SEEING AS NOBODY ELSE HAS MENTIONED IT

[Coopsie]

Tottenham WERE well beaten by Man Utd yesterday, FACT..

Spurs WERE winning extremely comfortably until the useless tw*t that goes by the name of Howard Webb decided that his beloved Man Utd needed something of a shove in the right direction and awarded a penalty because Gomes is not supposed to make top drawer saves.

EVERYBODY with an ounce of common sense could CLEARLY see that Gomes DID take the ball and that's why ALL commentators, studio analysts and BOTH managers said that it should NOT have been a penalty.

As I said in my opening line, Tottenham WERE well beaten after a superb second half performance by Man Utd BUT the fact is that until the pathetic, cowardly decision was made, Spurs did not look like letting the game slip away. It gave Utd the belief and impetus to push on and totally changed the face of the game.

Why does this kind of thing ALWAYS happen at Old Trafford?. How the hell could the officials see that the 4th goal had crept over the line by half an inch when Woodgate was completely wrapped around the ball and therefore blocking ALL angles of view for ALL officials, yet "that goal" a few seasons back when the ball was some 2 feet over the line with NOBODY obscuring any view whatsoever was disallowed ..

I will reiterate for those that are ignorant or pathetic enough to think that I'm just a bad loser, Spurs WERE well beaten, I have NO problem with that. I just want to know why we couldn't witness a FAIR run in to the end of what has been one of the most exciting title races the Premiership has ever seen?.

The link says it all...

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/premier-league-f...niteds-12t.html

[Guest Man on the Post]

I agree that the penalty should not have been given Coopsie. However all the replays I've seen shows the incident from a camera behind the Spurs goal. I've not yet seen one from the referee's line of vision. It may also be obvious from there that it was not a penalty, but I would like to see it.

The match brought back memories of 2001 when Spurs had a 3-0 half time lead at White Hart Lane and United won 5-3!

[The General]

Sadly Setanta do show a refs virtual view and it shows a clear line of vision however from a distance. If he is not up with play and not sure he cant give it. It seems our best referee is flawed.

[Guest]

Straight penalty, no complaints from me. A referee sees the action once and I wouldn't mind betting that everyone in the ground and watching it on TV said the same thing. So why have a go at the referee. He saw what everyone else saw. Its only when the smart ass presenters watch the incidine t20 times over and slowed down to the nth degree that they put in their tuppence worth. I will have a go at any referee who is incompetent but Webb saw it once as did everyone else and I think it was correct.

[tms no9]

but did you see the dirction the ball moved??

its was never a penalty and never looked like a penalty awful decision

[Never touched him ref!!]

Ecpl, what a crock!!!! If the penalty shout had have been at the other end, i have no doubt that Webb would never have dared to give it!! You can clearly see that the ball changed direction as soon as Gomes made the challenge, replay or not. My first instinct was no penalty, maybe thats just the defender in me!! It clearly changed the game, tho saying that, in a game full of foreign superstars it was nice to see an english international totally change the game. The best game i have seen Rooney play, ever!!!!

[chopper70]

tottaly agree coopsie the ref was a joke they always bottle it at old trafford! i dont care what anyone says that decision DID change the game!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

Its like I said, the referee sees the incident once and acts on it. Did the ball change direction after the player had been fouled, or before we are talking mili seconds here I have seen the incident so many times now that it all happened in a split second. Once again correct decision by the referee

[Guest Porcupine]

And what about the other 4 (yes four!) goals?

Spurs still would of lost 4-2.

You were 2 up and bottled it. So stop crying

[Coopsie]

And what about the other 4 (yes four!) goals?

Spurs still would of lost 4-2.

You were 2 up and bottled it. So stop crying

You honestly believe those goals would have come without the momentum that the penalty decision gave Utd?.

You honestly believe that ALL officials could see that the 4th goal was half an inch over the line?.

You honestly believe that there wasn't the slightest hint of offside about the 3rd goal?.

You obviously are unable to read, otherwise you would be able to see that on SEVERAL occasions in my original post, I CLEARLY say that Spurs WERE well beaten (after that decision) and I have NO problem with that. Therefore your childish and idiotic suggestion to "stop crying" is nothing more than a waste of everybody's valuable reading time.

You have also proven that your chosen user name is CLEARLY representative of you as a person. :rolleyes:

[Coopsie]

Its like I said, the referee sees the incident once and acts on it. Did the ball change direction after the player had been fouled, or before we are talking mili seconds here I have seen the incident so many times now that it all happened in a split second. Once again correct decision by the referee

ECPL, the ball CLEARLY changed direction because of Gomes getting to the ball BEFORE carrick made contact with his arms. It really was obvious because of the extremely drastic change of direction that the ball took after contact was made.

