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RESULTS - SATURDAY 18 FEBRUARY 2023


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3 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Why they're having to trial it first beggars belief!

Pure politics. They will demonstrate it works, just like the sin bin IF the refs would use it. Then it will be ditched at the higher levels because the TV companies will demand access to it live and that will be denied, trial over.

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Do bodycams stop emergency workers getting abused/intimidated/assaulted? No.

Will they prevent referees from being abused/intimidated/assaulted? No.

 

Theres also a whole world of trouble on the horizon when it comes to data protection laws, cost issues and filming U18’s.

 

Bodycams won’t be the saviour that Martin Cassidy (refsupportUK) believes they will be.

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Isn't it sad that we even have to think about bodycams for refs? It's bad enough that some people behave so badly that the likes of police and ambulance crews have to have them when they are on the front line of genuine crises, but talking about them in a bid to protect someone who is giving up their time so others can have a game of football is just sheer bloody madness. It shows how low general standards of behaviour seem to have fallen, not just in football but in some parts of society as well. Sure, football is a passionate game, but there's a line between passion and thuggery and abuse. Too often in football, at all levels, that line is crossed. I have always loved football but so much of the behaviour in it these days makes me question whether it is still worth it. Bodycams for refs - how low have we sunk? So sad.

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It's not the FA that have prevented the use of body cams, but the law makers, IFAB albeit the FA have previously stood behind the laws of the game in their approach and of course make up part of the board. 

Currently, in the LOTG under law 5: "Referees and other ‘on-field’ match officials are prohibited from wearing 
jewellery or any other electronic equipment, including cameras."

Refsupport UK have been championing their use for a few years now. 

Do I think they are the answer? No

Will they help? Possibly

Does something have to change in football? Absolutely yes.

The one law that everyone forgets is again in law 5:

Decisions will be made to the best of the referee's ability according to the Laws 
of the Game and the ‘spirit of the game’ and will be based on the opinion of the 
referee, who has the discretion to take appropriate action within the 
framework of the Laws of the Game.
The decisions of the referee regarding facts connected with play, including 
whether or not a goal is scored and the result of the match, are final. The 
decisions of the referee, and all other match officials, must always be respected.

Sadly, this does not happen. No matter how poor you perceive a referees performance, it does not mitigate unnaceptable behaviour in football, some in this thread would do well to remember that.

Of course referees are not immune from criticism, but the abuse that some referees are subjected to, verbal, as well as physical is completely unacceptable. There are proper channels for reporting a referee for their performance. 

I was not at this game so can't comment on specifics. But, in terms of what has been stated happened in this thread: once dismissed, a player/team official are required by the laws of the game to leave the immediate vicinity of the field of play. The only exception to this is the named physio on the team sheet.

There are countless examples across the country where failure to do that has resulted in referee's abandoning games.

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26 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Has the Sin Bin failed to be used as perhaps it was intended? 

The FA recently wrote to all referees to remind them about using the sin bin. I think the sin bin works, when it is used in the proper way, be that as a deterrent or punishment. I think the game has evolved to a level where referees almost expect, or worse, accept the dissent and abuse so struggle to recognise what is dissent and what is honest "can you please explain" (sadly these conversations become arguments rather than acceptance or understanding). 

My personal opinion is that it should have been top down I e. PL. What we see at grassroots all emulates from what is seen on tele.

There are referees that simply don't use the sin bin or don't use it enough, and so where we see players and managers emulate how they see their role models behave on the Tele, referees are not immune to that and emulate their refereeing role models as well. Seeing Michael Oliver or Anthony Taylor use sin bins would, I think, lead to a dramatic increase in its usage throughout football.

In the LOTG there's a nice prefix about how the laws are the same wherever the game is played but with VAR and sin bins we are slowly moving towards two sets of rules. (The statement is technically still true because law 1 -17 have not changed, the protocols for sin bins and VAR are in law but are a competition rule as opposed to LOTG.)

 

 

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2 hours ago, St Darren said:

I think the body cans are more for the physical violence that the referees may receive. Thdnkfully hasn't happened on many occasions down this way. 

Fear that it's only a matter of time before a referee is assaulted during or after the game. Agree with CupFootballBlogger about it being a sad state of affairs that body cams for officials are now being openly proposed, and the reasons normalised. What next, stab vests as part of a ref's kit?

