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Richard Chown

Why do clubs feel the need to play Senior players in Junior League?

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On Saturday afternoon we played Hayle FC IV in a FHFL Division 2 league match. We lost 2-1. Both Hayle's goals came from Matt Thomas, who is actually Hayle's SWPL (W) striker. After the match we found out that he had been reinstated purely for our game after Hayle's SWPL game was called off due to a water logged pitch. Nothing against the player in question as he just wants to play which is understandable.

But I'm feeling bitter! :angry2: . What I don't understand is why play a SWPL player in our game? Hayle Res were playing a combo match and Hayle III, who are fighting a relegation battle were playing away in FHFL 1. So why the hell did they feel the need to play a established SWPL player and spoil our weekend . The match didn't really mean anything as i doubt we will get promoted this season but as a club we want to finish with pride in the highest position possible.

Am I right to be bitter?

Why do clubs play such players in junior matches?

What if Matt Thomas had a leg broken during the match, would it of been such a wise decision by Hayle FC?

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MAYBE IF HE HAD BROKE HIS LEG THE SWPL TEAM WUD THINK TWICE BOUT IT

IT IS ANNOYING VERY ANNOYING , SPECIALLY AT THIS TIME OF SEASON WHEN PROMOTION / RELEGATION IS WHAT TEAMS ARE AFTER AND BATTLE ALL SEASON FOR THEN ONE MATCH LIKE THIS CAN RUIN ALL YOUR HARD WORK

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It IS annoying when teams do this, it DOES you off when your team suffers at the hands of such antics and I guess ethically it could be construed as wrong. Unfortunately it's within the rules and we have no choice but to accept it, regardless of our own opinions on the subject.

I, like you Rich mate, don't understand why he had to play in your game when there were teams from the same club playing in higher leagues on the same day. Perhaps they don't like you?.

Maybe Weeman could comment on why Hayle chose to act in this way, rather than put him in a team representative of a higher standard?.

Your anger and disappointment is totally understandable mate.

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He plays for the club, its the way it should be in my opinion, I understand why people have gripes over it, but thats all part of trying to make a club a club. At the moment if you have senior and junior sides, basically you're different clubs within a club, and therefore just as well be called different names.

As long as clubs don't take the mick with it, ie: more than 3 players then I say it should be allowed

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:angry2: Its happened to Roche(Duchy 3) on many occasions when other clubs play "senior players",most recently last season Probus fielded Dominic Pullen and "friends" during an evening encounter at Roche,which we lost by the odd goal,end result Probus get promoted,we miss promotion by ONE POINT.

This season Probus have called off several games in their new League because they cant raise a side to play,i wonder why?

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The fault, of course, lies with the illogical CCFA rules, allowing a senior player to become a junior player by paying £6.

Where on earth is the logic in that?

The Standard competition rules that Leagues were obliged to adopt around 5 years ago don't tie in with the CCFA rules about senior players. The Standard set suggest that no player shall play junior football if he has played senior football within n days/months where the league suggests the time.

It's logical, sensible and easy to check.

So the Cornish Leagues weren't allowed to adopt it.

Every other League rule that wasn't exactly in line with the Standard suggestionshad to be changed.

The ancient CCFA rules stayed the same.

Now that clubs Leagues can't put forward proposed rule changes we have to rely on the common sense of the CCFA Rules Committee. ??????????

I wrote proposing that they consider changing the senior players rule to the sensible version but didn't even get the courtesy of a reply from the CCFA.

Incidently, ALL the clubs in the West Cornwall Sunday League have agreed not to play anyone who has played any senior football within the last month. That works.

Agreement no 2 Coopsie?

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:angry2: Its happened to Roche(Duchy 3) on many occasions when other clubs play "senior players",most recently last season Probus fielded Dominic Pullen and "friends" during an evening encounter at Roche,which we lost by the odd goal,end result Probus get promoted,we miss promotion by ONE POINT.

