Upgrade facilities vs Team Spend

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

The reprieve of St Dennis in the SWPL West prompts this post. 

Clearly the ideal is to progress on both fronts in a measured and sustainable way. Obviously this is more achievable at bigger clubs with a large city / town population (eg Parkway) / long standing fan base (eg Falmouth).

Even then Falmouth have had plenty of bad times and only recently has off-field excellence matched the team performances at Parkway, despite their finances and in-built advantages.

From my perspectice, there's a third dimension, the level of welcome you get.

For me too, facilities last for a generation or much more. They add value to your club and on-field success is often / usually fleeting. That said, having been a Buckland fan, I do get tired of the lovely facilities and warm welcome line from visitors as we now make a modest impact  in the WL! 

What really unerves me are the lash-the-cash clubs, those in pursuit of instant gratification via a benefactor. No sustainability.... is there a Rushden & Diamonds in the making locally?

For a model in Cornwall I think Sticker have done a great job. Lovely club and ground and achieved with bigger clubs all around them. Very welcoming too!

Parkway obviously achieving both ground upgrade and on-field success, but they are atypical.

Buckland, as said before, great facilities and hopeful again with the new head coach appointment. Again, a welcoming club! Ditto St Blazey this side of the Tamar.

Saltash, decent side, but clubhouse dated and zero atmosphere  pre-game. The facilities dated too. Back breaking uncomfortable bench seats - no thanks! Worst of all seems one of the most cliquey clubs from my experience. As I say, this is my experience only, yours may be different, so no offence intended.

So which clubs are getting the balance  right? Do you think trophies / success matter more than facilities? Maybe you prefer a venue where you feel comfortable and valued? I vere a bit nore towards the latter, but that does have limits. Good teams pull in new support / floating visitors.

What do you think?

 

 

 

[Easterfield]

4 hours ago, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

What really unerves me are the lash-the-cash clubs, those in pursuit of instant gratification via a benefactor. No sustainability.... is there a Rushden & Diamonds in the making locally?

I don’t see too many stirrings of that type in Devon. We’ve talked about watching developments at Okehampton Argyle (remembering the assumed benefactor has been involved with the club most of his life) and, a year ago, Mount Gould looked like they wanted to sweep all before them on the pitch if only at a certain level.   

Not sure about Sidmouth Town. My understanding is the manager was behind Cronies in the Devon and Exeter League and closed that club down, pretty much at its zenith, to move to Ottery St Mary. Famously, he then took twenty players with him to Sidmouth. Uncertain as to whether that's part of a "plan", with him being rather more than just manager, or a shrewd move by the Sidmouth committee to ensure step 6 football.    

Buckland Athletic appear to be sensibly run and just as set up for the level above as Exmouth and Tavistock. I guess people at Homers Heath have been watching the progress of both clubs as Buckland face the conundrum of being caught by a host of clubs they left behind nearly a dozen years ago. 

Tavistock have been remarkable in recent years. I wish them well. But I know more of Exmouth and, with it being a large town further up the peninsula, they’re much more of a litmus test for me.       .

Then there’s Barnstaple Town who currently do fit the mould of a “rich man’s club”. A fair amount of grand talk with reference to potentially large sums of money; we should know more about that one by Christmas.

Once-upon-a-time, Tiverton Town was a club that shot from nowhere helped by financial backing and large crowds. They’ve now been in the Southern League for twenty-odd seasons and you assume that, in its rather uneventful and unflashy way, it’s all reasonably stable there but hopefully not complacent.    

Generally speaking in both Cornwall and Devon, I think we’ve been spared much of the Big Talk and dubious promises heard in other parts of the country. There’s always been the “sponsor” who spends money on players for a few seasons. But a lot of that was part of the old merry-go-round when there was no great need to spend money on facilities or seriously consider promotion. The most obvious One Man Act, played out in the full glare of publicity, was Kevin Heaney’s Truro City. What’s happened at Helston, Mousehole and Plymouth Parkway has been quite different again and different in each case.

We also seem to have been spared those “fake clubs” (for wont of a better description) which have been set up from scratch by just one or two people. At least our clubs are established entities with some meaning in what they are called and, with one current exception, where they play. The only club, at step 6 and above, that doesn’t quite fit this category is Plymouth Marjon (which might still do if it was an entirely student team).            

 

[Easterfield]

4 hours ago, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

What really unerves me are the lash-the-cash clubs, those in pursuit of instant gratification via a benefactor. No sustainability.... is there a Rushden & Diamonds in the making locally?

If there was one possibility in the entire peninsula I'd suggest Bridgwater United although I suspect the emphasis may prove to be on women's football.   

[Martin Eddy]

The biggest problem is you need to build from the bottom, but to do that you need to have the facilities to go with it. You also need an army of volunteers who are loyal to make it succeed 

[St Darren]

Today or tomorrow!!! 

[mattelot]

1 hour ago, St Darren said:

Today or tomorrow!!! 

Dreckley ! 😁

[We Two]

2 hours ago, St Darren said:

Today or tomorrow!!! 