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What gets me on this Forum are armchair critics who dont even go to the matches but copy other peoples reports and make out they was at the matches when they where not .

Last comment from me St Blazey where no angels yesterday Martin Giles should of got a red for a bad foul he did but did not Tornado Bello got whacked in the face ,both teams dished out some rough stuff yesterday but Bude are getting a reputation for being a dirty team and on the 4 times i have watched them they deserve it .

I expect the replay will be midweek match which will be  a pity because i wouldnt be there for that 1 Think Blazey will win the replay but they need to start with River Allen on the Bench . 

Ok thats my lot got a lot calmer game this Saturday Newquay vs Callington 

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1 minute ago, Way Of The Park said:

Fear that it's only a matter of time before a referee is assaulted during or after the game. Agree with CupFootballBlogger about it being a sad state of affairs that body cams for officials are now being openly proposed, and the reasons normalised. What next, stab vests as part of a ref's kit?

You think that isn't happening/hasn't happened already? 

Referees are being assaulted during and after games on a weekly basis all around the country and the world. 

Just this season we had a referee detained in his changing room against his will so it's happening in Cornwall too.

I'll raise you, it's only a matter of time before a referee is left with life changing/limiting injuries or even killed whilst undertaking their hobby as a referee. 

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3 minutes ago, 100%cornish said:

What gets me on this Forum are armchair critics who dont even go to the matches but copy other peoples reports and make out they was at the matches when they where not .

Last comment from me St Blazey where no angels yesterday Martin Giles should of got a red for a bad foul he did but did not Tornado Bello got whacked in the face ,both teams dished out some rough stuff yesterday but Bude are getting a reputation for being a dirty team and on the 4 times i have watched them they deserve it .

I expect the replay will be midweek match which will be  a pity because i wouldnt be there for that 1 Think Blazey will win the replay but they need to start with River Allen on the Bench . 

Ok thats my lot got a lot calmer game this Saturday Newquay vs Callington 

There won't be a replay. The points will probably be awarded to Blazey and Bude will get themselves a heavy fine, some bans and a possible points deduction 

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2 minutes ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

You think that isn't happening/hasn't happened already? 

Referees are being assaulted during and after games on a weekly basis all around the country and the world. 

Just this season we had a referee detained in his changing room against his will so it's happening in Cornwall too.

I'll raise you, it's only a matter of time before a referee is left with life changing/limiting injuries or even killed whilst undertaking their hobby as a referee. 

This from Ireland last November. https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/dublin-soccer-referees-to-strike-following-recent-alleged-assault-incidents-42118842.html

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I agree i do talk rubbish on here at times but i am very passionate about local football and it has helped me get through lots of dark times so i apologise if i get on some peoples nerves but thats  honest my honest opinion 

Onto the match i think the reason Bude kicked off was because Martin Giles and another Blazey player who took Tornado werent punished as badly as there players Marika and Billy Hopcroft everyone around me said Giles should of been sent off but stayed in the field .In the picture i have put up think this was the only time the players where friendly to each other 

 

The 2nd half was just like whoever has the ball lets get him and it just wasnt Bude players but there was no need for the Bude manager to get his phone out and start filming the ref never seen Fergie do that .

Had to feel for the ref he must of been frightened with all the players around him and the size of some of the Bude players they would be better on a rugby pitch i dont know whats in the water at Bude but they are big buggers in that team wish i had arms the size of some of those players .

So no replay then myself and some others down Blazey on Saturday where told by a Official there would be a replay because the time it was abandoned was not past the 70 min mark ,similair happened at Godolphin at the begining of the season when a player was injured and the ref called the match off the points where awarded to i think it was Blazey then on that occasion .

Ok lets wait and see what the verdict is replay fine or points awarded if Blazey get the points i bet Bude Appeal .Ok people have a good week and to Rappo enjoy your holiday Iwill keep you up to date in the NEWQUAY VS CALLINGTON match 

DSCN7190.JPG

Martin Giles explaining to the ref he cant get his leg up that high to of committed the foul 

DSCN7282.JPG

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31 minutes ago, Way Of The Park said:

Strikes have been attempted and haven't got off the ground.

I recall a league in Liverpool suspended all fixtures but I don't recall seeing any output from that...has behaviour improved? 

