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Guest Bullard

Argyle fan, I think you have your levels mixed up.

The teams you have mentioned have not applied to join the SWPL - they have applied to join the respective regional divisions

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Bullard - I think you will find that the name of the league is the Carlsberg South West Peninsula League, and as this is a bit of a mouthfull it gets abbreviated to CSWPL.

My reference was to the league as a whole and not, as I think you have wrongly assumed, to the premier division.

My second post was made in response to 'handball' who seemed unsure that Perranporth is in Cornwall.

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Ok, let's just try and make this a little clearer:

Applications made to join SWPL Premier:

Callington Town, Newquay, Penzance & St Austell (from SWPL West). These clubs are currently in 9th, 4th, 2nd and 3rd respectively. Top club Porthleven have NOT applied for promotion.

Bovey Tracey, Exeter Civil Service, Galmpton Gents, Royal Marines & Stoke Gabriel (from SWPL East). These clubs are currently in 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 10th and 1st respectively.

Applications made to join SWPL West/East:

Perranporth (1st in Cornwall Combination) and Bickleigh, Exmouth Amateurs, Feniton and Topsham Town (currently 7th, 2nd, 5th, and 4th in Devon and Exeter League premier division).

A real shame to see Port not taking any interest, but perhaps if Penzance become an established SWPL Premier team, Portleven will find the prospect of a local derby with Penzance at a higher level too hard to resist!

NO applications have been made for promotion out of the SWPL to the Western League.

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Handball - apologies if my original post was not pedantic enough for you.

My first line stated that 4 clubs had applied for promotion from division one west. This would be for promotion into the premier division.

My second line stated that only Perranporth had applied to join from Cornwall. As Perranporth are not currently members of the South West Peninsula League I would have thought that it was blindingly obvious that they were the only team from Cornwall who had applied to join the South West Peninsula League.

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Mark Jones - My understanding is that a team needs to finish first or second in 1 West or 1 East. They then must have applied by March 1st, ie those clubs detailed in DanBlazey's post. Then they must pass the ground citeria.

Assuming teams finishing first & second both satisfy all requirements then the team finishing first would be promoted.

If the team finishing first does not satisfy the criteria - eg if Porthleven finish first they would fail the criteris as they haven't applied - then the team finishing second would be promoted.

As I say, this is my understanding of the position.

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Guest The Judge aka RED OR DEAD

Can anyone explain what the 'ground criteria' is for those who have applied for promotion ?

I cant see any problems with Mount Wise or Penlee Park but what about Poltair and Marshfield.

Will clubs know in advance if the grounds are acceptable or not ? Will clubs go into the last game of the season (May 1st in our case) not knowing (if they have enough points) if can they are going up, surely clubs will be looking to arrange promotion parties in advance, just in case.

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Judge, I think you can safely say, its clear as mud!!

Please dont allow anymore poor grounds into the premier division.

We can really do without another Ivybridge to visit.

As for Port....well, i hope they fall away and some other team win the league and get promotion. What a waste of time else. The jump from West to Premier cannot be that great surly???? :blink:

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Guest Sport Lover

I was going to post something about portleven not having the ambition to take promotion if they are in a promotion spot, but I cant be bothered cos its the same every year, boring.

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Guest The Judge aka RED OR DEAD

I'm going to have to speak up for Port on this one (well for this season anyway). Having spoken with the Port officials, whilst enjoying their wonderful hospitality, it was explained, that they just don't have the budget for the Prem.

Crowds are down, clubhouse takings down, sponsors cutting back, all points that a lot of clubs will understand too well. They also have a lot of local players who love playing for Port but don't fancy spending hours on the road every other weekend.

It is easier if you have the money that PZ still seem to have, perhaps the plug will be pulled before the end of the season and the club turn down promotion if they are in the position to take it.

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Porthleven have never been interested in promotion since the league was formed, nothing to do with the budget etc. Porthleven will be the club left behind when locals teams are promoted. How will they survive then ? If they win the league or come second they should be denied the prize money. Why should a club who finishes 3rd, gets promoted and not get any prize money because the teams above refused to go up.

