Barnstaple Town

[Mike Odgers]

According to the North Devon Journal

To combat growing financial concerns at Mill Road,Barnstaple Town are considering pulling out of the Western League and applying for membership to the South West Peninsula League.

With gates dipping below 100 and a £70,000 debt figure mentioned they find the Western League is more Bristol based and travel more costly

Barnstaple have been in the Western League for almost 60 years joining in1948.

Also read Barnstaple have put in a 7 day notice of approach to Falmouth Town for Aaron Harper-Penman who lives in the area.

[Paul]

Having seen pics of their ground it would be a nice ground to visit. Id like to see them in the SWP league. Bring it on!!

[Guest]

If a club with a town population nearing 40,000 can't afford a semi-pro club then something is wrong. It has been a problem recruiting players ever since they got rid of manager Jeff Evans who is Bristol based and recruited many from that area. His side kick Pete Buckingham took over and since then their trunstiles have been very busy with many players coming and going.

I read the North Devon Journal and they did cite travelling costs as one of the problems and recruiting players. So is it going to get any better when they travel into Cornwall?

This would be bad news for North Devon as Torrington also pulled out of the Western League.

If I remember didn't they buy their turnstiles from Bristol City. I know Bideford's lights came from Bristol City.

[Richard Rundle]

I know Bideford's lights came from Bristol City.

Not as far as I know. Bideford have had their huge pylons since the early 60s.

More related to the point of this post, losing Barnstaple as a member of the Western League (especially so soon after the demise of Torrington) would be a huge blow to Bideford. The annual derby probably brings in £5000 to the club which could not be replaced by another game against a team from somewhere in Somerset/Avon.

--

Richard

[Guest Postie Pidge]

Ilfracombe Town will be even more out on a limb!

[Dave Deacon]

Sorry this is a long piece - but just noticed it on the South West Peninsula League Forum......

CASH CRISIS COULD CAUSE A COLLAPSE

Geographically, it has long been argued that North Devon sides are out on a limb when it comes to a largely Bristol-based Western League.And travelling costs are only expected to rise even further in 2008 as petrol prices spiral out of control.

Barnstaple Town's general manager Doug Green fears the worst: "We put £4,000 in this year's budget for travelling, and it's not enough:

"We are having to raise that figure to £6,000 in next year's budget. Just to get the players from here to 21 games next season will cost a fortune. It is not just the first team either. You have also got the second team to manage and, at the moment, we don't pay for the ladies and U18 teams."

Barum do offer supporters the chance to travel with the team at a cost of £10 to help fund the trips, but the response is usually minimal. Increased travelling costs is also a reason that keeps Bideford from having a crack at Southern League football. The Robins have passed up several opportunities to apply for promotion through fears the extra mileage could cripple the club financially. Not only would the distance be further, but it would become difficult to attract a higher standard of player to a club facing mammoth away journeys . . . especially in midweek. After winning their last Western League title in 2005/06, boss Sean Joyce told the Journal:

"I would need to ask for the playing budget to be doubled to meet the needs of Southern League football. I would like to step up, but the last thing I would want is to leave the club with massive debts."

When discussing the spiralling expenditure costs at non league level, the issue of player expenses is always thrust into the spotlight. And the now infamous comments made by Welton Rovers manager Chris Mountford in November highlighted the feeling shared by many in non league football. He said:

"These days, when it comes to talking to possible new signings, you get players who aren't fit to play in the Western League asking about the size of money on offer before trying to establish what the players and staff are like and what the manager's ambitions are; it's all the wrong way round. All some of them are concerned about is prancing around the pubs and clubs, bragging about the money they earn from local football."

