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What a shame he had to be accused in the first place


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I'm glad to confirm that Alan Carey has had the accusation of assault against him dropped at a CCFA Disciplinary meeting this evening. Pity he had to go through that agony in the first place if you ask me!

However, he has been given a five game touchline ban and fined £100 for insulting and abusive language towards a match official, bringing the game into disrepute.

I attended the meeting as a witness and have to say the whole course of events was an eye-opener! :ninja:

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2 points to take from this 1 good and 1 bad.

1st good, its great that alan got let off for a lenient penalty in what apparantely happened. he is one of the best swpl managers.

2nd bad, why did alan say those things in the first place. some managers say things out of the heat of the moment come the end of the game whether in the lead or losing, but as professional as you can be was there any reason to say the things that only alan knows he said in the first place. had he not then surely there would be no dicsussion of this?

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Pity he had to go through that agony in the first place if you ask me!

Are you being serious Dave! Sympathy for Alan, but none for the match officials who were, once again, on the receiving end of his insulting and abusive language. :SM_carton: In view of his history I think a £100 fine and a 5 match ban was very light.

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Are you being serious Dave! Sympathy for Alan,

The language I'm not condoning, although to be fair sometimes we all get frustrated. In my opinion, and Alan knows this as I said it to him, there is no way he should have evaded being punished for that action.

No, my gripe on this post is on two sides : firstly, regarding the fact that someone has been accused of assault, immediately banned because of that, although there was never really a case to answer.

And secondly, the way things went at the meeting last night which I shouldn't really disclose apart from to say any respect I had for officials was damaged after what I heard! :ninja:

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" And secondly, the way things went at the meeting last night which I shouldn't really disclose apart from to say any respect I had for officials was damaged after what I heard!"

Dave, like you I'm all for the respect campaign , we need refs so we can all play, but I was taken aback the other week when watching a mining one game, a player asked the ref why he'd made a decision to give a free kick, no swearing no abuse, the ref turned around and said, " I'm not interested in your opinion, now shut your face !", all the while tapping his top pocket suggesting the player had spoken out of turn and was in danger of a caution. What kind of respect are referees expecting to get with comments like that ?

:wacko:

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Toffeeman, if thats all a player had to put up with from a refree then he got away lightly, the abuse i have to take at most games these days is not printable and it`s not just players, sadly it would seem almost normal that club officials have taken to joining in with the abuse something which did not happen a few years back. Also with the internet availability this forum becomes a bash referee`s column of which i speak from experience. So is it no suprise that just maybe a referee will on occasions lose his cool and make comments which in hindsight were not the best way of handling a player.

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my gripe on this post is on two sides : firstly, regarding the fact that someone has been accused of assault, immediately banned because of that, although there was never really a case to answer.

Perhaps in the circumstances the immediate ban was unwarranted, as was the abuse dished out from the touchline!

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"Toffeeman, if thats all a player had to put up with from a refree then he got away lightly, the abuse i have to take at most games these days is not printable and it`s not just players, sadly it would seem almost normal that club officials have taken to joining in with the abuse something which did not happen a few years back. Also with the internet availability this forum becomes a bash referee`s column of which i speak from experience. So is it no suprise that just maybe a referee will on occasions lose his cool and make comments which in hindsight were not the best way of handling a player".

Mr Manning, fair comment, refs have a hard job at the best of times and I'm certainly not on here to have a go at them,I've had the pleasure of refereeing kids games and schools matches through my profession, the parents though, don't get me started on that one! I was just very suprised that players and clubs are doing thier best , on most ocassions, to support the respect campaign but the comments made in this case dont help the players perceptions of match officials, sadly though that seems to be the way the game is going.

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Toffeeman, it`s how I started my refereeing, getting involved when i had stopped playing and my son started, but in all honesty i will not referee youth football now for the same reasons as you have experienced. As to the Respect campaign I have yet to see any improvement in the way anybody is being treated and I include everybody in that not just officials.

