The ECPL SGM (surprises)

[Guest]

The ECPL SGM threw up a few surprises.

League increased to 32 teams

Godolphin go up to Peninsula

Bodmin stay in Premier Division

(EDITED)

As it stands Padstow voted back into league and until they decide at a club meeting tomorrow then they remain in the premier Division.

St Stephen, Tavistock, Bere Alston, promoted to the Premier Division (Camelford will be promoted if Padstow decide to take relegation in to Division One)

St Stephens Borough and St Dominick promoted from Duchy

Lifton not relegated

Plymouth Parkway Reserves, Plymstock United Reserves, Elburton Villa Reserves elected into league

decisions to be ratified at AGM

season 2008/9 16 teams per division.

[Guest ECPL Supporter]

Bodmin stay in Premier Division

How can you finish bottom and not be relegated?

[derek martyn]

More to the point, how can Padstow fail to fulfil several fixtures and not only stay in the League but apparently have a choice as to which division they would prefer to be in ???

Or have i completely misunderstood the posting ??

[Dave Deacon]

Does it mean the ECPL management committee jumped the gun a couple of weeks ago with the following announcement:

It is regretted that Padstow United Football Club have been removed from the East Cornwall Premier League with immediate effect under Rule 14c. Padstow United Football Club has been informed by the league that in view of their failing to fulfil fixtures and being unable to guarantee to the league they are in a position to complete the 2007-8 season, they will be deemed as the relegated club to the Duchy League.

It has also been decided that Padstow United Football Club league fixtures for the season 2007-8 will be expunged as per rule.

ECPL management committee

Or does it mean they have no power? Or what!

[rawa]

the lack of organisation staggers me. Why is it always left until the last minute. Clubs should know at the beginning of the season how many up and down. Any clubs not fulfilling more than one fixture should automatically have big points deductions or relegations.

Congrats to St.Stephens. However, do the league know what they are doing. I certainly wouldn't play an eleve a side game on it.

[The Gooner]

It never ceases to amaze me at what happens at the ECPL.

They seem to change the rules at the drop of a hat.

Surely it must state in their constitution that teams are relegated if they finish in the bottom two positions for example?

I realise that the league is increasing in numbers but why were there not more teams promoted from division one?

How on earth can Padstow be given the option of playing where they feel like playing next season after being thrown out of the league.

Why the U turn by the management committee.

P..S up in a brewery springs to mind.

[chairman]

This should bring a call for changes in the top admin.The League has become a farce since the loss of Ken Adkins.

[CoachKT]

Can partially understand why the ECPL have decided on no relegation from the Premier Division, as there has been no relegation from the SWPL or ECPL Div One.

Think that Bodmin may have used a bit of SWPL muscle on behalf of their ECPL counterparts, but Padstow can consider themselves very fortunate indeed, if anything, they should have been re-instated along the same lines as the new (and welcome) applicants from Plymouth and started next seasons ECPL campaign in Division One.

Mind you, I am more than happy to see us (Bere Alston) promoted and am looking forward to crossing swords with the top ECPL sides next season.

[Guest]

Strong words chairman, looking for a job?

Your response to all out dissent against St Stephens' Borough plastic pitch fell on deaf ears and I understand you were not even at the meeting. Is that strong leadership? Possibly your club not getting promotion has had a dampening affect on your enthusiasm.

[chairman]

I don't want the job thanks and was chairing our own Management Meeting at the same time last night.

I'm afraid they have created a demon for themselves with the plastic pitch, just watch.

I hold the League Officials and FA responsible for any injuries brought about by use of it.I wonder where Refs stand on this one as they have that responsibility at every Match.

[The Gooner]

I have been reliably informed that the reason they have had to backtrack over throwing Padstow out of the league is that they couldn't do this without a two thirds majority vote by the member clubs.

It looks like nobody bothered to read the rules?

What a farce

[Guest]

Once again an attack on the ECPL management committee. It is all in the rules laid down and as far as I can see whether we like it or not the rules have been adhered to.

The league has been increased to 32 teams, 16 per division from 14.

Godolphin took promotion into the SWPL which reduced the Premier Division to 13 teams.

I'm just posing the question. Is it right to then relegate Bodmin and Padstow and then promote 5 teams from Division One? (Don't forget Padstow have been voted to remain in the league by I think a 100% vote).

Likewise at the bottom of Division One - by virtue of Godolphin going up then the ECPL cannot relegate a club at the bottom. And again with the Division starting with 14 teams and then losing 3 through promotion plus gaining 2 new places due to expansion, then the question is should 6 new clubs come in and the bottom club get relegated?

