For me, the balance of power is moving over to the Devon Clubs.!

[Dave Deacon]

Well, what does everyone think about the comment made from Steve Massey? I'm sure Steve won't mind me taking his comments from the South West Peninsula League Forum for debating on here. His posting came about after watching the 3-3 draw last night between Buckland and Ivybridge ................

"Excellent game last night for the Neutral! Great Atmosphere, and said on many occassions, it is a real pleasure to visit Grounds like Bucklands, you can quite clearly see they have many people who CARE about their club, the ground and club house are superb.

For me, the balance of power is moving over to the Devon Clubs.!

That was never the Case before, But Buckland and others in Devon are very ambitious and its great to see.

I'm afraid the Cornish Clubs (with expection of Truro!) are going back wards, The apathy is all to clear to see.

There are the odd exceptions, Penzance for one, but that is just a "bubble", although its fabulous to see clubs wanting success and wish them well.

The problem with many of the Cornish Teams is they Lack Ambition, Most are just fulfilling fixtures, and drifting along!!.

BUT, Having said that I still think we are a season away yet from a Devon taking the Championship Flag.

Both Last nights teams for me are still very short from being called Champions.

Defensively both sides were poor and sure that both Keepers have had better evenings esp Ivybridge's!

The Enthusiasm and Commitment from the player's and in Particular the Management in the Dugout's, made it a Fantastic game to watch.

Best Player on the park by a mile was Martin Sullivan, he looks younger and younger every time I see him!! But was in great form last night. Buckland just did not get near him esp in 1st half.

Playing behind the front Two he was always in acres of space and sure Baylo and Jamie will think about man to man job on him for next week? or should do to stop Ivybridge's ONLY Creative player.

Look forward to watching many more games like last night, wonderfull advert for Semi Pro Football at this level."

:c:

[Paul]

Would it be that the Cornish clubs are having a problem attracting players due to the big over used excuse of traveling? Theres always been a good section of players coming from Plymouth playing for Cornish clubs because the SWL was always stronger than the Devon league. Now its the SWPL, we are as one, so maybe its easier to play for a Devon now. Just a thought.

As for Cornish clubs just fulfilling fixtures, thats a bit harsh. I wont comment on others but I no there are alot of people putting a great deal of effort into St Blazey week in week out. Ok the team might not be pulling up trees right now but weve had our spell in the sun......we will return!!

P.s...what was the crowd at Buckland last night?

[Mike Odgers]

171

[Sir Alex]

Most of the Devon clubs have players there who WANT to play, not just turn up, trot around for 90 minutes then pick up there money and bugger off home, THAT my friend is the difference!!!

[Paul]

Thanks Mike. A very good crowd. Could do with a few more like that at St Blazey....and Falmouth for that matter!! I see from Tony Kempsters site that Falmouth and St Blazeys crowds are both down over 30%!! Some of the devon clubs are showing healthy increases, Dartmouth +70%, NAS +50%, Buckland +41%, Cullompton +35%Tavi +25% and even Witheridge and Holsworthy who have had a awful start to the season have 13 and 10% increases!!

[chairman]

The time to judge it all is at the end of the season,when these things will average out better.

It still all seems to come back to that old evil loot thing.

[Guest Peppermint]

So Mr Massey states that no other club than Truro City or Penzance have any ambition!

Rather an irrational statement with nothing to back it up. Truro City are lucky to have a benefactor who has put sizeable sums of money into the Club. Penzance this season are lucky to have money pumped in to enhance the playing side.

Other clubs like Newquay, Wendron etc have tried to put money in to imroving the infrastructure and playing surfaces of their grounds and clubhouses. A number of hardworking people in clubs have lots of ambition but it takes a lot of time and effort and I am disappointed that someone like Mr Massey has made this statement.

I am not decrying the money that Truro and Penzance have and if we were lucky to have a person to invest sizeable sums of money on the playing side then I am sure most of us would find it difficult to refuse.

This is not a posting denigrating Truro or Penzance becuse I say good luck to them and wish them well.

However to say that clubs in Cornwall have no ambition is a bit rich coming from an ex manager that as far as I know had a good budget but still failed to win much!

