fair play

[haylemed]

could anyone tell me if there is a fair play table at the end of the season red and yellow cards etc.i dont think hayle had a player sent off all season.can someone correct me if i,m wrong,penisular west in particular.

[Dave Deacon]

Keep an eye on the "Discipline" page on the SWPL website. Not obviously complete for the season yet.

[haylemed]

cheers dave on the ball as usual.

[jafs]

funny how i just clicked on daves discipline link there to be taken to a page which has written at the top "NO respect, No referee, NO game"....yea fair comment! but when a referee makes a mistake and has yet to come out and admit that mistake. How can we as players, spectators or club officials, honestly respect that official for future games!??????

[hoppit]

funny how i just clicked on daves discipline link there to be taken to a page which has written at the top "NO respect, No referee, NO game"....yea fair comment! but when a referee makes a mistake and has yet to come out and admit that mistake. How can we as players, spectators or club officials, honestly respect that official for future games!??????

I was ref for years and if i made a genuine mistake would always apologise,but it did'nt make any difference whatsoever,still got treated with total lack of respect one of the reasons i retired. Did'nt hear to many apologies from players fans or club officials when they were abusive or made total **** ups,so respect works both ways.

[jafs]

yea fair comment hoppit. i'm reffering to the recent respect campaign that has been emphasised over recent months! the game is different in the way that players shake hands before games now etc...... how can the FA demand more respect from players to officials when one decision has made a massive impact on the league! now i'm not gonna say that it cost callington the title cause we had our chances to get back in and fair play to perranporth they ended our chance on wednesday night! however, when the league gave camelford the option to award the points if they were happy to, which reg hambley had mentioned....... they turned around and said no......... it was 4-0 to callington with 7-8 mins left..... not the 20 minutes the ref made in his report! WHY has the league given camelford the option???? surely it should be up to the league what they do!! after all they created this league!! the league doesnt lie, and over all camelford are worthy winners of the title, would have been interesting to see how they managed had we played the 8 mins more and took the 3 points and closed the gap with still 4 weeks of the season left! RESPECT! ...... I have lost all respect for the league after this and as much as the referee has made a mistake, the league made a bigger one by handing camelford the choice....... SHAMBLES comes to mind!

[Dave Deacon]

surely it should be up to the league what they do!!

But they did in the end - isn't it a case that for a game to be finished, 90 minutes has to be completed?

[B Manning]

Dave, to be more accurate a game consists of two equal halves therefore if a game is abandoned in the second half it cannot be considered to be a game. Also jafs, have you read the literature on the respect campaign I would think not, if that is the case please do.

[Jeff's Telling]

Dave, to be more accurate a game consists of two equal halves therefore if a game is abandoned in the second half it cannot be considered to be a game. Also jafs, have you read the literature on the respect campaign I would think not, if that is the case please do.

I think what Jafs is saying can be summed up

- players make mistakes and get booked, sent off and/or suspended, and this is in the public domain - press, CCFA website

- in this case the referee made a catastrophic mistake, and also reported two different times when he abandoned the game, but we hear nothing of the action taken against the referee as a consequence of his errors

Therefore in terms of Respect this should mean equal treatment for officials, referees and players but basically in this case it appears nothing is being done about the referee

Oh, and before you reply ( a small handful of refs are always right aren't they and love the last word)both Camelford & Callington Town have exemplary disciplinary records this season - see the SWPL website - I suggest you read that !

[St Darren]

All referee's are great and consistent, we all know that!!

for instance, a ref said to us the other week, you can swear all you want at yourself, at the ground, at the ball, at the corner flag, but don't swear at another player or him. Fair enough, no problem with that. Next referee we have, no swearing at all.

Likewise - and a real bug - some referee's ask for substitutes names to be given before the game, or you can't have any subs, some referee's come and ask for the subs names, other referee's don't even ask for the subs and allow them to take place.

now surely there's a consistent rule for all of those? maybe then, more players will understand things slightly clearer. This may not even be the referee's fault but could be the FA's fault, but surely it should be something across the board on both of those subjects.

I look forward to the defence case by B Manning

[B Manning]

St Darren , you have answered it yourself, the human being is not consistant, regarding subs all you have to do is give the referee the subs names before the start ( as per the LOAF) hey ho no more problems, as to foul language do you really want us to follow the letter of the law I think not, so just accept that some of us have different tolerance levels, it depends entirely how it`s done, if it`s directed straight at me or an opponent/ team mate then a red card is on it`s way, the player who out of frustration uses it, from myself will get the calm down words. So really there is no defending to be done. Now Jeffs Telling, I was not at the game you refer to so cannot comment on your perception that the referee made "a catastrophic mistake " , all I can say is as per an earlier post of mine, if the referee decided that failing light was becoming a player safety issue then he was correct to abandon the game. It is totally irrelevant how much time was or was not played, if the second half was not of equal time to the first then the League have rules on the course of action that they take.

[St Darren]

Tolerence levels is fine, no problem with that, that goes the same for hard tackling, but surely we can't be that far apart, in saying, yes, swear all you like, and then, no swearing at all?

