At last !

[Nemesis]

First the good news http://www.bbc.co.uk...rce=twitterfeed

... and it just gets better !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18244640

[riggins74]

It was a sad day for Cornish Sport yesterday and for Cornwall as a whole.However you feel about the funding of SC4. Nevertheless it's all ok Nemesis is happy that his fellow friends outside Cornwall can eat as many pasties without paying tax. I can see that you like pasties Nemesis, but as you can read on this forum people are becoming a little bored with your comments regarding this subject and you are in the minority.

Actually im sure you would be welcome onto the Council this year. The S4C will happen and people of Cornwall will always win the fight. The efforts of the supporters of SC4 have done themselves proud and must keep fighthing for what they believe in.

Not that you have ever visited the Pirates to watch rubgy. Why not post on their forum and express your views, im sure they will be delighted with your contribution. http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/list/s369.htm?697. You have a lot to say on a football forum

Pretty obivious you wont, but would love to see the response.

Full Council re elections in 12 months, 9 votes to turn around. Planning permission agreed in principle. You would have to be very naive to think this is in the end.

Good luck to the CP on Wednesday in the 2nd leg!!!!

[Nemesis]

Those in favour of a publicly funded stadium were a massive minority of the population of Cornwall. The two multi-millionaire owner can easily afford to cough up £24m if they wanted to. Those who moan about my comments are in an even smaller minority and are entitled to their opinions, as I am.

As for the Rugger Buggers, perhaps the 2,000 that attend should ask the 400 City fans to join them in finding £10,000 each to pay for it, they would be the only ones using it after all.

I love a good pasty along with the majority of Cornish residents, therein lies the difference between the two stories highlighted above.

[riggins74]

Ha ha you are so far off the mark it's laughable, hence your six line reply. Kevin Heaney afford it? Slight flaw in that comment don’t you think? Dickie Evans cannot either afford those figures, thats pretty obvious as well. Don’t you think he would have done this before pumping in millions pounds of wages into the club.

As for your figures for attendances at rugby matches ,another flaw!!! The numbers have decreased since the move away from Camborne Rec and Kenwyn, but this is purely down to geographical issues. If you take the average over ten years I think you will find the number is easily over 3500, with the biggest crowds between 5500 - 7000.

My sediment exactly you more interested in eating a pasty....... . I take it you won’t be posting on the pirate’s forum then. I can create an account for you if you wish.

[Nemesis]

I stand corrected. If the Pirates really do have many more thousands of fans than they publicly declare for every home game, then the cost per fan will be reduced, even more of a bargain.

Just to answer Riggins fully, I have cobbled together points previously posted...

Still too many people taken in by the Concerts and Conference facilities nonsense at S4C. Home Park has hosted and failed to sell out some of the biggest names in POP, why would going another 60 miles west make it more attractive to those who might attend ? Cornwall already hosts some of the biggest names of today at the Boardmasters and Eden Sessions, a small 10,000 stadium could not host U2 or other 'World Brand' groups.

If a business wanted to use Cornwall for a conference, would the organiser hold it at a nice hotel with sea views, or on an industrial estate just outside Truro ?

Truro City are too small, always have been, always will be. Even if they made League 2, crowds would be less than 1,500 average. Argyle get 3,000 Cornish fans every home game, they wouldn't support Truro. The Pirates are the only ones who NEED the stadium, so let the Millionaire owner pay for it. Cornwall Council must ask why they are on the end of a begging bowl, surely if the idea of S4C is a good one, a Multi-Millionaire would jump at the chance to build and operate it. It would make no sense to locate it anywhere but Camborne/Redruth/Pool. Regardless of where it may eventually be built no taxpayers money should be used.

The scheme is a cash cow, tax-payers should not be asked to pay a penny towards it. Evans would cover break even costs (for 10 years), suggesting it would make a loss during and after that period. Why in that case, would anyone, including Cornwall Council, want to get involved in a loss making scheme ?