Many people also forget to consider the extra tax and National Insurance costs incurred by paying players. Mill Road general manager Doug Green said the playing budget given to boss Pete Buckingham is a nett figure - on top of their expenses, the club also have to pay between £3,000 and £4,000 per season to the Inland Revenue, which is almost as much as an entire season's travelling budget. Forget the playing budget . . . sometimes it costs well into three figures to bring a referee and two assistants to North Devon for a Premier game. I can remember attending a midweek league game at Vicarage Field during Torrington's ill-fated final campaign in the Western League. The struggling club were forced to call upon a referee from deep down in Cornwall, while one of his assistants also had to come from across the border. That all resulted in a referee expenses bill in excess of £150 - for a Tuesday night game in the wind and rain, watched by fewer than 40 fans. Assuming those 40 fans all paid a full fiver to get in at Vicarage Field, that would raise just £160 . . . barely enough to cover the officials' bills, let alone playing expenses and other running costs. And when you consider that 50% of the gate could realistically have paid a concession rate to get in, that figure of £160 is perhaps hugely optimistic. During Torrie's final season, their average attendance was a paltry 44 . . . yet amazingly, this wasn't the league's lowest. Four clubs were worse off in terms of attendance, but club chairman Graham Avery told the Journal the dwindling crowds were a key part of the decision to pull out. He said:

"At the end of last season we played a local derby against Bideford and, although it was a wet night, there couldn't have been 20 Torrington supporters watching the game, if they can't be bothered to turn up for a game like that, then why should we continue?"

Barnstaple Town have experienced a similar problem this year, and business manager Doug Green admitted the gate money raised at their last home game was not enough to cover a £200+ bill for the officials.

Let's look at the average crowds for our three Toolstation Premier clubs this season. Bideford top the list with an average gate of 202, followed by Ilfracombe Town with 130 and Barnstaple Town with 128. If everyone paid £5 to get in, matchday attendance would generate £1,010 at the Sports Ground, £650 at Marlborough Park and £640 at Mill Road. But the harsh reality is that these figures will be halved when you consider how many fans pay a concession rate. Barum general manager Doug Green told me gate income for a normal Premier game at Mill Road is usually around £300. Assuming you're paying a squad of 14 on a matchday, that leaves just £21 per player . . . and that's before even taking the officials' expenses into account, let alone other running costs. All this puts clubs under extreme pressure to land sponsorship deals to keep them ticking over. And with such huge increases in overheads and a general downturn in economy expected in 2008, it is feared many local companies could pull the plug on sports sponsorship as a means of cutting back on expenditure.

NO EASY ANSWER IN SURVIVAL STRUGGLE

So player costs are draining struggling clubs of much-needed financial resources . . . surely the obvious solution would be to slash, or even wipe out, playing expenses? This Utopian vision, though, has about as much chance of succeeding as a wooden shack in a hurricane. To truly make it work, every club would need to play ball and, let's face it, that isn't going to happen. Football, as a business, is a dog-eat-dog world and one side's loss is always another's gain . . . just look at Barnstaple Town in the Western League. Their decision to work within a strict budget has seen them unable to compete with bigger spenders in the South West Peninsula League - a level below the Toolstation Premier in football's non league pyramid. Aaron Harper-Penman and Lee Langmead both went south to Falmouth Town, while Steve Johns, Steve Ebdy and Jake Crush all joined the Witheridge revolution in Mid Devon. Some clubs have already tried abandoning players' expenses, but success stories are few and far between. Keynsham Town were one high-profile Western Premier side to axe their playing budget in a bid to balance the books in 2006. Amid rumours that players had not been paid for a number of weeks, the club's committee met and confirmed players would be paid what they were owed - but would not be paid in the future. At the time, manager Gary Silverthorne said:

"The committee were completely honest about it, maybe a little too honest, and now the players have to digest what's been said and go on from there. It's not the news we wanted, obviously, but at least we know where we stand. I can understand where they (the committee) are coming from. Expenses are going up and we don't have the finances to do things like improve the car park and try to bring in extra revenue."

However, the decision ended in a bitter tangle between committee and management, resulting in the departure of Silverthorne and assistant Glynn Smart, and the club being relegated. If a Western League club has no other option than to stop paying their players then, in reality, the route taken by Torrington and Exmouth Town seems the most likely one. Both sides folded their semi-pro sides, instead focussing on their reserve teams at amateur level. Following Exmouth's demise, non league football journalist Dave Potham wrote to the Exeter Express & Echo, and summed up the Bluebirds' position.

