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I'd rather stay at Anfield than share with that lot anyway!!

but Coopsie, we have permission to build in Stanley Park, just the pair of American twats we have in charge don't have the money to build it, after they promised they would have a spade in the ground within 6 weeks of them buying the club, only for the ***** Hicks, to say he never said that!!!

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but Coopsie, we have permission to build in Stanley Park, just the pair of American twats we have in charge don't have the money to build it, after they promised they would have a spade in the ground within 6 weeks of them buying the club, only for the ***** Hicks, to say he never said that!!!

Was the exact point I was making buddy :thumbsup: ... I DON'T mean this in any offensive way whatsoever mate, and I'm NOT looking to pi$$ you off... BUT if I was a Liverpool supporter at this moment in time, I'd really be quite concerned about the direction my club seems to be taking, both on and off the pitch. :o

I don't quite know what it is mate, something just doesn't seem right, and I don't think they've particularly set the league alight either this season. Almost ordinary??

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We're shite!!

the overall factor in the club is the two americans that are in charge! get them out and the club can move forward once again!

The actual football club doesn't have much debt, its the yanks who've come in and borrowed money to buy the club, once they get bought out by hopefully someone who hopefully has their own money then we'll be fine again.

Cue big protest at the Fiorentina game next week, wish I could be there as well to give my support to the team and to make my feelings clear about the 2 plebs in charge

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Excuse my ignorance here, but, I don't understand how either of them are benefiting greatly financially out of the whole transaction etc mate..

Put themselves into hundreds of millions of pounds in debt, then not really allowing the manager the funds necessary to create a team or squad worthy of coming anywhere near to producing the success that would create the revenue to even clear that debt, let alone make any profit?.

It's so bloody clear that your squad is lacking any sort of REAL quality in depth at the moment.. Once again mate, that's not a dig. I'm not just saying this because I support them, but compare Spurs' squad to yours. You lose Gerrard and Torres, unquestionably your best and most influential players, and the result is that your team has been (in your own words) shite.....

Spurs lose Modric, Defoe, Woodgate, King, Gomes, Lennon (for a bit), EVERY single one of those players is undoubtably vital to anything we hope to achieve. Yet without them, we're 3rd in the league :o .. That isn't me trying to "big up" Spurs Darren mate. It's me comparing the replacements we have for our vital players, to those who are the replacements for your vital players..

Hope all that makes sense?. :unsure:

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Darren, can I ask why Rafa is still so roundly supported? I hear it all the time on here, the radio, the papers etc. It just baffles me to be honest. The man HAS been given money, HE has chosen players to buy, HE has picked the teams, HE chose squad rotation, HE chose to spend on a full back rather than decent back up/partner for Torres, HE played Gerrard(best "box to box" midfielder in the world!) out of postion, HE drove Alonso out, HE said even making the group stage was an acheivement, HE still plays 2 defensive midfielders when it clearly isnt working, HE chose negative tactics when at home drawing vs Stoke, West Ham etc last season....

Not a dig but it just seems the yanks are used as a scapegoat for Rambling Beneating's(sorry couldnt resist ;) ) failings as a manager. I understand the frustrations fans have regarding broken promises by the Americans and the school kid style bickering but, from the outside looking in, this just seems the easy way to vent frustrations. Doesn't look like changing anytime soon either with the Dubai money troubles, if im correct a lot of fans were banking on them to buy out the yanks?

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Darren, can I ask why Rafa is still so roundly supported? I hear it all the time on here, the radio, the papers etc. It just baffles me to be honest. The man HAS been given money, HE has chosen players to buy, HE has picked the teams, HE chose squad rotation, HE chose to spend on a full back rather than decent back up/partner for Torres, HE played Gerrard(best "box to box" midfielder in the world!) out of postion, HE drove Alonso out, HE said even making the group stage was an acheivement, HE still plays 2 defensive midfielders when it clearly isnt working, HE chose negative tactics when at home drawing vs Stoke, West Ham etc last season....

Not a dig but it just seems the yanks are used as a scapegoat for Rambling Beneating's(sorry couldnt resist ;) ) failings as a manager. I understand the frustrations fans have regarding broken promises by the Americans and the school kid style bickering but, from the outside looking in, this just seems the easy way to vent frustrations. Doesn't look like changing anytime soon either with the Dubai money troubles, if im correct a lot of fans were banking on them to buy out the yanks?

Fair points mate.. And not wanting to detract from the discussion that is currently ongoing, but how do you think the current Dubai money troubles are going to affect Man Citeh?.

The link will help give a better understanding of how Citeh could be affected?

http://www.manchestercity.vitalfootball.co...le.asp?a=179271

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Well, guess I will be sharing my tears evenly between the two clubs! :yahoo:

Serves them right being sucked into spending £34million on Carlos Terrible!!

Just the response I was expecting mate. ;)

Smile is well and truly all over my face :D

Predictions for tonights game at the Theatre Of Dreams buddy?. :unsure:

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(If Spurs win) Who cares mate, it's only the League Cup. You can have it, United will concentrate on the "real" trophies!!

