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ECPL AGM & SGM 2008


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The Leagues AGM will be held on Wednesday 18th June at St Blazey FC.

The Special General Meeting for all clubs will be held on Wednesday 21st May also at St Blazey FC. This meeting is to decide which new clubs will be put to the AGM for clarification for the 2008/9 season.

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No way - 4th from bottom of the Duchy Premier - why should they be allowed back in over the likes of St Stephens Borough (promoted anyway), Edgecumbe, Torpoint Athletic and St Dominick? All far more deserving cases, either in terms of recent progress through the leagues, and/or the work they've done off the pitch. The likes of Torpoint and Edgecumbe have come all the way through the Duchy system from division 5 in recent years, and thoroughly deserve their chance.Given the quality of players at these 4 clubs, they will be a credit to the ECPL, and would probably all finish comfortably in the top half of the ECPL Div1.

What do St Dennis offer? Poor (at best) changing facilities, average pitch, below average team.

Plus, they pulled out of the ECPL last year. We've seen enough of the old pals' act recently (Bude, St Blazey, Camelford WestinsurewesponsortheJuniorCupsoletusinwithateamthatdoesn'tyetexist) - hopefully we will now see teams promoted on merit.

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Sorry MattP but no matter how good they are Torpoint won't be promoted due to the simple reason that they already have a team in the league - in fact, a team that could well finish up champions.

As for St Stephen Borough - where will they be playing next season? Presumably there present pitch isn't good enough facility wise and so what are their plans to get around this and take their place in the Division One as Duchy League Champs. :unsure:

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It would appear St Stephen Borough are going to be playing on a plastic 3G pitch at Salt Mills Saltash. In cae there is an argument against this it would appear the CCFA will back St Stephen Borough if the league rejects them on those grounds. Looks like all the players will have to change their boots.

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How could St Stephens Borough be allowed into the ECPL playing at Sugar Mill? With clubs not being allowed into leagues with lack of facilities i would find it bizarre them gaining entry. I personally would find it unfair to allow them into the league whilst other clubs desperately upgrade their own facilities. Without a shadow of doubt their team deserve to be entered into the league but they need to address their facilities firstly.

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Unfortunatelty St Stephens play on a rented pitch, so the facilities are not theirs to upgrade.

It is not any different from Edgcumbe moving from Edgcumbe Park to HMS Raleigh to Millbrook as each promotion required better facilities.

If the team is good enough and they find a host ground, then good on them

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Just a quick message to Matt P, what gives you the right to run down a Football club that as been goimg for over a 100 years and have won the ECPL on three separate occasions with out losing a game.

Yes they did go through a sticky period a couple of seasons ago with regards to the structure of the club and yes did lat down the league.

Junior Cup finalists last season Possible Knockout Cup winners this, not bad for a crap side MATTP

As for the playing surface there isn't a better playinf surface around at the moment and as for the changing facilites being poor you need to wake up sir.

Edgcumbe might well have come up thorugh the duchy systems which is no mean feat but they made teams change in a cow shed and played on a pitch with sheep shit everywhere and never had the decentcy to remove.

St Stpehens deserve there right to play in the ECPL bu8t don't have a grass pitch so they can't be excepted, but i have it on good authority they will be excepted because the ccfa will back them.

As for running down St Dennis i suggest you get your head out your arse and remember they have better facilites and playing surface then any team you mentioned. BY THE WAY THEY ALSO OWN ALL OF IT

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This league is governed by the FA's "Common Ground Grading" and that says :

1.8 Pitch Standards : The playing surface will be grass, and must be of a high standard. It must be level and free from surface depressions and excessive undulations.

The maximum slope allowable shall not exceed an even gradient of vertical to horizontal 1 : 41 in any direction. The playing surface must be maintained to the highest possible standards. Artificial playing surfaces are not currently permitted in competitions under the control of The FA.

1.9 Playing Area : The playing area to be a minimum of 100 metres x 64 metres (110 yards x 70 yards) and should conform to the requirements of the Laws of the Game.

Goalposts and goal net supports should be of professional manufacture and conform to the current safety requirements and to the requirements of the Laws of the Game.

