Jump to content
Cornwall Football Forum

Cornwall Senior Cup Final 08/09


Recommended Posts

Fantastic last 30 mins, and a dramatic win for the 'Lillywhites'.

I would dedicate the win to the Committee of St.Austell FC who have endured some lean times at Poltair Park for several seasons and to have had to put up with seeing their nearest rivals scoop the trophies in the Trevor Mewton era. To Peter Beard, John Elliott, Digger Rowe, Brian and Jason Powell, Trevor Ternouth and all the rest. You deserved yesterday, most people would have walked away from the club but you are St.Austell.FC. Yesterday was for you. Brilliant. :clapper::clapper::clapper::clapper::clapper::clapper: :clapper:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 107
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Guest Peppermint

Dave - I certainly criticised the officials in my posting and I certainly thought it was an exciting game and a big improvement some of the more recent finals.

I thought that the referees in both finals had poor games - perhaps the occasion was too much for them!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all Dan, when will you ever say anything good about St Austell?!!! And cornishbaggie.......jog on.

Right my goal.....the keeper (who I thought had a very good game) had the ball in 1 hand held upright, I was behind him walking back when I thought hes only got 1 hand on the ball so I headed it out if his hand and knocked it into the net.

I thought if the keeper only had 1 hand on the ball, you were allowed to knock it out of his hands?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I spoke to a ref today and he said that the goal should (and did) be awarded as Kenny only had the ball in his palm of one hand which was true as i was in line with the incident!! so i stand to be corrected!! sporting maybe not but its only a game and Kenny will live with that for an awful long time :c:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As has been stated on another posting thread .......................

"A goalkeeper is not permitted to keep control of the ball in his hands

for more than six seconds. A goalkeeper is considered to be in control

of the ball:

• while the ball is between his hands or between his hand and any

surface (e.g. ground, own body)

while holding the ball in his outstretched open hand

• while in the act of bouncing it on the ground or tossing it into the air

Was he holding the ball, or was the ball resting on his hand! :D The inquest goes on. What a shame a referee can't come on here and clear the matter up for once and all.

If a ref would please like to e-mail me in confidence to clarify things, please feel free - davedeacon@cornishsoccer.info

To Peppermint .... yep I appreciate you did comment on the same - we were writing at the same time I think! Thanks :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ref is a chimp clearly set on digging himself further into trouble. Before he tries to defend himself then he should first check with the rules of the game as found on the FIFA website. He could also learn something from reading the following.

Playing the Ball in the Goalkeeper's Possession

This article is designed to help make referees and players aware of what constitutes goalkeeper possession and what opponents may and may not do when the goalkeeper has possession.

What Does "Possession” Mean?

While the ball is in the possession of the goalkeeper, it cannot be played by an opponent. Any attempt to do so may be punished by a direct free kick. "In the possession of the goalkeeper" is defined as the goalkeeper having the ball trapped between one hand and a surface (which may include the other hand, the ground, a goalpost, or the keeper's own body). International Board Decision Two of Law 12 emphasizes that the hand includes any part of the hand or arm. However, as stated in the Advice to Referees on the Laws of the Game (Advice 12.16 and 12.17), the goalkeeper is also considered to be in possession of the ball while bouncing it on the ground or while throwing it into the air. Possession is given up if, while throwing the ball into the air, it is allowed to strike the ground.

Once the goalkeeper has gained possession (also known as "control") of the ball, an opponent may not interfere with or block the goalkeeper's distribution of the ball. For example, players have a right to maintain a position achieved during the normal course of play, but they may not try to block the goalkeeper's movement while he or she is holding the ball and trying to distribute it. Nor may opposing players do anything to hinder, interfere with, or block a goalkeeper who is throwing or punting the ball back into play. The goalkeeper has already gained possession and is granted up to six seconds to release the ball back into play by other players. A goalkeeper in the act of distributing the ball may not be challenged under these circumstances. (This includes trying to head a ball out of the goalkeeper's open hand or playing a ball being bounced or tossed into the air by the goalkeeper.) An opponent does not violate the Law, however, if that player takes advantage of a ball clearly released by the goalkeeper directly to him or her, in his or her direction, or deflecting off him or her nonviolently.

Saltash were cheated out of victory, end of story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The linesman who was on the side nearest the gate was the ref at our game this evening, i asked him about the incident and he said he was running up the touchline to get in line with the last defender and did not see anything but the ball on the floor, the 4th ref said that the goalie threw the ball to the floor and the ref did not see anything wrong! But i did and the ball was in the control of the goalkeeper albeit on his palm and he never threw the ball on the floor! so the 4th ref was telling a porky!!