(If United win) Ha ha, United kids beat your team of internationals, top 4 my fat hairy arse!

In all seriousness though, I would like to see how these players are really progressing. Keep hearing about Gibson and like what Ive seen so far and pleased him and others are getting a good chance. However, if its similar side to last week I can see Spurs sneaking through....it's Harry, in a cup at Old Trafford after all!!

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(If Spurs win) Who cares mate, it's only the League Cup. You can have it, United will concentrate on the "real" trophies!!

(If United win) Ha ha, United kids beat your team of internationals, top 4 my fat hairy arse!

Internationals or not, it'll still be a team of fringe players. 'Arry has already said that's what'll happen. Probably the only players from the weekend draw with Villa, will be Gomes, Dawson, Bassong?.

The rest will be made up of subs or players that are not really featuring. Players like Hutton, Bale, Bentley, Rose, Jenas, Dos-Santos, Keane, Pavlyuchenko, Naughton.....

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Benitez has been given a fair amount of money to spend, but he's also had to recoup a lot of the money, he's had his hands tied by the owners! He's only been allowed to spend a certain amount of cash per player!

Its a bit like, do you go to Top Shop and spend £100 on 10 goods that will do you, or do you go and buy designer gear and only get 2 items?

£6m no longer buys you a class player, if you wanna be in the top four, you got to be setting your sights higher than that I'm afraid.

Remind me, how long did Fergie get at Utd before things came good?? stability is whats needed? plus, who's better out there??? who's going to replace Fergie when his time is up?? to me there is only one man that is up with Fergie as a big enough name would be Mourinho!

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Benitez has been given a fair amount of money to spend, but he's also had to recoup a lot of the money, he's had his hands tied by the owners! He's only been allowed to spend a certain amount of cash per player!

Its a bit like, do you go to Top Shop and spend £100 on 10 goods that will do you, or do you go and buy designer gear and only get 2 items?

£6m no longer buys you a class player, if you wanna be in the top four, you got to be setting your sights higher than that I'm afraid.

Remind me, how long did Fergie get at Utd before things came good?? stability is whats needed? plus, who's better out there??? who's going to replace Fergie when his time is up?? to me there is only one man that is up with Fergie as a big enough name would be Mourinho!

Darren, I LOVE the Top Shop analogy mate. Absolutely perfect way to sum it up :thumbsup:

As for £6million no longer buys a class player. I don't agree. Didn't Wigan get Valencia for almost nothing, before Man Utd shelled out £16million on him?. Spurs paid £12million for Palacios after Wigan also signed him for a pack of nuts... Hangeland at Fulham cost about £3.50, and then of course there's Samba at Blackburn. He couldn't even get into Hertha Berlin's 1st team, so Mark Hughes picks him up for £400,000. He'd EASILY get 20 times as much as that in the transfer market now.

The players are there mate. Just that scouts aren't all as switched on as those at Wigan etc..

Also, sometimes a manager NEEDS to take a risk. Look at Ferguson, he wanted Carrick but wouldn't fork out the fee West Ham wanted for him. So Spurs nip in and buy the lad for £2.7million. We then sell to Fergie for 9 times as much ;) .. Then there's Berbatov, who Ferguson followed for 2 full seasons, but was reluctant to pay the fee that Leverkusen wanted, and he also wanted him to wait until Van-Nistelrooy had left. Spurs nipped in and paid £10million for the guy, then sold him to Fergie for 3 times as much..

Me thinks alot of clubs bring their financial woes onto themselves :unsure:

Then you take a look at the figures I mention above, and it's EASY to see why Spurs have ALWAYS got money :thumbsup: .

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So what you saying Coopsie is clubs see United coming yes? Fair point!

Darren, think it's hard to use the whole "fergie took years to get it right" as it's a whole new ball game nowadays. Everyone knew back then he would have to change everything from the bottom to the top. The youth set up had a massive restructuring, the whole ethos of the club had to be changed. This takes time. Now though, there is no time for these things. Yes they can still be achieved but success should be there too, perhaps Rafa is a victim of his own success with winning the Champions League?

I see what your saying with the Top Shop analogy (very good by the way) but I would be more worried of the designer gear he bought. In Johnson he bought a nice set of underwear but what he needed was a nice sharp pair of trousers or shirt (striker) if he is going to be a success with the ladies(Premier league). The squad can be buffered by the cheaper players, that as Coopsie says, are out there. And younger players if thats what is needed. Anyway thats only my opinion and what the hell do I know?!!

Coopsie, 2nd option of the above mate ;) . Weird game I thought, Spurs completely dominated but United defended pretty well. Thought they hassled really well and never gave United time to settle. Thought the young uns did pretty well, Gibson must read the forum and wanted to impress me!! Hard to judge Obertan as every pass to him seemed to be at his ugly bonce! De Laet did ok as normally a right sided player, Wellbeck worked hard. Bit disappointed with Spurs 2nd half as thought they would come out flying at United but it just seemed to whimper out as a game. I know he was out of position slightly but was seriously worried Lennon was going to embarress Neville but again, that didnt materialise.