I went to a presentation in the Autumn where 3G pitches were discussed, the main problem appears that where they are provided is almost always as part of a fenced multi-sport site where spectators, railings, dug-outs are outside the fence - there is also a problem with the 1.8 meters run off area all around pitches as this area should be before any fence.

The above is a quote from Phil Hiscox,whose comments do not appear to bear out the remarks about FA support, certainly at Peninsula League level.

No dis-respect to the Club involved,but I consider it would not be a responsible step to take.

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It would appear that the CCFA have already given its backing for these types of pitches to be used in senior football including for St Stephens Borough. I think it was understood that these pitches could only be used for Junior football. I also understand it is causing a great deal of discussion with clubs more confused than anything rather than being absolutely against it. In all cases the safety of the players must come first so is this the right surface for teams to play on bearing in mind the home team will have a major advantage over their opponents who may have played the previous week on a mud heap only to play the following week on an artificial surface.

If the FA says that under :

1.8 Playing Standards : The playing surface will be grass. Then who are the CCFA to disagree with their bosses who they represent.

Nobody wants to deny a really good team like St Stephens Borough from taking their rightful place in the ECPL. But the overiding consideration has to be given to the safety of the players, the normal facilities such as dug outs, changing and spectator facilities etc

The other question is the Cornwall Senior Cup. Playing on an artificial surface will give the home team a distinct advantage.

I also cannot find under 'Cornwall County FA Rules and Articles of Association' anything that says what type of surface can be played on.

Perhaps John Meads can advise as this decision has opened up a minefield.

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Johnnie Bates is right, St Dennis do have excellent facilities, especially as you say when you compare it to other clubs in the league.

The only complaint I've heard is that the grass has been too long at St Dennis in the past, but that can be easily resolved.

Saying that as long as club's match the ground criteria required to enter the ECPL priority should go to sides that finish in the highest position in the Duchy League as they are clearly there on merit.

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Just to point out that the minimum size of a senior pitch as defined by the CCFA is 90 metres length & 45 metres breadth not the figures quoted previously in this topic.

Also senior cup rules do not state that the pitch has to be grass.

The pitch is sanctioned for senior football by the CCFA.

The points relating to dugouts and spectators have already been answered by the club to the East Cornwall League.

The pitch at Saltmill is used by Plymouth Argyle for training and for youth matches.

It is a senior pitch and if good enough for a championship side to use then surely it is food enough for the ECPL.

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Next up we will be playing on hard courts, clay, concrete, perhaps grass is now going out of fashion.

Why have an FA. Seems like the CCFA once again is getting away with bucking their bosses.

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There is nothing in the set criteria for a vote by the clubs.

This is a case of automatic promotion not of an application for membership.

The pitch is sanctioned by CCFA for senior football, the facilities meet the required standard therefore Borough are entitled to be promoted. It really is that simple.

As regards the FA - what did England play on in Russia?? Clearly artificial pitches are sanctioned for use in qualifying matches for the European Championships at international level.

Apologies for almost repeating myself - but if its good enough for international matches then surely its good enough for the ECPL.

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i dont know if this will help but trevenson who play in mining one were giving permission to use a artificial pitch this season . BUT they were also told they would have to have a grass pitch also avialable as each away team would have a choice to play on one or the other after a few weeks they realised most away teams wanted to play on grass so they gave up the other pitch .

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THE FACILITIES AT ST DENNIS ARE GOOD AND THEY ALWAYS WERE AN EAST CORNWALL LEAGUE SIDE, IN FACT THERE ARE ONE OF AN ELITE GROUP TO GO THE WHOLE SEASON UNDEFEATED. THERE POSITION IN THE DUCHY PREMIER DIVISON IS FALSE AS THEY HAVE SOME QUALITY PLAYERS IN THEIR TEAM. LEE RICKARD AND RICHARD ARE TWO THAT SPRING TO MIND

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If St Stephens Borough do use Salt Mill then i hope all parties involved playing there have sufficient insurance. I can foresee many injuries occuring there as like all artificial pitches there is no give to the ground. Are there going to be any dug outs? Also isn't the fencing a bit too close to the pitch? And what footwear should players wear? Is the league or St Stephens Borough going to supply adequate footwear or will this be additional cost to players for 1 game per season???????