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There is no simple answer to the hooligan attitude of some players that referees have to deal with, but I strongly believe that the F.A. can help reduce the problem by abandoning the club marking scheme that appears to stop referees from applying all rules of the game for fear of being marked down by a disgruntled club official.
A club could still be allowed to complain to the County F.A. officials who could send an assesor to make a more iunbiased opinion of the refs ability.
That may not satisfy a perceived performance of an official in a particular match, but bearing in mind that we all have an off day, ( players included ) the performance of a referee would get a more balanced outcome.
In the professional Premier League,match officials are evaluated every match by a former senior referee ( Match Delegate )
The FA are concerned about grassroot football, and could at least help the situation by dropping the club marking system.

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3 hours ago, 100%cornish said:

 

Onto the match i think the reason Bude kicked off was because Martin Giles and another Blazey player who took Tornado werent punished as badly as there players Marika and Billy Hopcroft everyone around me said Giles should of been sent off but stayed in the field .

 

So no replay then myself and some others down Blazey on Saturday where told by a Official there would be a replay because the time it was abandoned was not past the 70 min mark ,similair happened at Godolphin at the begining of the season when a player was injured and the ref called the match off the points where awarded to i think it was Blazey then on that occasion .

DSCN7190.JPG

DSCN7282.JPG


Watched the match 10 yards up from the home dugout and no one around me saw any deliberate foul on Tornado to which you refer to. Not once can I remember the referee speaking to the Blazey management, but must have been at least 6 times to the Bude dugout.

The match against Godolphin you refer to was abandoned  because a Blazey fan collapsed and a ambulance needed, not a player injured. You were right it happened just before 70 mins. I believe the result stood which was agreed between the 2 teams and later verified by the league.

Blazey v Bude should result in a fine for Bude and the 3pts for Blazey in my opinion.
 

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As the game had not reached the 70 minute mark, I suspect that the game will be replayed?

It would be unfair on the other clubs chasing the top positions to gift St Blazey the 3 points when Bude could have possibly  salvaged something from the game.

If CCFA decide to dish out financial penalties as a result of the referees report that is a different matter altogether.

Watch this space

 

 

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1 hour ago, justanopinion said:

Do you have any evidence that the club marking is not working? It is my understanding that clubs in this league are required to use a different and more detailed marking system this season where a mark is not actually given. It might be interesting to hear some feedback at the end of season.

If it's the same as St Piran and ECPL it's still marks /100 on 3 topics with a 40/30/30 split for "overall decision making", "judgement of major decisions" and "general control & player management."

If any secretary/club official needs guidance on how to use the marking scheme I know full well they will be gratefully assisted by the CCFA so they can mark accurately and justify it their reasons correctly. 

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6 minutes ago, Pedro said:

As the game had not reached the 70 minute mark, I suspect that the game will be replayed?

It would be unfair on the other clubs chasing the top positions to gift St Blazey the 3 points when Bude could have possibly  salvaged something from the game.

If CCFA decide to dish out financial penalties as a result of the referees report that is a different matter altogether.

Watch this space

 

 

Conversely, to force it to be replayed would be harsh on Blazey who were blameless imo regarding the abandonment. 1-0 up with 30 minutes to go against 10 men is a big advantage to be nullified. 

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17 minutes ago, Foul Throw 3 said:

If it's the same as St Piran and ECPL it's still marks /100 on 3 topics with a 40/30/30 split for "overall decision making", "judgement of major decisions" and "general control & player management."

If any secretary/club official needs guidance on how to use the marking scheme I know full well they will be gratefully assisted by the CCFA so they can mark accurately and justify it their reasons correctly. 

Try and work out in Western League that process out of 100 whilst then marking again on MOAS when you don’t get a score! 

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17 minutes ago, Foul Throw 3 said:

If it's the same as St Piran and ECPL it's still marks /100 on 3 topics with a 40/30/30 split for "overall decision making", "judgement of major decisions" and "general control & player management."

If any secretary/club official needs guidance on how to use the marking scheme I know full well they will be gratefully assisted by the CCFA so they can mark accurately and justify it their reasons correctly. 

It's not. The marker no longer has to award a number. They award a rating of between very poor - standard expected - very good against several competencies and the form generates the mark from that. 

It still has its issues but  the weighting of it has significantly decreased when considering referees for promotion or reclassification.

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2 minutes ago, Philheybrookbay said:

Try and work out in Western League that process out of 100 whilst then marking again on MOAS when you don’t get a score! 