"Clubs must operate within their means," he wrote. "If they have a sugar daddy or a major benefactor. that's fine. But if that person/company leaves, then what is the contingency plan? In fact, is there one? Nobody wants to see Exmouth or any other club go to the wall, but the club must put its finances in order. If it means the manager cannot produce a team fit for the Western League, then so be it. Players can be accused of asking for over-the-odds expenses, but who doesn't? It then becomes a problem for the manager who says he can't manage without a large budget. Exmouth are doing the right thing. If they pull out of the Western League, then they pull out."

To avoid this, is there any way to improve crowds? After all, in past decades, Western League games used to draw huge gates. These days, gates at Barnstaple Town, Bideford and Ilfracombe Town tend to hover between 80 and 200 which, let's face it, isn't enough to subsidise a large playing budget. The crowds are still potentially there . . . Boxing Day and Good Friday derbies always attract between 700 and 1,000 fans, so why can't regular games? Perhaps the answer would be to change kick off times in the Western League, or even have games played on a Sunday. Currently, Premier games kick off at 3pm on a Saturday - okay, it's the traditional British time for football, but is it costing semi-pro clubs crucial gate revenue? After all, the North Devon League play at the same time on a Saturday. That's 57 teams, each with a playing squad plus supporters. Assuming that total is 30 per team, that's a potential 1,710 football fans who are being denied a chance to watch their local Western League sides. Another way to trim some extra expenditure would be to look at the issue of referees' expenses. Instead of hauling officials up to North Devon from Cornwall, Bristol and sometimes further afield, why not lower the level of refereeing grade needed to take charge of a game? It would allow more locally-based referees to take charge of games, thus reducing mileage expenses as well as giving up-and-coming referees more experience. Of course, having a lesser qualified referee in charge of a Toolstation Premier game may worry a fair few within the game, but using a higher standard of referee comes at a price. These suggestions, though, may save a few pennies here and there, but would it just paper over the cracks? Barnstaple Town general manager Doug Green believes the Western League needs to be restructured to help clubs survive by reducing travelling costs.

"I don't think clubs of our standard can afford to be playing most weeks up at Bristol and beyond," he said. "Especially not with the gates we are getting."

Club accounts show Barum still owe the best part of £70,000 and Mr Green said the club need to raise at least £40,000 per year through sponsorship to cover the balance of running costs.

"This comes in various guises," he added. "A large part comes from sponsor boards and programme adverts, and a pledge scheme that brings in a substantial sum."

All Western League clubs are aware, though, that 2008 could bring some rocky times, given the current financial climate. Companies are experiencing a huge increase in transport costs due to fuel rises, and those firms wanting to trim some money from their own expenditure list will most likely axe local sponsorship. Mr Green added:

"2008 is going to be a tough year and we are going to have to cut our cloth accordingly. We will not allow the club to live beyond its means."

[Guest]

What an excellent in depth article. It's difficult not to agree with its contents. Sometimes I wonder if we are watching to much wall-to-wall football on TV where every decision, tackle, goal, incident is analysed over and over again. We see it once on a Saturday afternoon and discussions continue long after the game has finished.

There are numerous other reasons why we do not watch local games, for instance if there is poor weather we tend to stay at home and watch sports on TV. The reasons have been discussed many times and the article tried to answer most of them, but there is another angle to the subject.

Anyone who was at the Liskeard v Bodmin Cornwall Senior Cup tie yesterday would have seen a full blooded match with plenty of action and incident to discuss. Yet the impression I got was the incessant and continuous very loud foul language emanating from the dug out areas. It must have been loud as I was on the other side of the pitch. There were quite a few people tucked away under cover and quite a few fans down the left hand side of the pitch braving the elements and from the comments I heard the spectators were disgusted with it.