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To answer the questions:

There is plenty of room between the fence and the pitch - so much so that the club would install additional perimeter fencing for spectators.

Dug outs will be provided.

As regards boots - surely in this day and age every player as a pair of 'mouldies'? The only boots not OK are those with metal studs.

I would also hazzard a guess that most players play on a similar type - albeit perhaps not as good! - either in 5-a-side or 6-a-side soccer or at training.

I really dont see what the problem is.

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I feel for St Stephens Borough, they won the Duchy League and should take their place in the ECPL. My only concerns are safety to players and unfair advantage. I fear the ECPL SGM and AGM will not be a pleasant place to be when this is discussed. Any league or affiliating body has to have a duty of care for its players. This is not 5 a side knock about stuff this is a full blooded and full contact sport played in all weathers.

What are the safeguards against plastic burns etc? Will a goalkeeper need to don a full set of safety equipment which will restrict his movement when making full length saves etc. Will a club or players normal insurance cover different types of injury which will occur on this type of surface. I would suggest clubs and players investigate this as an absolute priority.

I really do feel for St Stephens Borough as playing wise they have earned promotion but I would suggest this has not been properly thought through.

We are told by St Stephens Borough that 'the pitch is sanctioned by CCFA for senior football; the facilities meet the required standard'. No problem at all with that. PROOF please, is this written or verbal sanctioning by the CCFA? Can someone come on here with the definitive proof that the CCFA have sanctioned it? Just because the CCFA have supposedly sanctioned the pitch it does not mean either they are right or cannot be challenged.

Possibly up to 250 players a season will be asked to take their chances on this type of surface. Is this fair or indeed is it right.

Can St Stephen not find another pitch? Is it a short term thing or are we talking a permanent move. Can St Stephen be given a certain amount of time to find a pitch or could they be made to play all their games away (just like Plymouth Parkway did in the CSWL).

Its no fun being a devils advocate but I repeat safety and fairness has to be the over riding factor.

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Guest Phil H

There continues to be significant interest in the use of artificial grass pitches for clubs in the National League System and below. Part of this interest has been driven by the successful installations in England at Woodley Sports, Unibond League and Durham City, Northern League.

Much of this interest, both from leagues and clubs within the non-league pyramid, seeks to understand The FA’s position regarding the sanction of these pitches, particularly in FA Competitions.

Following the introduction of artificial grass pitches into some FA competitions last season, the various FA Committees have again approved the use of such pitches in their respective competitions for season 2008/09:

• FA Trophy

• FA Vase

• FA Youth Cup (qualifying rounds only)

• FA Women’s Premier League and Cup

• FA Sunday Cup

• FA County Youth Cup

The use of such pitches is however dependent on compliance with conditions of use

It has been agreed therefore that matches from next season may be played on artificial grass pitches that conform to the FIFA 1 star standard, or the equivalent International Artificial Turf Standard (IATS) in all FA Competitions, except the FA Cup (all rounds) and FA Youth Cup (Rounds proper).

To qualify for use, the pitch must be certified by The FA as meeting the FIFA 1 Star standard or the equivalent International Artificial Turf Standard. The relevant certificate must be supplied to the FA and relevant competition before play is allowed.

Clubs should make their own risk assessment of whether such an installation is plausible or not given their individual circumstances. There is a risk that pitches may deteriorate over time and may not achieve the required standards at each period of retesting. It is suggested that clubs negotiate suitable longevity warranties from the carpet manufacturers to ensure that the pitch will last in line with the Club’s business plan and intended usage levels. A sinking fund should be established too to ensure sufficient funds are available when the carpet needs replacing.

Clubs are encouraged to understand the full maintenance required, which may be necessary to validate any warranty.

Steve Williams

National Facilities Manager

April 2008

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Excellent piece. Unfortunately there does not seem to be an agreement by the FA for leagues to accept these types of pitches, unless of course the leagues themselves agree to the use. Is this correct If it is up to the league then the league themselves must decide.