 

1 minute ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

It's not. The marker no longer has to award a number. They award a rating of between very poor - standard expected - very good against several competencies and the form generates the mark from that. 

It still has its issues but  the weighting of it has significantly decreased when considering referees for promotion or reclassification.

Interesting! Why different in different local leagues then? Just confuses things further.

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5 minutes ago, Foul Throw 3 said:

 

Interesting! Why different in different local leagues then? Just confuses things further.

Probably technology. 

The club form works in a very similar way to the observer form and is submitted directly in MOAS which is not used below step 6. 

Not sure why that would be confusing though? 

It is an attempt by the FA to standardise the marking system. 

Every club would have a different system for how they arrived at their number, where as the hope is this provides more consistency.

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Tornado was fouled but dont know why he was rolling around holding his face which happened when him and Joe cooper went up for a ball and Joes arm brushed Tornados face and he went down like he was shot happened right in front of me but Tornado exagerated it and the Bude management wasnt happy the Blazey player wasnt booked 

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1 hour ago, justanopinion said:

Do you have any evidence that the club marking is not working? It is my understanding that clubs in this league are required to use a different and more detailed marking system this season where a mark is not actually given. It might be interesting to hear some feedback at the end of season.

Qualified referees who are still participating in local foot ball have been on this forum stating catagoricaly that they are influenced by the possibility of being marked down and consequently being demoted.
You can change the club marking system as much as you like, it still remains that club officials can affect the standing of a referee who has had to prove his/her competence at a given level, losing the ability to operate at that level based on the opinion of an unqualified or disgrutled club official.
The opinion of the losing club is not often corroborated by the winning side, that alone should question the viability of the club officials marking system

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1 hour ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

It's not. The marker no longer has to award a number. They award a rating of between very poor - standard expected - very good against several competencies and the form generates the mark from that. 

It still has its issues but  the weighting of it has significantly decreased when considering referees for promotion or reclassification.

We mark between very poor and very good on MOAS but still have to mark on fulltime out of 40 for overall decision making, out of 30 for judgement of major decisions and out of 30 for overall control .. thus giving the referee a mark on there out of 100.

 

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1 hour ago, Toroloco13 said:

We mark between very poor and very good on MOAS but still have to mark on fulltime out of 40 for overall decision making, out of 30 for judgement of major decisions and out of 30 for overall control .. thus giving the referee a mark on there out of 100.

 

Maybe check with the league if that is actually needed. FA will only use MOAS data for promotion and retention..it used to be done by the appointment sec (combine club and merit) but it's now all in MOAS. 

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22 minutes ago, 100%cornish said:

Scrap the sin bins just a waste of time and Confusing i have seen severel sin bins and on Saturday Bude had Billy Hopcroft sin binned straight after Baga Mariko had been sent off looked like the 2nd of his 2 yellows was a good tackle but the ref saw different and this upset the Bude Management 

Don't tell me, this is your last comment 🤣

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Sin bins were introduced into grass roots football as a means of punishment for outbursts of dissent for players who lack the required level of self control in lower leagues. I think they hoped that a fear of causing a numerical disadvantage may help curb dissent from regular offenders. Would be interesting to see if there is any data to see if its helped. 

However, Sin bins don't exist for step 5 and above. If you are playing one level below that and finding yourself getting sin binned, you probably lack the football intelligence required at that level and cause embarrassment to yourself, teammates and your club. It shows certain players and clubs are probably at a slightly inflated placement within the football pyramid. 

 

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1 minute ago, BoratSagdiyev said:

Sin bins were introduced into grass roots football as a means of punishment for outbursts of dissent for players who lack the required level of self control in lower leagues. I think they hoped that a fear of causing a numerical disadvantage may help curb dissent from regular offenders. Would be interesting to see if there is any data to see if its helped. 

However, Sin bins don't exist for step 5 and above. If you are playing one level below that and finding yourself getting sin binned, you probably lack the football intelligence required at that level and cause embarrassment to yourself, teammates and your club. It shows certain players and clubs are probably at a slightly inflated placement within the football pyramid. 

 

Sin bins DO exist in Step 5.

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On 19/02/2023 at 11:58, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

Being a Jambo you’ll know plenty about ‘shithousery’ 😉 

I get your points, but Bude’s ‘dogs of war’ mentality is something commented upon by all sorts of posters with allegiance to many differing clubs. Are they *all* wrong? The ongoing  ‘victim’ mentality from Broadclose not a great look.

