of debt.

It is disappointing that TUST are not interested in the hard yards and a fan owned solution. The choice may be between another spivvy businessman /  property developer or a phoenix club emerging. Is the latter such a bad idea with a ready made council owned ground tom play in?

Apparently, according to George Edwards & Mel Hayman there are three interested parties currently serving due diligence. Obviously they may run off into the sunset after digesting what is on offer, but for the time being, things are happening. Whether this can happen before the club are put into administration (hasn't officially happened yet) remains to be seen. 

[Dave Deacon]

16 minutes ago, Buckland Jim said:

three interested parties currently serving due diligence.

How often do we hear this and nothing happens? 😩

[Buckland Jim]

1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said:

How often do we hear this and nothing happens? 😩

Very true, of course what was said by Edwards & Hayman could all be bluster to appease the fan base 

[Ian Pethick]

18 hours ago, Buckland Jim said:

Very true, of course what was said by Edwards & Hayman could all be bluster to appease the fan base 

As Dave said, heard all this before and it came to nothing. Last time it appeared to come down to a choice between Osborne or nothing.

Seems to me that the fans taking it over and running it along the lines of Hereford or Salisbury is the only sustainable long term option. It does appear that the Torquay United Supporters Trust had started preparing for this eventuality back in May 2023, and have already come up with the beginnings of a strategic plan for taking over the club.

 

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

On 26/02/2024 at 10:47, Ian Pethick said:

As Dave said, heard all this before and it came to nothing. Last time it appeared to come down to a choice between Osborne or nothing.

Seems to me that the fans taking it over and running it along the lines of Hereford or Salisbury is the only sustainable long term option. It does appear that the Torquay United Supporters Trust had started preparing for this eventuality back in May 2023, and have already come up with the beginnings of a strategic plan for taking over the club.

 

I don't think TUST want to go down the fan owned model. FFS surely there is much to be learned from local experience at Exeter City. Fan owned model not a panacea for every problem, but recent owners have only been interested in 'development opportunities' and not football operations!

[Devonian]

Fan owned in theory a lovely notion but in practise very hard to pull off. If other clubs on your division have substantial backers then very hard to compete and if you drop another level supporter income drops further. 
Exeter have funded it with an outstanding youth development programme but it’s very hard to uncover a gem every year (as they might be finding out now) and they appear very vulnerable to being outcompeted by the now much richer and soon to have better youth facilities Plymouth.

[Buckland Jim]

Now confirmed, - 10 points. Puts Gulls just 3 points above the drop zone 

[Ian Pethick]

37 minutes ago, Buckland Jim said:

Now confirmed, - 10 points. Puts Gulls just 3 points above the drop zone 

I wonder how much stick Austen Booth got from the Taunton fans last night during their 3 nil win over the Gulls. He got dragged off after about 60 mins (assuming he wasn't injured).

[Craze]

Any chance of us getting Fin Craske back?

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

On 27/02/2024 at 15:44, Devonian said:

Fan owned in theory a lovely notion but in practise very hard to pull off. If other clubs on your division have substantial backers then very hard to compete and if you drop another level supporter income drops further. 
Exeter have funded it with an outstanding youth development programme but it’s very hard to uncover a gem every year (as they might be finding out now) and they appear very vulnerable to being outcompeted by the now much richer and soon to have better youth facilities Plymouth.

In their fan owned time City have had some fine luck with cup draws - with TV coverage / money too.

[Buckland Jim]

Now deducted a further point for playing a suspended player in a drawn match recently 

[Craze]

On 12/04/2024 at 18:25, Buckland Jim said:

Now deducted a further point for playing a suspended player in a drawn match recently 

 

Lucky its only the one point, one for the point they picked up, but then surely there should be an additional punishment?

[Buckland Jim]

1 hour ago, Craze said:

 

Lucky its only the one point, one for the point they picked up, but then surely there should be an additional punishment?

Not sure re the additional punishment, but maybe different rules in National League? Could prove pivotal to the final table, currently sitting one place above the drop zone on 47 points (BBC still showing them with 48). Lose to Taunton on Tuesday night and it will all come down to the final Saturday at home vs. Havant. 

[Craze]

31 minutes ago, Buckland Jim said:

Not sure re the additional punishment, but maybe different rules in National League? Could prove pivotal to the final table, currently sitting one place above the drop zone on 47 points (BBC still showing them with 48). Lose to Taunton on Tuesday night and it will all come down to the final Saturday at home vs. Havant. 

 

Well by playing that player, they've drawn a game, and therefore wrongly denied another team 2 points.