The other thing is what on earth has it got to do with the CCFA. The ECPL has clubs from both Devon and Cornwall, so why should a Devon club be ordered to play on this type of surface by another county association.

It would appear these are the only FA Competitions that can have matches played on.

• FA Trophy

• FA Vase

• FA Youth Cup (qualifying rounds only)

• FA Women’s Premier League and Cup

• FA Sunday Cup

• FA County Youth Cup

Leagues such as the Unibond League (Woodley Sports) and Northern League (Durham City) must have agreed to having teams with this type of surface in their constitution. So why cannot the ECPL decide.

Where does it say who has the definitive ruling on the type of surface the league plays on. Is it the FA, County Assoociations or leagues

Just because the CCFA has sanctioned these type of surfaces, it does not say who has the final say?.

WHO DOES?

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All such pitches have to produce a certificate to FA each May/June to prove they are up to standard.I suggest that the Management Committee require this and then leave it all up to the Member Clubs.There is no way this can be forced onto the League.It is a domestic matter for each League to decide.

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"We are told by St Stephens Borough that 'the pitch is sanctioned by CCFA for senior football; the facilities meet the required standard'. No problem at all with that. PROOF please, is this written or verbal sanctioning by the CCFA? Can someone come on here with the definitive proof that the CCFA have sanctioned it? "

Thats easy - I have the e mail from CCFA.

Criteria for promotion clearly states that in the event of a dispute between the applicant club and the ECPL then the CCFA would adjudicate.

Those are the rules and should be adhered to.

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Guest footyfan123

Just to add another topic in here as i am sure it will be discussed at the meetings... What do people feel about having to cross the water more times with the apparent applications from 3 plymouth clubs?

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this is by no means against st. stephens as they have done really well and, unfortunately, don't have the resources but it may seem menial to some but many players wear blades ( plastic or metal ) and I don't think these can be used on 3g pitches, correct me if i'm wrong please. goals in plymouth won't allow it for player and pitch safety.

also, the advantage of playing every week on that is huge. I really wouldn't want to play a full blooded game on that.

I feel for St. S borough, but once again the shambolic FA of Cornwall come up with this. Haven't they destroyed the league enough with the new formats and cup systems? It's a shadow of it's former self in quality.

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Is there anyway Borough Sec that the full email is posted on here and not just one sentance of it. The CCFA must have given reasons.

Answer to footyfan123

The ECPL is for clubs from both Devon & Cornwall so not a problem. I think that has been in the constitution since the league started or for at least many years. in any case clubs will be playing on excelent falt surfaces with good facilities.

Its odd how the world goes around. Many of the teams playing now in the Duchy League and ECPL were members of the old Plymouth & Dsitrict or Plymouth Combination Leagues.

Answer to rawa.

It is the clubs of the ECPL who decided on the league cup format. The format was put forward by the vice chairman and was accepted by the member clubs. The league had to progress and was increased to 28 teams so that the league could have two divisions of 14 which was only 26 league games per club. The clubs voted in the league cup format and then voted for it to be changed to a regional basis.

Thankfully that is all in the past and is now history. With 32 teams in the league they can now have 16 in each division. The league cup I assume will be a straight knockout plus a supplementary losers cup. The clubs could of course have 8 groups of 4 teams with the top two teams from each group going on to the first round but I doubt it.

Who knows what will happen we will have to wait and see.

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Is there anyway Borough Sec that the full email is posted on here and not just one sentance of it. The CCFA must have given reasons.

Maybe I am simplifying things a little, but what makes you think that the CCFA would have felt obliged to give any reasons in the form of a reply to say a basic and straightforward question such as : ".... to assist in our application to the East Cornwall Premier League for season 2008/09. I would be grateful if you could confirm as soon as possible that the pitch is sanctioned for senior football." :blink:

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Competition rules on 3G 5 a side pitches such as Goals in Plymouth is that there are no slide tackles allowed. This is obviously for a player safety reason. Having played last night i am sporting a beauty of a carpet burn..... just from being tackled. I couldn't think of the damage a full blooded sliding tackle would do. Also, surely St Stephens would have a clear advantage of playing on this surface every other week as well as training on it :SM_carton: :SM_carton:

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I think I might be a bit old fashioned here. Surely if the CCFA advise a club that their pitch is sanctioned for playing senior football on then shouldn't they inform the clubs and leagues that they are responsible for and give reasons or quote some FA ruling. Or is it all hush, hush and on a need to know basis.