My opinion of Heaney has nothing to do with the so called S4C, I am more concerned about the financial cost to taxpayers. The question remains, if it is such a fantastic scheme, why doesn't either of the two Multi-Millionaires pay for it themselves ? As yet, no one has put forward a sensible case for spending tax payers money on what is acknowledged as a loss making scheme. As I have repeatedly stated, if Truro City and/or The Cornish Pirates want a stadium, let them build it using their own money, both owners can certainly afford it.

[countyman]

As a casual reader of comments on hhere about the stadium, I have a simple mathematical question.

£24million to build. (lets round it up to 25 - easier to work out and probably more likely to rise anyway)

Lets say 50 years of use.

£500,000 profit required each year just to repay the build cost (not including interest).

Thats almost £10,000 profit required Each week. Every week. For 50 years.

And it STILL wont have made any money!!!!

If private investors wish to go ahead I cannot see anyone standing in their way. But leave OUR money out of it. Anyone who thinks the Council has £10million to waste must have their heads in the sand - wake up - try Dragons Den and see what they think of the proposal!

[Mr Justice]

If private investors wish to go ahead I cannot see anyone standing in their way. But leave OUR money out of it. Anyone who thinks the Council has £10million to waste must have their heads in the sand - wake up - try Dragons Den and see what they think of the proposal!

Would the people of Cornwall have to pay a council surcharge like London residents to fund the Olympics?

In the words of Duncan Bannatyne " I'm Out! "

My advice would to be go out and find other investors in the business community, if they see it as viable they will find the cash.

[B Manning]

Surely if it was a viable project then any investors would have been knockiing the door down to put their money in. I have to agree with countyman and Nemesis, Ye gods what have I said !. Nemesis must be maturing I did a game at Newquay and he didn`t shout at me.

[Argyle Fan]

I know you don't get much for 24 million nowadays but this does seem excessive for what looks like a very basic small stadium.

When Home Park was sold back to the City Council last year the price was little more than a million pounds. Even at the height of the excesses of the previous regime the "value" of the stadium was only 10 million.

Seems to me that S4C involves spending over the odds for a stadium which will never make money.

I would say that the councillors got it spot on.

[chairman]

The only problem I see is that we cannot trust the Council leaders not to deal behind our backs.

[Goldeneye]

Surely if it was a viable project then any investors would have been knockiing the door down to put their money in.

So your saying that the Council should only invest in projects that are going to show a monetary return! Cornwall Council gives an annual subsidy of £3m to £4m to Newquay Airport, because they think it's very important that Cornwall has an airport. The same argument could be made for the stadium. I recent times the Council has given £14.5m to the Heartlands Project, £4m to the Tate, St Ives and £1.8m to the Eden Project. Are all these viable investments which will show a return to the Council? How many of these projects came with a guarantee, (as with the stadium), that any losses in the first 10 years will be covered?

It seems to me that the objectors to the Council investing in the Stadium, (in the words of Oscar Wilde), 'know the price of everything, but the value of nothing'.

[Richard Rundle]

I say well done to those at Cornwall Council. Far better ways of spending our money than a stadium, even if I do love my football.

[Goldeneye]

I say well done to those at Cornwall Council. Far better ways of spending our money than a stadium, even if I do love my football.

Such as?

[Lucky 13]

Perhaps Cornwall Council should look to raising more money to add to their surplus £1 billion pounds (£250M last year).One way to raise funds could be to charge Newquay Football Club a commercial rent and not a peppercorn one as they currently do.Why should the people of Cornwall subsidise such things as a Cornish football club ? I believe the same may apply to Bodmin also.

[Nemesis]

I think you will find that the 'peppercorn rent' exceeds that of renting a council pitch for a season. That is all Newquay do, the buildings, grandstand, changing rooms and clubhouse were all built and paid for by the club and not subject to rent.

I love the way that supporters of Truro and/or the stadium when they are unable to come up with any sensible comments, attack those who oppose them. Lets get back to the actual story and the fact that Cornwall Council are to be applauded for not throwing money at what is clearly a loss making project. They have obviously learnt from the World Cup bid fiasco and do not want to be seen as making a similar mistake.

