refs

[1966]

watched the game between liskvfalmouth.the referee gave out 5 yellow and 2 red cards in a keenly contested bottom of the table clash the game was not a dirty game at all the ref seemed to be the one who wanted be the centre of attention. I do hope there was an assessor at the game as his standard of refereeing was appauling to say the least the game as i recall probably would have got away with 1 yellow card this was when a lisk player was hauled back on the touchline however the ref missed this despite being 10 yards away.there was not one bad challenge in the whole 90mins but the ref decided to book virtually every tackle.to sum up the referee in question has probably never played the game before and spoilt a very entertaining game (well the second half to be fair)unfortunately this ref will have major decisions to make in the remainder of the season and WILL cost teams top and bottom points.i am a liskeard supporter and in no way am biased in any way as the ref gave very strange decisions all afternoon for both sides.i do hope both teams will be appealing their red cards just to make a point.this referee should drop down to the DJM or maybe to a subbuteo league and learn the rules or give up the game completly : :SM_carton_y:

[Guest Postie Pidge]

Shaun Halford was sent off for two bookings, I don't think you could appeal that

[the ref]

Mmmm always difficult to dispute all and every card shown, was it for the challenge, maybe it was for dissent, could be for persistent misconduct but to name a few of the possible reasons. Its a hell of a job and unfortunately unless you are actually in the middle and know exactly what has been happening with players conduct it is almost impossible to know why the cards were produced. We all have different tolerance levels, maybe this ref set out his stall before the game or in the early stages and then had to stick to it. You say there were not many if any BAD challenges could it be dissent played a big part then- what with he fair play rulings etc.

[1966]

yes i agree some may have been for dissent but it seemed to me that they were all for tackles which was very strange indeed but who knows whether the players in question mouthed off so to speak if that was the case then after the first couple of booking the players you would have thought would have kept there mouths shut but this never seemed to be the case as all players seemed to be surprised when the ref showed the card.you can normally tell by there body language if they are guilty or not,but like you said you do miss a lot by watching from the side of the pitch,but i strongly believe if this was reffed by a decent official he would have been more sensible and talked to players instead of overeacting in most situations he must of had a bad day we will leave it at that allthough i do feel he has many bad days to come.

[B Manning]

Situation normal, it`s always the referee`s fault these players are so innocent butter would not melt in their mouths. They always seem to get picked upon by a referee who has never played the game and is always wanting to be the centre of attention.

[Guest Frodo]

I WASNT AT THIS GAME EITHER AND GOT TO AGREE SOMEONE WAS ABSOLUTELY CRAP IN THAT MATCH,NOT SURE WHO COS I WASNT THERE BUT THOUGHT I WOULD GET MY OPINION ACROSS. :wacko:

[1966]

MR Manning i know refs have a hard job ,however i know three refs who played the game at a good standard and went on to be referees and in my experience they tend to be the better ones and that is a matter of fact.i have never felt the need to put into writing comments about a ref ,but this chap i am afraid was an embarassment not only too himself but also to your profession.Most refs make the odd mistake in games which is acceptable as we are only human but sadly this one in particular lost the plot from the first minute to the last he lost totall control of himself and thougt the only way out of the mess he had created was to start booking players to gain some sort of control!.I do hope i have explained it properly and hope this ref only improves as the only way is up he might well turn out to be very good ref...........one day

[bighairydave]

1966,

So what your saying is all the best referees have played the game at a good standard? Which Select Group referees have played in a good standard?

[1966]

I am mearly stating that normally refs that have played the game generally make better refs not all but in general.

[Mike Odgers]

I was at the game and two decisions went against Liskeard (rightly or wrongly) but what disturbed me was the way the dugout consistantly tried to belittle the young (linesman) in the first half with sarcastic comments throughout.

Credit to the the referees assistant who stayed focussed to his task and handled the comments without distraction.

To be fair there was no foul language from the Liskeard management and their motivation to their team was first class.

