Guest Peppermint Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Just an observation - but on a few visits to various football grounds and Bodieve Park in particular. Every time I have been at Wadebridge this season there has been a referees' assessor there. It is always the same person - I was just wondering if any referee or anyone else for that matter could inform us how many assessors there are and how many times does a referee expect to be assessed in a season. Thanks in anticipation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted January 11, 2009 Report Share Posted January 11, 2009 Peppermint it really depends on the level. Not sure how many assessors there are but I think on the SWPL Premier I think it may be 10 assessments in a marking year (March-February). I may be wrong though. Stig will know/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peppermint Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thanks for that information Bighairydave - I find it interesting that if anyone dares to query an officials performance etc then the referees on the Forum will instantly throw their weight behind a retort but all I ask is a simple question and the response is lacking. I t is interesting that a well respected CSWPL Premier League Manager has raised a simliar question on the League Forum and one of the points that Phil Hiscox raised is that next season for Step 7 up no appeal against a red card will be allowed without VIDEO evidence - we are descending into the realms of fantasy - well done the FA. Still - The Judge can now purchase a video camera and film every Newquay game in case of a red card!!!! The worrying thing I can envisage is that card happy referees will see this as a licence to hand out red cards without the fear of a challenge from a club that feels hard done by. It is all very well for Football League games when there is tv cameras present but how do lowly clubs compete with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaves Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 why is it referees and the clubs involved in the fixture(i think) are told they are to be assessed...surely this affects the decision making of the ref...?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peppermint Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Good point Beaves - the very point made on the League Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Peppermint, A club may be contacted by an assessor purely to check that the game is on and that the official is the one listed, I do not think that as a matter of course the referee is informed that he is to be assessed certainly in my experience I have never been informed that I was to be assessed. But I will admit it does not take you too long to see if an assessor is present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peppermint Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thanks for that B.Manning - it must be easy to spot an assessor because at the last five games I have visited Bodieve Park this season it has been the same assessor. He was actually talking to the referee and his assistants before the game in the Clubhouse on some of the occasions. You referees must know the assessors and as you say it must be pretty easy to spot with their clipboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I was led to believe that assessors went into the officials changing room before the game and listened to how the referee talked to and instructed his assistants for the game ahead. All part of the assessment. I queried this with the assessor at the time because I suggested it immediately put the referee under unnecessary pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Dave, I believe a few seasons ago when this was the case, the reason being that the assessor then knew what the referee`s instructions were to his assistants. I am also an assessor and I would not do this as I would not like to disrupt the officials preparations for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 The assessor may or may not choose to go into the changing rooms before the game. In Cornwall you normally know you are being assessed is before the game, but this season I have experienced that the assessor has called me on the Monday before a game to check timings etc. (in Birmingham) With regards to the video evidence I think that while the clubs at steps where cautions and sending off are still under the jurisdication of the County FA appeals should still be allowed without video evidence. When you go upto Truro City level (Step 5/4???) I think that is where video evidence should start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackie Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 At wadebridge we have had a referees assessor at the last 4 games, i think , maybe more and has actually been a bit of a nightmare for us with some of the decisions; and cards being handed out like confetti. In the last 2 games alone we have had 8 yellows and a red more than the rest of the season put together and most of them for trivial things. "Sorry boy assessor watching that's a yellow, your unlucky day" was said to one of our players. I just thing at this level it puts too much pressure on the ref and his assistants and they are afraid to make mistakes. Maybe it would be better if they did not know they were being assessed and then commonsense may return to our game again because the banter between player and ref seems to have gone out the window and i am slowly getting a bit disallusioned with it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Referee Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 IN ANSWER TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION I DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY HOW MANY ASSESSORS WE HAVE BUT THE ANSWER IS - NOT ENOUGH. MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, ASSESSORS ARE PULLED TO OFFICIATE TO COVER SHORTAGES WHICH DOES NOT HELP THE DEVELOPING REFEREES MUCH. WITH REGARDS TO ASSESSING AT SWPL LEVEL THEN YES THEY DO GO TO THE CHANGING ROOMS AS THE BRIEFING TO THE ASSISTANTS MUST BE OBSERVED. FOR PROMOTION TO LEVEL 6 OR LEVEL 5 THEN YOU AS THE REFEREE ARE NOT INFORMED THAT THEY ARE BEING ASSESSED, HOWEVER, IF YOU ARE UP FOR PROMOTION AND HAVE BEEN GIVEN A JUNIOR CUP TIE OR A CRUNCH PROMOTION/RELEGATION CLASH THEN IT WOULD BE WISE TO LOOK OUT FOR AN OFFICIAL-LOOKING GEEZER WALKING AROUND WITH A CLIPBOARD OR DICTOPHONE........