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With all of this talk about there being too many teams in the combination league and the annual fixture backlog, I am curious as to whether anybody is actually going to formally approach the league (at a meeting or in writing or whatever) and suggest a reduction to 18 for the 2009/10 season?

It was suggested on another thread that it is possible to do so this year by not replacing Perranporth (if promoted) and Ludgvan (if relegated).

Anybody?

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Guest Peppermint

I can't see all clubs backing the reduction of teams in the league. I would not think Newquay will - the Reserve team players finished their fixtures last Thursday and had not had a game before that for three weeks.

I am sure they would have welcomed some more fixtures at the end of the season.

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What two clubs would propose and second that proposal to put towards the AGM for discussion. Which clubs would be mercanery enough to do that?

They just could not propose that and it would happen strait away, it would have to be agreed at the AGM and then the action carried out at the end of the following season.

They would have to vote for the bottom 2 teams being relegated as a Reserve team might win the league and can't gain promotion, or the Champion's ground was not suitable for SWPL footbaall.

If you were a club representative would you vote that rule in when your team might finish in the bottom 2 the following season. What happens if the bottom 2 the following season were for example, St Agnes and Helston. Could you throw them out as rules are rules once voted and agreed.

Your idea is a non starter. 20 teams is an ideal number especially for the cup competitions. For the League Cup there are 4 prelim games followed by 8 1st round matches, etc. For the Sup Cup there are 4 prelim games followed by the Q-F's.

Perhaps one rule change was that all clubs must accept that they play under flood lights if fixtured. The teams with floodlights to play away at weekends and home midweek. Most of the clubs who have floodlights don't load their teams with 1st teamers for midweek games as the other clubs fear.

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I can't see all clubs backing the reduction of teams in the league. I would not think Newquay will - the Reserve team players finished their fixtures last Thursday and had not had a game before that for three weeks.

I am sure they would have welcomed some more fixtures at the end of the season.

That's arguably owing to poor fixturing isn't it Peppermint? They were fixtured far too many games early in the season (evening games as they had lights) so as to avoid the inevitable rush of fixtures at the end of the season. In a sense it worked but it was taken to the extreme meaning that they had a huge gap between games.

What two clubs would propose and second that proposal to put towards the AGM for discussion. Which clubs would be mercanery enough to do that?

They just could not propose that and it would happen strait away, it would have to be agreed at the AGM and then the action carried out at the end of the following season.

They would have to vote for the bottom 2 teams being relegated as a Reserve team might win the league and can't gain promotion, or the Champion's ground was not suitable for SWPL footbaall.

If you were a club representative would you vote that rule in when your team might finish in the bottom 2 the following season. What happens if the bottom 2 the following season were for example, St Agnes and Helston. Could you throw them out as rules are rules once voted and agreed.

Your idea is a non starter. 20 teams is an ideal number especially for the cup competitions. For the League Cup there are 4 prelim games followed by 8 1st round matches, etc. For the Sup Cup there are 4 prelim games followed by the Q-F's.

Perhaps one rule change was that all clubs must accept that they play under flood lights if fixtured. The teams with floodlights to play away at weekends and home midweek. Most of the clubs who have floodlights don't load their teams with 1st teamers for midweek games as the other clubs fear.

And there is me thinking that you were a believer in promotion and relegation, CTB?

It's not a question of being mercenary. Nearly everybody moans about the fixture congestion and the long distances travelled for evening games etc. A reduction in numbers would alleviate, or at least help towards alleviating the problem/issue.

2nd paragraph: Why? If Perranporth get promoted and Ludgvan get relegated then why accept any new teams? There is no obligation to.

4th paragraph: Yes CTB, I would. If I was attached to a club then I would propose and/or vote for this. If you finish bottom then you should go down. Otherwise the league goes stale and doesn't improve. With no relegation you end up with a team, no offence to Ludgvan, having one point to show for a whole seasons effort. You have to agree that it is no good. Admittedly it would be harsh this season on the likes of Troon etc if they meet the grading requirements not to get promoted, but it would be better for junior clubs in the long run as the combo would no longer be a closed shop. If you're guaranteed at least one relegation per season then there is at least one new spot for a deserving junior side each season. Obviously there will always be problems as the junior side may not meet the requirement for the next step, but in those circumstances you could opt to keep the losing team. But why deny a junior club with the correct set-up a chance just because the bottom team is well liked or is seen as guaranteed points!