If it went just slightly to the left, it could perhaps be perceived that Carrick had touched the ball to the side and Gomes had indeed taken him out, However, the ball went from rolling towards the goal line, to rolling directly sideways towards the touchline. Even the fact that Carrick basically didn't appeal for a penalty should have dispersed of any doubt in the referee's mind .

You clearly state that the ref had to make a decision in milli-seconds and that everybody watching at home and at the stadium probably screamed for a penalty as soon as the incident happened... WRONG.....

Those of us with just an ounce of common sense knew that because of the drastic change of direction that the ball took, it surely must have been the keeper that won the ball. Then add to that the fact that the ref had such a brief view in such a small amount of time, therefore cannot be absolutely sure of whether Gomes took the ball or the man first... Now pause for a while............ think............. Now tell me that without any shadow of a doubt, the ref KNEW that Gomes made contact with Carrick and not the ball and was right to give the benefit of doubt to the attacking team, which pretty much never happens..

It's like Never Touched Him Ref said, "If the penalty shout had have been at the other end, i have no doubt that Webb would never have dared to give it!!".....

[Guest Man on the Post]

Spurs came out after half-time with a much more defensive attitude than they adopted in the first half. I think they should have attacked, as they did before the break. Yes the referee may have made a mistake, but I think Harry also made a mistake with his tactical half-time team talk! Not that I'm complaining about that. :thumbsup:

[Coopsie]

Spurs came out after half-time with a much more defensive attitude than they adopted in the first half. I think they should have attacked, as they did before the break. Yes the referee may have made a mistake, but I think Harry also made a mistake with his tactical half-time team talk! Not that I'm complaining about that.

Mate,the penalty decision came 11 minutes into the second half, so how can you say that Redknapp made a tactical change and chose to defend?. You have to remember that he was running a side that were playing a team that was 2-0 down at half time and that team just happens to be the best team in Europe.

I was obviously not in the changing room but I can pretty much imagine any manager saying "right boys just keep doing what you have been doing BUT just keep your guard up for 10 to 15 minutes because these boys are at home, they've got 70,000 people behind them and are going to come at us like bulls at a red rag".. We've probably all heard managers say it to us and also probably said it ourselves aswell?. Makes sense, don't you agree mate?.

[Guest Norry]

hi stewey......it's norry....aka a man utd fan (would u belive) lets face it, it was a stonewall penalty,(gomes) fluffs at it again and causes you to lose,it's a bitter pill to swallow,but you have been in this situation before,remember when you were 3-0 up at white heart lane and still lost....this was the second episode..2-0 up and you blew it he!!he!!..penalty's do change the course of a game,but gomes came out regardless of the direction of the ball,which he did not touch,but caught carrick,his momentum caused carrik's fall....harsh you may say,but we have all seen penalty's given for far less......never mind me ol mate, you are still in very good hands with mr redknapp in charge,and it's only a matter of time,before you get some silverware...

remember it's only a game take care me ol chum......and take a chill pill....we are the champions :clapper:

[Coopsie]

hi stewey......it's norry....aka a man utd fan (would u belive) lets face it, it was a stonewall penalty,(gomes) fluffs at it again and causes you to lose,it's a bitter pill to swallow,but you have been in this situation before,remember when you were 3-0 up at white heart lane and still lost....this was the second episode..2-0 up and you blew it he!!he!!..penalty's do change the course of a game,but gomes came out regardless of the direction of the ball,which he did not touch,but caught carrick,his momentum caused carrik's fall....harsh you may say,but we have all seen penalty's given for far less......never mind me ol mate, you are still in very good hands with mr redknapp in charge,and it's only a matter of time,before you get some silverware...

remember it's only a game take care me ol chum......and take a chill pill....we are the champions

Got to love you Norm mate, all those 20+ yers that I've known you and you still can't resist the opportunity to wind me up you bas**rd .. Stonewall penalty?? .. Gomes came out for the ball, which he did not touch?? .. Fall asleep during the several hundred replays of the incident did you mate?? ..

You are indeed the champions, of pretty much bloody everything .. I've no problems with that buddy and to be honest if Spurs are not able to win anything in any given season, I'd rather your beloved Red Devils won the league, Champions league etc etc instead of any of Chelsea, Liverpool or Arsenal.

[Lee_]

I think Webb should be officiating in the Outer Hebrides after that one.

[Whistleblower]

For me this thread totally sums up football,and why refs get so much stick.Some say stonewall penalty,others say not,we are all human beings(and so are refs,believe it or not),and we all see and perceive things differently.

My view by the way,and it was at the time it happened,never a penalty,the change in direction of the ball showed Gomes not only got the ball,but actually pushed it.

Got to say too,after all his stick this week,thought Berbatov was superb in the game.