And just to add that St Austell supporters were disgusting at the abuse they were giving out ! :SM_carton:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did the officials wear their "respect" armbands? :o

Well they were wearing them, but should have been wearing inflated ones so they didn't sink! and why did they not run the other line where it was not really muddy? It was like running a cross country course! green grass on the other side!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think as far as the referee and his assistant are concerned if they did not see an infringement occur then they cannot give a free kick, even if they presume they know what happened.

There were three St. Austell goals so even if one was illegal but that still equals a draw so no complaints to the comeback.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well done to all connected with snozzle,the usual idots are on here giving there views on thinghs which cannot be changed once that final whistle blows. how many people were taught play to the whistle,did it blow no well then goal counts right or wrong DEAL WITH IT. No doubt everyone has been on the end of a dubious decision but you have to get on with,they were still losing when the goal was scored so lets give them credit for the comeback,after all this is a FOOTBALL forum and not about football rules and politics, gazza wheildon is still a class act glad to see hes back at a decent standard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

turns, you are missing the point or simply burying your head in the sand. St Austell's first goal should not have counted and it is highly probable that Saltash would have continued to control the game and gone on to win. The illegal goal was a critical turning point in the game. The dynamics changed and the momentum swung in St Austell's favour. I wish St Austell well but their victory is tarnished with the bitter taste of injustice.

tynan's dad, the ref did see what happened according to kempy's earlier posting. "I spoke to a ref today and he said that the goal should (and did) be awarded as Kenny only had the ball in his palm of one hand which was true as i was in line with the incident!!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes i spoke to a ref today who said the goal should stand , but after reading what Deac's posted with the bible it should not have but if neither ref or lino saw anything then i am a tad confused! surely one of the 4 should have been looking at what was going on when the ball was in play?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it stood snozzle won it happened before with dibble and clough may not be right but you could argue forever, if saltash were dominating how come the chance arose surely the favourites should have kept there composure and saw the game out job done 2 1 win or were the other 2 illegal aswel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think it's a case of suggesting any current player, or former player, wouldn't have tried the same as what Dan did. Good luck to him for the bare-faced cheek and to St Austell for going on and making the most of things.

I think it's the frustration that the 4 officials all missed it!

So much frustration that one individual, who regrettably is not a Forum member, sent me his comments today by e-mail. Let's hear them:

"Marc Oldaker was the man in black for the senior cup final and refereed the game with a face resembling a bulldog chewing a wasp. So sour was his demeanour.

He was somewhat military in his approach and spoke down to people and I feel that he alone was responsible for St Austell winning the Cup. Please don’t get me wrong, I don’t believe either side should have won on the day and whilst it wasn’t the greatest of games played in persistent rain, it was entertaining and maybe a replay would have been right.

The decision to allow Dan Nancarrow’s goal was a travesty as I believe that neither him or any of his linesmen were looking at the incident. This goal knocked the stuffing out of Saltash and allowed the Lilywhites back into this game which until then they looked to have lost. To their credit, St Austell had their tails up and went on to score two more but Mr Oldaker did make himself look very foolish and I believe he will regret his decision.

Minutes after this incident, Mr Oldaker turned down what looked to everyone else to be a stonewall penalty for Saltash after Lee Whetters felled Glenn Palmer. Mr Oldaker though had other ideas and booked Palmer for diving. Maybe the decision was just too big for him.

Oldaker got as much wrong in this game as he did right, he spent far too long lecturing players, cautioned players for fouls and then didn’t take any action when similar offences were committed and to cap it all, Toby Clark of Saltash and Dan Nancarrow of St Austell went head to head and I mean forehead to forehead like a couple of strutting stags and again, no action taken by a referee who by then, looked somewhat out of his depth.

St Austell’s Will Tinsley was no more than 5 yards away from the referee and screamed words at him, result – no action. Lee Doel of Saltash was already on a caution when he launched himself at an opponent. Many around thought he was heading for a straight red, a yellow would have been his second and the result the same – dismissed, but Mr Oldaker again had other ideas and TOOK NO ACTION.

Maybe the occasion was too big for him. Maybe the game was more than he could handle. Whatever the reason – Mr Oldaker was a very big disappointment and probably on the day, was St Austell’s best player."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

may be the ref didnt have the best of games but with some of the points raised may be for a change a ref used common sense rather than handing out cards willy nilly considering the conditions, how many times do you read the ref ruined a game through being card happy,THEY CANT WIN but you will still moan when there arent any there to officiate

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest plainmoor

Good god, this was a step 6 V step 7 match. For christ's sake why do they always have to have a referee that operates at step 4 for a senior cup final? there are plenty of good step 6 refs around, another cockup by Brown and the CCFA.

Seen Oldaker ref at Truro a couple of times, I found him to be very indifferent verging on the side of laughable most of the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Get a life you lot. Maybe the ref made a mistake but it won't be the first or last made (like most people in the ground I expect, I had a Wenger moment and genuinely didn't see it). However I don't think anyone can say st.Austell didn't deserve their win - well done again lads you've been brilliant all season.