This season Probus have called off several games in their new League because they cant raise a side to play,i wonder why?

they just don't have the side they had last season. and just a quick question, is this the same game a roche player broke a probus player's jaw because he laughed at him?

Also, are all of you trying to say that if you're team avoided relegation or just pipped promotion by playing these senior players that you would moan. I know how you all feel but I can come from both sides here as I have been in a team where the manager used to bring in "ringers" from higher leagues and this was already senior football, and it made the team worse off in the long run as regulars were being dropped for these players.

also I have been one of the players to drop many leagues to play a game, and to be honest, i enjoy it as it is (no offence meant here as i now play mining 3 having been senior at the beginning of the season) alot easier and therefore more fun to have a metaphorical week off.

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The fault, of course, lies with the illogical CCFA rules, allowing a senior player to become a junior player by paying £6.

Where on earth is the logic in that?

The Standard competition rules that Leagues were obliged to adopt around 5 years ago don't tie in with the CCFA rules about senior players.

Agreement no 2 Coopsie?

This is becoming concerning now my "young at heart" knocker of opinions :D .. Surely I can't be getting more serious in my old age?.

iamthebest :lol: .... The sentence is CLEARLY broken up but your warped mind had to delve into something that wasn't there didn't it. Damn you. :thumbsup:

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Guest postman pat

as a new club in the mining league with only one team we come across this alot,but this will not spoil our enjoyment.

if a club feels so insecure that they have to bring in a ringer to play against a mining 3 team then we look on this as a complement as the team must feel they cannot give us a good game with only mining 3 players :P

football being football means that to some clubs winning is everything.when the ringers have to play for their own teams do these clubs then moan and call games off because they cannot raise a side. :unsure:

we all want to win every game we play in but not at the expense of regular players who are good enough to play in all winds and weathers when the club is putting out 2,3,4 or 5 teams.yes you may win 1 game but in the long run do you lose out because commited players drift away and you stuggle to raise teams :SM_carton_y: ;)

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Hayle SWPL wasn't fixtured for a game last Saturday. 1st team players were involved with the Combination and Falmouth Helston Div 2 games. When players belong to a club they have the right to ask to play football for any of the teams that club fields. We aren't fans of the ruling any more than you are, but whilst it is there clubs will use it. If any one wants to change the rule at the CCFA AGM we would be more than happy to second such a motion.

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Probus amongst other clubs have been playing re-instated senior players in midweek games for years. If a player has been on the bench for the senior team and is playing 90 minutes for fitness or the player has now come back from injury or suspension then fair enough, that it was reserve sides are for. It's when you get several senior players bolstering a side that can suddenly make all the difference, and can have an affect on promotion/relegation issues.

It's even worse at junior football as you don't have to re-instate players, I've turned up at certain grounds before to see 20+ players turn up fot the opposition, to find that 7/8 of the starting line up that play in the Duchy Prem are suddenly turning out for a Duchy 5 team! (with most of the regulars on the touchline) I play for a reserve team in Duchy 5 and if our manager decided to play first teamers instead of his regulars (which he wouldn't do) he wouldn't have a team the week after. I don't understand how players are happy to be dropped for players in higher team, only to turn up again the week after.

Like has already been pointed out you've got to look at the rules; whilst clubs are allowed to strengthen reserve sides with higher players they will only continue to do so!

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this sort of thing also seems to happen a lot at this time of the season to get a team promoted or save a team from relegation . maybe a rule should be brought in that senior players cant reinstate after a certain date say the end of february . also there are as we know teams who do this every season and you know if you play them in a midweek game they will load up there side .

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I know this has been said before but it happens to senior clubs aswell just look at truro in the combo they have the likes of tolley playing for them some weeks it's just one of those things that happens in football.

Regarding bringing in ringers I think when a player signs for a club he should only be eligible to play for that club but having said that I also think they should be able to play for any team within that club without reinstating which I think is the ccfa just making extra money out of clubs.

If you have a player that has been suspended or injured why should he have to pay to regain his fitness by dropping into the reserves???