As far as the shifting of power to Devon I agree with the Chairman let's wait and see. I am sure Bodmin, Saltash, Launceston, St Blazey etc will have something to say about it.

[claret&blue]

Would St Blazey, good a side as they were for the last 10 years, have had that success without the evil 'loot' ?

[r_and_l]

Would St Blazey, good a side as they were for the last 10 years, have had that success without the evil 'loot' ?

Thats exactley what i was thinking!! Funny how when the boots on the other foot people's opinions change isnt it!!!

[Paul]

Whos opinion has changed? Surly the question is about ambition. St Blazey may not have loney to burn right now but the faithful still watch and the people behind the scenes still work as hard as ever.

R and I....Argyle 4v0 Sheff Wed. :yahoo:

[Steve Massey]

Peppermint, So thankful you have given me the opportunity to come back, and continue this Healthy debate.

YOU are an Ardent and dedicated Football Follower, your response shows a Passion and Enthusiasm for Cornish Soccer, But, I'm not talking about individuals, it's Collectively, WE are all to blame!.

You ask, "Who am I to make these comments"?

The fact Is, I have been right at the heart of running Football Club's In Cornwall now for 20 years. From Club to County, I have seen and In fact been part of much Apathy at all levels. I personally think I am very Qualified to make these Comments.

You ask the Question, what evidence do I have to "Back this up"?. Well I'll give you a Couple of Issue's for Why I believe there is an Apathy and lack of Ambition within Cornish Soccer.

Firstly, Truro City, Cornwall's most Successful(?) AND AMBITIOUS CLUB in recent years!.

Mr Heaney has taken so much flak and abuse, his crime? His Ambition, He as tons of it. he has put his own money in, lots of It,! Developed the ground and brought a standard of Football never seen before in Cornwall. But, except for Truro Fans, everybody else wants them to fail!!.

That In a nut shell is the mind set of, not everybody!!, but many supporter's in Cornwall. Apathy!

Travelling around the country, I say I'm involved in Cornish Soccer and the perception is disappointing.

Before Truro's success, People thought we didnt even have enclosed grounds, never mind successful football clubs!!.

Far to many people have a blinkered attitude in Cornwall. Unable to see the bigger picture. Of course there is the Healthy rivalry between clubs, We all want to see that.

Love them or hate them, They are Fine Ambassadors, flying the flag for a better awareness and impression of Cornish Soccer.

BUT, Truro's ambition is sneered and Laughed at. We have not really embraced Truro's success as a County.

Cynicism and negativity abound when discussing Truro. Surely the only evidence to be gained from this situation is that, Ambition in Cornwall is met with an air of Suspicion, Pessimism and Negativity, Not a great Blue Print then for encouraging other club's or person's wanting to make THEIR Club more successful? Apathy!

Secondly, Just like yourself, there are a SMALL, dedicated band of Loyal, hard working PASSIONATE followers AT EVERY CLUB, at every level in Cornwall, BUT, there are far to many DISPASSIONATE ATTITUDES within Cornish Soccer. Apathy!

Do not be confused with thinking Ambition is just all about the playing side and the Division your club plays in. There are some superbly run clubs with great facilities, Wendron and Hayle come to mind.

But, How many Clubs and Committes can honestly say they have sat down and planned where they would like to be in three, four Years time?. Implementing the Improvements that are badly needed at lots of Grounds around the County.

Places like Falmouth, St Austell, Newquay and Bodmin, Big names with Fantastic C.V.s. Non have had any improvement (except paint job) for Years. Particularly in the Dressing Room Department!!

There are, as mentioned at top, Superb, Hard Working People, who I have Huge Respect for. Without them their clubs would be really in a mess, But, In Cornwall there is not enough of them. Far to many Clubs now are being run and organised by fewer and fewer people, And all they spend their time doing is Fire Fighting and Patching up.

How many are being Pro Active in getting Grants to finance these improvements?. I Know there are Clubs out there that do not Know if they Qualify for grants or even how they go about getting them!!

Since the South West Peninsula League started, Many Devon Clubs have continued to improve, on and off the pitch. None yet with anything like the C.Vs of the Conish Clubs, But The Enthusiasm and sheer numbers of people helping and being Involved with the Clubs, like Buckland, Dartmouth, Parkway, Cullumpton, Witheridge and Ivybridge (who have just been awarded a Huge Grant to fund Floodlights and new stand!) to name a few, are all looking very healthy for the Future.

