Cornish Football Pyramid and Promotion

[FutureGK]

Evening folks 

With the season drawing to a close are we any the wiser on the new structure of steps 6 and 7 ? 
 

Currently only 16 teams SWPL west and 14 St Pirans west , am I correct in thinking SWPL west should be 18 teams and St Pirans west 16? 

St Just, Pendeen and St Ives up from combo and likely Truro promoted  from St Pirans which then gives St Pirans west 16 teams 

But SWPL West only 17?

@Steve Carpenter @Dave Deacon

Any ideas gents ? 

[Steve Carpenter]

Providing the 3 clubs you mention finish in the top 5 of the Combination then St Piran West will be as you describe with two promoted as of right and one filling a vacancy.  In the East Division the same applies to North Petherwin and Liskeard Reserves which would take that division to 15.

With St Blazey likely to go up and one of Truro, Mousehole and St Day to replace them how to get SWPL West up in numbers is very much up to the FA.  Due to our unique geography I'm sure Phil will have an input and I wouldn't want to second guess that process or outcome but there is only one obvious solution.

[FutureGK]

9 hours ago, Steve Carpenter said:

Providing the 3 clubs you mention finish in the top 5 of the Combination then St Piran West will be as you describe with two promoted as of right and one filling a vacancy.  In the East Division the same applies to North Petherwin and Liskeard Reserves which would take that division to 15.

With St Blazey likely to go up and one of Truro, Mousehole and St Day to replace them how to get SWPL West up in numbers is very much up to the FA.  Due to our unique geography I'm sure Phil will have an input and I wouldn't want to second guess that process or outcome but there is only one obvious solution.

 

9 hours ago, Steve Carpenter said:

Providing the 3 clubs you mention finish in the top 5 of the Combination then St Piran West will be as you describe with two promoted as of right and one filling a vacancy.  In the East Division the same applies to North Petherwin and Liskeard Reserves which would take that division to 15.

With St Blazey likely to go up and one of Truro, Mousehole and St Day to replace them how to get SWPL West up in numbers is very much up to the FA.  Due to our unique geography I'm sure Phil will have an input and I wouldn't want to second guess that process or outcome but there is only one obvious solution.

Thank you @Steve Carpenter so the obvious solution is 4 up from combo to St Pirans West (is this doable with ground grading) and 2 promoted from St Pirans west to SWPL west ? It will be interesting to see if the FA would do this locally or do a geographical reshuffle based on PPG ?

hoping @Dave Deacon can ask Phil on this weeks podcast 👍
 

 

[Steve Carpenter]

43 minutes ago, FutureGK said:

 

Thank you @Steve Carpenter so the obvious solution is 4 up from combo to St Pirans West (is this doable with ground grading) and 2 promoted from St Pirans west to SWPL west ? It will be interesting to see if the FA would do this locally or do a geographical reshuffle based on PPG ?

hoping @Dave Deacon can ask Phil on this weeks podcast 👍
 

 

Only one can be promoted from each St Piran division and St Dominic accept that they will fall short on ground grading.  Promotion from the ECPL/Combo is by application and only the clubs named have applied. Depending on how the numbers break down further east and on the number settled on for SWPL West the obvious solution is, as before, Devon border teams playing in the west.  I would emphasise again though that that is very much a matter for Phil and the FA.

[THEMAGPIE]

Does Tregye pass SWPL ground grading? 

[John Mead]

1 hour ago, THEMAGPIE said:

Does Tregye pass SWPL ground grading? 

Ground Grading at Tregye this week!

[FutureGK]

2 hours ago, Steve Carpenter said:

Only one can be promoted from each St Piran division and St Dominic accept that they will fall short on ground grading.  Promotion from the ECPL/Combo is by application and only the clubs named have applied. Depending on how the numbers break down further east and on the number settled on for SWPL West the obvious solution is, as before, Devon border teams playing in the west.  I would emphasise again though that that is very much a matter for Phil and the FA.