As far as Bodmin and Padstow are concerned they have been extraordinarily lucky in that they both escaped relegation last year and likewise this year when both teams were clearly not up to Premier Division standard.

I think the Padstow situation has to be taken in the context of the circumstances at that time. The ECPL acted quickly when Padstow could not guarantee completing their fixtures by removing them from the league and expunging their results. If they had not then the league title could have been decided on goal difference which would have been unacceptable.

Padstow were well within their rights when they made their appeal to the CCFA, I believe quoting a rule which says, 'Any club or team failing to complete 70% of its fixtures in any season shall, (unless the conditions are beyond their control, or the majority of the accredited delegates present at the AGM or a SGM decide otherwise), be debarred from membership the following season'.

The delegates at the SGM voted Padstow should retain ECPL membership.

As far as blaming the ECPL I think that is wrong as the rules have been clearly adhered to and the proper procedure at the SGM took place. It is not a question of changing the rules it is applying them correctly. You can argue the point over Bodmin and especially Padstow over their circumstances but provided nobody breaks the rules of the league and the FA then who are we to argue. I have said this many times, what happens within the ECPL is up to the democratic right of the member clubs.

[Dave Deacon]

It is regretted that Padstow United Football Club have been removed from the East Cornwall Premier League with immediate effect under Rule 14c.

The original release that Padstow were being "removed" referred to being able to do it under Rule 14c. I wonder what this rule actually says?

[chairman]

Rule 14c merely says "in the event of a team not completing all of its fixtures for the season, all points obtained by or recorded against such defaulting team shall be expunged from the Competition table"

So that would not be the Rule.

[Dave Deacon]

In that case it would appear that perhaps a mistake was made by the ECPL management committee.

I don't blame them in being hasty in trying to do something about the Padstow situation. Let's face it, this is a "Senior League" and it's not good enough for clubs to be unable to raise enough players to complete scheduled fixtures.

However, if it is the case that the committee did make a mistake, wouldn't it be refreshing and healthier for them to come out in the open and admit so.

After all, it's only a game! :thumbsup:

[chairman]

My experience of ECPL meetings is that the top table is prone to bullying by certain Clubs.

[Guest crosser]

I have said this many times, what happens within the ECPL is up to the democratic right of the member clubs.

just playing devils advocate and don't really have an opinion on this,

but that statement would imply apart from letting a club with a plastic pitch enter the league??

[Guest]

No Crosser. In the situation with the plastic pitch, the ECPL has to go along with the CCFA who for whatever reason deemed the pitch acceptable for Cornwall Senior Cup matches to be played on. This means that the pitch has to be accepted by the ECPL as being fit to stage CSC ties as it is a pre-requisite to enter the ECPL set by the CCFA.

But hey! are we seriously saying that the CCFA is all about looking after players welfare?

[Guest crosser]

well maybe the ccfa should let the cornwall senior cup final be played on it next season!! like i said I can't really make any serious comment on it as I haven't seen the pitch but it seems like a strange decision.

[chairman]

The wool has been pulled over them eyes

[Deano11]

They havent got a clue about wots going on.......My two year old neice has more sense :SM_carton:

[Julian Chenery]

From the Saltmill website:

The Pilgrim Pitch is a 91.4m x 55m. sports pitch with a 3G rubber crumb and sand-filled surface.

Note not a mention of the word plastic.

This pitch will more than likely be one of the best playing surfaces ECPL teams will play on next season.

[Willser !]

Im due to play on the pitch at saltmill next week ! ! I'll post my feedback on here . . . . unbiased of course ! !

:D

[Shut it Henry!]

Is this for your pre season fitness stick?

Get your hair cut you big girl, I dont want to suffer seeing that alice band again next season!!!

[johnnie bates]

Just a quick Question for ECPL, why was all the east cornwall league clubs sent a letter asking if they would accept a non grass pitch into the league.

I am led to beleive the vote was 1 for 23 against, although the ccfa says they must accept them.

Why the letter ?

[jannerlad]

Get real Borough sec!!!!! That pitch will cause many unnecessary injuries, especially during the wet period. The ball flies off a wet surface and players cant get any real grip underfoot.

What is going to happen when players only bring studded boots to play in?? Are Borough going to deny them playing???

Borough deserve the right to compete in the ECPL through their achievements last season, but they don't have the facilities to enter the league. Using Salt Mill is a cop out!!!!!! It is destroying the credability of "Grass Roots" football.

[chairman]

Time to write to the CCFA and get them to accept responsibility for any injuries caused. But then they can't because even the FA will NOT accept any responsibility.