It is easy to blame the referee for a very pernickety performance, gestures and arm waving for nothing more than minor fouls or failing to play advantage, but his biggest failing (and I left at half time) was his total acceptance of the foul language being spewed out at every decision. I have no idea which dug out it came from but it was the worst I have heard for a long time. It’s not about the bad language, everyone let’s rip at times but the non-stop nature of it.

How often do year hear the dug outs shouting long after an incident has passed Ref! Ref! that was etc, etc. Or some terrific tackles being in there eyes dangerous but they applaud their own players for doing exactly the same thing. Do we really want to hear that? One of the ways to solve this problem is for referees to take action. Players can be red carded for swearing at a referee but for some reason the men in the middle tend to take no action against the insults from managers and assistants. And frankly I have no idea why. The latest tendency seems to be referee pointing out to everyone present that other offences have been made by the player all over the park so that is why he is cautioned. Do they think we are all thick? It’s the same when a couple of players get involved in a tussle. Instead of the referee doing a Roger Milford by running beside players to tell them to pack it in we now see the referee giving his school teacher lecture so that he becomes the focus of the game and infuriates not only the players but spectators alike. But you also have the problem of players racing 50 yards to get involved in a bit of skermish. Why? Could it be because that is the way life is today when everyone piles in on a Saturday night incident because its the this is my my mate type of response. Players don't go in to stop an incident, they want to put in their own bit of afters. Could this also be a small reason.

How often do we go to a match which may be blood and thunder but nobody can remember the referee. So he must have used his commonsense. Unfortunately that type of referee has almost long gone because he will never get anywhere due to the dictates from above. This is could be another argument why people tend not to support local football.

This has been discussed many times but the future of clubs is in their own hands. Truro City raves about winning against clubs such as Hallen who don't pay their players anything other than genuine expenses. Good luck to Truro and I think we would all agree the further they go up the pyramid the better it is for Cornish football. Many will agree and many won’t. Cornwall football in a way has been lucky over the years as much of Plymouth Argyle’s following comes from the Duchy. But for Truro to attract a gate of over 1,000 and with Argyle having more than 14,000 on the same day shows there is still interest in watching the game. Clubs will argue that Truro may be taking fans from their games but Argyle have been doing that for years.

I still feel there is a deep rooted problem in the game at the lower level and that is the outrageous monies being paid out to players. Lets be frank I wouldn’t blame any player for taking what he can get, but managers seem to think that that they cannot produce a team without a massive budget. All managers are ambitious but clubs for whatever reason seem to fall over themselves to provide this money. What if the teams wage bill and lets be honest about it, it is wages disguised as anything you want – is cut. Gate money in most cases does not cover the players and managers wages (expenses). And yes some managers do it for free. The club has to make sure it produces enough income from the gate added to weekly bar profits, fund raising and sponsorship etc. Unless someone like a Heaney comes in with a massive injection of cash then clubs will have no alternative but to operate within their means. As the article say’s official’s expenses also can be incredibly high. I don’t know how it works in the SWPL but the Western League used to manage their own officials appointments. I may be wrong but the FA had decided otherwise so officials come from far and wide to control Western League games (I think I'm roght) and even the SWPL has its detractors. I always thought a referee was a referee so where he/she came from should be irrelevant. The problem starts at the top at the FA and comes all the way down to local football because everyone seems scared of bias.

Another problem has been the rise of the mercenary footballer who will change clubs at the drop of a hat or for an extra fiver. What has happened to local players playing for local teams? This seems to be a long gone exercise as a player can virtually name his price and get it. It’s a bit like the global market economy where everything has its price. Even fans will not turn up because their clubs aren’t winning anything and complain bitterly when the club refuses to pay out for success that cannot be financially viable. According to many fans the team is rubbish etc, etc. What happened to the days when people went along to their local teams to watch a game of football? I notice some good teams have reserve sides yet would rather pay out money to bring in another player for the first team than to develop the talent they may already have under their very noses. This local talent has parents and friends who would go to a match just to see that player play and possibly put money behind the bar etc.

I have no idea how to solve the situation but I think all angles have been covered. Unfortunately it will not get any better unless commonsense prevails. But since when has commonsense and football been described in the same sentence.