Everything comes to those who wait we are told, trouble is that nobody is prepared to wait any more, developing a clubs innovative culture becomes a secondary issue when not winning a trophy of some kind is perceived as a disaster.
Both Sides Of The Tamar cites Sticker as a model to aspire to in Cornwall and we have to agree with his assessment if what we have been told is true and not only are a clinically clean set of toilets available to supporters, included within the clubhouse is a toilet for the disabled, baby changing facilities also catered for within the clubhouse.
We have always made it known that we enjoy our visits to both Sticker and St Dennis both of whom are in the middle of several senior town sides, but where each venue is always ready to greet you with a warm welcome to their village clubs.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

1 hour ago, We Two said:

Everything comes to those who wait we are told, trouble is that nobody is prepared to wait any more, developing a clubs innovative culture becomes a secondary issue when not winning a trophy of some kind is perceived as a disaster.
Both Sides Of The Tamar cites Sticker as a model to aspire to in Cornwall and we have to agree with his assessment if what we have been told is true and not only are a clinically clean set of toilets available to supporters, included within the clubhouse is a toilet for the disabled, baby changing facilities also catered for within the clubhouse.
We have always made it known that we enjoy our visits to both Sticker and St Dennis both of whom are in the middle of several senior town sides, but where each venue is always ready to greet you with a warm welcome to their village clubs.

Easier to achieve when starting from scratch, not so simple when you have a 40 odd year old clubhouse.

Of course those 40+ year old clubs when opened were lauded as are the new ones of today, plus todays substantial Grant's which were not available back when.

[We Two]

Point taken Older,but a failure to keep the facilities updated over 40 years after the effort put in to acheive it in the first place, is an unfortunate oversight.
A close friend of ours says that his club had grants from the C.C.F.A. back in the late eighties, and again in the nineties, so they have been around for some time if that's the case.
We don't imagine the two clubs we mentioned above did their improvements without the help of grants, back to the old chestnut in many cases of commitment in number from the backroom boys who won't invest in players before facilities.

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

The Grant's were at different levels back then you two,  our upgrade to senior football some 20 years ago cost us over £70K and we got the maximum grant at that time of 10K

Today at our level the grant available is 100K with a 20% input over 5 years, pretty good or what.

We need upgrading and are looking at it now.

[We Two]

1 hour ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

The Grant's were at different levels back then you two,  our upgrade to senior football some 20 years ago cost us over £70K and we got the maximum grant at that time of 10K

Today at our level the grant available is 100K with a 20% input over 5 years, pretty good or what.

We need upgrading and are looking at it now.

Best of luck Older, it's to be hoped that others follow your example rather than investing in areas where the return possible is the loan of a silver coloured cup for twelve months.

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

3 hours ago, Keith B said:

A good and interesting post both sides. Many good and valid points made in the replies too. The final answer lies in them all I think.

I think it is especially challenging for clubs like St Austell, Bodmin, St Blazey and the like. They are the clubs that need to be at Step 5, but need to ensure their team budgets are competitive, whilst also meeting the ground grading requirements for that level. Sticker, for example, maybe not under so much pressure to get promoted, nor maybe wanting that expense.

[We Two]

35 minutes ago, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

I think it is especially challenging for clubs like St Austell, Bodmin, St Blazey and the like. They are the clubs that need to be at Step 5, but need to ensure their team budgets are competitive, whilst also meeting the ground grading requirements for that level.

 

Whilst understanding what you are saying, it doesn't alter the fact that the way to move forward is to first of all put your house in order and then when all facilities are in place, improve your playing staff.
This of course may take a couple of seasons to acheive, but grounds will inevitably need upgrading anyway if promotion to a higher level is won.
It's not rocket science to understand that if a team is promoted to a higher level they will likely need better players who will demand higher playing fees which combined with ground improvements is a double whammy that few clubs can afford.
The biggest problem with some outfits is that they put winning a trophy at the top of their list, and in one case the ground that we visited, the grass hasn't been cut and the white lines are almost obliterated.
Once facilities are in place, maintenance is the only issue to deal with and playing staff expenses can be much better financed from within the club.
Come on fellas, Older has stated that £100,000 is available to level 6 participants ! and good luck to Penryn who it appears is applying for a grant.
A ground must be in a pretty poor state if £100,000 won't put it right for any level 6 club.

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

2 hours ago, We Two said:

Whilst understanding what you are saying, it doesn't alter the fact that the way to move forward is to first of all put your house in order and then when all facilities are in place, improve your playing staff.
This of course may take a couple of seasons to acheive, but grounds will inevitably need upgrading anyway if promotion to a higher level is won.
It's not rocket science to understand that if a team is promoted to a higher level they will likely need better players who will demand higher playing fees which combined with ground improvements is a double whammy that few clubs can afford.
The biggest problem with some outfits is that they put winning a trophy at the top of their list, and in one case the ground that we visited, the grass hasn't been cut and the white lines are almost obliterated.
Once facilities are in place, maintenance is the only issue to deal with and playing staff expenses can be much better financed from within the club.
Come on fellas, Older has stated that £100,000 is available to level 6 participants ! and good luck to Penryn who it appears is applying for a grant.
A ground must be in a pretty poor state if £100,000 won't put it right for any level 6 club.

Good response. An army of volunteers to make things happen more than helpful too 

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

On 01/06/2022 at 11:22, We Two said:

Whilst understanding what you are saying, it doesn't alter the fact that the way to move forward is to first of all put your house in order and then when all facilities are in place, improve your playing staff.
This of course may take a couple of seasons to acheive, but grounds will inevitably need upgrading anyway if promotion to a higher level is won.
It's not rocket science to understand that if a team is promoted to a higher level they will likely need better players who will demand higher playing fees which combined with ground improvements is a double whammy that few clubs can afford.
The biggest problem with some outfits is that they put winning a trophy at the top of their list, and in one case the ground that we visited, the grass hasn't been cut and the white lines are almost obliterated.
Once facilities are in place, maintenance is the only issue to deal with and playing staff expenses can be much better financed from within the club.
Come on fellas, Older has stated that £100,000 is available to level 6 participants ! and good luck to Penryn who it appears is applying for a grant.
A ground must be in a pretty poor state if £100,000 won't put it right for any level 6 club.

Not necessarily in a bad state, it maybe like ours and us...dated!