[Guest Cornishdave1980]

Graham Poll never played the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1966 I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself and ask the question "Why is there a shortgage of referees through out the country?"

Its extremely easy to watch a game and comment and its even easier for Andy Gray with his 10 replays. All referees regardless of level, have firstly had the courage to take on the role and secondly put themselves in a position where they will be Public Enemy No1 for 90 mins.

What I would say to you is your angle and the referees angle during the Lisk v Fal game are guarenteed to be different thus he probably saw a lot more than you did and also probably heard a lot more than you did.

I have had many similar games when tension maybe high and you try and set the standard with an early booking but the players do not take the warning and you end up stacking the cards(even in a clean game).

Maybe you should ask the players what their attitude to the game was?

[kevin richards]

Graham Poll never played the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1966 I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself and ask the question "Why is there a shortgage of referees through out the country?"

Its extremely easy to watch a game and comment and its even easier for Andy Gray with his 10 replays. All referees regardless of level, have firstly had the courage to take on the role and secondly put themselves in a position where they will be Public Enemy No1 for 90 mins.

What I would say to you is your angle and the referees angle during the Lisk v Fal game are guarenteed to be different thus he probably saw a lot more than you did and also probably heard a lot more than you did.

I have had many similar games when tension maybe high and you try and set the standard with an early booking but the players do not take the warning and you end up stacking the cards(even in a clean game).

Maybe you should ask the players what their attitude to the game was?

I understand what your saying about a shortage off refs, however, i think there are 1 or 2 of them who need to take a good look at themselves ! We had a ref on sat who was a total embarressment to himself & refferees in general. He managed to miss every major incident in the game including a blatent penalty & a player being pushed in the face because, he said, " i couldnt see it ", yet he books a player who asked him to keep up with play. The reason, he was so unfit he didnt leave the centre circle ! This ref has been slated before on this website & i think it is about time someone assessed his fitness & ability to carry out his duties. I would not put a player on the pitch if i didnt think he could do his job for 90mins, why do the CCFA allow there officials to do so ! If i was a refferee, i would be embarressed to have this man as a colleague ! :SM_carton:

[the ref]

I think in fairness to 1966 he may well have a point about refs who have played the game. It stands to reason that if you are an ex player you will probably be able to read the game better and understand some of the frustration on the pitch. However that takes nothing away from those who have never played - no matter what the level.

[1966]

:rolleyes: some refs who have never played do make good officials without doubt but not very many.anyway kev ive had a good look at myself (in the mirror)and did not like what i saw so now i am off to have a shave and then down the chemist for some anti wrinkle cream. :rolleyes:

[B Manning]

Hi Kevin, i will say that if a player asks me to keep up with play there is a very good chance a caution is not far behind the comment, I would look on that comment as dissent. Also as to a previous post of mine on this forum there is no hard and fast rule that makes an ex player a good referee and a referee who has little or no past playing experience a poor referee. I have played senior football,a good friend of mine with less playing experience than myself made the premier league assistants list and even was appointed to UEFA games, quite rightly so as he was a better referee than myself so as you see there is no way of telling until any person takes up refereeing.

[Guest]

Are you kidding. With a remark like that I wouldn't have you looking after a kiddies match. Talk about being up your own backside. 'Just take it on board as a bit of advice or come back with a piece of humour yourself'. What the hell is the game coming to.

What a plonker.

'I will say that if a player asks me to keep up with play there is a very good chance a caution is not far behind the comment, I would look on that comment as dissent.

[Guest Cornishdave1980]

ECPL you are exactly what is wrong with the game these days.

B manning hit the nail on the head, I would have booked him as well. As for your comment about not letting him look after a kiddies match, get a grip of yourself. Without refs, kids get no matches and secondly they need to learn at an early age about RESPECTING the officials regardless if they agree with the decision.

1966 where do you get the stats from to make the comment "some refs who have never played do make good officials without doubt but not very many"? .

