Is benitez the man 4 the job??

[Guest The Bickland Bloke]

i have to say after todays peformance and the past seasons benitez has managed at liverpool, i would say that Liverpool can't move foward with him in charge. I'm a reds suporter and even i have to admit that we will never win the league with benitez. His silly tactics and the sale of Robbie Keane have really let us down this season, and i just can't understand why anyone would do that do. Got to be honest that if benitez got sacked, in a way i'd be quite happy. I mean every reds fan has to face the facts that benitez ain't the manager that will win us the league. I say bring in Kenny Dalglish, make a darn sight better than benitez. Whilst Rafa is in charge i don't think will win the league.

[St Darren]

What fantastic comments!!!

We've progressed under Benitez to being one of the best sides in Europe, granted we've had to many ridiculous dropped points in the league, but Benitez is the man to take us forward. With Parry out the way (the man who bought Robbie Keane) just the 2 yanks to go and then Benitez will be the man in charge!!

Rafa Rafa Rafael, Rafael, Rafael, Rafa Rafa Rafael, Rafael Benitez!

[kempy]

Well would you be saying that if you won today and not heard the rumours that a certain Mr M was linked with the job?? i think not!!

Come on you reds !! :rolleyes:

[hedgerow]

Have read the above with interest. We lost the title when we drew with Stoke, a second time, with 50m of forwards sat on the bench. Rafa is the man for european games, but when it comes to the Premiership that is a different matter.

When I heard in the week it was rumoured he was leaving, it came as no surprise. This man will not win us the premiership during my lifetime. We as a Club will not win the title this season. I hate to say it United won the title without kicking a ball when they were in Japan.

To spend 20m on a player and then to say it was good business to get 12m for a 28 year old, he must be on a different planet.

I said 12 months ago my choice of replacement would be either Martin O'Neil or the Mouriniho. Someone with a bit of passion. Kenny Dalglish would be good but in a supoorting role.

So in answer to the question. Rafa is not the man for the job. Done the F A Cup, League Cup and the Champions League in the last 20 years. Liverpool fans want the Premiership title and to defend it succesfully the following season.

Not too much to ask is it ?

[Soccer Follower]

It is with Benitez in charge!

As a Manchester United supporter,i'm very happy that Liverpool have Rafael Benitez in charge and long may it continue.

[midfield]

With Rafa in charge they'll never win the title.

Long may he reign!

:lol:

[Garf]

The differance between Benitez and Fergie is that at 0-0 with 15 mins to go Fergie will throw strikers on to win the game, Benitez will take a striker off and put a holding midfielder to make sure they don't lose.

He won the Chmpions League with three quarters of Houllier's team, he hasn't won it since.

[St Darren]

Jesus, some of you lot don't half talk shite!!

Ferguson has a bundle of riches to call on from the bench, Liverpool have very little, thats the difference.

[gerrard8]

why does he always play with a back 4 plus 2 defensive midfielders against teams with 1 upfront, #196 million since 2004 ,the worst left back in the league,and we are now a strikers graveyard

baros

cisse

morientes

crouch

bellamy

keane

kuyt......now a right winger?

sorry rafa you are a god in europe where a draw is a good result,but in the prem you need to win matches.

jose for me. <_<

[gillo10]

Jesus, some of you lot don't half talk shite!!

Ferguson has a bundle of riches to call on from the bench, Liverpool have very little, thats the difference.

And whos fault is that Darren? Rafa has spent nearly 200 mill since taking over and as you say still cannot bring on anyone of equal standard to those already playing.

[r_and_l]

Jesus, some of you lot don't half talk shite!!

Ferguson has a bundle of riches to call on from the bench, Liverpool have very little, thats the difference.

And whos fault is that Darren? Rafa has spent nearly 200 mill since taking over and as you say still cannot bring on anyone of equal standard to those already playing.

If he didnt keep selling good players like keane and bellamy then you might have better options on the bench as it is he appears to have no man managment skills at all!! I expect the replys you give darren cause you are a blinkered fan but from a neutrals point of view how many more seasons will benitez blow his chances in the premiership before he is replaced by someone that will be able to see the job through?