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In my opinion, if a player has to ask a referee what a decision was for, then you have to question the right of that player to be on the pitch in the first place. If every player/manager/coach or even spectator contacted the CCFA and asked for a copy of the latest 'Laws of Association Football' book and read it from cover to cover and then read it again and then read it again every month and passed an exam like the match officials, then and only then should a player earn the right to clarrify a point in law.

But congratulations to Dave for trying to see that some form justice was done on the night.

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There may not be any excuse for abusive Language, & Alan has been punished for the use of it,

but your hear plenty of it during a game & nothing is done about it,

So when are the Referee's going to clamp down such abusive Language,?

Maybe never !!

Hammers, :c:^_^ :c:

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Guest shaz

i think if refs want respect they should also gave some to the players,agreed when they get abuse it is hard,but when asking a ref about his desicion and not shouting and he shouts at you like a young boy, then players will react,i witness this last game of season launceston v torpoint.when the ref made mistakes all game and booked players and they came from appalling desicions from him players get wound up by bad refs with attitudes,hence he sent a player off coming from two very bad desicions from him,we all make mistakes just wish refs could be more honest with them selves

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Hi Stig

I'm not really in tune with your opinion. I think we have a right to ask the referee what the decision was given for as long as it's done in the right manner. I've been involved in games where the referee has given a decision and we didn't know why he'd given it. When we politely asked his assistant if he knew why the referee had made the decision he said he wasn't sure!

Does that mean that the assistant shouldn't be on the pitch either?

Sometimes it's obvious and players should know better than to question the decision.

I referee school matches and I don't mind explaining why I've given a decision if it's asked in the correct manner, at least I can explain for their information and education. What I don't like and won't have is players questioning me simply to undermine my authority or attempt to sway my decision.

As for the "Respect" campaign! It needs to come from the top down as well as the bottom up. I haven't witnessed much of the former so far have you?

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I think we have a right to ask the referee what the decision was given for as long as it's done in the right manner.

I agree in principle, but often 3 or 4 players crowd around the referee at the same time demanding a reason for his decision. Perhaps, as in rugby, only the captain should be allowed to approach the referee.

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Gentlemen, just to clarify you have no right to query a referee`s decision, personaly I will explain my decision if needed but on most occasions players just want to express their disagreement of your decision and hold a debate on what happened and telling you exactly where you as referee were wrong. Also in a recent match the captain of the home side persisted in telling me that I had got many decisions wrong, it got to the point where I informed him that if he persisted in questioning my decisions I would take disciplinary action, his reply was astounding, he said " as captain i am allowed to query any decision that I disagree with" needless to say it was not long before he was cautioned for dissent.

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Gentlemen, just to clarify you have no right to query a referee`s decision, personaly but on most occasions players just want to express their disagreement of your decision and hold a debate on what happened and telling you exactly where you as referee were wrong. Also in a recent match the captain of the home side persisted in telling me that I had got many decisions wrong, it got to the point where I informed him that if he persisted in questioning my decisions I would take disciplinary action, his reply was astounding, he said " as captain i am allowed to query any decision that I disagree with" needless to say it was not long before he was cautioned for dissent.

B Manning if you really are a Ref you are doing them no favours with your threads. Your attitude and arrogance in your replys just sums up why players and managers get so frustrated with offcials on match days.What do you mean by (I will explain my decision if needed)does that mean you got it wrong and if the player dares (to query a referee`s decision)the easy way out would be cover my mistake with a (cautioned for dissent)if you have made a mistake why not just calm the situation down by apologising and admitting you made a mistake, at the end of the day you are only human and I think there would be more respect from the players if officials started to act like it.

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The Python, yes I am a ref and one of considerable experience ( reached level 3 ) if that is any help to you, also I am not arrogant and certainly do not have an attitude. A question was asked about the right to query refree`s decisions my answer was that there is no right to query a referee`s decision, you also comment about me when needed expaining a decision, it`s purely my judgement as to whether I explain any decision, you also offend me to suggest that i would caution any player to cover up a mistake, that is a total load of *******s. Of course I make mistakes during a game and I will also always admit to that, you are only fooling yourself if you do not admit that you can and do make mistakes. Please let me know who you play for and i will tell you if I have officiated at any of your games.