The League should have stuck out, as they have he ultimate duty of care to all their PLayers.

Borough Sec. does not describe the Spectator accommodation if any.

BRING BACK KEN ADKINS

[Guest Phil H]

91 x 55 meters ?????????????????????????

Well thats entry to the SWPL or the FA Vase or FA Cup etc out of the question as the minimum pitch size should be 100 x 64 meters

Phil H

[Guest]

Just a quick Question for ECPL, why was all the east cornwall league clubs sent a letter asking if they would accept a non grass pitch into the league.

I am led to beleive the vote was 1 for 23 against, although the ccfa says they must accept them.

Why the letter ?

I have no idea, who sent out the letter. The CCFA, ECPL or Borough. It is an unfortunate fact of life that what the CCFA says - goes.

And a reply for Chairman. Do you honestly think Ken would return after being pilloried by the clubs. His message clearly got through and the league is much healtheir and stronger because of him.

Just a small matter chairman. Didn't St Blazey get voted back into the ECPL when they were bottom of the Duchy League Premier Division. I think they needed the committe then.

To be honest, we have all had our say, the decision has been made and everyone has to get on with it. Lets not use up unexpended energy on something nobody can change.

[Guest]

That cannot be right, surely that is the size for kids. Can someone confirm what is the correct size of the pitch. Surely the CCFA cannot have got that wrong.

[Premier Sixes]

I can't believe I am having to do this....

I am amazed at the uneducated babble coming from those who think the 3G pitch will cause injuries.

Premier Sixes FC competed in Duchy 5 on it last year and without a shadow of a doubt it was the best pitch in the division.

3G = 3rd generation which I am guessing the doubters havent seen. The pitch we use has turf which is a good 4 inches long and then on top of this there is a layer of 2-2.5 inch rubber crumb (you can sink a car key right in it). When the season starts if it is a dry summer Borough will have the most forgiving surface in senior football as the rubber crumb doesn't dry out like soil.

Durham City FC's 3g pitch

Rubber crumb being added to a 3g pitch

From Goals soccer website - "Goals uses the very latest 3G artificial grass technology. This amazing surface looks, feels and plays just like real grass! The extra long pile is filled to half height with tiny rubber spheres creating a natural grass feel"

Good luck for the season Borough :thumbsup:

[Premier Sixes]

New Douglas Park home of Hamilton Academicals. Playing in Scottish Premier League 2008-09 on a 3G pitch.

[jannerlad]

Premier Sixes. Uneducated babble????? I forgot that you are obviously the only person who has regularly played on this type of surface and of course all that matters is your opinion. I have played regularly at Salt Mill and in my opinion (in which i should be allowed to share without being called uneducated) is that when the pitch is wet it becomes a quite unforgiving pitch. The ball becomes a ping pong and there is no grip. FACT. If you fall on the surface then you are more than likely going to end up with a burn. Does this happen on a grass pitch mid season??????

I think the addition of St Stephens Borough is valuable. Unfortunately i think they should've got their house in order and found a suitable grass pitch before looking to venture on. They are also having to use another clubs facilities for post match refreshments. Is this the way senior level football is now progressing?????

[budetownfcbicks]

well on a positive note i am looking forward to playing on boroughs pitch.

[chairman]

Thanks jannerlad, someone else gets my point at last and to think that Borough might one day want further promotion and what will they do then?

To compare this with Duchy 5 is an insult I'm afraid

[Premier Sixes]

"To compare this with Duchy 5 is an insult I'm afraid"

Hamilton Academicals - Scottish SPL

Durham City FC - Northern Premier League

Locomotiv Moscow - Russian Premier and Champions league

Russian football federation - UEFA European Championship qualifiers

Premier Sixes - Duchy 5 (now Duchy 4)

It's a fair old mix really. UEFA accept the pitch, the FA accept the pitch, our players love the pitch .... It's a sign of the times and it's going to happen more and more as more 3G pitches open up

[chairman]

Follow that route and we'll all be playing on College plastic courts. Football is all about playing on grass in an enclosed stadium/ground with facilities for spectators adjacent.

You are kidding yourself if you really believe what you say, as that will be the last nail in the coffin of local Football.

Mike Newcombe and the Duchy League have done no favour to football by ever allowing you in their League to start it all off.

[Premier Sixes]

History

Before 1950, grass was the only way to create a playing field. It had its problems, though, particularly in intemperate climates. The ground would freeze solid in the winter, only to turn to slick mud with the thaw or morph into dried straw in the heat of summer. But with proper maintenance, a lush, springy grass field was the perfect site for a game of football, soccer or baseball.