It matters not whether we agree with their decision but just to sit back with your paws out and expect to have your tummy tickled surely cannot be acceptable.

Is there something on the CCFA web site advising of this, I haven't found it although that is not to say it is not there. But to send an email to a club to say yes your surface is fine to play on but not to inform the league or other clubs in writing of its ruling is rather bizarre. It is all very well the CCFA discussing with the league this particular type of surface but issues the threat that if the leagues clubs say no we are not having it and then warns the league that they will back the club for playing on that type of surface without documentary prrof. Then that sounds a little sinister to me.

Anyone seen anything about this on the CCFA web site. If so please advise us all

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But to send an email to a club to say yes your surface is fine to play on but not to inform the league or other clubs in writing of its ruling is rather bizarre.

This is the CCFA you know! :D

Perhaps the league might have to go and ask the CCFA for direction on this one and quickly. Seems to me that a huge problem brewing here!

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If the League (or indeed the CCFA as the sanctioning body) do prohibit the use of 3G artificial surfaces, in my opinion it will be a massive mistake. These pitches aren't the plastic horrors of Luton & QPR of years gone by. Within a decade or so, it would not surprise me to see several of these pitches in all leagues. If only a club in the Football League or the Premier League bit the bullet and installed one, I'm sure others would soon follow.

As mentioned earlier on in the thread, Woodley Sports and Durham City are able to use them, at a far higher standard than the East Cornwall League, and they are OK for use in the FA Trophy, FA Vase and of course the European Championships. As part of community facilities they are easier to maintain, and able to be used for a number of other things beside football. They are also commonplace in many other countries - why are the British always the last to adopt new ideas?

--

Richard

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Richard,it is probably more likely that these pitches will be maintained better at higher level and cause fewer problems.

As it is the FA require strict Annual inspection and certification and registration with the FA.

Do you really think this would work down below level 7?

It would be far more prudent to maintain status quo.

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What is meant by Membered Clubs ?

I am led to believe that membered clubs have a say in how there league is run............. if so why is it that St Stephens Borough pitch has been excepted by the CCFA when only one club voted for it when asked by the ECPL. You will run your league as you see fit unless of course we don't agree with what the membered clubs have voted for. WHY HAVE A VOTE!! DO AS YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD

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Without wishing to repeat myself - there is nothing in the laid down criteria for promotion from the Duchy League to the ECPL requiring a vote by the clubs.

A club simply has to have the laid down facilities - which Saltmill does - and if not accepted then the club has a right to seek CCFA adjudication.

In reality the pitch doesnt come into it as it is accepted by the Football Association and sanctioned for senior football by the CCFA.

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No disrespect to Borough Secretary, you deserve your chance been against while at a couple of juniors clubs and always treated us with respect. My point was why was the clubs of the east cornwall league asked if they would except you pitch when clearly it doesn't matter that 95% voted against the pitch only to be told that the CCFA MAKES THE RULES where a Club Can and Can't Play.

Good Luck next season to Borough very well run club and a team that tries to play the right way

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What happens if a player turns up with the wrong studs? Who will tell him he can't play? What if the ref turns up with the wrong boots? Answers on a postcard please!

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Guest thebigfella

Can anyone confirm that Plymouth Parkway have made an application to join the league? They would be an excellent addition but what do people think of this? Tamarside have been a revelation since joining the league but they are, at least, only just over the bridge.