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B Manning - AKA Dictator!!

Mr Manning, why does a player have no right to question the decision of a referee? Actually I've worded that wrong. The player does have no right to quesiton the decision, he gives what he sees and that's that. But a player has a right to ask why it was given, as Tommy said, much more politely. Your arrogance doesn't help improve the standards of the game. A simple response is all that'a required, such as, you came through the back of him, you pushed him, foul play etc. Part of the reason referees get criticised is that they are not open and therefore gain no respect, this arrogance is highlighted in your posts. I have heard many referees this season shout at players telling them to shut up and go away when they have been asked very politely by a player what they have done wrong! This is not right.

Stig, you're not back to your compulsory knowledge tests for all players are you? Referees need to know the rules so that they can officiate the game within the rules. (I hate that everyone calls the laws). Some of the best players iv'e ever known have been as thick as two short planks! THe only thing a player really needs to know? Kick the ball, not the man! In fact, if you had players knowing all of the rules, i reckon it would bring more questioning of the referees, especiialy some of the poor ones!

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B Harvey, would you withdraw the title AKA A Hitler in reference to myself, I had relations who gave their lives for us in the second world war so take total offence as to your ill thought out comment. I hope the forum moderators take note of your personel attack on my character. By the way it`s not my view that you have no right to query the referee`s decision,it`s the Laws of the Game (or rules), the referee is appointed as arbiter for a game all decisions are his and his alone, by stepping out onto the field of play you have agreed to abide by his decisions.

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B Harvey, would you withdraw the title AKA A Hitler in reference to myself, I had relations who gave their lives for us in the second world war so take total offence as to your ill thought out comment. I hope the forum moderators take note of your personel attack on my character. By the way it`s not my view that you have no right to query the referee`s decision,it`s the Laws of the Game (or rules), the referee is appointed as arbiter for a game all decisions are his and his alone, by stepping out onto the field of play you have agreed to abide by his decisions.

Now changed. Apologies.

But please can you provide the relevant rule/law which states that a referee cannot be asked why he gave a decision?

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Thankyou for that B Harvey, Now to the Laws of the Game Law 5- the Referee and I quote " The decisions of the referee regarding facts connected with play are final" so there is no recourse to query the referee as his decisions ( whether you agree or not )are final. Now you slightly rephrased your coment to " ask the referee" now I have no problem myself with that the only thing is that during a game there is not time to get involved with asking and getting replies, what I do is to tell the player to please see me after the game, whereon I will inform the player that provided his conversation stays sensible I will endevour to answer his question. I hope this sets out my comments in a different light and i hope my approach is the sensible one. I like nothing better during a game than some banter and chat with players thats why sometimes if a player asks I can give a quick explaination as to a decision I have made but other times its more complicated as some players want an in depth explaination of which there just isn`t time.

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I have heard many referees this season shout at players telling them to shut up and go away when they have been asked very politely by a player what they have done wrong!

Just where are all these 'polite footballers'? They seem to be extremely rare! Perhaps in the matches I've watched their politeness has been drowned out by the loud and constant swearing of their teammates! :angry2: :angry2:

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Regretfully we are all suffering from lowering standards in all walks of life in this Country and football has become jacked up in intensity from Politicians down though football administration and to a generation that questions authority from school days and on.Football fails to deal firmly enough, just like the Law.

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Regretfully we are all suffering from lowering standards in all walks of life in this Country and football has become jacked up in intensity from Politicians down though football administration and to a generation that questions authority from school days and on.Football fails to deal firmly enough, just like the Law.

Spot on! Football is the largest participation sport in this country, and will therefore reflect society. Lack of respect in general society will inevitably lead to greater levels of anti-social behaviour in football.

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"WHAT A SHAME HE HAD TO BE ACCUSED IN THE FIRST PLACE".

A very interesting comment really!

Unfortunately, Alan Carey does seem to revert to foul language on too many occasions, when matters are not going his way. To call it passion is rather weak, lack of breeding more like.

Why should Officials be expected to accept a tirade of foul language, when all they are trying to do is "their job".

