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Can I just say before anyone else jumps on the bandwagon like PAUL did in another thread?

I had nothing to do with the idiotic behaviour of the West Ham or Millwall fans inside or outside of Upton Park tonight, What has happened was always going to happen and measures should have been put into place but obviously were not and only the organizers at West Ham and the Police are to blame not me

I was infact unable to attend tonight’s game as I could not get the day off work and I ended up out for a cheeky little nosebag (Meal) with family and I enjoyed it very much thank you

Violence happens on a bigger scale every weekend around Europe and we hear nothing but as soon as something like this happens here the wrong people get the blame (Most of the time)

Read into this what you will and don’t have a pop at me ok, I was not there I did not organise the trouble, I do not condone the violence and hope the thugs involved are caught and banned for life

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Guest The Judge aka RED OR DEAD

Whilst those of us of a certain age will remember the 80's when this sort of thing happened at most grounds on a weekly basis, I find it strange that so much media coverage has been given to the events of last night.

If a streaker invades the pitch, cameras are told to point away. A few idiots who run onto the pitch to goad the Millwall fans and some minor disturbances inside the ground are all over the TV. Obviously, the incidents outside the ground are a different matter but the CCTV pics show West Ham behind fencing which if they really wanted to, could have knocked over. Obviously other skirmishes took place and someone got stabbed (hope they recover and the culprit dealt with by the law).

However, up and down the country, in Gangsta Britain, people are stabbed and shot almost daily in supposed gang warfare. Football Hooliganism was taken away from the terraces and put onto the streets but nothing like the mass scale battles of years past. You can be certain, that most of those involved in last nights incidents would not normally attend a match at either West Ham or Millwall, they would have been the older louts of years past trying to relive thier youth and settle some old scores.

I do not condone violence in any way shape or form but the matter has to be taken in context, the TV coverage has blown it out of all proportion compared to the scum that are currently ruining Britain on a daily basis.

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The Judge aka RED OR DEAD :clapper:

I could not agree more, I am old enough to remember the 80s and what went on but you are spot on with the post fella

There is a lot more to this than meets the eye, The trouble outside of the ground was organised when the draw was made I guarantee that and people are only seeing what the media want them to see

I have not seen anything about the Millwall fans driving around Upton Park in minibuses and looking for a ruck at 3pm in the afternoon but I have it on very good authority that this is just one of the many things that happened yesterday which nobody will ever hear of, not that I am just blaming the Millwall fans because I am not

I think this will be blown out of all proportion as you say and it will just give the F.A another chance to get there dirty claws into West Ham as they know they fcuked up with the Tevez affair

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Agree here with the Judge.

I think the difference with last night was that the trouble was inside and outside the ground.

This has got the powers to be in a state because it has been seen by everyone.

These people who run the League beleive that because generally there is no trouble at the grounds,they

have sorted the problem of hooliganism.

I will tell you,they have'nt.

I have been going to White Hart Lane for many a year,and can tell you every time we play West Ham,

Chelsea, and the goons,there is massive police presence,and ALWAYS TROUBLE.

You know where it is going to happen,if you want to get involved you go there ,if you dont you go in the

oppisite direction.

Hooliganism has never gone away,the powers to be just moved it from the grounds.

There are still massive Firms about,planning beforehand their confortations,just like last night.

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Seriously man, whats your problem. No one ever accused you of starting anything? I simply asked for your thoughts. Nothing else. I was quite intrested to see what you thought. I had no idea you were even in London!!

I no that if you want a scrap at a football match you can find it somewhere. But do it, dont be weak and chuck glass and bricks at horses. Thats just spinless. You watch the footage, most of em would kick a slug in anger......just love being there thinking their causing trouble.

The police should have let them get on with it.

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What annoys me at times is the way it's always labelled "football violence", etc. Football is just the vehicle for it. It was all pre-planned and most of it was outside the ground. It's nowhere as near as bad as 20 years ago and it's certainly far worse in many other countries.

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Cockneyboy.....hows it feel to see a load of Animals inside Upton Park tonight?

If your hard enough to have a scrap then go outside. But get off the pitch as half of em are that fat they might dent the pitch. Went there with Argyle and it made Plymouth look like a tropical island!!

Ill remove the bit about West Ham being a shit hole cause its clearly a lovely place and i must have blinked and missed it.