So the LOAF say, give the subs names to the referee, once again, no problem with that, but then some refs don't want to know the names, so where's the consistency in the laws there? its no wonder that managers and players a like get frustrated when the rules constantly change week in week out.

[B Manning]

St Darren, the rules do not constantly change, if you give the referee the subs name before the start of the game then you have complied with the LOAF and there can be no repercussion back onto your team, if the referee decides he does not want/need the names then thats his problem not yours to worry about (my opinion is he should take the names and if I was assessing him I would mark accordingly), the main thing is for you and your team to act in a professional manner at all times that way you cannot fall foul of anyone or anything.

[St Darren]

OK, appreciate what you're saying and I understand it. But I can also imagine the frustration that some managers get with it.

With regards to your comments on Jeff Telling, I don't think he is concerned about the fact of the failing light, I think its more to do with the inaccuracies in the referee's timing of events which aren't consistent.

and just a quick question, if there is a blatant handball, by which I mean, its obvious that the ball has hit the hand of a player (in the box), which the referee deems accidental, can he still award a penalty?

[bighairydave]

and just a quick question, if there is a blatant handball, by which I mean, its obvious that the ball has hit the hand of a player (in the box), which the referee deems accidental, can he still award a penalty?

If the referee believes it is accidental then they should not give a penalty. But different referees may have a different opinion on whether the hand ball was deliberate and thus award a penalty if they think so.

[St Darren]

what if the ref says it was accidental and still gives it???

by the way, I would have given the penalty in this instance cos it was that obvious that the ball hit his hand, but the ref said it was accidental

[B Manning]

St Darren, again you have answered this yourself, in LOAF handball must be deliberate, therefore if the referee deems it to be accidental then no foul has taken place and no penalty should be awarded. If as in your post the referee makes the statement it was accidental and then awards a penalty he has made a serious error. But again your comment "it was obvious the ball hit his hand" does not make it handball. But personally I cannot see how a referee makes the statement it was accidental and then award a penalty.

[St Darren]

Thats what I thought! but that is what he said!

There wasn't a lot of complaints cos it was clear handball. But he did say it was accidental. In his defence, I would have given the penalty!

that handball law is a nightmare for all. Either its accidental or its deliberate. Deliberate handball being a cautionable offence, me standing 5 yards from the ball and getting hit in the arm, is handball! but where's my deliberate act?? stupid chuffing laws!!

[Magic Mike]

Thats what I thought! but that is what he said!

There wasn't a lot of complaints cos it was clear handball. But he did say it was accidental. In his defence, I would have given the penalty!

that handball law is a nightmare for all. Either its accidental or its deliberate. Deliberate handball being a cautionable offence, me standing 5 yards from the ball and getting hit in the arm, is handball! but where's my deliberate act?? stupid chuffing laws!!

At least you know that association football has laws of the game and not rules pal!

A lot of people don't actually know that!

[St Darren]

I wrote rules first and then changed it to laws

there to be broken anyway aren't they???

only joking Mr Manning!!!

[green&whitebarmyarmy]

Would that mean that if a player is crossing a ball and a defender turns his head and puts his arms out and the ball hits his arm that its not a penalty as its not deliberate?

[Argyle Fan]

Would that mean that if a player is crossing a ball and a defender turns his head and puts his arms out and the ball hits his arm that its not a penalty as its not deliberate?

I think as soon as you raise your arms any contact between arm & ball is likely to be a penalty.

The ones that I don't understand are when the player keeps his arms by his side and the ball is belted at him from short range and hits his arm. More often than not this is given as a penalty but perhaps shouldn't be?

[Adlestrop]

To all referees: ask yourselves the following question- "Just how many defenders DELIBERATELY handle the ball in the

penalty area?" Apart from preventing the ball from entering the goal,I would suggest the answer has to be NONE!

[jafs]

surely it should be up to the league what they do!!

But they did in the end - isn't it a case that for a game to be finished, 90 minutes has to be completed?

!

Dave, if u know the full story u'll know that the league didnt sort anything out! camelford were left to make the decision......by the league! so if u say that leaving the decision with the home team sorts matters then ye sure...well done!! jeff's telling ur spot on with my point! unfortunately too many people are blind to these things!

[The Villains]

To all referees: ask yourselves the following question- "Just how many defenders DELIBERATELY handle the ball in the

penalty area?" Apart from preventing the ball from entering the goal,I would suggest the answer has to be NONE!

RUBBISH............. What about the vidic handball vs Everton!! No Pen awarded

Dawson vs Blackpool...... Pen awarded

If defenders THINK they can get away with it ..... They WILL try it on

[hoppit]

surely it should be up to the league what they do!!

But they did in the end - isn't it a case that for a game to be finished, 90 minutes has to be completed?

!

Dave, if u know the full story u'll know that the league didnt sort anything out! camelford were left to make the decision......by the league! so if u say that leaving the decision with the home team sorts matters then ye sure...well done!! jeff's telling ur spot on with my point! unfortunately too many people are blind to these things!