The "Respect" campaign has proved itself to be an utter joke and a total waste of time. When will the use of foul language be totally outlawed, as it does not have a place in the modern game.

Consistency is required by the Officials, use of foul language from any players or official to be punished by a yellow card and red card for subsequent violations. The game would change within the first month.

Your response Mr Manning, please.

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ontheball2010, I have to agree with your comments as to the Respect Campaign and as for offensive or insulting or abusive language and or gestures that is a straight red card and should be treated as such, there is no yellow card for this offence. On this subject I as an experienced referee need to actually see the lips move as well as hear the language it is so easy to hear foul language turn around and send off the wrong person a trap which an inexperienced referee could easily fall into. Also I need to recognise how it is said, if a player stubs his toe, misshits a shot etc and uses foul language to himself I tend to have a quiet word but any player using that type of language to an opponent, fellow team mate or indeed aimed at myself if I can see , hear and positively identify that player then I take the necessary action, ie a red card and dismiss the player from the field of play. So yes we as officials need to be more consistant with this offence and deal with it correctly.

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Guest shaz

mr manning your replys echo the problems we have in refs ,since the respect campaign has come in,which i agree with it seems the tables have turned,with refs at this level seeming to have massive chips on there shoulder and looking like they enjoy booking and sending players off,not saying you or all refs are like this,but respect comes from both ways,you dont need a rule book to find respect it is clearly printed in the english dict,

so why dont we all work together rather than being two kinds of species :drink:

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so why dont we all work together rather than being two kinds of species

Exactly where its all gone wrong. Officials and players have never been further apart. In the past there was banter between the two. Referees didn't have pressure applied to them in the way of assessors that they do today. Players' language wasn't so bad either! <_<

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Guest Robbie

I can sympathise with some refs regarding some of the abuse they receive, some is just totally out of order. Some would say that's rich coming from me! I've probably questioned more decisions than anybody. However, there are arguments from both sides, and let's face it, most managers, players & supporters only see things one way. Refs years ago used to be more approachable, I remember saying to Peter George once, hey ref that's crap, he replied, so were you when you missed that sitter five minutes ago! What do you say to that, especially when he had a big grin on his face! There isn't that banter now & I think too many refs are too officious & unapproachable. They are going to make mistakes, the same as us players & managers do. I think many of them take what's said as a personal attack on them, when in fact it's just someone questioning a decision they've made, whether it be right or wrong. Some decisions are ridiculous & this is at at all levels. Where I'm concerned, if they don't get it wrong, then I won't question them, I don't question every decision, only the obvious howlers. As I said, they are only human & will make the odd one, no matter how good they are. If, when I asked them, they said Robbie, I didn't see it, or I wasn't sure. then I think I would be much more human towards them. I'm sure most people would agree. I don't know the circumstances concerning Alan, but I do know him very well & was very surprised to hear someone say he'd attacked an official. Alan is a very passionate guy regarding the game, the same as I am, like myself he kicks every ball. As someone else said respect needs to be a two way thing, it's earned, not just given out. That's a fact of living, not just in football. Come on guys, lighten up, this great game is all about having fun, don't spoil it on one hand by dishing out as many cards as you can, or on the other, abuse as many officials as you can. RESPECT can work, with effort from all parties. Have fun. :c:

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Shaz, these problems were there long before the Respect campaign came about and i can assure you that I take no pleasure from issuing cards my wife could verify this as when I get in I will usually tell her that it was good and no cards today. Also it`s no fun sitting in front of the PC writing reports to the CCFA. As far as I am concerned I am always approachable and always have been and i love the banter and chat between myself and players during a game it`s what makes match days enjoyable. I love the game of football and every match day I am privledged to watch a game from very close quarters, so this is the reason I am still officiating. But i will admit that at times when the mire is on the big fan so to speak I wonder what i am doing there, because some people just seem to go out of their way to cause problems.

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Guest shaz

correct mr manning,it get us all down,like i said i not pointing finger at you,i know its tough job and we need you ,but i just feel its got far to serious now wheres the enjoyment gone?? i personally feel you can kick people in the air all day but soon as you open mouth its a yellow,common sense needed from both sides good luck next year

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Personally I think the way Mr Cloke approaches the game should be commended. He loves a banter with the players and even mixes well in the clubhouse after games.