The whole idea of the league was promotion and relegation. If Penzance and St Austell go up they will benefit with bigger crowds, means more money coming through. This could still happen with Newquay and Callington.

Yes, there is travelling involved. Dartmouth, Cullompton, Witheridge etc having to travel to Penzance on a saturday or even mid week. Yes, financially, times are hard. But Clubs are having to adjust so that they can continue to play in a higher grade as possible

The league will get better and stronger. Teams not interested in being part of the success should leave for pastures new.

Finally, just do not employ Rafa Benetiz as your manager because he will waste your money even more and you will not get anywhere.

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Why has the local interest faded away so quickly at Port?

A drop in crowds of 31% from last season seems absolutely remarkable when you considering they are one of the hot favourites for the title.

It is only a few years ago that I can remember Port bringing literally hundreds to big Senior Cup semi-finals and finals.

Porthleven is one of the few places in Cornwall I consider a proper football town and if a genuine title challenge can't bring in the crowds, what hope for the rest of us?!

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I think you are absolutely right,Sport Lover.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong(I often am) but wasn't the Penninsula League set up precisely for our Clubs to by-pass the Western League Division 1 for promotion to the Premier.It would seem that both Bodmin and Port are not interested in being promoted.This being so,one might be forgiven to ask is the CSWPL really necessary.

I go back to the question Dave Deacon posed during the setting up up of the new League:

"WHO IS GOING TO BENEFIT FROM THIS?" Has this question been answered yet?

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clubs like Port and Penzance will need bigger budgets because of all the travelling.

In my eyes, its the worst thing that could have happened to Cornish Football because of where we are. Its nothing to do with lack of ambition, its to do with lack of money. Clubs like Newquay are nearly an hour further up the road than Port and Penzance.

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Guest Mark Hayman

This being so,one might be forgiven to ask is the CSWPL really necessary.

I go back to the question Dave Deacon posed during the setting up up of the new League:

"WHO IS GOING TO BENEFIT FROM THIS?" Has this question been answered yet?

I know the question was answered many times by the League Secretary previously, however let me spend a few minutes just to refresh your memory about how the SWPL was created.

The Western League were prepared to "cherry pick" the 5 or 6 better clubs from the South Western League and the Devon County League and amalgamate them with their most Westerly clubs in their Division One to make their competition a Premier Division at Step 5 and two lower divisions at Step 6. The intention then of the Western League would have been to let all the remaining clubs drift back into the six feeder Leagues, they were only interested in those clubs at the top, this is a very important point that no one should lose sight of, then OR now.

The Chairmen of the SWL and DCL, the Secretary of the DCL and the Treasurer of the SWL were not prepared to sacrifice the rest of our member clubs and so after consulation with the Football Association we took the bull by the horns in August 2004 and set about forming the SWPL.

So hopefully that clears up your first question Adlestrop, yes it was very necessary to safeguard the future of the so called smaller fish in the ponds of the SWL and DCL and in the five years since we know the people on the committees of our clubs appreciate this point.

Who is going to benefit from this ?

Well to start off with please refer back to the last paragraph about the "non top" clubs in the old SWL and DCL. Now add in Mousehole, Hayle, Wendron United, Camelford, Foxhole Stars, Dobwalls in the first season and then add Truro City Reserves and Godolphin Atlantic in the second season. I would spin off all the Devon sides as well but my main concern is showing who has benefitted in the Dutchy.

We have given those clubs a realistic, smaller step up the pyramid ladder, one that they can handle better than say Goonhavern had to try when they came into the SWL and had to compete with the bigger boys and bigger budgets and sadly they have slipped off the radar as far as Step 7 football is concerned.