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Guest Borough Manager

I have be reading with interest the debate which has been taking place and thought I would add a bit since I manage the team in question. The club has been working hard over the course of the season to try and secure a grass pitch which meets the required standard and belief me when I say that we have tried and tried but to no avail. We would of course love to find a grass pitch and play on that and we will continue to search for a grass pitch even if/when we are promoted to ECPL. Having taken the team right up from duchy four winning division one last year and the premier league this year I do feel that we have the right to pick our wits in East Cornwall even if that means having to play on a artificial pitch. A comment was made about the safety of the players. I need to put the welfare of my players at the heart of any decision and given that we will be playing on this surface approximately 20 times a season rather than once or twice like the rest of the teams it would stand to reason that my players are at greatest risk of injury if indeed the assumption made is true that you are more likely to get injured playing on this surface. I have undertaken research and there is no published evidence that proves players are at greater risk of injury playing on this surface compared to grass and if I thought there was the smallest increased risk I would not support our committee’s decision to use the pitch. At the end of the day it’s a game of football and we all have families to support and need to work on Monday morning.

Someone also mentioned having an unfair advantage using the pitch. Well hasn’t it always been the case that the team playing at home as a advantage. Whether your home pitch is narrow, long, big, small, has a slope the home team is always bound to have an slight advantage this is why we play home and away and why statistically it is much more difficult to win away. As for the playing surface well of course you would take a well maintained, well watered, perfectly flat, lawned grass pitch anytime but how often is this the case throughout the course of a season. Compared to playing on a muddy, waterlogged pitch in February or March or a rock hard pitch in August, September or April/May then give me the new 3G pitch any day.

The English FA and Sport England are investing millions of pounds on these new pitches throughout the country so I'm afraid it is surely a question of when leagues allow clubs in using these pitches not if. I do understand teams apprehension but technology does move on and if it is good enough for England to play on then surely ECPL can embrace this new technology as has happened elsewhere in the country.

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A good set of points. Although the anger at England having to play in Moscow was well documented. Isn't it odd that England were forced to play Russia on that surface. England won the home match 3-0 and the defeat in Mosocw on the plastic pitch by 2-1 eventually cost England a Euro 2008 place. So much for the FA in doing England that favour because it is Russia who are in the Euro 2008 championship finals by finishing second and not England. It is Russia who will play in Group D against Greece, Sweden and Spain. The Croatia result would have been irrelivant so well done the FA for putting English football last.

St Stephens Borough have every right to take their place in the ECPL and nobody will ever dispute that. Because the FA and Sport England are pushing this type of surface it does not mean that it is right.

We have gone through this before with clubs such as Derby County and QPR taking this route and yes it was ditched as quickly as it could be. And yes technology has improved tremendously. Unfortunately it is known that the FA are pushing this type of surface because it means money coming in to the FA, but that does not mean it is safe to play on

You say 'I have undertaken research and there is no published evidence that proves players are at greater risk of injury playing on this surface compared to grass' Unfortunately its no different than saying speed traps reduce death on the roads and another study says it makes no difference. Everyone will take the study that agrees with their thoughts and views.

What is worrying is that the CCFA for whatever reason have failed to inform at least the ECPL of its decision in writing and why. But there again when has the CCFA put players and clubs before their own biased views.

At least one club I know is advising its players to take out separate insurance for this type of surface. What if that insurance company says no.

There is no question that there would be an unfair advantage of the home team playing on that surface next season in 15 home games. Football is a 9 month of the year sport Yes there will be beautiful pitches to start the season, then comes rain to make the pitches very muddy and possibly ice or snow which will firm the pitches up. This has been an unusual season as the pitches at the end of the season are in a pretty decent condition although usually bare, bumpy and dust blown

The teams who play the best in all those conditions over 9 months would deserve to be called champions. Unfortunately by playing half of your games on an artificial pitch would be a distinct advantage.

It makes me wonder if your team was already in the league playing on a grass surface, would you be saying the same thing if another team was given permission to play on a plastic pitch. I think not.

The other interesting point is does St Stephens Borough FC intend to stay there ior is this a one off season.

This is a very interesting subject and it is good that people are becoming involved. Some may think its a great idea but I would imagine the overwhelming majority would as was raised at the recent ECPL meeting would be massively against it.

But since when were players and clubs ever consulted It appears to be FA driven.

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