I tend to disagree, my reasons being firstly rules are rules and through a players career he will see the rules how he chooses to see them during a game. Can years of this be turned off instantly and the letter of the law followed to the dot?

[Dave Deacon]

..... i will say that if a player asks me to keep up with play there is a very good chance a caution is not far behind the comment, I would look on that comment as dissent.

I'm sorry but I have to agree with ECPL. I know sometimes it might also depend on how something is said, but why on earth show the player a yellow card for this harmless comment?

Return it with an equally tongue in cheek comment and then perhaps the fun will come back into the game and respect with it. We're talking here about people supposedly out there on a Saturday afternoon playing and reffing a game because they enjoy it. It's level 6 non-league football played by part-timers who have full-time jobs elsewhere, not the Premier League where there's load of money hanging on bonuses etc. <_<

[B Manning]

Dave and ECPL you are quite right in saying how the comment is made, I did state that there was a good chance that a caution was not far behind the comments not that it was a certainty, if the player made the comment tongue in cheek I would treat it in that vein and more than likely have a good laugh with the player and give as good as he was giving me with a smile on my face, but! all to often in this scenario the player is being sarcastic so I would feel to treat it as dissent would be the correct response, whether this was a gentle word to the player or a yellow card could depend on several things. Another point ECPL why start getting abusive with me with your comment about the kiddies match and refering to me being up my own backside, I answered a query as an experienced official (attained level 3) and with over 25 years experience which I answered with honesty as exactly as I still referee, with honesty.

[Dave Deacon]

I'm sorry but I have to agree with ECPL.

Needless to say Mr Manning, it was only the very first part I agreed with. Not the rest of ECPL's comments! Definitely worth a yellow card :SM_carton_y:

[Guest]

Its always nice to know that a referee has to have the last word to justify his comments. And yes there are some bloody good officials out there. Ever heard of the late Roy Horsham. He made mistakes like anyone else but you knew where you were with him. He earned his respect by knowing how to control a game. One look from him and you soon shut up. Now with directives coming down from on high I'm sure many of the officials don't enjoy the game anymore because they cannot control a game the way they think it should be.

[Dave James]

hi Kevin ........

I take it you had the pleasure of one Mr .L.Marsh WALKING throughout your game AGAIN on Saturday .

I can remember him as a good fit referee in his younger days .....but what an embarrassment he is in Senior football now ........surely he knows himself it is time to return to junior games only from now on .

He simply CANNOT run nowadays !!!! :SM_carton:

[B Manning]

ECPL I do not have to have the last word to justify my comments as i said I answered a query with honesty and if in your small world you have a problem with that then that is your problem not mine. If I felt your vast experience was superior to mine I may be swayed by your opinion, please do not think that I feel you should not have an opinion far from it. But at the point you start getting abusive as far as I am concerned any objective comments are worthless.

[Guest Cornishdave1980]

Now with directives coming down from on high I'm sure many of the officials don't enjoy the game anymore because they cannot control a game the way they think it should be.

What directives are these that stop us referees from controlling a game?

[oldasitgets]

Once more we get the comments to the effect that a referee is so bad that he shouldn't be in charge of a game.

Because of the idiots who think like that, we have to accept anyone who'll do the job."

Wouldn't it be lovely if refereeing was such a pleasure, such a sought after job, that only the good ones got a game?

Fairyland, with the attitude of clubs and players at the moment.

With the shortage of referees and the numbers leaving the game, any moron who criticises a referee that has turned out to make a game work, should be banned for ever.

[Guest]

B Manning. I just don't understand your comments about my so called abuse to you. It is a shame that you cannot deal with a serious topic unless you attack the comments of others. At no stage have I made an abusive comment about you. The interpretation of being up your own backside is just that. Don't bury your head in the sand just because someone has a different opinion than you. Perhaps this is a problem with yourself and your insular world of officiating and not me if you are unable to see the difference between a mild derisory comment and abuse. A serious debate needs serious responses.