Let me also throw in two other clubs, Wadebridge Town and Torpoint Athletic into the equation. Wadebridge immediately embraced everything about the new league, their forward thinking committee and manager pushed for promotion and they achieved their goal, Torpoint have publically stated on more than one occasion that without the new League their dream of floodlights at The Mill would still be in the dark - because quite literally instead of their Reserves at the top of the ECPL, under the Western Leagues proposals, it would now have been their First Team there instead - two more clubs to add to your "who has benefitted" pot.

At the end of the second season as we know Perranporth have applied to come in and Penzance, Newquay, St.Austell and Callington have all applied to move from Step 7 to Step 6. When was the last time the latter two had something in a season to aim for apart from the annual struggle of survival at the bottom ? I have seen Newquay a couple times this season and they have played good football and as we get to the business end of the season here is a club pushing for promotion, best of luck to them and hopefully at some point in the near future they achieve their goal as their friends along the coast at Bodieve Park did twelve months ago. The issue of clubs not taking promotion is frustrating but the Football Association can not force a club to move up - end of.

Adlestrop, hopefully now you can move on a little, finally accept that the SWPL is here to stay and see that the SWL by now would have been history anyhow.

Regards,

Mark Hayman - Vice Chairman

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Guest Man on the Post

Superb response Mark. I think the Officers of the CSWPL have done a fantastic job. :clapper:

The doubters will eventually come round. The situation is probably best summed up by the following quotation:-

It's the same each time with progress. First they ignore you, then they say you're mad, then dangerous, then there's a pause and then you can't find anyone who disagrees with you.

Tony Benn

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Guest Mark Hayman

I respect your views and I am very sure that you are not alone, but hopefully I have answered your original question and maybe, just maybe, you might look at the SWPL in a slightly more encouraging light now. We never have and never will please all of the people all of the time but occasionally I will take the time to answer peoples concerns on this forum if they are put as a constructive observation.

If the Western League plan had come to fruition I accept the Combination and ECPL would have been stronger, point taken. Would that ultimately have been construed as "progress" though ? Progress for the likes of Mousehole, Godolphin Atlantic, Foxhole Stars, Dobwalls being improvements to their grounds etc . . .

Regards,

Mark Hayman

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Guest Mark Hayman

That really would be one for the clubs to answer, not myself. This is going away from your intial question though which has been answered.

Mark Hayman

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Everyone has their own views on the changes to Cornish Football structor and all sides have some valid pionts.

The one thing that everyone conveniently fails to talk about and it is the biggest factor of all when deciding if you push for promotion, is the cost. The step up can involve a massive jump in travelling time and distance and that forces up budgets. This is a time of financial constraints for many clubs and sponsorship will most certainly become tighter in years to come. How many clubs will continue to gamble all on promotion.

Sure you can go out and get access to some lovely grants. The higher you go the more you can get but having nice lights wont pay your bills.

Everyone knows in the present set up the further south west you go in this county the more it will cost to go up. Thats just the maths of it. Thus a natural advantage accrues to clubs the further the other way you go.

All clubs have to consider is the Bank balance before they decide to go up or not. If things should then go wrong you may then find your club is not built on the firm foundations you thought it was. Lose a sponsor, thus follows the budget, then the players and finally the crowd. It soon becomes a downward spiral................

Well done Port for sticking to your guns and not risking all...........................

:thumbsup:

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Everyone has their own views on the changes to Cornish Football structor and all sides have some valid pionts.

The one thing that everyone conveniently fails to talk about and it is the biggest factor of all when deciding if you push for promotion, is the cost. The step up can involve a massive jump in travelling time and distance and that forces up budgets. This is a time of financial constraints for many clubs and sponsorship will most certainly become tighter in years to come. How many clubs will continue to gamble all on promotion.

Sure you can go out and get access to some lovely grants. The higher you go the more you can get but having nice lights wont pay your bills.

Everyone knows in the present set up the further south west you go in this county the more it will cost to go up. Thats just the maths of it. Thus a natural advantage accrues to clubs the further the other way you go.