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Hayle SWPL wasn't fixtured for a game last Saturday. 1st team players were involved with the Combination and Falmouth Helston Div 2 games. When players belong to a club they have the right to ask to play football for any of the teams that club fields. We aren't fans of the ruling any more than you are, but whilst it is there clubs will use it. If any one wants to change the rule at the CCFA AGM we would be more than happy to second such a motion.

Sorry Ian, not possible.

When the CCFA became a limited company they removed the right of member clubs to propose and vote on rule changes.

We have to convince the blazer brigade.

Terry Williams told me that the rule had been there for a long, long time and it won't be changed.

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I think you got me a bit muddled Woodmanaldo. I wasn't agreeing with the idea, just giving a reason of which I think it happens as I have the experience. And you seem to have a bit of an issue with Probus too, maybe you should hang up you're boots if you feel that strongly about a club whose reserve side is slightly worse than your first side. however, don't get me wrong, having duchy 2 as a level for which the 35+ year old players can look up to improve to is not a bad thing! :drink:

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Probus appear to be one of the clubs that complain when they come up against clubs who include players from there OWN club that are playing at a higher level, as happened last season at Wadebridge when Wadebridge included two first team squad members and won 5-0, yet there were no complaints from Wadebridge or Probus when they beat Wadebridge twice previously with goals from Richard Young who at the time was playing for Penryn!

If a player is signed for a club he should be eligible to play for all the clubs teams whenever required. It seems people are always ready to knock the local football 'mercenaries' yet when a player helps out his mates and his club by playing for a reserve side etc he and the club get slaughtered for doing so!

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Guest Postie Pidge

CTB - the only prizes on offer in the Whirlwind Sports Falmouth-Helston League is a new kit for the divisional champions. Not sure about the Mining League

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CTB - the only prizes on offer in the Whirlwind Sports Falmouth-Helston League is a new kit for the divisional champions. Not sure about the Mining League

i believe its the same for mining league aswell

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Guest Postie Pidge

I remember on a few occasions when Hayle have had points deducted for that reason but most of what I heard was hearsay. I played against Hayle's Sunday team when they had then first teamer Kevin Toms in the team. They were booted out of the cup and we got stuffed by Old Smithy in the semi final and a broken finger didn't help our cause!

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Guest Sport Lover

If the Hayle player wasnt very good whats the problem? he is a Hayle player so he should be able to play for any team within the Hayle club as long as no rules are broken.

You have to also remember Hayle 2nd's kind off had promotion forced on them by their 1st team taking SWPL Div 1, so you could say Hayle have been playing with mining 1 players all season.

They have every right to try and protect their senior status and play their best team for the situation. as long as its within the rules.

The only thing I find strange is players playing for other clubs!

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Guest stealth

tms no9

a couple of the first team have played for the 2nd team only because they have been on the bench and needed match practice. and could you let me kw who the players that were brought in that dont play for the club plz

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If the Hayle player wasnt very good whats the problem? he is a Hayle player so he should be able to play for any team within the Hayle club as long as no rules are broken.

You have to also remember Hayle 2nd's kind off had promotion forced on them by their 1st team taking SWPL Div 1, so you could say Hayle have been playing with mining 1 players all season.

They have every right to try and protect their senior status and play their best team for the situation. as long as its within the rules.

The only thing I find strange is players playing for other clubs!

I would agree with you there Sport Lover - it would be useful if there was a rule that players could only sign for and play for one club at a time in any season - we have had several occasions of players signed at different levels for different clubs - it gets complicated, causes problems and can lead to bad feeling so we ended up making a club rule that once signed you could only play for our club in the season - its not easy to enforce though - especially if you go through a patch where players are injured and teams are short!

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It is a tricky one.

But what happens if a player signs for a club team and then gets injured, dropped or simply isnt good enough?

Is it not then unfair on the player to stop them stepping DOWN to a lower team within the club to carry on playing?

Or if they are good enough to prevent them from stepping UP and progressing?