[Garf]

Oh yeah Kuyt. The only bloke from Holland that couldn't score in their Red Light District.

[tms no9]

i have to say after todays peformance and the past seasons benitez has managed at liverpool, i would say that Liverpool can't move foward with him in charge. I'm a reds suporter and even i have to admit that we will never win the league with benitez. His silly tactics and the sale of Robbie Keane have really let us down this season, and i just can't understand why anyone would do that do. Got to be honest that if benitez got sacked, in a way i'd be quite happy. I mean every reds fan has to face the facts that benitez ain't the manager that will win us the league. I say bring in Kenny Dalglish, make a darn sight better than benitez. Whilst Rafa is in charge i don't think will win the league.

in a poll 93% of liverpool season ticket holders at anfield believe rafa is the best man for liverpool manager. enough said

[St Darren]

Below is what was on the Liverpool website from a writer called Paul Tompkins, he makes sense in what he says!!

As a supporter of Liverpool FC I will support whoever is in charge, at the moment Benitez is in charge, and he gets my full support. If you don't support the manager, then you just as well **** off and support someone else in my opinion.

**************************************************************************

I've tried in the past, but the media misinformation continues to gather pace like some ill-founded rumour. It's dangerous, because it causes unjust criticism.

Let's make one thing clear: Liverpool have nowhere near the most expensive squad in the Premiership.

No. Where. Near.

Indeed, there are three clubs who have spent at least 50 per cent more on their current squad than Liverpool.

Shocked? Well, you should be if you believe what's spouted out on TV. But it's true. And one of the clubs is not a name you'd necessarily expect.

It doesn't help that some people – such as Jamie Redknapp last night – focus on Rafa's gross spend, rather than the net amount. Effectively, this means counting all the right-backs he's bought as one big outlay, rather than looking at how he's replaced one with another for roughly the same £2m fee.

Working with just the gross spend, you add the £2m of Josemi to the £2m value of Kromkamp (even though it was a swap), to the £2.6m paid for Arbeloa. But none of these players were at the club at the same time, and each was traded to get to the point where an outright success was secured, as happened with the final purchase.

So even though the total cost of getting Arbeloa was just the £2.6m paid, people will use a figure almost three times as high. That is illogical.

(Another note, Jamie: Liverpool have three right-backs on the books, not just one; but the promising Darby, like Arbeloa, was injured and Degen has had a first season ruined by various ailments. So it's wrong to criticise the manager for an unbalanced squad and playing a midfielder out of position when three right-backs are unavailable.)

It's like the housing market: you don't just go in and buy a mansion straight from school. (Okay, so maybe some footballers do, but not the normal people of this world. As someone stuck with renting, I'm speaking generally here!)

You start with an affordable house; you then use the money from selling that to buy your next property. Most people can only get to own a big house having traded their way up over a number of years.

Yet when someone asks how much you spent on your house, you don't add all the houses you've ever bought together, do you?

If you own a £220,000 house, you don't say £470,000 because you add the £90,000 starter home and the £160,000 step up. That would be moronic.

According to the excellent and reliable www.LFCHistory.net, Rafa's gross spend is approximately £188m, but his net spend is only £108m, given that around £80m has been recouped.

(I'd hazard a guess that a large proportion of the £108m net spend has also been recouped through Champions League progress rewards, particularly with the Reds being the top-ranked team based on his five-year tenure.)

So it's easy to pluck a figure of '£195m' from the air, live on air, and make it seem like that should make a team champions, or ultra-close challengers.

But it's only the cost of the current squad that counts. Because that's all a manager can choose from; he can't go back in time and select a player he sold in order to trade up, just as you can't just turn up to one of your old houses and let yourself in.

You simply cannot add Rafa having spent £5.8m on Sissoko to the £18m on Mascherano, because the two were never part of the same set-up; one was bought and sold for a profit, and as with a house, the money reinvested in a step-up. If Sissoko isn't bought and then sold, Mascherano probably doesn't arrive.

Is that really too tough to grasp?