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cornishdave1980 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 why is it referees and the clubs involved in the fixture(i think) are told they are to be assessed...surely this affects the decision making of the ref...?? Being assessed should have no bearing on the decision making of the official, 9/10 a referee is being assessed because he/she maybe ready for promotion and as such are showing all the right signs to becoming a competent referee. As well as assessing a referees performance, the assessor acts as a mentor by guiding developing referees and developing their weaker areas. I think this thread has highlighted that referees as well players can be under constant analysis, which in turn keeps us sharper. At the end of the day all decisions are given because in the opinion of the official he/she believed it was the correct decision. By being assessed he/she has the opportunity to discuss his decision making on a neutral front. Great thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Question for a referee : What happens if the referee and assessor disagrees over a decision made by the ref? Is there room for a honest discussion as to what the ref saw, compared to the assessor, but at the end of the day is it a case of what the assessor thinks goes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cornishdave1980 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Dave from my experience there has been scope to discuss a decision. Two points to note are your position to the incident compared to the assessors and secondly the wording "in the opinion of". Obviously the assessor has far more experience than the assessee but without discussion there would never be any development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Deacon Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Does the referee get to see the marks/assessment report and is there room to question and get anything changed if you don't agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cornishdave1980 Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I was shown the marking sheet after the debrief, I am not sure if this is the same throughout all county FA's but i am in the military and work with several of our assessors. Whether this is a favour or not, Im unsure. I would be interested to know the policys of the CCFA, if anyone knows? By this point you have already had your discussion with the assesor, he has asked you about certain elements of the game and you have given your reasons, therefore there should be no change due to disagreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Manning Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 Yes Dave, as well as a debrief the official gets a copy of the assessors report with any relevant points and guidance that the assessor thinks necessary. If memory serves me correctly the official does not get to see the marks that are given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighairydave Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 The marks are now given due to I think the freedom of information act. I know a little further up there is scope for appeal if the official feels that in law the assessor is incorrect. But you do run the risk that the mark may go down further! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Judge aka RED OR DEAD Posted January 13, 2009 Report Share Posted January 13, 2009 I t is interesting that a well respected CSWPL Premier League Manager has raised a simliar question on the League Forum and one of the points that Phil Hiscox raised is that next season for Step 7 up no appeal against a red card will be allowed without VIDEO evidence - we are descending into the realms of fantasy - well done the FA. Still - The Judge can now purchase a video camera and film every Newquay game in case of a red card!!!! The worrying thing I can envisage is that card happy referees will see this as a licence to hand out red cards without the fear of a challenge from a club that feels hard done by. It is all very well for Football League games when there is tv cameras present but how do lowly clubs compete with this. Right, I want a gantry built on top of the main stand, 3 ex-pro's ripping the refs performance at h/t and f/t and the match shown live via Greek/Albanian/Al Queda TV to other clubs around the country. Before the CCFA/SWPL have a say, I claim the rights to all matches to be televised, videoed and all weblive broadcasts, DVDs will be on sale in our megastore within 15mins of the match being completed and as cameraman, director, producer, commentator, I reserve the right to swear like a bloody trooper and be totally biased in any broadcast be it live or edited for show on any network worldwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ronin Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Right, I want a gantry built on top of the main stand, 3 ex-pro's ripping the refs performance at h/t and f/t and the match shown live via Greek/Albanian/Al Queda TV to other clubs around the country. Before the CCFA/SWPL have a say, I claim the rights to all matches to be televised, videoed and all weblive broadcasts, DVDs will be on sale in our megastore within 15mins of the match being completed and as cameraman, director, producer, commentator, I reserve the right to swear like a bloody trooper and be totally biased in any broadcast be it live or edited for show on any network worldwide. Judge that's the funniest thing you've ever written! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the ref Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Judge :clapper: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Referee Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Right, I want a gantry built on top of the main stand, 3 ex-pro's ripping the refs performance at h/t and f/t and the match shown live via Greek/Albanian/Al Queda TV to other clubs around the country. Before the CCFA/SWPL have a say, I claim the rights to all matches to be televised, videoed and all weblive broadcasts, DVDs will be on sale in our megastore within 15mins of the match being completed and as cameraman, director, producer, commentator, I reserve the right to swear like a bloody trooper and be totally biased in any broadcast be it live or edited for show on any network worldwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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