[modfather]

My sentiment exactly you more interested in eating a pasty....... . I take it you won’t be posting on the pirate’s forum then. I can create an account for you if you wish.

it could be that Nemesis/The Judge was pleased about the VAT u-turn on static caravans....just saying, like - I'm not for Truro City drowning in an over sized stadium but it's a sad state of affairs that Cornwall will forever remain the poor relation to the rest of the UK when it comes to sports facilities, £26 million being spent by Cornwall Council to get a handful of cruise ships into Falmouth harbour whoopee!

[Goldeneye]

Cornwall Council are to be applauded for not throwing money at what is clearly a loss making project.

So that means that Nemesis is not in favour of the annual subsidy, (about £4m), that Cornwall Council gives Newquay Airport to keep it afloat. Without the subsidy Newquay Airport would close and Newquay FC would lose it's sponsor Flybe!

[riggins74]

I have posted before raising these issues and asked what consist's of our council tax?

Are you happy with what you pay?

Are you proud of the sevices that CC provide?

Pleased with the state of our roads?

Policing on the streets?

Collection of waste?

God the list goes on and on. Of course we are not, we moan weekly in local newspapers, we phone into radio stations, we write to councillors. Does anything get done?

So Cornwall Council are doing a great job and should be applauded. Hmm well I will let you answer that question.

What benefits do we get from paying our council tax? I certainly cannot name many. The fat lady has sang and no funding will be provided from CC thats a fact (for a minute) .Lets hope a private investor can save Cornish Sport. Or are we just happy to be a sleeping giant with no ambition.

[Nemesis]

Just to answer a few of the points raised. Caravan tax reduced, yes it is a good thing, it was clearly a tax aimed at the poor.

Cornwall Council own Newquay Airport, if it were to close for any reason, Flybe would hardly notice, it is hardly a major cog in their wheel. Funding for the airport will reduce as and when new airline are attracted to Newquay and passenger figures rise. Dicky has already stated that S4C will be a loss maker for at least 10 years and almost certainly for decades thereafter.

I said CC are to be applauded for not throwing good money after bad, I still rate them as one of the worst run organisations ever, but it is a start.

Finally, I agree with Riggins, lets hope a private investor can save S4C (I think that Cornish Sport is quite healthy actually) perhaps a couple of multi-millionaires who run two sports clubs would like to contribute ?

I think that the majority of posters have sided with the Taxpayer. Most of us would support a private venture, I would. It would bring building jobs etc; whilst being built (make sure you don't take cheques lads). The only problem is the jobs that would be lost aftwards when S4C lost money week in week out, and that is exactly why Heaney and Dicky won't pay for it, they know it is a loss making, cash cow.

[Goldeneye]

One rule for Newquay Airport an another for the Stadium! Newquay Airport will not make a profit for a long time - passenger numbers fell by 80,000 last year! Don't get me wrong I agree with Cornwall Council supporting Newquay Airport the County needs it, but I believe a stadium is also needed.

Did Dickie Evans said he expected the stadium to make a losses or did he say that iflosses were made in the first 10 years he would

cover them!

[Nemesis]

Newquay Airport brings in £24m worth of business per annum to the County or about £75-80m for a £10m investment over 3yrs. Any proposed S4C share to CC is currently estimated to be £10m (although this would almost certainly rise as most building projects do) this would result in a potential benefit to the local economy of £1-3m dependant on whether the Pirates could actually get to the Premiership. The actual running costs of S4C would result in a loss, the question must be, why start a new loss making investment ?

CC are not known for making good financial decisions, Icelandic Banks, Plymouth World Cup bid etc, so for them to reject this proposal shows some common sense, something that has been lacking at County Hall for many a year.

At least we can all agree that S4C is desirable but not currently affordable, be it public or private money.

[St Darren]

I can't see that anything that Nemisis has written isn't what the majority of people in Cornwall are thinking!