From my own experience in writing 'Dynasty', I can attest that researching transfer fees is never easy, given the amount of undisclosed fees and various add-ons (for various things, like appearances, trophies won, national caps and the cultivation of unexpectedly daring hairstyles).

But taking each fee as the most a club has expect to pay when add-ons are activated, I've calculated the cost of the most expensive squads in the league, and listed them below.

(Note: while it's impossible to be 100 per cent accurate with the figures in the public domain, I'd say that overall it's at least 95 per cent of the true amount, and with rival teams I've actually been generous and excluded a couple of players whose cost just isn't listed anywhere I could find.)

The most expensive squads (excluding players out on long-term loan) are as follows:

Chelsea £207m

Manchester United £206m*

Spurs £188m

Manchester City £140m

Liverpool £127m

(*£226m if Carlos Tevez's deal made permanent, given that it is initially a unique two-year £10m agreement, and very different from 99.9 of transfer deals. Effectively United are winning games with a £30m player.)

So what does this tell us?

Let's start with the leaders. United's squad contains the most home-grown players, such as Giggs, Scholes, Neville, O'Shea, Brown and Fletcher, who all arrived for free.

So that shows that it is a long-established core supplemented by a lot of expensive signings added one by one to a unified collection. In other words, classic, spot-on building of a squad when already established at the very top.

But it shows that even if you work with the unfair use of Rafa's gross spend, it still doesn't match what Ferguson has spent on his current squad, let alone those who have been bought and sold for record fees in the past.

And this is utterly, utterly critical, and beyond the grasp of some people who cannot analyse things with common sense.

After all, what does it matter how much Rafa has spent since 2004 if Ferguson is currently fielding players like Ferdinand (£30m) and Ronaldo (£12.8m) who were bought before then?

Isn't Rafa – in the real world – competing with a team whose construction started well before he arrived?

Unless Ferguson is banned from fielding players like Ferdinand and Ronaldo (which would be illogical), or forced to start from scratch in 2004 (again illogical), it is not a fair comparison, is it? – I mean, come on, use your brain for a second here.

After all, how much as Harry Redknapp spent since he took over at Spurs? I make it almost £50m. How much has Rafa spent since Harry Redknapp took over at Spurs? Nothing. But only a nutter would compare the two in this deeply skewed way.

Rafa has been in his job about five times as long as Harry, so you obviously wouldn't dare compare their teams. And yet Ferguson has been in his job about five times as long as Rafa, and yet the Spaniard is expected to have Liverpool as champions by now.

Chelsea and Spurs are actually the more interesting examples in many ways. I knew Spurs had spent a lot, but to have a current squad that cost almost £200m shocked me. Add together the cost of Bentley, Pavyluchenko, Palacios, Bale, Defoe, Bent, Keane and Modric and you more-or-less end up with the cost of Liverpool's entire squad.

I could be sarcastic – or media-style sensationalistic – and say that with that much spent, any manager should be able to win almost all of his matches, but it wouldn't be fair or logical. It's far more complex than that, and even a good manager like Redknapp has his work cut out.

Chelsea and Spurs have had seven managers between them since 2007. This means different men making expensive signings and ending up with a mixed squad. Based on expenditure, both of these clubs are massively underachieving this season. Almost certainly to blame for that is the hierarchy having itchy fingers when it comes to firing managers.

Of course, this analysis doesn't include wages, either. You don't get the very top players in the world without also having to pay them a king's ransom. Michael Ballack must be most expensive free transfer ever, with wages reported to be around £130,000 a week, or about £30m over five years. Again, Liverpool are no way near the highest payers, either.

So there you have it. By all means print it out and pass it around; 'pass it on', as the saying goes, including to those in the media who could do with reading it. By all means quibble over some of the finer details, as there is a tolerance of a few percent on the accuracy of the figures, but the overall gist is very much sound and robust.

[Guest Man on the Post]

Money is only a part of the equation. You just have to look at Everton to see that.