5th paragraph: My idea? Not really, but I support it. I would argue against your point that 20 teams is an ideal number. Look at the remaining fixtures. Perranporth, Perranwell, Helston - in fact most teams all have a whole load of games left or have been playing 3/4 times a week to get the number down. Penzance don't have a fixture pile up so I don't expect you to see my point. Your reserves didn't play in the senior cup, and winning a couple of league cup matches meant you avoided a supplementary cup fixture. You also, like Newquay, have had gaps in play due to your evening games being played.

6th paragraph: I'd much sooner there were no evening games. Saturday football is an institution. Midweek football is a pain, especially considering peoples work/family/other commitments. Nobody cares about first teamers or 'loading up', that's what reserves are for, players stepping up or stepping down depending on form/fitness etc. You could take that one step further and apply it to the league - better teams get promoted, poor teams get relegated.

The league will only ever grow stronger if you weed out the weakest teams and replace them with strong junior outfits that deserve their shot at being senior. Without relegation, or promotion out of the combo in some instances, the likes of Holmans , Porthleven, Portreath, St Day etc, all good teams, would not be in the league and there places would be occupied by teams fighting it out for 19th spot each year.

CTB, I understand that there will of course always be problems. As you suggest a teams ground may not be good enough for promotion, or they may not apply for or take promotion, but that doesn't mean that you can't relegate the bottom side, does it?

20 teams is too many, especially for non reserve teams who have good cup runs. It's about time the clubs actually grew some cahones and voted to make these changes and improve the league!

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I have no problem with promotion or relegation to and from the Combo at the top and bottom.

The problem is the team that wins the combo does not have to take promotion. Do you think if Perranwell won the Combo they should automatically be promoted to the SWPL? That's the problem. Would that mean there should be an extra club relegated from the Combo that season?

It makes it difficult season to season. If a team like Porthleven can win the SWPL Div 1 West and not go for promotion why insist a Combo team has to.

During the last few years several teams have joined and left the Combo so you can't claim it's a closed shop. It used to be but not so much now.

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Valid points, CTB. All duly noted.

I would agree that you can't force promotion on somebody but relegation is a different story. If nobody was promoted into the SWPL then still only one team would be relegated, it just means that there is only the one place up for grabs rather than the two.

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Below are the Combo Rules regarding promotion to and relegation from the league.

APPENDIX A - CRITERIA FOR DECIDING RELEGATION AND PROMOTION ISSUES WITH FEEDER LEAGUES

RELEGATION

1. Each season the bottom two teams in the Cornwall combination League would be liable to be relegated, should one or two teams be eligible for promotion.

2. Any teams relegated would go into the geographically appropriate League's top division and seasonal adjustments between the Falmouth/Helston and Mining Division Leagues would be made if needed: these matters to be determined by the Joint Liaison Committee (JLC)

3. If a relegated Combination League Club already has a team in the top division of the Feeder League into which they are to be relegated, then the existing team would have to be withdrawn.

PROMOTION

1. The top three Clubs in each Feeder League would be considered for promotion.

2. One Club from each Feeder League would be eligible for promotion providing they meet the Criteria for Admission to the Cornwall Combination League.

3. No reserves team of existing Combination League members will be eligible.

CONDITIONS

1. Any Club seeking promotion must apply to THEIR OWN LEAGUE by January 7th of the current season. Initial ground grading by their own League completed by February 7th.

2. Feeder Leagues recommend Clubs who have met criteria by February 14th.

3. Clubs confirm application in writing to Combination League, with £25 fee, by February 14th.

4. Ground inspection to be carried out by Combination League by March 14th.

5. By March 31st Feeder Leagues informed by Combination League of Clubs which have met all the criteria.

6. All or any improvements/work required to be carried out to secure promotion to be completed by Clubs, inspected and passed by the Combination League by May 31st.

JOINT LIAISON COMMITTEE

1. A Joint Liaison Committee consisting of three representatives of each League will administer and make decisions regarding matters of relegation and promotion.

2. The Chairman and Secretary of each League, plus one other member shall comprise the Joint Liaison Committee.

3. The Chairman of the Cornwall Combination League shall be the Chairman of the Joint Liaison Committee and the Secretary of the Cornwall Combination League shall be the convenor of such meetings as are necessary.

So existing rules state that either or both the bottom two teams can be relegated from the Combo. It also states up to six clubs could be in the running for promotion to the Combo of which one from each league could possibly be promoted.

It's not the Combo's fault clubs don't apply to join or their facilities are not up to scratch.