All clubs have to consider is the Bank balance before they decide to go up or not. If things should then go wrong you may then find your club is not built on the firm foundations you thought it was. Lose a sponsor, thus follows the budget, then the players and finally the crowd. It soon becomes a downward spiral................

Well done Port for sticking to your guns and not risking all...........................

:thumbsup:

Hooray, someone else who can actually see things from a Logistical point of view

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Guest Sport Lover

I can see why people are blaming the bank balance for the lack of promotion prospects but how long will clubs be allowed to use that as an excuse? There cant be a year on year situation where the top teams refuse promotion and the 3rd or 4th club takes it. This will cause stagnation and will not be good for Cornish Football.

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Its not an excuse Dom, its a fact. I think there could well be a year on year situation where clubs refuse promotion, at least over the next few seasons. We are in a reccesion & going from one end of the county to the other every other sat just for a game of football is , financially, very costly & for the standard of football the peninsular league provides, just not worth it. I agree with what Adlestrop said, apart from the top 4 or 5 teams, its no better than the combo league. In my opinion, the peninsular league is the worst thing to happen to cornish football !

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As usual Mr know-it all Rosenburke has indulged in an attempted war of words with the offficials of Porthleven. kevin Richards has rightly spoken up for the club and his points are truly valid, but i'm sure the mouth piece of St Just ( or so he thinks ) will endeavour to verbally display his usual inane drivel on this site.

Even some another person of equallly low intelligence has sprouted forth his opinion on the goings on of Porthleven AFC , namely a person called "Hedgerow " who was probably born under one, and should be fined for his stupid and ill-informed statement . At least " Big Breakfast " has his marbles intact and has looked at the situation with thought, and addressed it without the cynisism that others so obviously think is needed having not one iota of knowledge of the facts surrounding Porthleven,s decision not to try or go for promotion.

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Should be fined for his stupid and ill-informed statement.

I was given to understand this forum gives people the opportunity to voice an opinion, FREEDOM OF SPEECH, in an constructive manner.

But would you not agree "DOF" that players of Porthleven FC should be given the opportunity to represent their Club at a higher level with the possibility of larger Home crowds etc especially against the like of Bodmin, Wadebridge, Saltash St Blazey just to mention a few. as well as the Devon Clubs.

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Guest Sport Lover

I like many others would just like to see proper promotion and relegation as the league was designed to do. The matter wont get resolved as long as players wont take 'pay' cuts to help their clubs out or a big sponsor steps in.

The Cornwall Men's Senior team are playing a match in Plymouth on Sunday, we wont get any wages/expenses/pay, we do it because we love our sport.

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When moving into the Southern League, I will admit that the long distances will affect the pocket of the clubs involved.

I dont however buy into the costs of travelling when moving into the Prem of SWPL.

Of course as documented, there are some big trips but in the grand scheme of turnover generated by players wages, the costs are small in comparison.

Seeing players stay for a drink is often difficult enough at some clubs so are those players prepared to put more effort into their clubs to raise some extra money?

All too often the responsibility of additional fund raising (Other than via normal channels like a social club) falls in the lap of one or two.

Not enough put back into the club by the players. (Not all of course!)

One or two extra fund raising nights and £5 less each week per player will go a long way to subsidising the trips.

Personally I think people are too negative with regard to these away days and should be more open minded.

Clubs are free to decide upon their own futures but IMO if promotion is rejected once, let them keep the league winnings.

A second time within 5 years of the initial rejection however, should see the funds redirected into the clubs prepared to make the bold step up.

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Should be fined for his stupid and ill-informed statement.

I was given to understand this forum gives people the opportunity to voice an opinion, FREEDOM OF SPEECH, in an constructive manner.

But would you not agree "DOF" that players of Porthleven FC should be given the opportunity to represent their Club at a higher level with the possibility of larger Home crowds etc especially against the like of Bodmin, Wadebridge, Saltash St Blazey just to mention a few. as well as the Devon Clubs.