Paul this was what you had written in a previous thread and it made about as much sense as (well I just do not know)

I’m not going to get involved in a public slaging match fella but at the end of the day you came across all wrong, you talked about West Ham making Plymouth look like a tropical island (Tosh)

I have already stated that I was disgusted by what I saw but there is more to this than meets the eye although ultimately it will be West Ham who suffer, Jack Collison showed exactly what football is about by putting in a first class performance and even tried to usher so called fans off the pitch and after all he has been through I have a lot of respect for the chap

It is well documented that im a big West Ham fan and anyone who knows me will tell you I love them with a passion, I know a lot about the history and also what these type of games are like and having been to Millwall I can assure you as a West Ham fan it is not a nice place certainly as when I used to go football hooliganism was at its highest level, I have seen things I would not wish others to see and im not kidding you when I say it is not a pretty sight

I had friends at that game last night and lots of them, I spoke to a few of them today and they were ashamed of what happened which proves that the mindless idiots that stormed the pitch are not proper fans and this should never have happened, I was also told that there was not just West Ham or millwall fans at the ground but other London clubs so called supporters were there and even Cardiff which is an indication of how high tense this game was going to be and i think that the clubs who are still active on the hooligan front are very well represented at most games although we do not hear to much about it on t.v

As a club and supporter we are bound to take some abuse over this and fair enough but direct it at the right people please folks, I do hope the club ban these idiots and maybe next time they should play the game behind closed doors because I guarantee that there will be trouble again although I hope they go elsewhere and do it

Tony Cottee summed it up on sky sports earlier when he said that these types of games should not be played at that time of night, Rush hour traffic pubs open all day it spells one thing and that is disaster im afraid

As somersetspur has said he knows because he has been to the lane for many years and is correct in what he says and one thing is for sure you will never stop this

I did try to get tickets for this game and if I had then Anita said she would have liked to have gone with me, I tell you now im just so glad we missed out I can tell you that much

Anyway all the best Paul and I wish you well fella

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Thanks for replying. I had no intention of aiming anything at you or the good West Ham fans, or Millwall for that matter.

I just think theres just no need for it these days. Whe you look at the pics, theres not many at the front of it wearing any club colours. And these people just dont do a thing when you challenge them. Theyd run a bloody mile. But in huge numbers they feel they can take on anyone.

Ive no problem with taking the mick out of away fans. All for it. But you do it from your stand, get behind your team and when its over, go home.

Millwall make you laugh really. Their home support is woeful. Their average attendance must be something like 8000 at best. Yet out they come when its a night to cause trouble.

Well, I hope they do something cause these fools need to be made to look like idiots in the cold light of day.

Time will tell hey.

All the best for the season,


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Speaking to a couple of friends today they told me that many of west ham's top faces of the last 20 years were out in force as were millwalls and had an almighty punch up at whitechapel at 3pm and again at surrey quays an hour later and can back up the fact that arsenal and chelsea faces were out looking to settle a few old scores and there was a mass brawl at stratford at about 12.30am involving nearly 600 .

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John, I was only saying this morning, I bet there were a few out who hadn't been at a game for 20 years coming out for the craic of it. They've probably not had a night like that for 20 years!

I'm not condoning it by any means, but I've been around a few people who like a bit of trouble and they do it for the fun! strange I know.

However, I do beleive that all of this has been blown out of proportion on a national scale. It was West Ham v Millwall, it was always going to happen. This doesn't mean that violence is back in the game but the FA and the government need to wake up and realise that football isn't quite the nice face that SKY TV paint it to be.

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However, I do beleive that all of this has been blown out of proportion on a national scale. It was West Ham v Millwall, it was always going to happen. This doesn't mean that violence is back in the game but the FA and the government need to wake up and realise that football isn't quite the nice face that SKY TV paint it to be.

St Darren, Spot on fella :thumbsup:

baldy, Yes your right mate but can you imagine if there still was (Bloody hell) :D

whuru, How are you my old mate

I heard prety much the same thing, Can you imagine all the top boys over the years meeting up like that :o

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was it not your signature that use to be a west ham badge bearing the ICF logo?


h--, That is a very good question fella

I did wonder how long it would be before someone asked me this

You are 100% correct and my current signature is also to do with the famous inter city firm

I do study football violence in my own time and it is something that I have found fascinating since I was young to be honest, Not because of the violence but what makes people do this kind of thing and why?

