A Problem at Torpoint ???

[Stig]

Here, what are your thoughts on the matter?

[Dave Deacon]

Unless we were at the particular game yesterday, I don't think we can really comment, do you Stig.

What does concern me though is why has the "assumed referee" who started the threat mentioned something that happened a couple of years ago.....not just once, but a couple of times? He says he hasn't got a grudge, but really?

The interviewee also mentioned there were good referees, a comment that seems to have been conveniently missed out everywhere.

So Stig, have you had any problems at Torpoint this season? When I've been there this season, there's been no problems whatsoever.

To Stig .... for his big wooden spoon!!!

[B Manning]

Hi Dave as I have said on the other forum, I have no grudge!!!!!!!!!!! as I was trying to point out in my initial post the new forthcoming FA project " RESPECT the Referee" is straight down the toilet if this is how managers behave. I have no problem at all with any manager who wishes to complain about any official through the correct channels, but to call Cornwalls referee`s "clowns" and as I heard it the majority of cornwalls officials were refered to in this way is out of order. Also as he has put these comments in the public domain via your radio interview I feel I am quite entitled to respond. One other point for you I am not an assumed referee I am a referee and have been for many years and officiated at the dizzy heights of what now would be level 3.

[Soccer Follower]

Can i just ask,Dave,if you introduced Mr.Stephens as "A man in in the crowd" or the "Torpoint Manager" because i,and most other people listening,had the impression that he was being interviewed as the latter?

[Guest Sport Lover]

B Manning, if you were called a cheat did you report the incident?

Also, with the slating of ref's :-

a) it would be hard to play any matches without them

why would you want to be a ref when you only get slated, by players, fans and managers!.

c) A shortgage of refs will stop the managers for slating them, they might actually be glad to have them

d) managers should really concentrate on getting their own house in order before slating others. (Benitez is a good example of that!)

e) all managers should read the rule book every year cover to cover before they are allowed to comment on rules.

[claret&blue]

If the Torpoint manager shouldn't have been at the game then why was Alan Carey also sat in the stand if he was banned from football. Also wasn't Mr Carey on the pitch during the Senior Cup Semi Final before the start of the extra time whilst also suspended?

I was at the game on saturday and the referee did have a nightmare awarding two dubious penalties to a poor Bodmin side. If the second infringement was a penalty then the defender who was the last man should have been sent off, as he was not then maybe it shouldn't have been a penalty?.

Not sure who the Radio Cornwall reporter was, but from his assessment of the game i am not sure if he was actually looking at the pitch or facing the back of Bodmin's grandstand!

[allforone1889]

Read in the paper today 7,000 new referee's started this season as 7,000 left the game, unless the FA and local FA's back the referee's it will be a very sad day for the game.

[Dave Deacon]

Where exactly is this shortage of referees?

Not at the level for the South West Peninsula League Premier Division - that's why the FA have asked the league to expand it to 22 clubs! To give the referees enough games to be valid for promotion

Not at the Western League Premier level - that's why you get some Cornish-based refs complaining that they aren't getting enough games!

[Guest Postie Pidge]

The shortage is felt by those of us who aren't good enough to play at a high standard and play junior football.

[Dave Deacon]

Well that same referee I mentioned who is reffing too infrequently at Western League Premier level - went from reffing WL Prem one week to Mining League 2 the next!

No disrespect to Mining League 2, but how's he going to improve his game if the level he refs is such a big contrast week after week!

Can i just ask,Dave,if you introduced Mr.Stephens as "A man in in the crowd" or the "Torpoint Manager" because i,and most other people listening,had the impression that he was being interviewed as the latter?

Why does it matter? At the end of the day, whether he is suspended or not, he is still the manager! :glare:

[Ken Reed]

I'll probably get hung out to dry for this but I ask one question. Why can't a man say exactly how he feels? If it's from the heart and he believes in what he is saying then so be it, that's his belief and his alone. Maybe Ian Stephens choice of words could have been better but he surely has a right to say what he feels. How many listened and how many thought what he said was right or have even had the same thoughts at some stage of their football careers without having the nerve to actually say it in public. I'd wager there are quite a few. Come on chaps, how many of you walk away from a game talking about the referee rather than the game? Because Ian Stephens said what he did on air and others simply talk about it in closed ranks, does that make him wrong for giving his own opinion. I'd say he was an honest guy who against all the odds is doing his very best to make Torpoint a side to be reckoned with in the SWPL and his frustration came out for all to see. Even Alan Carey said he would have been disappointed if one of the decisions had gone against him. What's wrong with freedom of speech? Referee's have the right to take action with cards or through the FA and don't take kindly to any form of criticism, what can do managers except say exactly how they feel.