Below are the rules for a ground

30. GROUNDS AND FACILITIES

(a) The ground must give an overall appearance and the impression of being able to stage football at senior level.

All pitches to be marked in accordance with current F.A. regulations in regards to dimensions and marking compounds. N.B. Neither lime or creosote are permitted.

c) The Club must either

(i) own the freehold of the ground, or

(ii) have the ground on a leasehold agreement, or

(iii) possess and acceptable licence for the use of the ground.

(d) The Club is to be responsible for ensuring proper maintenance of the pitch and the general maintenance of the ground.

(e) All four sides of the pitch should be suitably enclosed to limit spectators access to the pitch.

(f) Separate changing rooms to be available for both teams and match officials.

(g) Showering facilities to be available for teams and match officials.

(h) Male and female toilet facilities must be available for players, match officials and spectators.

(i) Trainers Boxes (Dug-outs) must be provided for both teams to accommodate managers, coaches, first-aiders and substitutes.

(j) A stretcher and comprehensive first-aid kit must be available for both players and spectators.

(k) All Clubs will have a currently qualified first-aider in attendance at all matches.

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Thanks for that, CTB, that's very interesting.

We have strayed a little though from the original question. Does it state in the rules that there has to be 20 clubs? Or would it be possible, going through the right channels of course, to reduce the numbers to 18 for the 09/10 season?

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not sure about changing the number of teams in the league but i agree with bharvey on a couple of points

1. the bottom should always be relegated and the better junior clubs given the chance to be promoted . for instance if perranporth go up this season still relegate ludgvan and promote troon and fal ath if they meet the criteria

2 i also agree about evening games i would prefer to play as few of them as possible. without doubt it is a advantage to those teams with first teams in the peninsula leagues . for example if newquay had five players out due to work commitments they will use peninsula players if portreath have the same problem that night they have to use mining division two players . that is a big advantage and before people say no rules are broken i agree there are no rules broken but why play that game in midweek and then have no game the following saturday which seems to happen

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If the clubs were inclined to try and get a reduction then this season would be an ideal oppotunity.

Perranporth are going to get promoted and Ludgvan relegated and no one is to be relegated from the CSWPL and the last I heard the clubs applying to come in all have problems meeting the criteria (there may have been developments so i could be wrong) so that would leave 18 clubs maybe it would make for a closer season all the way up the league. If it doesn't work, the team relegated from CSWPL and someone applying to come in would make it back up to 20.

I'm still in favour of having a cornwall reserve league i'e all the peninsula reserve sides in one league and then the rest of the ECL and JCCL could be split into 2 divisions with promotion to the CSWPL available to the winners.

Would hopefully stop clubs loading up at the end of the season, and I think that if you haven't played 4 games for a combination side by transfer deadline day then you can't play for the remainder of the season.

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Surely this could be settled with a division 1 and 2 in the Combination league similar to to the ECPL set up with reduced teams in each league. Cricket do this very well with an east west split of seven divisions. I think this was a missed opotunity when the Pyramid system was brought in. If ludgvan go down this year they could then compete in Division 2 and retain senior staus

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Assuming Perranporth get promoted they will bizzarly play 6 less league fixtures in SWP next season! You are supposed to play more fixtures the higher the level.

I don't believe anyone is suggesting less Saturday Combo fixtures. An 18 club league would simply mean 4 less mid-week games for clubs, which has some merit.

As for the league cup, 4 clubs would play in the preliminary round, with the two winners joining the other 14 clubs in the first round. Supplementary cup could also be run being the 10 clubs not making the 2nd round, so potentially one less cup game for some clubs.

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I hope the Combo never make the mistake of following the awful reduction of matches caused in the East by dividing the ECPL and bringing in teams from Devon. 20 is the right number of clubs, but following the true principle of senior football by banning reserve teams and sending the SWPL reserve clubs to compete in their own league would create promotion opportunities for good junior clubs and overcome the persistent loading of midweek teams with SWPL players. Those SWPL clubs never play Helston in midweek, of course, because the Fixture Secretary has his favourites.

Heard a good story at the weekend about him being a dab hand at knocking nails through pipes, as well. The fine central defender whose facilities were flooded was lucky that his family was not drowned. Time for Roberts to retire from plumbing and fixturing ! If the club representatives had the courage of their convictions they'd no-confidence him at the AGM, but it won't happen because a majority haven't !!!.....and those that have get banned from meetings !!! :c::drink: :D

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