Hedgerow

Reference your comment about Ports players playing at a higher level, if thats where they wanted to be, they would be there ! & your thought that we would attract larger home crowds, Porthleven are top of the west division, its in their own hands to win it, they went to Foxhole a couple of weeks ago, not one supporter from Porthleven went to watch ! Thats Porthleven's biggest problem, no real supporters, we have people who go & watch home games, but then they go straight home & dont support the social club, thats why, financially, we cant afford it.

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Spider, I have to laugh as you have asked that question about 8 times with no reply! lol

I wish I could help shed some light, my guess is around £1500 tops in genuine additional travel expenses.

This can be paid for by the previous seasons winnings.

That gives an extra 12 months to find the extra revenue if any club stays up in their first season in the Prem!

Best source of info I would guess could be Wadebridge following promo last year?

Stuart Dudley is on here from time to time, so his thoughts would be interesting.

I'd also like to add that I'm not slating Porthleven.

My opinion would be the same regardless of who was in the hot seat.

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I understand the comments about supporters not staying behind after a game etc and that obviously has an effect on income. But if that is happening now how can a club afford to be in the league they're already in? Because I can't see that it costs any more to be in a higher league. Again, I'm not having a go but I just don't understand the extra costs as no one has ever answered the question.

Surely if players are just there to enjoy their football and have a laugh with their mates, nothing at all wrong with that, then a club shouldn't have to pay them anything which would save money???

Soil Sports, you say that £1500 tops would cover travel expenses to the club but how is travelling a direct cost to the club? Do clubs put on a mini bus to away games? At Launceston the players take in turns driving to games. No one ever moans about expenses cause it's a Saturday and we'll drive anywhere to play football!!

You just have to look at the lower leagues and see that players are turning up every week and PAYING £4-£5 a game subs to play football for the love of the game!!

The only thing that I imagine would cost more is Referees Expenses. But until someone actually lists the extra costs involved then everyone is going to have the same opionion on clubs not applying to go up.

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Guest Cowkicker

Lets also not forget how many players work saturday mornings, not finishing until lunchtime and a long distance away game would mean fielding a weakened side. Clubs would have to ask their players whether they are willing or able to travel if promoted, and use this in their decision.

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Wadebridge in Div 1 West - relatively small playing budget - won the league.

Wadebridge 1st season in Prem Div - slight increase in playing budget, not very often utilised, will not get relegated, may finish in top 12.

Increased costs - 2 more officials for every game, sometimes in excess of £140 per home game.

As you say, Spider, the players will drive to away games and take it in turn, we all car share and noone is out of pocket, the players even pay for a mini bus when we have one.

Not sure if the club have incurred any other costs in being in the higher league other than the officials.

Plus, we are still working to improve our facilities and make it the one of the best places to play, watch and socialise.

For me, and my Chairman, it's all about making sure everyone is doing it for the right reasons, we have a fantastic junior set up and two other men's teams with lots of talented young players who will eventually play in the first team.

Success is not always measured by winning the league every season, it's about building a foundation and a future legacy that will not drop from the sky if one person decides they've had enough. That's the reason I travel and the only thing that makes it all worthwhile in the face of some of the things we've had to put up with this season.

At the end of the day each to their own and every club have to make decisions based on the cut of their cloth and I, for one, respect that.

Enjoy your hobby!

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Guest Monty

And thats why it is important having local players playing for there local club, Not only will it up the ambience of the club but they will socalise together off the pitch bring the best out of there performances on the pitch. Instead of clubs and manager throwing money at players who really dont have the club at heart. Just look at Penryn Rugby club.

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so will one team from west and one team from east division definately come up to premier? Does that mean One team from Premier division will go down?

Assuming one from east and one team from the west will pass the ground inspection and are promoted, then one Premier club is due to be relegated. Favourites for the drop must be Elburton Villa or Holdsworthy, and geography suggests that either club will join Perranporth in an 18 team west division next season.

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Guest fromacrossthewater

That would leave an 18 team west and 16 team east league. What team would be forced to switch from west to east? or are there any other options?

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