[isaac rosenberg]

This is Ferguson getting his own back. He whines about Riley not giving him a penalty last week. Riley was trying to show he was not a United fan despite all the statistics on penalties that suggest otherwise. Webb, on the other hand, was heard at a training event in Spain with d'Urso singing "You'll Never Walk Alone". Equally embarrassed by this media revelation, he gives the penalty to disguise his status as a Liverpool fan. Fergie wins one and loses one. But look at the overall statistics for penalties awarded at OT and the real bias is obvious.

No penalty was justified against Everton or Spurs. For once, Riley was right. But Ferguson is such a master of mind games that Webb was persuaded that he was making two wrongs into a right. It's an OT fix, as usual.

And yes, after the penalty, poor old Spurs were characteristically abject. But, as Lineker said, without the "turning point"......

[Guest Norry]

This is Ferguson getting his own back. He whines about Riley not giving him a penalty last week. Riley was trying to show he was not a United fan despite all the statistics on penalties that suggest otherwise. Webb, on the other hand, was heard at a training event in Spain with d'Urso singing "You'll Never Walk Alone". Equally embarrassed by this media revelation, he gives the penalty to disguise his status as a Liverpool fan. Fergie wins one and loses one. But look at the overall statistics for penalties awarded at OT and the real bias is obvious.

No penalty was justified against Everton or Spurs. For once, Riley was right. But Ferguson is such a master of mind games that Webb was persuaded that he was making two wrongs into a right. It's an OT fix, as usual.

And yes, after the penalty, poor old Spurs were characteristically abject. But, as Lineker said, without the "turning point"......

now now mr rosenberg..do i detect abject misery in your tone,that once again you fail to notice,that making sir mr ferguson your scapegoat..for so called none penalty's at ol trafford,the ref is in charge and his say is final,whether he is right or wrong,he must make that decision alone,he does not have the luxury of tv cameras,and playback replays...and if you belive in such injustice is installed,then maybe we should abandon all refs decisions,and merely wait for the circus of television,to rule over the game...but this does make good reading,and thats what makes football such an endearing sport........come on you reds... :clapper:

[midfield]

The ref made a mistake. Everyone knows that. What is hard to say is that if it hadn't have happened Spurs would have let a 2 goal lead slip.

[gillo10]

Pretty sure that most folks would agree it should not have been given. How many though would not have given it if they were in the same shoes as Mr Webb, with very little time to make the descision? I suspect that number would change.

Not sure how is was Fergies fault but did we expect any other drum to be banged by issac? Perhaps United get more pens at OT because during most games there they do the majority of attacking, therefore the odds would be stacked in Uniteds favour to win more pens than the opposition. Rather than slating Webb and Riley you should be thanking the ref of the game with Everton for not booking Didier "I wont play for Scolari but please still love me even though I embarressed your shirt week after week" Drogba for his shocking dive last week when outjumped by the giant of a man that is Leighton Baines. Let me guess, you didnt see that and Ronaldo dives every three minutes blah blah blah.

[Coopsie]

I found a report that adds ALOT of common sense to this debate.

http://www.setanta.com//uk/Articles/Footba...ees/gnid-50508/

[Martin Eddy]

good one coopsie.

you common sense and tottenham in the same sentance :drink:

[Coopsie]

good one coopsie.

you common sense and tottenham in the same sentance

Did I ever tell you how much I hate you Mr Eddy ..

[Mangle]

Sadly Setanta do show a refs virtual view and it shows a clear line of vision however from a distance. If he is not up with play and not sure he cant give it. It seems our best referee is flawed.

Hold on General, don't tell me Webb is human. Human...surely not, he can't make mistakes........

As Coopsie well knows, my initial reaction was that it was a penalty. Reason, it looked to me as if Gomes had hit Carrick before making contact with the ball. Having done so, and sent Carrick up in the air, the ball could have changed direction from a Gomes hand or a Carrick boot. Let's face it, if a player tackles in the centre circle, wiping out the player then getting the ball, it's usually a foul. Not many arguements there. Of course, it looks worse because outfield players can't use their hands, and have to go in with their feet. If Gomes made the same challenge feet first, and it looked like he got the man before the ball, I'm sure there would be less of a debate.

As ECPL rightly says, Webb has a split second to see it and make a judgement. For God's sake, let's not say that we should be using video technology, we've all seen it 20 times now in super slo-mo and still the debate goes on.

It should not have been a penalty after all that. I see that now.

The ball did not appear to cross the line for the other goal either. Like Coopsie says, how can the lino see it with Woodgate wrapped around it?

[Coopsie]

It should not have been a penalty after all that. I see that now.

The ball did not appear to cross the line for the other goal either. Like Coopsie says, how can the lino see it with Woodgate wrapped around it?

The lino did not need to see it, he had Alcy Ferguson's instructions still ringing in his ears after their half time "chat" .. Tongue firmly in cheek fellas... ;)