Coming from that part of the country and growing up with what goes on it became a part of my life

I do not agree with what they do and I am not a thug myself although I do have a few acquaintances as I suspect a few others on this board do (Do not expect me to talk about this though because I will not) but it is just one of those strange things that interests me that all

As to why I have the inter city firm badge or flag as a signature, Well to be honest I change my signature every whip and flip so you will have seen the Cockney rejects, The West ham logo, The inter city firms logos and various other things connected with West Ham because it is part of me and part of my life

All the best fella

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Very funny darren.............

I was offered a ticket for the game but the wife said no !!!!!!! and as Darren knows you don't say no to my wife :lol:

Cockerknee boy you are right most of the firm that was out on tuesday were the 40 - 50 year olds that maybe like myself only go to one or two games a season but as soon as the draw was made plans were made and plenty of calls were made between both firms who didn't even make it into the ground as with cctv they were battling up side streets whilst the game was going on......... some of you may say they are old enough to know better but as CB says its in your blood and it is like a drug no matter what when you have grown up around it and been involved in it you never get it out of your system. Even though i am west ham i went to school and grew up with 3 of Millwalls firm and knew of the rivalry from an early age.

As Darren quite rightly pointed out violence does still go on at games but hardly ever in the grounds as there are so many cameras and its different now to the 80's as back then the coppers would just throw you out the ground or stick you on a train back to london. You will never stamp it out because wherever you get a group of blokes from different parts of the country coming together pride takes over, just look at Newquay nearly every saturday night with groups from different parts of the country battling it out.

The people that you saw in the ground were people tanked up with alchol and trying to get at the millwall fans at the away end... but Millwall were only allowed 3,000 tickets which their season ticket holders snapped up and that meant they were mostly middle aged and old men with there wifes and maybe daughters and sons who go and watch millwall every week which makes it even more shocking.

The local police know of the rivalry between both sets of fans and there are regular fights in london as both sets of fans travel to different places and also tit for tat attacks down the old kent road and new cross and then back again at west ham and this goes on even when there is no football. One of the police divisional head officer and football inteligence officers contacted one old ICF member to enquire about numbers and was told it was going to be big, but they thought they had enough officers on duty when obvouisly they didn't.

Its sods law that they will get drawn in the FA Cup.....................

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Guest The Judge aka RED OR DEAD

WHURU - just look at Newquay nearly every saturday night with groups from different parts of the country battling it out.

Gotta say, I have only ever seen one incident involving groups of lads in Newquay and they were Cardiffs Soul Crew and some of the Brummie Zulus both on stag do's but was just mouthing rather than violence (I was in the Cardiff lot having lived there for 2 years). Anything else is just 3 or 4 pissed up twats getting lairy and if they want to smash a bottle of each other heads, then thats fine by me.

Can't compare the sporadic unplanned stuff that happens in Newquay with organised FV between small firms (mainly youth groups nowadays) via the web and mobiles. You only have to look on the web to find certain sites that glorify FV from the past and the links to current groups.

Newquay is still a safe place to go out and drink on a Saturday night but I wouldn't go to Southend !!!

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Judge i wasn't having a dig at newquay especially i was just trying to give a local comparisson and yes i've been to southend, blackpool, brighton ......... and it is much worse and i agree alot of it nowadays is youngsters who try to copy there predicesors.

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In my opinion I do not think the mainstream films such as Green Street or The Football Factory have glorified football violence at all

Yes some will look and think it looks like a bit of a laugh but I doubt anyone would take them to seriously, In all fairness your either brought up into it or your not as simple as that

There are plenty of films and documentaries out there though that would give you a real insight in to what went on, I know as I have watched many hours of them

What you saw on t.v this week were mindless idiots pretending to be hooligans and the media jumping on the bandwagon im affraid

I spoke to a friend of mine the other day who had recently met a member of a very well known firm and had a chat and a few photos taken with him, really nice chap and he even sent me a personally signed film poster which I thought to be a nice gesture and goes to show that even the hardest of ex hooligans does have a decent side but does also go to show that some have made a very decent living from there violent pasts (Crime does pay if your smart)

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