Thanks Steve it’s sounds as though Phil and the FA have a job on their hands, with SWPL EAST having 19 teams currently one gos up to WL leaving 18. I guess for one to be moved to SWPL west they would need and additional team 🤯

Hats off to all of you that unpick this 

[Reesy]

Reading some previous posts, it appears a few sides from the Combo have applied for the St Pirans League. This is nothing against one of these applicant sides as they have had some fantastic teams over the years. I don't think anyone would argue they should be playing in the St Pirans League.  However, how an earth do they pass the ground grading with the undulating pitch surface. Us at Perranwell were forced to move 2 years ago from our home ground which falls outside of the ground grading criteria. No arguments from us as the slope clearly exceeds the allowed limits. The result of move has been financially crippling for the club who have played at this level with considerable success since the 70's. I'm pretty sure there are other grounds around the county at St Pirans League which technically fall outside of the criteria but seem not to have been effected. 

Below is the ground grading criteria for St Pirans. I'm pretty sure some other long standing clubs will also fall outside of this criteria if it was put to the test. Surely it's about time the FA recognise this and give some dispensation to clubs in Cornwall. The structure and nature of the game here is a different kettle of fish compared to other areas throughout the country. The game is struggling at grass roots level and things like this make it even harder to operate. 

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The playing surface will be grass, unless otherwise authorised by the respective League Rules and must be of an acceptable standard. It must be free from surface depressions and excessive undulations.

The maximum slope allowable shall not exceed an even gradient of vertical to horizontal 1 : 41 in any direction.

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[Steve Carpenter]

1 hour ago, Reesy said:

Reading some previous posts, it appears a club a few sides from the Combo have applied for the St Pirans League. This is nothing against one of these applicant sides as they have had some fantastic teams over the years. I don't think anyone would argue they should be playing in the St Pirans League.  However, how an earth do they pass the ground grading with the undulating pitch surface. Us at Perranwell were forced to move 2 years ago from our home ground which falls outside of the ground grading criteria. No arguments from us as the slope clearly exceeds the allowed limits. The result of move has been financially crippling for the club who have played at this level with considerable success since the 70's. I'm pretty sure there are other grounds around the county at St Pirans League which technically fall outside of the criteria but seem not to have been effected. 

Below is the ground grading criteria for St Pirans. I'm pretty sure some other long standing clubs will also fall outside of this criteria if it was put to the test. Surely it's about time the FA recognise this and give some dispensation to clubs in Cornwall. The structure and nature of the game here is a different kettle of fish compared to other areas throughout the country. The game is struggling at grass roots level and things like this make it even harder to operate. 

**********************************************************************************************************************************

The playing surface will be grass, unless otherwise authorised by the respective League Rules and must be of an acceptable standard. It must be free from surface depressions and excessive undulations.

The maximum slope allowable shall not exceed an even gradient of vertical to horizontal 1 : 41 in any direction.

**********************************************************************************************************************************

 

I have explained at least two or three time to other representatives of Perranwell that all clubs currently in membership of the St Piran League are fully compliant with the ground grading criteria so that particular claim is getting a tad drawn out now.  From what I can gather the village Parish Council haven't exactly been helpful in your efforts to get the village pitch levelled to within the criteria.

We do take on the FA where we believe we have a case and have done so this season where a change was issued to the grading criteria which made a minimum pitch size of 100m x 64m mandatory at Feeder League level.  That was clearly unsustainable in Cornwall and after our pleas were rejected we went back into battle and eventually it was changed to 'strongly recommended' that the pitch be that size.  With only Perranwell to quote as an example of a club where the pitch slope exceeds the requirement we have a weak case to argue unlike the pitch size argument where we made the case with the support of the Devon League and the Leicester Senior League. 

[Reesy]

As I said, we know the pitch at Perranwell isn’t compliant. Just beggars belief that one of next seasons applicants has passed the grading when it’s probably the most undulating pitch I’ve come across at any level of football. Doesn’t seem to be much consistency. Nice to see that the FA have been taken on to help some clubs. 

[Richard Chown]

Personally I think the St Pirans League is the same standard as the old Combo League before the restructuring. As such the FA should have common sense and move the Ground Gradings up a step unless the FA are fully willing to pay for clubs to upgrade. Madness to expect clubs to fork up upgrading their facilities for what is essentially Recreational football. 