The fact that he started out in white boots tells its own story too!!!

In a recent match just before he was about to start the game, the home bench were heard to be shouting, 'Gentlemen Enjoy' and 'Thank you Sir', which have become 2 of his favourite catchphrases during a game. He found it so funny that he could barely put the whistle to his mouth to start the game!!!

I have also heard instances this season (not Mr Cloke may I add) where a player has verbally slated a referee for his performance, only for the referee to chirp back, 'I'd concentrate on your own game player, as you're having a shocker!' Now to me that is just good natured banter on the referees part, so it is give and take really to an extent.

In my experiences over the years as a player, the better referees, in my opinion, were people like Paddy Kierney and Ian McKinnon (apologies to the others not used as an example)as they had a good rapport with the players and commanded respect.

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Just reading this thread for fun really - surely it can't be serious ??? - I'm reminded of a comment I made to a ref' late in the season, think it was at Godolphin ?? "keep up ref" the ref's reply was instant and perfect: "if I could keep up, I'd still be playing!" It was a crap game between Bodmin Saints and Godolphin but the ref actually had a good game thankfully.

As for most of the comments here? Whiney and pathetic. Let me suggest all ref's just jack it in. No ref's, no footy. Grow up for gawd's sake, stop blaming the man in the middle for your own shortcomings, like a bunch girlies!

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"WHAT A SHAME HE HAD TO BE ACCUSED IN THE FIRST PLACE".

A very interesting comment really!

Unfortunately, Alan Carey does seem to revert to foul language on too many occasions, when matters are not going his way. To call it passion is rather weak, lack of breeding more like.

Why should Officials be expected to accept a tirade of foul language, when all they are trying to do is "their job".

The "Respect" campaign has proved itself to be an utter joke and a total waste of time. When will the use of foul language be totally outlawed, as it does not have a place in the modern game.

Consistency is required by the Officials, use of foul language from any players or official to be punished by a yellow card and red card for subsequent violations. The game would change within the first month.

Your response Mr Manning, please.

ontheball i totally echo your comments, you seem to be someone who really respects the game and its decisions unlike some clubs. When i say clubs i mean a club that I was linesman for for not even half a season. You say in your last sentence about foul language from players or officials which should mean yellow red etc.. totally agree. for example, vospers oak villa decided to retract me from my duties as linesman for the club as the players could not agree and get along with decisions i made. particularly the decision to get a player on vospers cautioned for constact dissent to me throughout the game. nobody will ever learn their respect from officials unless they are punished or talked to because of the decisions that are made. as officials we shudnt put up with crap from a player and if we ever spoke or complained to league the league would only speak to the clubs about it to ensure it doesnt happen again, determined on what the referees report says.

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I think it is wrong to tarnish all referee's with the same brush. many referee's try to communicate with players and man manage matches rather then getting cards out left right and centre. for example martin smith talks plenty to the players! he's been in local football for many year's and his reputation is better then most too, most probably 'cause he does talk to the players

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the best referee's are the one's that give reason's for their decision's - fact !! More players and managers come to terms earlier about decisions if they are given a reason. A referee who continually talks through a game, explaining as he goes, giving praises about football passes and shots etc, is a referee that will earn respect. These are the tools that all referee's should be given to referee football. I don't agree that referee's should know that they are being assessed. It puts undue pressure on them.

I fully understand why Alan Carey went "beserk" regarding the build up to the 3rd goal. We all, in that situation, would have done the same, but a simple word from the official backing up his assistants decision, would have been better than no contact at all. In Alan's eye's the ball was still out of play when he remonstrated after the game.

Players need to do more regarding their standard's. There have been too many instances of poor play by players this season. I would like to see swearing at a referee become an instant red card. Maybe clubs should adopt a policy similar to Buckland's whereby a booking by dissent is a double fine. Mark Hayman at the recent presentation night, told us how much money had gone back to the county via fines....it is staggering.

We are all passionate about football, every single one of us but we all have responsibilities.

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