GOOD Players like to be involved with an Ambitious club and modern facilities.

I'm not saying a Devon side will win the League. I see any one finishing Above Bodmin this season will be crowned Champions!! But it's coming to the time when I can see the top Five, Six in League being dominated by Devon Sides.

I wanted to make the point that, since coming into the County, I have always believed and felt, that many of Cornish Clubs on and off the pitch were far superiour. That is now changing, without a doubt, and It makes me sad to see A Proud Footballing County slowly struggling to rise to the Challenge.

I hope, Peppermint I have given you some explanation to the questions you raised in your posting.

With Best Wishes

Steve Massey

[Guest Peppermint]

Thank you Steve for that very reasoned and thoughtful posting and I would add a few points to my previous posting.

In my earlier reply I did not have anything bad to say about Truro City who have indeed flown the flag for Cornwall and won the FA Vase. I have had the pleasure of meeting Kevin Heaney and he is a genuine and passionate man regarding football and City are very lucky to have him involved. I wish them every success and hope they can eventually achieve Conference level or above.

Penzance are also lucky in having a benefactor and again I only wish them well and in John Mead [sparing his blushes] they have probably the most efficient and knowledgeable person in Cornish Soccer.

I have recently taken over as Chairman of Newquay Football Club and although things will not happen overnight the Committee have a vision for Mount Wise and the Club is hopefully going to be awarded Community Club status and we now have all the Youth teams in Newquay as part of our Club and these were very positive step for the Club.

The infrastructure of Mount Wise is in the process of being upgraded including changing rooms but it all takes time and we hopefully are going in the right direction. The previously much maligned playing surface has been transformed by the new groundsman and the Club has invested heavily in it.

We at the Club have a new Committe who will make mistakes I am sure but hopefully the changes to the ground and the Clubhouse will enhance the Club.

I was not lucky to be at Newquay in their golden years and it nice to have a successful club historically but things move on and the Club can not live in the past forever. Saying all that we can never forget the hard and dedicated work of past Committee members who have given their all for the Peppermints.

Thanks for your kind wishes and hopefully we can welcome you to a match at Mount Wise and we can continue the discussion over a drink.

Best wishes

Graham Drew Chairman Newquay Football Club.

[Steve Massey]

Graham,

Many thanks for Kind words. I will refer back to my posting again when saying, If There were MORE Passionate, Loyal and Hard working People Just like yourself, active in Cornish Soccer, Devon would have to wait a long time to claim the Crown!!!

I wish you great success with all that is happening at Newquay, and look forward to ordering a drink with you soon

Kindest Regards

Steve

[burts]

Thought I would chip in here guys. Apologies for not putting on such a well thought out and grammatically perfect post but balance of power?

A team has superb support and a lovely ground with passionate people behind the scenes-as previously mentioned by Steve,all clubs have these. But all this will count for nothing if they don't win the league.....this is where teams are judged, this is what people remember as years go by.

The balance of power is only shifted when a team becomes successful and wins trophies! I don't recall a devon club winning anything yet? Even when it was the JSWL with devon involvement I don't remember a club winning anything in the last 10 years (please correct me if I'm wrong) As far as I can see, any club finishing above Saltash or Bodmin will be the champions.

At least there are at least 5-6 clubs that can win it this year...much more exciting than previous years.

[Guest]

It's been a known fact ever since the SWL now SWPL started in that numerous Plymouth players crossed the Tamar Bridge to play for Cornish clubs and returning especially recently with their boots full of cash.

It is possible and I am sure I am right that clubs have squandered squillions of pounds trying to compete by paying far too high a players wage bill. This in hindsight could have been used for the betterment of the club both on and off the field. If a club can balance their books by offering higher payments even if they don't succeed then that is fine.

We have the familiar rant from some managers who say I cannot raise a winning team without money, and if they don't get it they are off. How many teams invest in their second string or youth? For example St Blazey lost numerous quality youngsters because they never got a look in and rarely reached the bench. The manager preferring to 'buy' in players. They even dropped put of the ECPL.