The Pirates need a stadium to progress, there's no doubt about that. TCFC could surely develop their ground to accommodate the level they are at now and be sustainable for a few years. Or does Mr Heaney wish to sell the land so he can make a few million on Treyew Road and get a stadium where they pay a yearly rent?

[hammers]

I Agree with what Cornwall Council have done in turning down Finance for the Cornwall Stadium,

for these Reasons, the Country & the County are going through tough Financial times at the Moment,

Just go out onto our Roads, they are falling apart, a few years ago one could say that the roads in Cornwall were without doubt as good if not better than many other Counties in this Country, Not any more,

Why because like many other Counties Cornwall is short of Finance,

the people of this County are being asked to fork out even more for the services provided by our Council we now have to pay to have our Garden rubish collected, to pay for the bins to put it in,

Car parking is costing more,

we have young people looking for Jobs,

I would like to see a Stadium for Cornwall But only when we can afford it,

Just Think of the out cry from those who are trying to find jobs, to feed their families,& some Pensioners who cannot afford to heat their Homes, to pay their Mortgages, Gas, Electricity, etc.

know doubt those who are now condemning the Council, would also be the first to complain about the state of our roads, once Council had given them the Money,

Now if the Council were to find some extra finance to help create jobs for those who are unemployed, (in particular the young) I would supprot it,

So come on folks let us all be realistic about the Stadium for Cornwall, yes let us have one But only when we can afford it,

Hammers :c:

[The Python]

Am I right in saying that a certain airline that uses Newquay airport also sponsors Newquay Football club, and the gentleman who started this thread happens to be involved with that club ( I can see why you would try and convince us Cornish people that the airport is still an attractive project).My question to him is if your figures are correct why is CC still pumping money into this project and not the buisness's that are making money out of the airport?

[St Darren]

Question you got to ask yourself. If you were a successful businessman, would you pay towards a S4C? as a businessman surely you'd be looking at a return for your investment. Ask Alan Sugar if he'd be willing to put money towards it.

The Airport is totally different, there is nothing else like it in Cornwall. Its a quicker link to other parts of the UK and Europe, Whats the S4C going to bring?

• Conference Facilities - already plenty of those options around
  
• Live Entertainment Venue - already, Eden Project, Hall for Cornwall, Boardmasters venue
  
• Sports facilities - The Pirates are the only tema that need it because they have the chance of progression and getting crowds of 6000/7000 in every week. TCFC already have a ground that is adequate for their needs.
  

[hammers]

Question you got to ask yourself. If you were a successful businessman, would you pay towards a S4C? as a businessman surely you'd be looking at a return for your investment. Ask Alan Sugar if he'd be willing to put money towards it.

The Airport is totally different, there is nothing else like it in Cornwall. Its a quicker link to other parts of the UK and Europe, Whats the S4C going to bring?

• Conference Facilities - already plenty of those options around
  
• Live Entertainment Venue - already, Eden Project, Hall for Cornwall, Boardmasters venue
  
• Sports facilities - The Pirates are the only tema that need it because they have the chance of progression and getting crowds of 6000/7000 in every week. TCFC already have a ground that is adequate for their needs.
  

Spot on St Darren, The airport is by far the safer bet on bring wealth to our County than a Stadium for Cornwall,

Manchester United with all of the support they get, is Millions of pounds in Debt,

Like most for things Cornwall is the wrong end of the Country.

Hammers :c:

[Guest Monty]

Totally agree with the statements that the stadium is a bad idea, Home park could not even hold a decent concert and we have enough adequate facilities for other organisations etc. If pirates need a stadium then they should raise the monies themselves and push forward as a club under the club at own expensies. i think Truro City have all there support and not likely to get much more, and if supporters are finding £10 a time to watch them is steep then they will find that watching them at a new stadium is going to be steeper. As for Newquay Airport, i dont think it is offerering a service to locals as one presumes unless you want to fly somewhere crap, If it closes no one would miss it, far cheaper and easier to drive to Exeter, Bristol or London and fly or indeed if destination is this country then just drive. Youv`e only got to look at the attendances for County Finals and indeed County Rep sides in all sports and the fact its not aswell supported as it should be, so to me its a not so good idea and should be put to bed and spend public monies on essentials that will make a difference.