The main reason why Man Utd are top of the league is because Ferguson is a far better manager than Benitez when it comes to Premiership football. I get the feeling than whatever 11 Utd put out they would run through brick walls for Ferguson because they like and respect him, I do not get that feeling with Liverpool players and Benitez. When Man Utd bring in fringe players such as Wellbeck and Gibson they do not look out of place, again not the case with Liverpool. I think Benitez lacks man-management skills. If I was a footballer I know which manager I would rather play for!

In my opinion Benitez is another Ramos, better suited to Spanish and European football.

[St Darren]

How did Fergie do in his first 5 years of management at Utd?

He's gone on to be arguably the greatest manager of all time (alongside Paisley!!!) because he was given time. Football is a whole different story nowadays with regards to money and time in a job.

[Guest Man on the Post]

Ferguson did not do very well on the pitch in his first 5 years. However off the pitch he totally reorganised the structure of the club, which resulted in the development of players such as Beckham, the Nevilles' Giggs, Scholes etc, etc.

I've no idea if Benitez has done the same.

[St Darren]

I see what you mean MOTP but football is changing.

Liverpool's reserve side is full of foreigners, that are being coached by Benitez and his staff. Granted, not doing much for the English side of the game, but I couldn't really give a monkies about that in the grand scheme of things.

Utd had a great batch of youngsters that all made it big, will the next crop do the same? Fergie can blood some of these in games because of the quality that is around them. Liverpool have some good players but not the overall quality that UTD have.

I'll still support Benitez for his entire spell whilst he is at the club,

[Guest tafc.-gaffa]

Totally agree St. Darren!!!!

[Kettle]

First time I've looked at this part of the forum, interesting debate and great piece above about the finances.

My main consideration is this:

If Wenger, Ferguson or Mourinho had the squad that Rafa now has/had in December, I think LFC would be still top and probably would win it this season.

I can't argue that the overall process to get to this point has been one of progression, but I still don't think Rafa has enough confidence in his players to get them in right frame of mind to win the home games that they have drawn this season, to me, it's that simple. He has a very good squad, but doesn't fill them with belief like the other top managers do.

This is proven by their ability to get results in the Champs League games, no top player would ever need motivating when playing Real Madrid, Juventus, Chelsea etc etc. These results are down to the players, not the manager.

Also, I would not want to see Martin O'neill at LFC as I don't think his teams have ever shown the ability to control the pace and tempo of a game by keeping the ball. Pass and move in O'neill's world is hoof it and run after it. No way would he ever do well in internaitonal or european football. He's a rich Chairman's Paul Sturrock. (doing a slightly better job of it, of course!)

[St Darren]

Stuart, which is exactly why I'd love to see O'Neill at Utd!!

There's only one man that I think could be better than Benitez and that would be Morinhio, but that is a big if, and I'm happy with what we've got at the moment thats for sure.

Parry's going in summer, 2 yanks to go, and Liverpool football club will hopefully be run in the way it was for 115 years before those muppets got their hands on it.

[gillo10]

So take out the money aspect of who spent what and net spend vs gross spend. Benitez has put together the vast majority of this squad, correct? Has the club moved forward under his management?(Houllier finished 2nd in Prem during his tenure) Are the Liverpool fans happy to carry on beating Madrid one day, lose to Boro the next, not beat or even score vs Stoke in two games this season and make little progression towards winning the league but make a cup final every couple of years?

In my humble opinion the league is the "bread and butter" for any player, manager and fan. Thats what your season is, predominantly, based upon. ie when Liverpool won the Champs League in 2004(?) they finished 5th in the league, behind Everton, so how could they really say they are Champs of Europe when they were the second best team in their own city.

Each to there own but I know that if United go 18 years, and counting, without the league when the bubble of Sir Alex bursts I would take the league over possible European success. This obviously doesnt mean I would be unhappy to win in Europe but im sure you all know what I mean.

It seems, from what I know, Rafa has shot himself, and the fans, in the foot for political and personal gain by some of his decisions. The rant, selling Keane, constantly bringing into the public domain things that should remain in house like his contract wranglings and his issues with Parry and the owners.

This is just my take on things based on what Ive read and heard from Liverpool fans. As a United fan I hope he gets all that he wants and keeps up the good work ;)