Yes, it does appear that Bude have upset a few from various clubs with their antics. However, I do feel they have become the target for more “established” clubs fans. As said previously, they must be doing something right to have ruffled so many feathers. 
I’m not a fan of a ‘victim’ mentality. As you will know, one of my teams great rivals revel in being victims. In fact, I’d suggest the team from the east end of Glasgow are professional victims and I really don’t like that attitude from teams. Therefore I’d suggest, Bude are more defensive than victim in their attitude. 
See you behind the goals 😉

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4 hours ago, Toroloco13 said:

We mark between very poor and very good on MOAS but still have to mark on fulltime out of 40 for overall decision making, out of 30 for judgement of major decisions and out of 30 for overall control .. thus giving the referee a mark on there out of 100.

 

Means nothing now though and that has been emailed out to club secretaries on many occasions at the start of the season.

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1 hour ago, The Jam Tart said:

Yes, it does appear that Bude have upset a few from various clubs with their antics. However, I do feel they have become the target for more “established” clubs fans. As said previously, they must be doing something right to have ruffled so many feathers. 
I’m not a fan of a ‘victim’ mentality. As you will know, one of my teams great rivals revel in being victims. In fact, I’d suggest the team from the east end of Glasgow are professional victims and I really don’t like that attitude from teams. Therefore I’d suggest, Bude are more defensive than victim in their attitude. 
See you behind the goals 😉

1 hour ago, The Jam Tart said:

Yes, it does appear that Bude have upset a few from various clubs with their antics. However, I do feel they have become the target for more “established” clubs fans. As said previously, they must be doing something right to have ruffled so many feathers. 
I’m not a fan of a ‘victim’ mentality. As you will know, one of my teams great rivals revel in being victims. In fact, I’d suggest the team from the east end of Glasgow are professional victims and I really don’t like that attitude from teams. Therefore I’d suggest, Bude are more defensive than victim in their attitude. 
See you behind the goals 😉

Amusing respose Jam Tart - but no-one has a weirder mix of arrogance matched  with victimhood than the Zombies from Ibrox - totally dwarfs any shortcomings of the two big capital city clubs.

As for Bude - lots of money spent on and off the field and now Top 4 spot means  little. Hoping to see Hibs legend Conrad Logan if he's still at Anstey Nomads on Saturday. Bad planning on my part as it neans missing Liskeard v Bude - could be quite a spicy game this weekend!!

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On 19/02/2023 at 18:28, Hetty said:

What is funny is all the clubs that have over spent or rushed to get floodlights up and now the restructure will be delayed for a season.  
 

champions only will be promoted so St Blazey can just sit back and let this play out safe in the knowledge that bude will be hosting St Dennis / Sticker etc with their new lights next season. 

Not really relevant to this discussion because all clubs that want to play at Step 6 need lights, let alone Step 5 where ground grading is a little tougher still. Obviously most clubs will be allowed some time to make changes. At Dobwalls we entered Step 6 without lights with dispensation to get them installed over a couple of seasons along with some other work. 

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So both sets of players were behaving like animals, and the volunteer referee (who had given up a substantial part of his weekend to enable the ‘game’ to take place) became spooked by the level of aggression on display and quite likely started to fear for his own safety.

Well, congratulations to every moronic ass hole involved in this fiasco. 
 

Apparently, there is a shortage of people willing to officiate in non-League football. Does anybody have any idea why?

In your own time, folks…..

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13 minutes ago, SteveG said:

So both sets of players were behaving like animals, and the volunteer referee (who had given up a substantial part of his weekend to enable the ‘game’ to take place) became spooked by the level of aggression on display and quite likely started to fear for his own safety.

Well, congratulations to every moronic ass hole involved in this fiasco. 
 

Apparently, there is a shortage of people willing to officiate in non-League football. Does anybody have any idea why?

In your own time, folks…..

No one wants to actually admit that we have a deep rooted culture of thuggish, loutish and despicable cretins populating the game. Far easier to sweep it under the rug and deem it "part of the game"

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On 20/02/2023 at 17:27, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

Maybe check with the league if that is actually needed. FA will only use MOAS data for promotion and retention..it used to be done by the appointment sec (combine club and merit) but it's now all in MOAS. 

Yes but referee mark HAS to be entered on fulltime in order for the system to allow you to progress to enter your squad details so still has to be completed!!

 

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