Plymouth players now look east instead of west. As grounds and facilities continue to improve in Devon.

The scourge in Cornwall has always been the wage bill, not so in Devon although this is new being slowly redressed. The feeling has always been in Cornwall that they had the best clubs over Devon and rightly so. But as Steve Massey is saying this is slowly changing. We are also now living in a financially restricted world where money is not going to be available.

But again clubs lately have lost some great people at their clubs. Two reasons. The first is the obvious one where the clubs diehards have literally died or just cannot do what they used to. Then you have the young bucks who work their way on to committees causing havoc and seeing off many more diehards through lack of respect. They then leave because their offspring is neither playing for the club anymore or is not rightly or wrongly part of the managers plans. Or they realise that the job is much harder than they thought.

I don't think any club is not ambitious. They are, but over the years problems such as above have had a detrimental effect on them. Clubs must gear their attentions to the social aspect of their clubs. Pulling in money from the off pitch activities is essential. But this wont happen if those facilitates are underused. Using an all encompassing policy will help. But are clubs prepared to do that. Youth and female football should be helping a club bring in extra money and not sneered at.

The day in Cornwall of having local players in local teams is long fading simply because an offer of an extra tenner to a player to move 20 miles down the road usually wins the argument.

So going back to Steve’s argument he has travelled as he says all over the region and he is noticing changes. The economic problems the nation is experiencing will permeate down to grass roots football. Travel costs have increased and jobs will start to go. Getting in people who actually want to help clubs must be a priority not recruiting people who just want to talk.

Only time will tell if Cornish clubs recover their heart and soul. By then will it be to late.

[r_and_l]

Would St Blazey, good a side as they were for the last 10 years, have had that success without the evil 'loot' ?

Thats exactley what i was thinking!! Funny how when the boots on the other foot people's opinions change isnt it!!!

Whos opinion has changed? Surly the question is about ambition. St Blazey may not have loney to burn right now but the faithful still watch and the people behind the scenes still work as hard as ever.

R and I....Argyle 4v0 Sheff Wed.

no-one was questioning the support!! more wondering why the loot is evil now your beloved blazey are not using it to buy success anymore!!not easy without bundles of cash to assemble your squad is it?????

[Paul]

Who said having money was evil? If someone out there has a wedge of cash to pGump into St Blazey then bring it on I say. Although I wouldnt want it thrown at the team right now. Money would we well spent doing a bit more work on the ground and clubhouse.

I have nothing against Truro doing well, in fact, im all for it. I think a few glory hunters who had nothing to do with Truro until the money rolled in anoyed many people when they had nothing good to say about the clubs who didnt have the money to take the road Truro have.

To say its evil is utter rubbish...If I or anyone else had the money, id like to see St Blazey take the Truro road. One day.....one day!!

[Stig]

Money would we well spent doing a bit more work on the ground and clubhouse.

I

Or even on teh tiny officials changing room with the leaking shower!

I said at teh start of last season that the balence of power would shift but I meant in geographical terms, to say 25 miles or so either side of teh Devon / Cornwall border.

Devon has better road networks and a couple of big major cities (Plymouth & Exeter) why would players want to travel into Cornwall on inferior roads when they can get just as good (money, clubs, teams) on their doorstep?

[Guest crosser]

How do you define ambition???

If ambition is having an Individual who is willing to pump loads of money into a club then yes there are some clubs in cornwall with this ambition. But what happens when that individual moves away for whatever reason? it will be interesting to see what happens at Bodmin now that Mr Carey has stepped aside

But if ambition is a hardworking committee ensuring that their clubs plays at a level of football that is good for their club than surely that counts at ambition?? there are very few clubs who can follow in Truro's footsteps and rise up through the leagues due to the money involved.

Personally i think the people that move into a club bring loads of money with them, then decide to move on for whatever reason is a bad thing and always leave's a trail of destruction behind them with clubs struggling to keep it going, Porthleven, Falmouth, Liskeard & Blazey these were all clubs with money behind them at some point be it from an individual or other sources.

The strong footings for a football club start with the club itself once you have a strong base to build on then you can move on, Every club has a level it can play at and sustain itself at its just a matter of finding that level, rapid rises through the leagues never works out in the long term.