And please Cornishdave1980 do you not get any mail, do you not attend any meetings to discuss what the FA are trying to do. You can’t tell me that the FA is pushing officials to stop this, cut down on that etc. What about the new respect campaign. Is not that a directive or something that suddenly appeared out of the blue? Take the go back 10 yard rule which was brought in because of dissent. No sooner it arrived and it disappeared. Why? It was a terrific rule. Was that not a directive from the FA and there are more.

My argument has always been that a referee must be able to control a game without having to take on board mid season changes in interpretations of the laws of the game. Who of us actually know what the offside law is nowadays it is interpetated differently every time I see a inicident.

Take kicking a ball away or slamming it into the ground because a player disagrees with a decision. I wonder how many cards have been issued over just those two types of incidents compared to the cards issued for dangerous play. Cannot a referee see that at that instant a player is clearly upset for what he feels as an injustice and he feels himself that he might have made a mistake. As I said an audible ‘Cut it out or shut it would do’ not a card especially if it is the first time it has happened..

We have all done it within an instant we made the decision as a player and as an offical. If the offence was clearly an attempt to give his team an advantage then I could see the possibility of issuing a card. As I said referee’s are there to control a game. The problem is some and by no means all officials do not and will not raise a hand and say ‘sorry lads got that one wrong’ and gets on with the game. I am sure that if they do players and club officials will respect them more.

And the one big thing officials should do and much more often and that is stop the foul abuse and intimidation coming out of the dug outs. You give them one warning and if they continue to abuse then remove them. Much of what happens on the field is brought about because of the rants and raves of club management. Remove that cancer and you will remove a lot of what happens on the field of play.

For some reason you cannot see that I’m on the officials side and I want to see them enjoy officiating. Just referee matches as they think they should be. Clubs want consistency. I watch an ECPL game and I am often surprised to see that invariably foul and abusive language is handled pretty well. But when I watch an SWPL game I find that officials are bombarded at all angles with abuse and by and large do not do anything about it.

Now if you want to have a discussion about those opinions then please do so.

Thank goodness I gave up officiating years ago because what I see what officials have to put up with today would drive me nuts and I would always be in trouble with the authorities for controlling a game in a fair manner. Football is a very passionate and physical game but also played with great skill. Don’t forget players do not have the safety valve of having a good old fashioned punch up or wrestling match to solve a problem and just picks up a 10 minute yellow card. Football players just do not have that safety valve. Think about that when you are on control of your next game. The laws of the game are there to ensure a game is played fairly and honestly and yes at times players do lose theuir tempers, apply those simple laws fairly and you should enjoy your next game.

[B Manning]

ECPL, your comments about not allowing me to officiate at kiddies games and that my head was up my own backside I consider to be abusive, Dave Deacon in his followup post distanced himself from those remarks also you fail to read my posts correctly and put your own interpretation on them. I did state that to quote "I did state that there was a good chance that a caution was not far behind the comments not that it was a certainty," unquote. On another point which you brought up I can only concur with cornishdave, I have had no directives from the FA which dictate to me how I referee. It would seem the only opinion allowed is yours anyone who does not fall in line with it is incorrect, as you well know the art of refereeing and applying LOAF is a very grey area not black and white and also any player can make a remark some are funny and lighthearted and from my point of view will be treated as such, but on the other hand a player can make a remark which is sarcastic and nasty so i as the referee reserve the right take a suitable course of action. Hopefully we may meet up at a game and have a frank exchange of views, most of my refereeing is on the CGECPL so there is a chance. One further comment if i may, you say that you hope I will apply the laws "simply and fairly" I would disagree on the term fairly in all my games the word I would use is honestly. I can do no more than that in any game in which I am an official.

[Guest Cornishdave1980]

ECPL i understand your trying to side with the officials in this debate.

You just have a very strange way of expressing your views. Just to clarify some points for you. The FA will always deliver any rule changes before the season starts not during it.

I agree with you about the 10 yard dissent rule, maybe they can reintroduce it should the Respect the Ref campaign shows signs of improvements from players, lets hope.