[Graham Martin]

If I had known all this was on here I would not have had to buy the Sunday papers.

Good comments, analysis and articles lads.

[Guest tom@white tigers]

Barnstaple Town are slipping down the table after losses to Welton Rovers, Radstock Town, Bideford and Devizes Town since 15 December 2007. There only win since then has been agaisnt Street. Attendances are going down from 235 on 14 August 2007 for the Ilfracombe Town match to 70 in the Devizes Town match.

[Guest Sport Lover]

Maybe football should take a leaf out of hockey as an example.

Truro Hockey club.

Playing at an equivalent level to football of Conference or maybe Conference South.

Annual travelling Budget - 0

Players expenses - 0

Places they travel to for away matches.

Exeter (closest away game)

Torbay

Swindon

Bristol (3 times to different teams)

Yeovil

Bath

Weston Super Mare

Devizes

Cardiff

So why are clubs going into debt to 'pay' players when they cannot afford it? No one in their right mind would run a business and build up 70,000 of debt and no way of paying it.

[local_boy]

Maybe football should take a leaf out of hockey as an example.

Truro Hockey club.

Playing at an equivalent level to football of Conference or maybe Conference South.

Annual travelling Budget - 0

Players expenses - 0

Places they travel to for away matches.

Exeter (closest away game)

Torbay

Swindon

Bristol (3 times to different teams)

Yeovil

Bath

Weston Super Mare

Devizes

Cardiff

So why are clubs going into debt to 'pay' players when they cannot afford it? No one in their right mind would run a business and build up 70,000 of debt and no way of paying it.

so how are they affording to travel this much??

[Guest Sport Lover]

The players dig deep into their own pockets and play at that level for the love and the challenge. If they get promoted and they are currently 4th, there is no thought about refusing promotion depsite travelling being worse if they do.

[Richard Rundle]

Barnstaple Town are slipping down the table after losses to Welton Rovers, Radstock Town, Bideford and Devizes Town since 15 December 2007. There only win since then has been agaisnt Street. Attendances are going down from 235 on 14 August 2007 for the Ilfracombe Town match to 70 in the Devizes Town match.

The Ilfracombe Town match is a special case though. It's a local derby (11 miles) with the two clubs meeting for the first time in the league for 13 years.

--

Richard

[Guest]

If you take away the local derby gate aganst Ilfracombe and the big gate against Truro then they are averaging 101 per game.

[Gareth]

Hockey?? How in god's name did we get talking about hockey. When I use to go to Triple Jump meets I had to pay to get there myself too???!!!!

[Guest Ian]

I dont know why people moan about the amount of expences players get, thats personal to the player and the club, and if a club is in debt because of expenses to players, then its the management of the club thats needs to be in question. If I was asked how much I earn a week, you would be told to mind your own business, and if I was behind with my mortgage again it would be my fault and no one else. Most clubs have been around for a good few years, and they know what money usually comes in each year through the gate and with sponsorship, and when they intend to go up the leagues they know how much it will cost to join the league, and how much travelling is involved. If a committe cannot work that out they should give up, or stay in a league where they can afford to be in. I have a son who plays in Div1 west and I have never asked how much he gets, I pay my Money to get in to see a game of football, nothing else, and would be happy to pay to £5 to see the game, what we pay at the moment is very low in this day and age.

This may seem a bit blunt, but its how I see it, and nothing would make me change my mind.

( they could make it a rule that if a player moves to another club in the league, that the new club pays the old club a sum of money for the transfer )

:glare:

[Guest Sport Lover]

We're not really talking about hockey we are talking about money.

One of the reasons most clubs have given in the past for refusing promotion or dropping down a league as in the topic of this thread, is money. Surely if less money was spent on players 'expenses' then a lot of this problem would not exist.

[Guest Sport Lover]

Not many thoughts form other forum users on players expenses and football clubs running into debt.

Maybe I have hit a raw nerve?

[skippy]

Devon St Lukes Bowl Result

Plymouth Parkway 0 - Barnstaple Town 2