Also, fed up with people knocking the St.Austell support. They were noisy and supported the team even when behind. Many of those behind the goal were second team players who have been involved with the club for several seasons. Quite a few are also committee members and have worked bloody hard behind the scenes for the last 2 or 3 years (even when the first team were rubbish) along with other club stalwarts and they deserve their day....no doubt most like me have paid for it since with a monster hangover.

Well done Town - forget the knockers and usual moaners - it's our Cup and we thoroughly deserve it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you guys have got it wrong! We're not knocking St Austell, we're not saying you didn't deserve your win, we're not suggesting Dan "cheated", and we're certainly not jealous or belittling the achievement! We all remember the perilous position St Austell were in only a couple of seasons ago and so in fact, in contrast, we can only congratulate the Easter Monday success.

However, and apologies for the repetition, but in this day and age when we are encouraged to give the match officials nothing but respect, how can all four of them make such a howler?

Here's a view from a current referee who has been brave enough to give me his opinion on the match-changing incident. Yes "match-changing", although St Austell went onto score two more goals, nothing will change my mind that the goal that shouldn't have been, changed the final destination of the Cornwall Senior Cup trophy for at least the next twelve months!

"I would have awarded a free-kick and booked Nanks for unsporting behaviour.

The question has already been answered by yourselves and others in that the keeper had control. I've no doubt about that and indeed Nanks has confessed.

Clearly Mark Oldaker didn't see it. If he did, I am sure he would have dealt with it.

It does beg the question however, why didn't Paul Windle see it? He is is a former Level 3 referee e.g. the same as Mark Oldaker now and lined at a much higher level than the Cornwall Senior Cup. I've always been told that when the keeper has the ball in hand and an attacker is hanging around, wait around yourself so that you are in a creditable position to give a decision, if required.

It also begs another question, was Mark running backwards when the keeper took control of the ball? If he wasn't, an assessor would have picked that up!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No he never ran backwards all the second half as he was on my side! but if you had seen what he had to run in ( very muddy and wet) i don't think i would either!! On that note why did not the linesman say to the ref why dont we run the other side of the pitch as the ref would have to change where he should be looking for his assistant! It is such a shame that some games especially a final have to have contensious issues? :c:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No he never ran backwards all the second half as he was on my side! but if you had seen what he had to run in ( very muddy and wet) i don't think i would either!! On that note why did not the linesman say to the ref why dont we run the other side of the pitch as the ref would have to change where he should be looking for his assistant! It is such a shame that some games especially a final have to have contensious issues? :c:

In my opinion it is things like this that makes football such a great game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No he never ran backwards all the second half as he was on my side! but if you had seen what he had to run in ( very muddy and wet) i don't think i would either!! On that note why did not the linesman say to the ref why dont we run the other side of the pitch as the ref would have to change where he should be looking for his assistant! It is such a shame that some games especially a final have to have contensious issues? :c:

In my opinion it is things like this that makes football such a great game.

You would as you are from St Austell! :c:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No he never ran backwards all the second half as he was on my side! but if you had seen what he had to run in ( very muddy and wet) i don't think i would either!! On that note why did not the linesman say to the ref why dont we run the other side of the pitch as the ref would have to change where he should be looking for his assistant! It is such a shame that some games especially a final have to have contensious issues? :c:

In my opinion it is things like this that makes football such a great game.

You would as you are from St Austell! :c:

:lol:

I do think having long discussions in the ground, pub or forum about refereeing decisions are great and would miss it if they were erradicated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No he never ran backwards all the second half as he was on my side! but if you had seen what he had to run in ( very muddy and wet) i don't think i would either!! On that note why did not the linesman say to the ref why dont we run the other side of the pitch as the ref would have to change where he should be looking for his assistant! It is such a shame that some games especially a final have to have contensious issues? :c:

In my opinion it is things like this that makes football such a great game.

You would as you are from St Austell! :c:

:lol:

I do think having long discussions in the ground, pub or forum about refereeing decisions are great and would miss it if they were erradicated.

But maybe we are sad gits? :c:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find all you lot quite funny on here to be honest.. Nothing but moan and complain about whats happened! End of the day... take yourselves back to devon with your loser medals, dry your tears, and we'll carry on celebrating a great victory with that trophy sitting proud behind the bar!! yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!! :smiley20:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

to cap it all, Toby Clark of Saltash and Dan Nancarrow of St Austell went head to head and I mean forehead to forehead like a couple of strutting stags

I know who my money would be on to Father the next herd of Deer, no disrespects nanks. ;) Toby 'the best door fixer' Clark

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was handbags between me and Clarky, we went head to head that was it, no hands raised, we shook hands when called over by the ref who gave us a good talking to, end of.