As B Manning stated the LOAF is black and white but delivery of it is always different because we all have different perceptions of incidents that take place.

Regarding the comment from ECPL about reacting to a referees descsion by shouting or throwing the ball away and that this should only require a word, i cant agree with this as you set a standard at the beginning of the game and you must maintain it throughout. Example:

You dont caution someone in the first 5 mins for kicking the ball away after a descsion against him.

88 minutes another player commits same offence breaking up the pressure from the other team who may be chasing the game. Do you caution or not?

You cant have one rule for one part of the game another for a later part.

[Leigh Cooper]

Just wanted to congratulate last nights referee, Dave Goard on an outstanding performance at Bodmin. In my humble opinion, by some distance the the best refereeing performance I have seen this season. It was so good in fact you didn't even notice he was out on the park!!!!

The secret? again in my humble opinion - He talked to the players, not at them. He explained his decisions when required. He kept up with play. He allowed his assistants to make decisions and he got all the 'big' decisions correct.

More of the same please - WELL DONE !!!!!

[Dave Deacon]

Welcome to the Forum Leigh.

I think you knocked it on the head :

He talked to the players, not at them.

[sven gordan (eric's son!)]

as a player i must admit dave goard who reffed us last night was outstanding had him a few times now top ref in our league, but as always he will move on to higher level like lee swabey another top young ref who is now in line football league, top reffing goardy best aroundother refs at our standard should watch and take note. up the town!

[middle mans mate]

there are a few good refs in the SWPL but also plenty of not so good ones, some referees do not like any critisism whether its said in jest or not. A few weeks back I shook the refs hand at the end of the game said "thankyou ref abysmal as usual", and that terrible bit of abuse has cost me £43 from the nice guys at the CCFA ! :ninja:

[B Manning]

middle mans mate, it was not those nice guys at CCFA that cost you the £43 , it was the ill judged and silly remark made by you to the official. I am not saying you should not have that opinion but it`s an opinion that needs to be kept to yourself until at least out of earshot of the official.

[middle mans mate]

Fair enough Mr Manning, but if I had said "thankyou ref excellant game as usual" would I have been reported, after all both comments are my honest opinion, and when did giving my opinion in a polite manner count as abuse?

[truros mr mourinho]

Just wanted to congratulate last nights referee, Dave Goard on an outstanding performance at Bodmin. In my humble opinion, by some distance the the best refereeing performance I have seen this season. It was so good in fact you didn't even notice he was out on the park!!!!

The secret? again in my humble opinion - He talked to the players, not at them. He explained his decisions when required. He kept up with play. He allowed his assistants to make decisions and he got all the 'big' decisions correct.

More of the same please - WELL DONE !!!!!

hi leigh how are u mate,long time no see,and is that the same g poll that gave 2 yellows and never sent the player off :SM_carton:

[B Manning]

middle mans mate , i can see your point but it`s not how you say things it`s how a comment is perceived by others, so not just in football but in life there are times when to say nothing is the best course of action.

[truros mr mourinho]

there are a few good refs in the SWPL but also plenty of not so good ones, some referees do not like any critisism whether its said in jest or not. A few weeks back I shook the refs hand at the end of the game said "thankyou ref abysmal as usual", and that terrible bit of abuse has cost me £43 from the nice guys at the CCFA !

well mate least you know that all thouse nice guys can have all there freebies,hotels etc out of your £43 :SM_carton:

[B Manning]

truros mr mourinho, the saying people in glass houses etc springs to mind as there probably is more cash sloshing around at Truro City FC than there is at the CCFA.

[truros mr mourinho]

truros mr mourinho, the saying people in glass houses etc springs to mind as there probably is more cash sloshing around at Truro City FC than there is at the CCFA.

hit a nerve did i,and for your information the sloshing has stopped, :huh:

[B Manning]

No nerve hit just a comment to keep things in perspective perhaps.