Along came AstroTurf, a 1950s invention that was originally designed to encourage people to be more active outdoors. In 1966, it was installed in the Texas Astrodome where for many years, professional athletes played on its bright-green carpet. But AstroTurf, too, had its problems. "Basically, AstroTurf was a glorified carpet over concrete," says Dr. Michael Meyers, head of the department of sports and exercise sciences at West Texas A&M and lead author of a study on turf injury rates. AstroTurf was blamed for a variety of sports injuries, including "turf toe" and concussions, because its surface was harder than that of natural grass.

Over the past 10 years, new artificial turf surfaces have been developed, and they purport to offer vast improvements over the old AstroTurf. Synthetic turf today usually consists of artificial fibers embedded in a thick layer of pulverized tires and sand. Manufacturers claim that the new products are more durable, better-cushioned to prevent injuries and nearly maintenance-free.

Maintenance

Unlike natural grass fields, synthetic turf playing fields do not have to be watered, mowed, re-seeded or painted (field markings are woven directly into the fabric), so the turf is less expensive to maintain. Keeping a natural turf field in top shape is also more complicated than keeping up a synthetic turf field. Real grass must be aerated, herbicides must be applied and gophers must be battled. These maintenance tasks usually fall to the school maintenance staff, and if a boiler fails, field upkeep may fall to the bottom of the priority list. By choosing to install a synthetic field, school administrators may save money on maintenance and relieve some of the burden on their maintenance workers. However, litter and other solid waste must be removed from both types of surfaces. In fact, dog feces will not biodegrade on synthetic turf, so additional cleanup or stricter leash laws may be required.

Because synthetic turf won't freeze or get muddy like natural grass, it can be used year-round, even in conditions that would usually get a game called on account of rain. Synthetic turf fields have built-in drainage channels to keep the fields from flooding, and of course, ground rubber won't turn to sludge, even in a downpour. But when temperatures skyrocket in the summer, natural grass fields may have the advantage. Proponents of natural turf studied both grass fields and synthetic turf surfaces at Brigham Young University. They found that on hot days, synthetic turf heats up faster and retains heat longer. The synthetic turf had an average temperature of 117 F on its surface and even reached a high of 200 F on a 98-degree day. Watering the field cooled the synthetic surface down significantly, but only temporarily. In contrast, natural turf only reached an average temperature of 78 F. Superheated synthetic turf could adversely affect players if they are exposed to the high temperatures for long periods of time.

Safety

Both synthetic turf and natural turf have the potential to cause injuries, but Maguire cites anecdotal evidence that injuries are less likely on synthetic turf. Dr. Meyers conducted a study of high-school football injuries on natural turf and on synthetic turf. The study, which was published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine, found that different types of turf caused different types of injuries.

"This new generation of synthetic turf typically results in far fewer injuries than we see on the old-generation AstroTurf, the old synthetic artificial carpeted turf. What we found out was typically, we get less joint problems, less major joint damage as far as less ACL injuries on FieldTurf versus natural grass," Dr. Meyers says. "We get fewer cranial injuries, fewer concussions, on FieldTurf versus natural grass because it is a softer surface." In general, Dr. Meyers says, FieldTurf will cause less-traumatic injuries because of its softer surface. It can be softer than grass because in many parts of the country, grass dries out in the fall and winter, so the ground becomes very hard, Dr. Meyers says.

However, another study shows that the risk of concussion is the same, whether players are on grass or artificial turf. Dr. Roseanne Naunheim, an associate professor of emergency medicine at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, published her findings in the Journal of Trauma-Injury, Infection and Critical Care. She found that there was little difference among playing surfaces in terms of concussion risk.

Titre du document / Document title

Risk of injury in elite football played on artificial turf versus natural grass : a prospective two-cohort study. Commentary

Auteur(s) / Author(s)

EKSTRAND J. ; TIMPKA T. ; HÄGGLUND M. ; KARLSSON J. ;

Résumé / Abstract

Objective: To compare injury risk in elite football played on artificial turf compared with natural grass. Design: Prospective two-cohort study. Setting: Male European elite football leagues. Participants: 290 players from 10 elite European clubs that had installed third-generation artificial turf surfaces in 2003-4, and 202 players from the Swedish Premier League acting as a control group. Main outcome measure: Injury incidence. Results: The incidence of injury during training and match play did not differ between surfaces for the teams in the artificial turf cohort: 2.42 v 2.94 injuries/1000 training hours and 19.60 v 21.48 injuries/ 1000 match hours for artificial turf and grass respectively. The risk of ankle sprain was increased in matches on artificial turf compared with grass (4.83 v 2.66 injuries/1000 match hours; rate ratio 1.81, 95% confidence interval 1.00 to 3.28). No difference in injury severity was seen between surfaces. Compared with the control cohort who played home games on natural grass, teams in the artificial turf cohort had a lower injury incidence during match play (15.26 v 23.08 injuries/1000 match hours; rate ratio 0.66, 95% confidence interval 0.48 to 0.91). Conclusions: No evidence of a greater risk of injury was found when football was played on artificial turf compared with natural grass. The higher incidence of ankle sprain on artificial turf warrants further attention, although this result should be interpreted with caution as the number of ankle sprains was low.