Undoubtedly clubs would lose players either way if a footballer cant play at the level they want.

So called 'ringers' is a touchy subject and unless the rules are changed should really be down to each individual clubs acting with decency.

After all, people have a long memory when they have been stitched up by playing against 'ringers' !!!!!

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The whole idea of having a number of teams is to push the club forward. St Blazey 1st team players have played for the 2nd team on many occasions when they are coming back from suspension, injury, etc. Sometimes, it has to be done.

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tms no9

a couple of the first team have played for the 2nd team only because they have been on the bench and needed match practice. and could you let me kw who the players that were brought in that dont play for the club plz

stealth

last season for instance gavin bennets from st agnes?????that good enough????

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Gavin is actually back playing at Chacewater this season (sadly for us!) - my comments are aimed at exactly that though -(not Gavin personally) - if at any one point in a season you were only allowed to be signed for and play for one club then it would make things simpler - if as Mike C states players are injured/dropped etc or progress to play at a higher level at another club then they move and sign for another club - it would make the whole registrations and transfers so much simpler - then whichever club they have moved to can play them at whatever level they are able to play - signed for one club but each relevant level junior/senior. Then, for example, a St Agnes player could only sign for and play for a St Agnes team at any one point - if he wanted to play higher level at another club(!?) he would have to leave St Agnes and sign for that other club not have junior registration at St Agnes and Senior registration elsewhere - thats only an example of course!

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:angry2: Its happened to Roche(Duchy 3) on many occasions when other clubs play "senior players",most recently last season Probus fielded Dominic Pullen and "friends" during an evening encounter at Roche,which we lost by the odd goal,end result Probus get promoted,we miss promotion by ONE POINT.

This season Probus have called off several games in their new League because they cant raise a side to play,i wonder why?

they just don't have the side they had last season. and just a quick question, is this the same game a roche player broke a probus player's jaw because he laughed at him?

Also, are all of you trying to say that if you're team avoided relegation or just pipped promotion by playing these senior players that you would moan. I know how you all feel but I can come from both sides here as I have been in a team where the manager used to bring in "ringers" from higher leagues and this was already senior football, and it made the team worse off in the long run as regulars were being dropped for these players.

also I have been one of the players to drop many leagues to play a game, and to be honest, i enjoy it as it is (no offence meant here as i now play mining 3 having been senior at the beginning of the season) alot easier and therefore more fun to have a metaphorical week off.

To be honest i cant remember the broken jaw incident,we are a very physical side,but i dont think a player would do it just because of a laugh.But i agree with Grampound,hats off to them they stick with their respective teams as we do at Roche,we wouldnt play ringers from the 1st team.

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nobody minds teams doing this when players are coming back from injuries or suspensions its just when they do it at the end of the season just to save there seconds or thirds from relegation or to help them get promoted . you see it every year second or third teams who have been poor all season and then suddenly they are pulling off results .

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Guest postman pat

to add to the confusion what about re-instating players.

at the start of next season a senior club with junior teams has the nightmare of re-instating countless players before they play a game,therefore stopping some of them from playing as you can only re-instate 2 players at a time.should the slate not be wiped clean at the end of each season <_<

i agree with other people,if you sign for a club you play for that club no matter what team. on the proviso that for instance not all the first team can play for the third team, just because they have an important game.there must be a limit of say 2 or 3 players.this would stop the bitching and the bending of rules :c:

why would say a combo player from 1 club want to play for say a mining 2 or 3 side from another club if it is not to bend the rules :glare:

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Guest Postie Pidge

Apparently Storm included a few "ringers" today against Robartes but it didn't pay off for them. Maybe Gaffer could clear it up?

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Technically, the re-instatement rule in CCFA Hanbook applies ONLY to the Junior Cup. If similar rules appear in the other, Junior Leagues then my advice would be to replace them with the F.A. Standard League Rule wording at the next AGM and appeal to the F.A. in London if the rule change is not sanctioned by the CCFA. Can't see how you could lose!

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