Regarding `nipping the interview in the bud`, as Stig calls it, surely it's Dave Deacon's job to get as much from an interview as he can for the benefit of all the listeners. If he didn't get an honest reaction and at times ask the difficult questions we all want answers to, it really wouldn't be worth his while doing his bit for Cornish Football. I say well done Dave Deacon.

[Guest Dermot]

Sensible words Ken,i listened to the interview and having worked in radio i know that we were taught to use `loaded` questions to provoke the best reply,so Dave was only doing his job.

As for Ian Stephens reply,well that is entirely up to him to speak his mind,i have been an Assistant Ref for Torpoint a few times and he is a passionate guy who loves the game,as we all do.

As a Referee i have had a bit of a slating on this very Site,not nice but you just have to get on with it and look towards the next game. ;0) :smiley20:

[Dave Deacon]

Let's just not bother expressing an opinion about anything anymore.

contravenes the FA's child protection policy

.... aren't we now stooping to the lowest form of excuses Stig for not bothering to have an opinion?

[Guest Man on the Post]

It's not just about getting a story these days, you have a duty to protect players and officials a like from degrogatory remarks and character assassination or you may find yourself in trouble with the authorites, that is why I said that the interview should have been nipped in the bud soon after it started.

Stig, can you give us details of a case where it has been established that a sports reporter / commentator has such a duty, which authority instigated the action and the sanction imposed?

[Ken Reed]

Stig - that's far too heavy! I think you're looking to create waves here, after all - you started this topic and I think you're looking to get someone into hot water for expressing an opinion.

You also seem to believe that Dave Deacon should have taken a different approach because young referee's may be listening. What utter rubbish! You're upset because someone dared to give their honest opinion about the officials and you want your pound of flesh. I refereed for 15 years on and off having good games and some not so good. I can't ever remember signing a pact supporting all officials whether they have good days or bad - or is it something new?

What do you expect people to do? If you mess up at work you get a roasting from the boss, if a player messes up during a game inevitably he gets a roasting too but from the manager. It seems to me that if a referee messes up, you think he should be congratulated. Is that really what you mean. You aren't untouchable but you are very touchy.

Answer me this. A certain current REFEREE has an opinion every week in a local Sunday newspaper and in his column, he says what he feels and behold, he doesn't get chatised. A few weeks ago he actually had the audacity to call all footballers thugs. I took exception to this and expressed my concern to the CCFA Secretary Mr Barry Cudmore - guess what? I didn't get a reply and I'm assuming no action taken.

At the cup finals on Easter Monday I was talking to a group of referee's from the West about incidents at the recent Plymouth Schools game when we were joined by two referee's from the East (no names here) and one of these referee's `expressed his opinion` in rather certain terms by saying and I quote, "it was those f*~#ing w*#~#*s from across the water, all those Plymouth w*#~#*s fault". As much as I disagreed with the way he went about relaying his comments, I didn't reply and simply walked away. It was all he deserved. Now, will he get into hot water? I very much doubt it because it was said in closed ranks.

One rule for one and a different rule for another - is that what you want?

[Guest Man on the Post]

Spot on Ken, agree with everything you've said. Stig's reply to my point was exactly as I expected. There has not been any action taken in such circumstances and I don't think there ever will be. Stig's warnings on this matter are baloney. :SM_carton:

[Guest Man on the Post]

Stig, I'll try again (in exasperation!). You have still not explained exactly what legislation Dave Deacon has breached! Do you have an answer?

[gary]

Stig, get a life and stop acting like a child, and most of all stop stiring things up.

[Dave Deacon]

Stig ..... I appreciate you're sticking up for your fellow referee colleagues. But, I think your time would be better put to helping them in the instances of more protection from players who impose physical abuse.