From wikipedia

1999

Real Madrid C. F. (Spain) become the first European football club to purchase an AstroTurf system for their practice fields.[17](slightly better than a Duchy 5 team I think)

[Premier Sixes]

"Mike Newcombe and the Duchy League have done no favour to football by ever allowing you in their League to start it all off."

I don't know you, but you come across as an exceptionally bitter individual.

Times have changed since you were a player Chairman. in the words of Kevin Keegan (almost) I would love it, just love it (thats the Keegan bit) if you could try and play a game on one of these pitches to see if that changes your opinion - but that isn't going to happen so the best I can hope for is that you at least have the a balanced enough view to take on the information that I have taken the time to post

All the best for the current season to you and your st Blazey team, and the same goes to St Stephens Borough and trevenson United from down south.

:drink:

[Premier Sixes]

Young Boys Bern's stadium with Artificial turf

Salzburgs stadium with artificial turf

[chairman]

Firstly,Premier Sixes,I am not bitter and would do anything to further local football and particularly for the young and disadvantaged.

Which of the super pictures you keep showing is nearest to the facilities you or St Stephen Borough play on?

The FA will not accept any responsibility for 3G pitches so how can they force them on a League,which we are led to believe has happened.Phil Hiscox has already pointed out in this Forum that St Stephen's pitch does not come up to the minimum required for senior Adult football.

[Julian Chenery]

Chairman, I can only suggest you read Page 47 of the CCFA handbook.

Pitches sizes:

Length - max 120 metres, min 90 metres

Breadth - max 90 metres, min 45 metres

Think you'll find therefore that Saltmill is of senior football size.

[Guest Phil H]

Fortunatly in the Pyramid 100 x 64 is the minimum (110 x 70 yards) so all Saltmill can achieve is to possibly block up a space for an ambitious club looking to get into the top 2 and be promoted.

Is it true that spectators have to stand outside a 12 foot high chain fence to watch the games ?

Is it possible we could have pictures of Saltmill itself rather than other clubs grounds ?

[Dave Deacon]

to possibly block up a space for an ambitious club looking to get into the top 2 and be promoted.

Ouch! Possibly a little bit harsh to say this about a club that's only been going ten years or so and have probably shown more ambition in that time than a lot of clubs who have been in existence a lot, lot longer.

Then one could also say the same about the likes of Porthleven and Budleigh Salterton in the SWPL who didn't want promotion! Where are the ambition of these clubs, just to name a couple - there are no doubt more?

The heads of the East Cornwall League's Committee members must really be spinning with the below-listed issues all causing concern and in some places embarrassment!

1) Padstow United

2) Evely Cup

3) St Stephens Borough

4) Promotion and relegation within the league structure

:o

[Premier Sixes]

Newquay Tretherras / Newquay Sports Centre Artificial Football pitch

Saltmills Articial Football pitch

[chairman]

The FA stipulate that the pitch plus run off must be 106 x 71 and of the same materials.They also state that the visiting team should be allowed 2hours training before the game.Will this requirement be complied with?

The latest pictures from Premier Sixes say it all. Is that really what Cornish Senior Football is being reduced to?

[TRUCKER]

I have played on a 3g pitch at callington, and have to admit the surface is second to none, i think some people may be get confused with the regular astro turf which aint too clever. The only injuries i can see is from burns when sliding, but no different to sliding on a rock hard bumpy pitch at the end of season.

Im looking forward to playing on it if the opportunity arrises, so good luck to them, the concerned i have is could they be gaining an advantage from playing on it every week?

[Guest Phil H]

Sorry I was hoping for an answer as to whether spectators have to view the game from behind the fence ? It would appear to be around 10 / 12 foot high from the picture ?

[chairman]

Phil,as a thoroughly efficient and well-informed Administrator, can you see my concerns?

[Nick Pope]

Now the ECL SGM has been held - When, where and what time will the ECL AGM be? Thanks.