And the ref was totally right in booking Palmer, it was never a penalty in a million years. And me a cheat? Im alot of things but a cheat I am not!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pity that St Austell had to win the cup by "cheating". As much as it "sticks in the throats" of anyone concerned with Saltash United, I am sure that the players/officials of St Austell would have rather win the trophy without "cheating".

In all my years of watching Cornwall Senior Cup Finals, I have never witnessed such yobbish drunkeness as shown by some of the St Austell supporters. As they say, "when the alcohol goes in, the brain goes out".

THESE COMMENTS ARE MINE AND NOT NECESSARILY THOSE OF SALTASH UNITED.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the word "cheating" is appropriate here pastyman. I think that Nanks fully believed that he acted within the rules of the game at the time of the goal.

I have to admit that my interpretation of the rules (right or wrong) was that the ball was fair game if the keeper only had one hand on it.

If the goal hadn't been given I could still have seen St Austell levelling the game and probably forcing a replay. They just seemed to have more determination than Saltash.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Sport Lover

Cheating is trying to con the ref - eg diving, feining injury, appealing when you know you committed the offence etc

Everything else is breaking the rules which the ref and his team should pick up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your right Sport Lover... Cheating is when a player dive's... which is why the Saltash striker was given a yellow card for falling down holding his ankle in our box when our player was about 2 yards away... cheating is also when players purposely stand right next to, and in front of the goalkeeper as he's about to kick the ball, cheating is also shouting right next to a player just as they are about to kick the ball, which happened to me on a couple of occasions, but hey... pasty man must have missed all of those. Dry your tears and GET OVER IT!! The trophy has taken its rightful spot in our club!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In all my years of watching Cornwall Senior Cup Finals, I have never witnessed such yobbish drunkeness as shown by some of the St Austell supporters. As they say, "when the alcohol goes in, the brain goes out".

Pastyman me thinks you need to get your facts right 1st before you come on here stating that it was St Austell fans whom were drunk and yobbish (please clarify what you mean by this), yes there were some drunk spectators watching the game as there was only you and a dog from Saltash then your bound to think it was St Austell fans.

If you had watched the 1st game you would of wittnessed Falmouth Ath And St Dennis fans drinking and ENJOYING themselves.

Of which the St Austell fans were doing as thier team were on there way to winning the SENIOR CUP !!!!!!!!!!

You need to get a LIFE !!!!!!!!

:drink::drink: :drink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello St A 2nds.

Anyone with even half a brain would have gathered that the individuals who were drinking from beer cans, bottles of beer and wine bottles were in fact supporting St Austell. If they were not supporting St Austell, why were they chanting for St Austell.

I am not at all impressed by your infantile comments, it totally demonstrates your lack of intellect.

If by behaving themselves is a crime, I am sure the Saltash United supporters will not mind being guilty of that.

St Blazey F C are also guilty for allowing alcohol to be brought into the stadia and should be punished for this. It is breaking Football Association rules, by allowing alcohol to be consumed within football stadia.

THESE ARE MY THOUGHTS AND NOT NECESSARILY THOSE OF SALTASH UNITED

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest oldhat

I really think it's time that this thread was put to bed. I see no point in Nanks, or anyone else for that matter, coming on here and telling us how he would have reacted if a Saltash player had done the same. St.Austell won the game and congratulations to them. It's been a long time coming and they should be very proud and enjoy the moment. There are moments of controversy in most games of football and they could be debated ad infinitum, but if you think a St.Austell player is going to come on here and say "O.K., Saltash deserved to win, we cheated", then you are deluded. When these decisions go against you it hurts, but when they go for you, they dont. To call Nanks a cheat is unfair and simply serves to make you look a fool. Anyone who knows Nanks will tell you that he's not a cheat. So, snozzel boys, well done, and dont get dragged into pointless tit-for-tat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one can really blame the St Austell fans for getting carried away. It looked like most were young local men out for a good time and who can blame them? Better control by St Blazey may have led to less evidence of alcohol being consumed and a better controlled crowd. Personally, I would have preferred for the “behind the goal fans” to have curbed their language more as it was a small venue with football supporters of both sexes and all ages in contrast to a professional setting where bad language seems to be more tolerated. I would also have preferred the St Austell faithful to have been more respectful to the opposition and in particular the Saltash keeper but again young men fuelled with alcohol can get carried away and you would have to point the finger at the hosts for having no control of this. Perhaps just one policeman in uniform could have calmed things to an acceptable level but I don’t think one was present. Maybe the CCFA should look at this for the future.

Let’s give Nancarrow the benefit of the doubt but even then I am pretty confident he couldn’t have believed his luck as he made his way back to the half way line. As previously highlighted the finger of blame sticks firmly in the ribs of the ref on this matter.

The CCFA, St Blazey AFC and especially the ref in my mind on that day could have done better.

By the way Leaner, you are either a wind up or disillusioned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...