England 3 Italy 1

[Dave Deacon]

A good win for England and qualification for another tournament finals.

I’m always surprised why Gareth Southgate comes in for such criticism!

[St Darren]

53 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

A good win for England and qualification for another tournament finals.

I’m always surprised why Gareth Southgate comes in for such criticism!

Because he’s failed on the big stage. 
Because he has no balls in leaving players out. 
Because his in game management is poor. 

[Dave Deacon]

He never gets any praise though for what he’s achieved. Euros final, qualification for other finals. One of the best records of an England manager!

I think unfortunately now it’s got to the stage that even if he won something he wouldn't get the credit!

[St Darren]

1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said:

He never gets any praise though for what he’s achieved. Euros final, qualification for other finals. One of the best records of an England manager!

I think unfortunately now it’s got to the stage that even if he won something he wouldn't get the credit!

Would you say it’s Par for what is expected though?

In the finals the only team England have beaten of any note is Germany. The rest of the games you’d have expected England to win. 
 

[Brianmooreshead]

You're absolutely right Dave. The haters ( and it would seem Daren is one ) will never be happy. In the last five years we've appeared in a Euro Final, a W/C Semi Final and a W/C quarter final. Yes that is  about par with what we SHOULD be achieving, but that's a lot more than can be said for  a few of his predecessors.

  You can QUESTION his in game management but you don't actually KNOW if changing anything would have brought about a different result. It wasn't too bad last night.

If not winning a trophy on the " big stage " is what you are going to measure him by then apart from three individuals all the other are failures too !

I wasn't particularly happy with McGuire or Phillips starting last night. BUT. They won so surely his selections are justified - If they had lost then he'd have to face the flak - But they didn't.

The England Manager can never please everyone but I can't think of a better replacement - Can you ?

[St Darren]

36 minutes ago, Brianmooreshead said:

You're absolutely right Dave. The haters ( and it would seem Daren is one ) will never be happy. In the last five years we've appeared in a Euro Final, a W/C Semi Final and a W/C quarter final. Yes that is  about par with what we SHOULD be achieving, but that's a lot more than can be said for  a few of his predecessors.

  You can QUESTION his in game management but you don't actually KNOW if changing anything would have brought about a different result. It wasn't too bad last night.

If not winning a trophy on the " big stage " is what you are going to measure him by then apart from three individuals all the other are failures too !

I wasn't particularly happy with McGuire or Phillips starting last night. BUT. They won so surely his selections are justified - If they had lost then he'd have to face the flak - But they didn't.

The England Manager can never please everyone but I can't think of a better replacement - Can you ?

I don’t hate him. How could you hate him he seems like a really nice genuine fella.  What job is he getting after the England job though?  He’s not someone who’s willing to take a risk. In the final of the last Euros England went 1 up and then sat back Southgate didn’t have a clue what to do. There’s no plan B at all. 

what does it tell other potential England players if the likes of Maguire, Phillips are getting in when they’re not playing for their clubs?  Ward Prowse has been excellent for West Ham this evening but he’s not there. 
 

there seems to have been an ongoing issue with proper footballers playing for England. Gazza had 57 caps, Matt LeTissier 8 caps, Glen Hoddle 53.  Yet Phil Neville gained 59.  Ok, playing indifferent eras but other countries managers would have built teams around those players and played great football. 
 

England currently have one of the greatest footballers in the world playing for them in Jude Bellingham they need to capatilise on that strength. They also have Alexander-Arnold who is probably seckbx to Bellingham in terms of ability but will Southgate find a way to play them both, or will he be too cautious?
 

I really couldn’t give a monkeys if England win or lose, mainly due to the idiotic fans that follow them!

[Brianmooreshead]

If the side keeps winning whilst he's picking Phillips, McGuire etc then people will overlook it - It's results that count after all. It's when they play and we LOSE that he'll get stick - That's the choice he made. 

Certainly agree with you about " flair " players not getting a crack of the whip, you can add Tony Currie, Rodney Marsh and Alan Hudson to that list. I guess it's partly because the England managers job comes under such scrutiny perhaps they become risk averse, although I think that is Southgates  default mode anyway.

I certainly do want England to do well but again I agree about ( some of ) our supporters - Coke addled cretins some of them 

[We Two]

The point that is regularly missed when a judgement is made about a particular team or its manager, is that players with individual abilities are suggested to be a better option regardless of the opposition being played .
A manager worth his salt in the professional game will always choose players that are capable of playing as a team member and not someone with skills that have skills thatdon't fit in with his team or tactics.
Bellingham and Alexander-Arnold are outstanding players but Souhgate doesn't see them as players that would be able to play together and benefit the like of Kane who at present is popping in the goals for fun.
Playing against different teams introduces different tactics and different players, Southgate proved his worth with the under 21s when they were in his charge.
Qualifying for the European Championship with two games yet to play isn't too bad a record, ask Rob Page !

[St Darren]

22 minutes ago, We Two said:

The point that is regularly missed when a judgement is made about a particular team or its manager, is that players with individual abilities are suggested to be a better option regardless of the opposition being played .
A manager worth his salt in the professional game will always choose players that are capable of playing as a team member and not someone with skills that have skills thatdon't fit in with his team or tactics.
Bellingham and Alexander-Arnold are outstanding players but Souhgate doesn't see them as players that would be able to play together and benefit the like of Kane who at present is popping in the goals for fun.
Playing against different teams introduces different tactics and different players, Southgate proved his worth with the under 21s when they were in his charge.
Qualifying for the European Championship with two games yet to play isn't too bad a record, ask Rob Page !

Comparing England and Wales is laughable really.  See the pool of players that Southgate has to choose from.  
 In years gone by international football was the pinnacle of anyone’s career. Now I’m not so sure it is.  

[We Two]

35 minutes ago, St Darren said:

In years gone by international football was the pinnacle of anyone’s career. Now I’m not so sure it is.  

You'd have a more informed opinion if you were to ask people involved with playing in the professional game, I don't know of any pro who wouldn't consider it an honour and achievement to play for their respective countries.

[St Darren]

1 hour ago, We Two said:

You'd have a more informed opinion if you were to ask people involved with playing in the professional game, I don't know of any pro who wouldn't consider it an honour and achievement to play for their respective countries.

Didn’t say it wasn’t an honour.  I said about it being the Pinnacle. 
 

Would a player rather win the Champions League or have an England Cap?