[Nemesis]

Am I right in saying that a certain airline that uses Newquay airport also sponsors Newquay Football club, and the gentleman who started this thread happens to be involved with that club ( I can see why you would try and convince us Cornish people that the airport is still an attractive project).My question to him is if your figures are correct why is CC still pumping money into this project and not the buisness's that are making money out of the airport?

Really ? If you need to ask the question, you obviously have no grasp of how investments and businesses work. I will try to simplify it for you.

CC gives NQY £10m over 3 years, this generates £75-80m for the Cornish Economy, makes good business sense. NQY will only grow with more airlines and passengers in future.

If CC gave S4C £10m, it may possibly generate £1-3m for local businesses dependant on the Pirates getting promotion (which is not guaranteed), not a good return on public money. Furthermore the actual Stadium will lose money on a weekly basis for decade to come.

A sugar daddy is needed with a big Russian Bank account to get S4C going.

[Goldeneye]

The objectors to the stadium continue to mix up CAPITAL BUDGETS and REVENUE BUDGETS. It has been confirmed that Cornwall Council has a 10 year CAPITAL BUDGET of £1 BILLION. The stadium investment of £10m would therefore represent 1% of the budget. The Chairman of Cornwall Council has confirmed that the Council could afford it, if approved.

I notice that there is no criticism of the £14.5m to the Heartlands Project, £4m to the Tate, St Ives and £1.8m to the Eden Project. Probably because it weakens the anti Stadium Case!

Nemesis says that Newquay Airport will continue to grow, but the latest figures show that passenger numbers decresed by 80,000 over a 12 month period!

[Nemesis]

Newquay Airport is a long term viable business, it will grow (I didn't say continue) in the future, as will all airports who have seen a downturn (Cardiff lost a million passengers). Newquay is well placed for new airlines to come in, as are aviation businesses at the Air Park.

A Stadium would be a White Elephant, used twice a week at best. There is no point trying to argue the case, it has been lost, there are far too many reasons not to have a Stadium, many have been listed by forum members here. Furthermore, it is not the Councils money, it is the Taxpayers of Cornwall who pay too much already in Council Tax, this would have been an additional burden on a majority of residents who have little or no interest in S4C.

Once again, I will repeat. A stadium is a nice thought, if a private enterprise would build it, it would be welcomed by just about everyone, including me.

[Mr.T]

I have posted before raising these issues and asked what consist's of our council tax?

Are you happy with what you pay?

Are you proud of the sevices that CC provide?

Pleased with the state of our roads?

Policing on the streets?

Collection of waste?

God the list goes on and on. Of course we are not, we moan weekly in local newspapers, we phone into radio stations, we write to councillors. Does anything get done?

So Cornwall Council are doing a great job and should be applauded. Hmm well I will let you answer that question.

What benefits do we get from paying our council tax? I certainly cannot name many. The fat lady has sang and no funding will be provided from CC thats a fact (for a minute) .Lets hope a private investor can save Cornish Sport. Or are we just happy to be a sleeping giant with no ambition.

Doesn't our Council Tax pay council employees salaries. :)

[truros mr mourinho]

councilers,over paid underworked shoot the lot of them.

[Nemesis]

Back to business, this is a footy forum so lets forget the rugger buggers.

Now that dummies have been spat out, toys thrown from prams, what does everyone think the future for Truro City will be now ?

[riggins74]

Really healthy debate so well done Nemesis and others for sharing thier views. For anybody who missed BBC Spotlight news, Dickie Evans was interviewed, he qouted "We will now look to fund the stadium with private funding", You can only think that Dickie always had a plan B. Pirates fans will be happy with that news. In fact he said he was going to have a "little chat" with a man called "Firoz Kassam" after the match. :thumbsup:

As i have mentoned in previous posts this project was always going to happen, but when? That debate is for another day. Good luck to the CP tonight :c: