John Thomas Allcock Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 After an early pitch inspection and with anticipated high winds and torrential rain from 6pm onwards, the referee has sensibly postponed tonight's game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triggs60 Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 Not looking too good this evening. Imagine it could be the same for the Western League games at Helston and Falmouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavi Fan Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 50 minutes ago, John Thomas Allcock said: After an early pitch inspection and with anticipated high winds and torrential rain from 6pm onwards, the referee has sensibly postponed tonight's game. See this was what I was trying to ask regarding refs postponing based on forecasts? Even IF the pitch was playable at 1pm during the inspection, the forecast looks awful from 6pm onwards and by that stage everyone would’ve travelled. Glad an early call was made anyway 👍 Ian Pethick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Pethick Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 Guess all eyes will be on the Bolitho Park pitch now with Parkway v Didcot scheduled for tomorrow night, and Truro v Eastbourne due to be played on Saturday. Heavy rain forecast in the Plymouth area for overnight tonight, and then for late afternoon into the evening on Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devonian Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 Hard to see either game being possible if not able to play last weekend. Ian Pethick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thomas Allcock Posted February 6 Author Report Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, Tavi Fan said: See this was what I was trying to ask regarding refs postponing based on forecasts? Even IF the pitch was playable at 1pm during the inspection, the forecast looks awful from 6pm onwards and by that stage everyone would’ve travelled. Glad an early call was made anyway 👍 NYD the ref wouldn't perform an early inspection and insisted he would inspect pitch after his 13.00 hrs arrival which he did, and pronounced playable. However between 13.00 and 14.40 the weather seriously deteriorated and at 14.40 ref called match off. I'm afraid we are at the mercy of referees and nature ....neither of which we can control. Glad you approve of tonight's decision, wind is now really whipping through, rain still to hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckland Jim Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 3 hours ago, Ian Pethick said: Guess all eyes will be on the Bolitho Park pitch now with Parkway v Didcot scheduled for tomorrow night, and Truro v Eastbourne due to be played on Saturday. Heavy rain forecast in the Plymouth area for overnight tonight, and then for late afternoon into the evening on Thursday. Postponed already according to their Twitter/X account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, John Thomas Allcock said: NYD the ref wouldn't perform an early inspection and insisted he would inspect pitch after his 13.00 hrs arrival which he did, and pronounced playable. However between 13.00 and 14.40 the weather seriously deteriorated and at 14.40 ref called match off. I'm afraid we are at the mercy of referees and nature ....neither of which we can control. That is not how it works. The referee cannot refuse an inspection. The league rules state the referee must attend earlier than the prescribed 90 minutes if requested to do so by the home club. Before the scheduled arrival time the referee is guided by and will act upon the information provided by the home club and will be consulted on any final decision. If it isn't practical for the referee to attend i.e. early morning (remember referee could be coming from over a 100 miles away) for a 3PM it is the responsibility of the home club to arrange a more local referee to inspect and consult with the match day referee. As I understand it, an early inspection, by a referee, was not requested. I am sure one of the Mousehole's volunteer workforce on here can confirm if they requested one? What the referee cannot do is refuse an inspection to take place. And if that were true then I expect Mousehole will have reported them to the FA and the league for not following the correct protocols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thomas Allcock Posted February 6 Author Report Share Posted February 6 23 minutes ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said: That is not how it works. The referee cannot refuse an inspection. The league rules state the referee must attend earlier than the prescribed 90 minutes if requested to do so by the home club. Before the scheduled arrival time the referee is guided by and will act upon the information provided by the home club and will be consulted on any final decision. If it isn't practical for the referee to attend i.e. early morning (remember referee could be coming from over a 100 miles away) for a 3PM it is the responsibility of the home club to arrange a more local referee to inspect and consult with the match day referee. As I understand it, an early inspection, by a referee, was not requested. I am sure one of the Mousehole's volunteer workforce on here can confirm if they requested one? What the referee cannot do is refuse an inspection to take place. And if that were true then I expect Mousehole will have reported them to the FA and the league for not following the correct protocols. If the pitch was playable at just after 13.00 it would have been playable anytime that morning before that, so I believe ref said don't do anything until I arrive ....the rest is well documented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Hocking Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 26 minutes ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said: That is not how it works. The referee cannot refuse an inspection. The league rules state the referee must attend earlier than the prescribed 90 minutes if requested to do so by the home club. Before the scheduled arrival time the referee is guided by and will act upon the information provided by the home club and will be consulted on any final decision. If it isn't practical for the referee to attend i.e. early morning (remember referee could be coming from over a 100 miles away) for a 3PM it is the responsibility of the home club to arrange a more local referee to inspect and consult with the match day referee. As I understand it, an early inspection, by a referee, was not requested. I am sure one of the Mousehole's volunteer workforce on here can confirm if they requested one? What the referee cannot do is refuse an inspection to take place. And if that were true then I expect Mousehole will have reported them to the FA and the league for not following the correct protocols. Despite the social media furore at the time of the New Year’s Day postponement Mousehole elected not to comment publicly