Must say though I thought Berbatov was awesome last night, every time the ball was played to him it stuck. He was composed and gave the easy pass and found his man virtually every time, think I counted two mis-placed and one of those was a flick on header, superb. That for me is why I feel he should be the man who drops deep to pick the ball up and link play not Rooney, gees I hope fergie reads this!! :thumbsup:

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Can't argue with that mate. Spurs, despite the pressing, pretty passing, posession etc etc, were shite. Toothless with no real effort or application applied. I think Bale did himself a few favors, but that's about it. Once AGAIN Keane was crap :rolleyes: , Jenas was worse :o and don't even get me started on Bentley :angry: .. Hopefully they'll all be sold in January :angry2: ..

VERY impressed with Gibson, will he get game time though?.

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Darren, can I ask why Rafa is still so roundly supported? I hear it all the time on here, the radio, the papers etc. It just baffles me to be honest.

You asked Darren and not me, but I thought I'd come in and give Darren a breather, as he seems to be fighting this one single-handed! :drink:

Some of the anti-LFC brigade may roll their eyes, but surely part of the reason for the continued support of Benitez is the honorable (sorry, honourable) "Liverpool Way." It just ain't Liverpool to go 'round baying for the manager's blood -- the way Bolton supporters are treating Megson, or the way Celtic supporters treated Strachan, is a disgrace. As long as Benitez is the manager, he should have the fans' support. To paraphrase an American admiral: "May my manager always be in the right, but here's to my manager, right or wrong." :c:

While I'm not familiar with Top Shop, exactly, the principle seems clear enough, and Darren's got a point. As for the examples Coopsie lays out, I'm not sure I followed all the logic (undoubtedly my fault). Is the idea that at one time those players were cheap? 'Cuz they're not now . . . I suppose at one time, Torres or Gerrard were only worth about 6 million (when they were about twelve, I'd guess) -- but by citing players who were signed cheaply and then sold to mega-rich clubs when their worth was obvious to everyone, I'm not sure what the argument is. Liverpool have to sign borderline players and hope they pay off? For everyone Coopsie mentioned there are probably half a dozen who've washed out, right?

Liverpool and Benitez are under a lot of pressure to sign players who are world-class right now because the difference between successful and unsuccesful is so fine. That makes everything harder -- and more expensive.

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While I'm not familiar with Top Shop, exactly, the principle seems clear enough, and Darren's got a point. As for the examples Coopsie lays out, I'm not sure I followed all the logic (undoubtedly my fault). Is the idea that at one time those players were cheap? 'Cuz they're not now . . . I suppose at one time, Torres or Gerrard were only worth about 6 million (when they were about twelve, I'd guess) -- but by citing players who were signed cheaply and then sold to mega-rich clubs when their worth was obvious to everyone, I'm not sure what the argument is. Liverpool have to sign borderline players and hope they pay off? For everyone Coopsie mentioned there are probably half a dozen who've washed out, right?

What's with the little digs Xembla? "Undoubtably my fault", "When they were about twelve, I'd guess".. I don't see how what I said is so hard to understand. I'll make it simpler for you if you like.........

There's players out there that are already good enough, Valencia, Samba, Palacios, Hangeland.... They would all be of benefit to Liverpool at this moment in time. They were all purchased for pathetically small sums by Wigan, Blackburn, Fulham etc, they would now all fetch double figures in the millions, in the transfer market.. Heck, even Aaron Lennon only cost Spurs £1million ;)

NONE of them have been made into good players by their respective clubs, they came straight in and were instantly linked with the likes of Man Utd, Arse-anal and Chelski. Therefore, there ARE class players out there that can be picked up for peanuts, those clubs mentioned obviously have a better network of scouts than the likes of the so called 'big clubs'..

Lastly, Darren is NOT fighting anything single handed. He and I have been having a perfectly amicable discussion about the American cancer within LFC, NONE of the players I've mentioned have been "borderline", as you describe them..

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No digs, Coopsie! I meant that 1) any error in my understanding was my fault; 2) I was making a joke about how much G&T would be worth today -- obviously it wasn't too successful.

And I wasn't suggesting that "fighting" was a bad thing -- I could have said "St. Darren is bantering this one all on his own." It doesn't mean I think you and Gillo are picking on him, just that the other Liverpool fans on the forum seem to have gone all quiet.

I wasn't implying anything about you, Coopsie -- some of us just aren't very good at the banter! :smiley20:

Maybe I just disagree about the players you name, or about the timing of their valuations; I continue to have sympathy for Rafa in the transfer market where his addition must always be accompanied by subtraction, and that's created problems. And that is down to the incompetent owners, no question. They got in over their heads, and now we're all stuck. :(

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