Jafs yours is really a moral argument, i saw Camelford play Truro last week, Truro had first teamers playing and won 2 1,they did nothing wrong according to league rules but they play 6 levels higher and were the difference on the night scoring the goals,surely this is morally wrong they had nothing to play for but could have cost Camels the league,and made next weeks game Camels v Cally a league decider not ideal for anyone.As the league seemed not to have made the decision to replay the above game but left it to Camelford to decide, and as Liverton and Budleigh from the east don'nt want to be promoted why can't they bend the rules again and send top 2 from the west up then everyone would be happy? Going back to the ref story refereeing at this level is voluntary so if he is disciplined i.e banned for a period,it means another load of games without a ref.not ideal,purely my opinions no outside interest.

[Mr unorthodox]

funny how i just clicked on daves discipline link there to be taken to a page which has written at the top "NO respect, No referee, NO game"....yea fair comment! but when a referee makes a mistake and has yet to come out and admit that mistake. How can we as players, spectators or club officials, honestly respect that official for future games!??????

Jaffa frustrated as hell when you know the referee is wrong, he knows he is wrong, the one man and his dog knows he is wrong but he doesnt admit it!! However in my experience, when refereeing, you can give an advantage and the team scores from it, good play as a referee, yet you will not get a well done or any appreciation from a player. It seems the only communication between player and referee is negative! Im not saying the referee applauds all good play but often they do acknowledge good play, so surely something like the example given the captain can acknowledge and except if it wasnt for the referees actions his team wouldnt of scored. Not saying players should be pedantic about it or use it to be sarcastic, but it does aid towards showing the referee some respect!

The shaking hands thing is a waste of time to from a referee and players perspective, it means nothing, doesnt demonstrate the players show any real respect for opposition or officials, and often leaves players feeling slightly stupid at lining up to face the one man and his dog behind the dugout!

[green&whitebarmyarmy]

I must agree with the above statement. As a captain i do generally applaud a ref if i think he's made a good decision or played a good advantage, as everyone has said reffing is such a hard job and towards the end of the season almost every match report posted had more about the ref than the game. I'm no angel when It comes to refs, i get frustrated like everyone but i think its important to praise good ref performances, and also linesman for that as they do a very hard job also.

But football is all about opinions and peoples will always differ. If refs can get the big decisions correct the majority of players and management will be happy.

[Can't keep up?!]

surely it should be up to the league what they do!!

But they did in the end - isn't it a case that for a game to be finished, 90 minutes has to be completed?

!

Dave, if u know the full story u'll know that the league didnt sort anything out! camelford were left to make the decision......by the league! so if u say that leaving the decision with the home team sorts matters then ye sure...well done!! jeff's telling ur spot on with my point! unfortunately too many people are blind to these things!

Jafs yours is really a moral argument, i saw Camelford play Truro last week, Truro had first teamers playing and won 2 1,they did nothing wrong according to league rules but they play 6 levels higher and were the difference on the night scoring the goals,surely this is morally wrong they had nothing to play for but could have cost Camels the league,and made next weeks game Camels v Cally a league decider not ideal for anyone.As the league seemed not to have made the decision to replay the above game but left it to Camelford to decide, and as Liverton and Budleigh from the east don'nt want to be promoted why can't they bend the rules again and send top 2 from the west up then everyone would be happy? Going back to the ref story refereeing at this level is voluntary so if he is disciplined i.e banned for a period,it means another load of games without a ref.not ideal,purely my opinions no outside interest.

I agree with Hoppits point here. As a Camelford player playing in the match against Truro the other day, clearly it was a nice challenge to play against players of a higher level being Andy Watkins and Dan Smith. Both were immense for Truro 2nds that day but this sort of thing does however distort the leagues. You regularly see a reserve team (which has a club in a higher league) use their first team players for their reserve team games towards the end of the season to help accrue points to fight relegation. This disadvantages other teams title aspirations and often results in the smaller clubs being relegated, where often they should not be. Is there any way of resolving this? A potential restriction on first team players being able to play for the second team maybe? Thoughts?

[haylemed]

funny how i just clicked on daves discipline link there to be taken to a page which has written at the top "NO respect, No referee, NO game"....yea fair comment! but when a referee makes a mistake and has yet to come out and admit that mistake. How can we as players, spectators or club officials, honestly respect that official for future games!??????

I was ref for years and if i made a genuine mistake would always apologise,but it did'nt make any difference whatsoever,still got treated with total lack of respect one of the reasons i retired. Did'nt hear to many apologies from players fans or club officials when they were abusive or made total **** ups,so respect works both ways.

what a lot of players and officials totally forget is that if a player has a bad game he is covered by 10 of his team mates or substituted by the manager.as a class 1 referee for a number of years i made lots of mistakes,. why because i am human.but i still had the respect of both players and managers,as did most referees.now its a case, nearly everybody picks on the ref if the result goes against them.it might not be a bad idea if managers ( if they are fit enough). to ref a few games themselves pre season friendlies or such like.then they might understand refs a bit more.just remember no ref no game.