on the decision process and timeline and I’m not going to change that now. However, I can confirm absolutely that the referee acted not just properly but also helpfully and constructively at all times - the Club has nothing but praise for him and the role he played in trying circumstances. TheOpinionoftheReferee and Billy Jacka 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 20 minutes ago, John Thomas Allcock said: If the pitch was playable at just after 13.00 it would have been playable anytime that morning before that, so I believe ref said don't do anything until I arrive ....the rest is well documented. That's very different to the referee refusing to inspect. The referee can only contribute to the decision making processes on the information available. Here is the FA guidance the club's and referees have to follow and it might help you understand the process that would have been followed. :The final paragraphs are probably the most pertinent. RECOMMENDED PROCEDURE FOR THE GUIDANCE OF CLUBS and REFEREES IN DETERMINING THE SUITABILITY OF GROUNDS IN ADVERSE WEATHER CONDITIONS When the regional weather conditions are known to be extreme e.g. prolonged severe frost or heavy snow then the game can be postponed at the discretion of the home club after consultation with the Secretary. Under such circumstances, the earliest the decision can be made is the day prior to the scheduled date of the game whilst the latest is one hour prior to the time the visiting team are scheduled to commence their journey. In all other circumstances a referee should be called in to make a decision in the following order of availability - 1) the match referee (subject to time and travelling distance) 2) another more local referee who must not be connected with either club. Prior to reaching his decision the referee who is making the inspection should consider the following:- 1. Consultation on the telephone with the match referee prior to the inspection 2. Consultation on the telephone with the match referee after the inspection to mutually agree on a decision prior to notifying the home club. 3. The existing condition of the playing surface in conjunction with the prevailing weather conditions as previously confirmed with the local weather authority. 4. The views of the home club groundsman in terms of local knowledge and draining capabilities. 5. The manpower available to the home club to carry out any necessary work to make the ground playable. 6. The time the visiting club are due to commence their journey. 7. Whether or not the ground is dangerous, e.g. frost is dangerous but water isn't. 8. Whether or not conditions are, or could turn farcical, e.g. excessive water on the pitch combined with a forecast of continued rain. 9. In the event of fog check with the local weather authority re possible clearance, also bearing in mind the visitors travel arrangements if the fog is known to be widespread. If a decision is still in the balance after considering the above, then also consider:- a. The time, distance and cost of the visiting teams travel. If, after consultation with the match referee, the ground has been declared fit and the clubs instructed to travel, then only in exceptional circumstances should the match referee reverse this decision. If an early inspection has not been carried out and the match referee arrives at the ground to find the playing conditions in doubt due to an unexpected deterioration in the weather, he should first consider all of the above points before committing himself to a decision e.g. whether or not either or both of the teams wish to play. Ref watch and John Thomas Allcock 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thomas Allcock Posted February 6 Author Report Share Posted February 6 Thank You TheOpinionoftheReferee very enlightening 😁👍 JonColenzo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavi Fan Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said: That is not how it works. The referee cannot refuse an inspection. The league rules state the referee must attend earlier than the prescribed 90 minutes if requested to do so by the home club. Before the scheduled arrival time the referee is guided by and will act upon the information provided by the home club and will be consulted on any final decision. If it isn't practical for the referee to attend i.e. early morning (remember referee could be coming from over a 100 miles away) for a 3PM it is the responsibility of the home club to arrange a more local referee to inspect and consult with the match day referee. As I understand it, an early inspection, by a referee, was not requested. I am sure one of the Mousehole's volunteer workforce on here can confirm if they requested one? What the referee cannot do is refuse an inspection to take place. And if that were true then I expect Mousehole will have reported them to the FA and the league for not following the correct protocols. From what I heard I don’t think it was suggested that a pitch inspection took place. Might be wrong but having spoken to the referee myself afterwards (at a later date) I didn’t think a pitch inspection took place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrummyBarry Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 Did the ref get asked to do one? If he was told that there was no need to do one he wouldn't have done one 🤷♂️ if Mousehole asked for one I'm sure one would have been done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 Here’s an updated version:- Recommended Guidance of Clubs and Referees in determining the suitability of grounds in adverse weather conditions Each Club must take every precaution to ensure that its ground is in a fit playing condition. When the regional weather conditions are known to be extreme (e.g. prolonged severe frost, clear water logging or heavy snow) then the game can be postponed at the discretion of the League following consultation with the Fixtures Secretary’s; this is not an issue for the match day Referee. If agreement is given to an early postponement under such circumstances, there will be no requirement for a pitch inspection. In all other circumstances and subject to the time and travelling distance, the match Referee should be called in to make a decision. In the event of the match Referee being unable to carry out the inspection, the Home Club must select an alternative Referee listed within the approved list of match officials. Prior to reaching a decision the Referee who is making the inspection must: • Consult with the match Referee prior to the inspection • Consult with the match Referee during/after the inspection to mutually agree on a decision prior to notifying the Home Club Secretary or Club Chairman and the appropriate League Secretary (or Chairman if the Secretary is not available). Prior to reaching a decision the Referee who is making the inspection should consider the following: • Whether or not the ground (playing area) is dangerous (e.g. ice / frost) • Whether or not that the spectator standing areas