The situation in question being the recent incident when the player allegedly ran 50/60 yards in an attempt to head-but the referee, leaving the ref on the ground with a bloody nose and split lip. The player received a 5 year ban. Was that sufficient?

I've just run a straw-poll in the office I work in : out of 6 people asked, they are of the opinion that the player should have got a far tougher ban!

This actually happened - no hyphothetical suggestion on this one!!!!

[Soccer Follower]

Dave, we have not had it confirmed what punishment was meted out by the CCFA to the assailant,only the result of a conversation between him and Local Boy.I've no reason to dispute Local Boy's discussion but would have expected the CCFA to impose a life ban with no appeal for ... (5?) years,which may be where it needs to be confirmed.

That would be a different outcome.

[Dave Deacon]

No five years is correct. I spoke to the Sennen secretary today before I posted the comment. :blink:

[Guest Sport Lover]

If I was the ref I would be going for assult charges to be bought against that player.

[Guest Uncle Albert]

Stig is very much out of order, with his hardly-veiled threats.

Dave Deacon was simply doing his job and has done absolutely nothing wrong, and does not need to fear anything from the likes of Stig.

Dave was not expressing an opinion, he was simply interviewing an adult who must have agreed to go on the programme. Stig would be laughed out of court.

We don't want to live in a world where opinion and/or criticism is not allowed, do we? Those like Stig, who apparently do, should perhaps consider going to live in Zimbabwe where those who go against the official line of Mugabe, are tortured and killed. That puts a stop to their opinion.

No Stig, you need to have a rethink on this one. Even referees get things wrong sometimes and as well as receiving praise when someone thinks they have done well, it should do no lasting harm to criticise when they have not done so well.

Most referees I know are thick-skinned. They have to be these days. So fear not, Stig, I'm sure your colleagues will ride this out. And please don't try to threaten people like Dave Deacon, who are only doing their job and bringing us, the footballing public of Cornwall, a great service.

[Guest Uncle Albert]

I was at the match as a neutral, and the referee was very poor, even by Peninsula League standards. His poor decisions had a big say on the outcome of the match. I hope an assessor was watching him, and that the referee in question will be questioned about the penalty decisions he gave to the home team. But we'll probably never hear about it, because the refs union will close ranks, like a masons' society.

Ian Stephens is entitled to express his opinion and, as a spectator at that match hearing the interview afterwards, I thought he was spot on. There are some very poor refs about in this league, as well as some very good ones, as there are poor players and good players.

But let's not encourage a society where praise/criticism is stamped out by do-gooders.

I repeat, Stig, that Dave Deacon was only doing his job, and doing it well. You don't get good interviewers stepping in when an interview is going as well as that one was.

I know Stig won't accept my views or those of anybody who disagrees with his views, because he's a referee, and they are never wrong.

Respect referees, yes; but please let's not stop football-loving people from being able to express their opinions, good or bad.

[Guest crosser]

well said uncle albert :clapper:

[Guest Uncle Albert]

Enlighten us, Stig, on the better ways and means please.

[Guest]

I didn't hear the interview and have only read what has been put in the press. Referees do make almighty ****-ups, but they could be by design or by being in the wrong position at the wrong time or as some others, may just be incompetent at that level.

I was at the Liskeard v Saltash match on Good Friday and from my view there was no question that Chris Wright had been felled in the penalty area. The referee didn't see it because he was behind the play and couldn't possibly have seen the defender completely miss the ball and catch the attacker. The linesman had an excellent view but he didn't give it either. Unfortunately these things happen. It was the same at Wadebridge when Truro's second goal against Saltash was more like scoring a try but the officials didn't disallow it.

These things happen but in our current climate both in sport and in life somebody has to be blamed. I see so often the bench rise as one over an incident that was over 50 yards away but to the bench it was almost a mugging yet I would say in at least 90% of the time the protesters are usually wrong.

Managers and players have every right to be unhappy if they feel a decision has gone against their team. But does that give anyone the right to lambaste a referee in a distasteful manner. We all see things differently and if we are all honest with ourselves we blame everyone but our own team or player.

Don't forget a referee can't compare notes with anyone who wants to listen he sees an incident once and once only. We don't have an Andy Gray analysing every single angle of the incident in the dug out TV the referee makes his decision and that is that.