[Postman Pat]

What is the situation with St. Ives ground please. I thought they were going to have 2 pitches by moving in further and using some of the carpark. Or has this all fallen through.

[Steve Carpenter]

9 minutes ago, Postman Pat said:

What is the situation with St. Ives ground please. I thought they were going to have 2 pitches by moving in further and using some of the carpark. Or has this all fallen through.

They were.  Plans and funding were in place and, I believe, the council backed the project until some local residents objected.  Backing withdrawn as a result and the funding followed.

 

4 hours ago, Richard Chown said:

Personally I think the St Pirans League is the same standard as the old Combo League before the restructuring. As such the FA should have common sense and move the Ground Gradings down a step unless the FA are fully willing to pay for clubs to upgrade. Madness to expect clubs to fork up upgrading their facilities for what is essentially Recreational football. 

Won't happen Richard.  The feeder leagues are the stepping stone to the NLS and the first stage at which ground grading can be enforced.  The remit is to prepare those clubs for Step 6 on and off the field and significant grant funding is available even if it does need the club to raise their contribution.  It can be done if you have the right people on board and there are good examples of what can be achieved.

[Reesy]

So how is the St Ives pitch free of surface depressions and excessive undulations? 

[Richard Chown]

3 hours ago, Steve Carpenter said:

They were.  Plans and funding were in place and, I believe, the council backed the project until some local residents objected.  Backing withdrawn as a result and the funding followed.

 

Won't happen Richard.  The feeder leagues are the stepping stone to the NLS and the first stage at which ground grading can be enforced.  The remit is to prepare those clubs for Step 6 on and off the field and significant grant funding is available even if it does need the club to raise their contribution.  It can be done if you have the right people on board and there are good examples of what can be achieved.

Appreciate the comment Steve but I think the SWPL without the merger at the Step they are at is NLS in all but name now, hence clubs looking for promotion to Western Premier which is a good thing. NLS should be what is now Western League with SWPL being the stepping stone. Hopefully the stepping stone will happen with the merger in the future. 
 

My gripe isn’t with the St Pirans League it’s with the FA with expecting clubs to reach a certain standard without backing it up financially. 
 

Clubs get shafted if they are not basically charity status. 

[Steve Carpenter]

9 hours ago, Richard Chown said:

Appreciate the comment Steve but I think the SWPL without the merger at the Step they are at is NLS in all but name now, hence clubs looking for promotion to Western Premier which is a good thing. NLS should be what is now Western League with SWPL being the stepping stone. Hopefully the stepping stone will happen with the merger in the future. 
 

My gripe isn’t with the St Pirans League it’s with the FA with expecting clubs to reach a certain standard without backing it up financially. 
 

Clubs get shafted if they are not basically charity status. 

Don't forget Richard that as this is a national system the ground requirements are progressive through the levels.  If what you suggest was to happen and grading was only to start at SWPL level (I think that's what you're saying), and I don't think for one minute that it will, the ground requirements couldn't change otherwise the difference would become disproportional between the Western League (Grade 5) and the SWPL (Grade 6 & 7) and expensive to implement.  Feeder Leagues are Grade 8.  

There is financial backing available and you most certainly don't just have to be a charity to gain access.  Dan Greenough at Cornwall FA is excellent at identifying funds for clubs and helping them through the process.  I'm not saying it's easy but it can be done and many clubs have projects underway.  The only thing that is certain is that it won't come to you.  Clubs have to be proactive in the process and ideally have someone to take on the work.  Take a look here: https://footballfoundation.org.uk/looking-for-funding?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=brand&gclid=CjwKCAjw_YShBhAiEiwAMomsECAqSVIODItKXCfwTekzpFL6rC4iZVp-a7Ph-RJEth-jTbHWWqtBaRoC8-oQAvD_BwE

It's also sounding likely that the Football Foundation will be taking over Ground Grading sometime in the (possibly very near) future.  The FA will still set the criteria.