are dangerous (e.g. ice / frost) • Whether or not conditions are or could turn farcical. • The views of the Home Club Groundsman in terms of local knowledge and draining capabilities in the event of standing water. • The existing condition of the playing surface in conjunction with the prevailing weather conditions as previously confirmed with the local weather authority • Be seen to be active! Adhere to deadlines, keep all informed; especially the away Team Manager if he is on route and can be contactable (home club will have the Secretary’s mobile number). If they are within a reasonable time/distance from the ground it is only courtesy that you await their arrival • Inspect thoroughly! A professional approach must be adopted when carrying out an inspection. It is not acceptable just to take a cursory look at the field of play in normal dress (i.e. Suit / Blazer etc.). Sports kit should be worn, along with appropriate footwear (i.e. football boots). All areas of the pitch should be inspected. A ball should be used to determine whether the surface is playable (for movement and bounce), if appropriate, playing staff may be able to assist you in this practical session. • Fog creates its’ own problems. Use perspectives from ground level and the back of a stand – check forecast (remember that there is a responsibility to paying spectators) • When dealing with such elements as frost or ice – remember that the highest temperature of the day is usually around mid-day. Get a forecast if necessary of the projected temperature for the time when the match is due to conclude • The manpower available to the Home Club to carry out any necessary work to make the ground playable • The time the visiting Club are due to commence their journey • Liaise with Managers BUT the decision as to whether the match is played is yours If after consultation with the match Referee, the ground is declared fit and the away Clubs instructed to travel, then only in exceptional circumstances should the match Referee reverse the decision. If an early inspection has not been carried out and the match Referee arrives at the ground to find the playing conditions in doubt due to unexpected deterioration in the weather, he should first consider as many of the above points before committing himself to a decision. In the event of a pitch inspection being carried out by a Referee other than the match Referee, a fee of half the Referee’s fee may be offered by the Home Club. If the appointed Match Officials have reported to the ground they are entitled to half their match fee if the match is not played. If the game is postponed following the inspection, either by the match Referee or another Referee, the following procedure should be followed:- • The home club should advise the away team and all the appointed match officials and the following league officers – (Fixture Secretary & Referee Secretary). • The appointed match referee should advise any appointed match observer. • The match official who made the decision to postpone must complete a match postponement notification form via the appropriate means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Hocking Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Is anyone from the refereeing community able to explain how they’re taught and told to interpret the term “prevailing weather conditions” in these guidelines? I’ve only got O-level geography from 50yrs ago to fall back on but if memory serves prevailing weather means “weather typical for the area”, not “weather forecast”, which would be consistent with what we’re frequently told - that games are not supposed to be postponed because of the specific weather forecast at the time of the inspection. JonColenzo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonColenzo Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Good question Gary, i think we would all like to understand this a bit better, I’m led to believe at St Piran and below if a pitch is playable when ref inspects then the game goes ahead with no thought to how much damage and how many games postponed will occur if that one game is played? Gary Hocking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 4 hours ago, Gary Hocking said: Is anyone from the refereeing community able to explain how they’re taught and told to interpret the term “prevailing weather conditions” in these guidelines? I’ve only got O-level geography from 50yrs ago to fall back on but if memory serves prevailing weather means “weather typical for the area”, not “weather forecast”, which would be consistent with what we’re frequently told - that games are not supposed to be postponed because of the specific weather forecast at the time of the inspection. Truth be told we aren't taught a great deal other than you can only really make a decision based on the pitch as you find it. To answer @JonColenzo I understand what you are saying but we'd never play any football if we were in the realms of worrying about pitch damage, especially given the Cornish "prevailing weather conditions." Gary Hocking and JonColenzo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Where does "common sense" come into the process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footy follower Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said: Truth be told we aren't taught a great deal other than you can only really make a decision based on the pitch as you find it. To answer @JonColenzo I understand what you are saying but we'd never play any football if we were in the realms of worrying about pitch damage, especially given the Cornish "prevailing weather conditions." That last bit is blatantly not true. If a ref feels the game will complete the 90 mins in a safe and playable manner he/she is going to play it. Of course playing it is going to cause the pitch damage......and I've never seen a ref worried about that (and nor should he/she be).......is the pitch fit and safe to play on...and complete the game....that is there only question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpinionoftheReferee Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 12 minutes ago, Footy follower said: That last bit is blatantly not true. If a ref feels the game will complete the 90 mins in a safe and playable manner he/she is going to play it. Of course playing it is going to cause the pitch damage......and I've never seen a ref worried about that (and nor should he/she be).......is the pitch fit and safe to play on...and complete the game....that is there only question Read my post again. I think you might find you have your wires crossed. Footy follower 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footy follower Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said: Read my post again. I think you might find you have your wires crossed. Apologies my friend...the wording has two meanings and I got the wrong one.so...i whole heartedly agree with you 🤣🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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