The problem is we carry over into sport what we see off the field and out on a Saturday night with the boys. Football is an incredibly passionate sport with umpteen different views from umpteen different positions on the field of an incident. A rugby player if aggrieved can quickly vent his frustration and flatten the next opposing player he comes across. A football player can’t so he must as with a manager control his temper or anger. He may not like the decision but he must learn to control himself.

We have fast become in sport what we see every Saturday night on our streets where people become different and get involved in something that is nothing to do with them. Or they are going to 'help out their mates'. It is called yob culture.

I wasn't at the match and I didn't hear the interview so I cannot give an opinion. And yes Dave Deacon has every right to pose difficult questions but it is up to managers and the like to control themselves when replying. They must remember they are talking live on air to thousands of listeners. Professional players and managers are coached and trained to speak to the media, at this level they are not. It could be that the county or league organises such meetings with the media on how to conduct themselves. They must remember they are not talking to their mates but they are talking to Joe public.

I have criticised referees on this site but not in an incendiary like manner, we have to be constructive in our perceived views of what we saw. Players and managers alike should calm down a little more and try when being interviewed to reply in a more circumspect manner and give a point of view. The referee hasn't committed murder he has made a decision rightly or wrongly.

I agree with Stig when he said 'No I'm all for people expressing their views but there are better ways and means of doing it'. Although I feel there was mischief in his original posting.

[Bergerac]

Having spoken to players and officials from various clubs, although the new league has improved in terms of competitiveness, the general opinion is that the standard of referees and their asssistants this season has been consistently poor. The referee and 2 assistants don't help each other out as is the idea.

Whatever the reasons for this, it surely cannot help having a referee's assessor at what seems like every game as it seems to affect their performance.

With reference to Stig (whose comments are ridiculous), people have a right to voice their opinions. With the expenses referees receive, they deserve to be criticised after a poor performance just the same as players who pick up money for playing.

Mr Stephens had every right to voice his anger after the referee in question made a terrible decision in awarding Bodmin a second penalty which killed the game at 3-0. Apparently the player adjudged to have been brought down even apologised to Torpoint players!

The problem is that most referees were last to be picked in the school playground and have never played the game. This results in a lack of understanding and common sense towards certain situations.

[Guest Dermot]

Whoa! whoa! there Bergerac,its obvious that you are a regular poster on this site and are too afraid to reveal your true identity,thats why you are posting under a different name.Whilst i agree with Dave Deacons interviews and Ian Stephens right for freedom of speech (to a certain extent),i do not agree with you when you say that we Referee`s were the last to get picked for the team in the playground and have no knowledge about football.

I think you will find that a lot of Refs have played to a good standard in local football and choose to Ref to put something back into football, I personally played Senior football in Leicester,moving on to manage several teams as well as working with Youth footballers,so whilst you are insulting good people in sport from behind your disguise,it might pay you to think about what you post and not generalise everyone into one category,which in your case seems to be that all Refs & Assistants are rubbish. ;0( :glare:

[chairman]

How sad to read this continuous criticism of Officials from unknown individuals hiding behind untraceable nom de plumes.

We are lucky that we still manage to attract anyone to perform the duties for the pittance paid and expect them to face the tirade of abuse from Players,Officials and so-called Supporters.

For what it's worth, I consider that no-one in a responsible position should be allowed to go on air and bring the game into dis-repute without the appropriate action being taken by CCFA.

[Guest h8ymo]

Chairman, Well said, continue to abuse them, prepare to lose them . . . .

As Phil H has already posted on our Website, "the average club marks for the season to date are very healthy and a couple of percentage points above where the FA would expect them to be", so things aren't quite so bad as everyone is making out.

As Enola ###### wrote on the thread on the site, there are proper channels to make the appropriate observations about officials, this whole matter could have and should have been conducted in writing between Club Secretary and League Secretary. Is that too much to ask ?

MH

[Guest Postie Pidge]

I was speaking to a referee today who is beating himself up for a decision he made in a match that in hindsight was wrong. Everybody makes mistakes (I made loads today!) and to that referee - keep your chin up!

[Guest Dermot]

So who was `Bergerac` and where has he gone ? ;0( :angry2: