RESULTS - Saturday 26 November 2022

[Dave Deacon]

Clevedon Town              2-1              Welton Rovers

Falmouth Town                 P-P              Sherborne Town

Ilfracombe Town              P-P             Helston Athletic

Keynsham Town               0-6            Shepton Mallet

Mousehole               P-P              Ashton & Backwell United

Saltash United          P-P            Millbrook

Street                                 0-2           Barnstaple Town

Torpoint Athletic              P-P             Wellington

[Dave Deacon]

You have to feel for spectators! Saltash have just posted their game is 2pm on Saturday yet the league's FA Full-time site shows 3pm!

[bighairydave]

26 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

You have to feel for spectators! Saltash have just posted their game is 2pm on Saturday yet the league's FA Full-time site shows 3pm!

So why don’t they highlight that with the league?

[Dave Deacon]

Just now, bighairydave said:

So why don’t they highlight that with the league?

That's a question for the club. Who knows they may have done so.

[bighairydave]

43 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

That's a question for the club. Who knows they may have done so.

It looks like the league have amended now.

[Gary Hocking]

Even though the Western League have updated their website their app still says 3pm (though given the yellow Met Office rain warning for tomorrow it’ll probably be moot anyway). 

[sportsman10]

Can’t they just make all ko 2 pm to save all this hassle.  I’m pretty sure every club could do with saving the electricity of floodlights. Being on 

[Luke Gibbons]

Torpoint AFC P-P Wellington AFC

[silly billy]

21 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

You have to feel for spectators! Saltash have just posted their game is 2pm on Saturday yet the league's FA Full-time site shows 3pm!

Cancelled now anyway

 

[6times]

Is games still on at Falmouth and mousehole on anyone know 

[John Thomas Allcock]

Mousehole v Ashton & Backwell OFF

[silly billy]

1 hour ago, 6times said:

Is games still on at Falmouth and mousehole on anyone know 

Falmouth just been cancelled, rain can't be helped but very poor to leave it so late.

[Barry H]

Long, miserable, meaningless journeys for Helston and Ashton & Backwell only to be cancelled practically on / just after arrival.

[Mark Jones]

8 minutes ago, GKBH said:

Long, miserable, meaningless journeys for Helston and Ashton & Backwell only to be cancelled practically on / just after arrival.

And for Sherborne town to Falmouth. No fault of Falmouth who raised concerns early to the referee. I have to say the SWPL seem  more on the ball than the Western league. 

[Pondy]

29 minutes ago, GKBH said:

Long, miserable, meaningless journeys for Helston and Ashton & Backwell only to be cancelled practically on / just after arrival.

       at least all the up country teams can have a decent pasty

 

[Town Fan]

1 hour ago, silly billy said:

Falmouth just been cancelled, rain can't be helped but very poor to leave it so late.

Looks like it was a league decision, Ashton & Backwell made it as far as Cornwall Services on the A30 and Helston travelled to Ilfracombe, agree with you though on leaving it so late given the weather forecast.

[silly billy]

10 minutes ago, Town Fan said:

Looks like it was a league decision, Ashton & Backwell made it as far as Cornwall Services on the A30 and Helston travelled to Ilfracombe, agree with you though on leaving it so late given the weather forecast.

👍 Seems like Parkways game was cancelled 10 minutes before kick. Very poor considering the weather forecast, and how far their opponents had travelled. 

[Philheybrookbay]

Hard to be a secretary today.

When I confirmed with Millbrook on Tuesday I advised it was looking dicey. Therefore as the match referee was coming from Exeter, I arranged with Neil Lane (step 4) to come and look for 11am. 
 

Millbrook then advised that this was a late time - therefore can we make it earlier. To Neil’s credit he did and we inspected with the match referee on the call at 10am. Match on. Under FA guidance it was playable and dry. Heck Neil and I were in trainers walking it kicking a ball - it was dry but soft.

Left the ground- went to Home Bargains only to get a call from our manager- Phil have you seen the weather? Walked out at 1115 back to ground and it was still marginal in imho. It was wetter v Mousehole and last season v Bridgwater. Then the rain came pelting down- rang the ref at 1150 - then got through at 1158. FaceTime - one look, game off. 
 

Listen I’ve only called off 3 times in my time as Sec, and we’ve played in several marginal games as above. I’m really sorry we went today, but perhaps if we’d stuck to my plan of 11am inspection it would have worked out. Speaking to Robbie at Torpoint he’s had exactly the same- rain came in earlier and heavier than we hoped. 
 

Game rearranged for Saturday 25th February 2023. 

 

 

[mattelot]

2 hours ago, silly billy said:

Falmouth just been cancelled, rain can't be helped but very poor to leave it so late.

League insist match referee has final say Billy.Not allowed to take into account present weather conditions or predicted weather forecast on morning of game .Referee inspects at 13.45,ponders for 15 mins before calling game off. Feel for Sherborne ,having arrived at 12.45 ,but what a great understanding bunch they were in the clubhouse before returning home a couple of hours later.

[silly billy]

17 minutes ago, mattelot said:

League insist match referee has final say Billy.Not allowed to take into account present weather conditions or predicted weather forecast on morning of game .Referee inspects at 13.45,ponders for 15 mins before calling game off. Feel for Sherborne ,having arrived at 12.45 ,but what a great understanding bunch they were in the clubhouse before returning home a couple of hours later.

Not blaming Falmouth, but surely the league could use a bit of common sense 🤔

[Hands like shovels]

On 24/11/2022 at 10:37, Dave Deacon said:

15:00

Clevedon Town                 v              Welton Rovers

Falmouth Town                 v              Sherborne Town

Ilfracombe Town              v              Helston Athletic

Keynsham Town               v              Shepton Mallet

Mousehole                         v              Ashton & Backwell United

Saltash United                   v              Millbrook (club advise 2pm ko)

Street                                   v              Barnstaple

Torpoint Athletic              v              Wellington

So here we are again, heavy rain all week apart from Friday, pitches soft and weather warnings in place for heavy rain plus raining all morning on Matchday. Sides travelling from all over the south west paying huge amounts for coach travel when trying to budget sensibly due to rising costs and the Western league can't allow clubs to make common sense decisions regarding their own pitches with detailed weather forecast predictions clearly available to avoid unnecessary travel.

Any referee will call a game as late as possible due to pitch conditions based on safety but when teams are travelling miles and miles these decisions need to be made early by home clubs in the best interests of football and costs involved for travelling sides as this is an embarrassing situation yet again that could easily be avoided if anyone had any sense.

.

[Footy follower]

1 hour ago, silly billy said:

👍 Seems like Parkways game was cancelled 10 minutes before kick. Very poor considering the weather forecast, and how far their opponents had travelled. 

This has surely got to be down to the ref then. He would be there an hr (at least) before kick off but didn't cancel it until 10 mins before kick off 

[Richard Chown]

39 minutes ago, mattelot said:

League insist match referee has final say Billy.Not allowed to take into account present weather conditions or predicted weather forecast on morning of game .Referee inspects at 13.45,ponders for 15 mins before calling game off. Feel for Sherborne ,having arrived at 12.45 ,but what a great understanding bunch they were in the clubhouse before returning home a couple of hours later.

That is bonkers!!!

[Gary Hocking]

It’s always the referees or the home teams that get it in the neck. I have no intention of commenting on any one specific fixture but given that we have something close to half a dozen games today where (1) league protocols were scrupulously followed (2) teams travelled very long distances only for games to be called off at the very last minute, suggests that there is a problem with the league protocols. And if climate change means that there will be more extreme weather weekends & modern sensibilities mean that games are more likely to be called off then the need to have fit-for-purpose protocols in place is more important than ever. 

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

On 25/11/2022 at 17:43, sportsman10 said:

Can’t they just make all ko 2 pm to save all this hassle.  I’m pretty sure every club could do with saving the electricity of floodlights. Being on 

Think Ashes need agreement of the other club. Today should have been a 2pm KO but others are at 3pm at the Waterways.

[FootballChat]

1 hour ago, Footy follower said:

This has surely got to be down to the ref then. He would be there an hr (at least) before kick off but didn't cancel it until 10 mins before kick off 

What difference does it make? 
You’re quite right that the referee would have arrived 1 - 1.5 hours before the game but the side travelling from London would be arriving at a similar time. 
 

Calling it off straight away or 10 mins before kick off makes no difference to their travel but gives the game every opportunity to be played if the weather changes/improves

[Both Sides of the Tamar]

2 hours ago, Philheybrookbay said:

Hard to be a secretary today.

When I confirmed with Millbrook on Tuesday I advised it was looking dicey. Therefore as the match referee was coming from Exeter, I arranged with Neil Lane (step 4) to come and look for 11am. 
 

Millbrook then advised that this was a late time - therefore can we make it earlier. To Neil’s credit he did and we inspected with the match referee on the call at 10am. Match on. Under FA guidance it was playable and dry. Heck Neil and I were in trainers walking it kicking a ball - it was dry but soft.

Left the ground- went to Home Bargains only to get a call from our manager- Phil have you seen the weather? Walked out at 1115 back to ground and it was still marginal in imho. It was wetter v Mousehole and last season v Bridgwater. Then the rain came pelting down- rang the ref at 1150 - then got through at 1158. FaceTime - one look, game off. 
 

Listen I’ve only called off 3 times in my time as Sec, and we’ve played in several marginal games as above. I’m really sorry we went today, but perhaps if we’d stuck to my plan of 11am inspection it would have worked out. Speaking to Robbie at Torpoint he’s had exactly the same- rain came in earlier and heavier than we hoped. 
 

Game rearranged for Saturday 25th February 2023. 

 

 

You’ve so much going on Phil. I’m sure you’ll have some critics, but these people never step up to the plate and commit to their club. People like Robbie & yourself and many others enable the grassroots game to function successfully. Thanks to all who make (most) Saturdays happen.

[Footy follower]

27 minutes ago, FootballChat said:

What difference does it make? 
You’re quite right that the referee would have arrived 1 - 1.5 hours before the game but the side travelling from London would be arriving at a similar time. 
 

Calling it off straight away or 10 mins before kick off makes no difference to their travel but gives the game every opportunity to be played if the weather changes/improves

Maybe not the several 100 home fans who would have travelled though. 

What I'm saying is.. The club cdnt do anything more as even the ref hasn't called it off until 15 mins before. 

As someone else has mentioned.. Its the protocol that's wrong but home clubs get all the blame or the refs get blamed 

[justanopinion]

The post from Gary Hocking hits the mark. The weather was not a surprise, today's rain fall was predicted days ago. Wasted trips, pitches that were played on now badly damaged for many weeks ahead. The protocol was to blame today and needs a lot of discussion. 

[Home Waters]

Maybe you should all join the team of 'Captain Hindsight'  -  its a wonderful thing. You want to try the foresight sometimes, its not easy with rules and regs.

[Town Fan]

3 hours ago, Home Waters said:

Maybe you should all join the team of 'Captain Hindsight'  -  its a wonderful thing. You want to try the foresight sometimes, its not easy with rules and regs.

There was a fair degree of foresight by the sounds of it, with weather warnings issued on Friday and clubs advising league officials on Saturday morning that any further rain would make pitches unplayable.  Clubs want to get games on, so if they advise otherwise it's probably worth listening to them.  Hardly any games at Step 5 or 6 went ahead in Cornwall yesterday, which suggests their early warnings should have been heeded.

[Tommy Matthews]

With teams having to travel even longer distances in the Western League surely even more notice of local conditions should be made use of. With Ashton & Blackwell turning back at Cornwall Services to head home to Bristol without kicking a ball on the same day I’d say something is very wrong with the current system. 
No doubt that money is tight and we’re seeing clubs fold all the time, this isn’t helping. 

[John Thomas Allcock]

8 hours ago, Tommy Matthews said:

With teams having to travel even longer distances in the Western League surely even more notice of local conditions should be made use of. With Ashton & Blackwell turning back at Cornwall Services to head home to Bristol without kicking a ball on the same day I’d say something is very wrong with the current system. 
No doubt that money is tight and we’re seeing clubs fold all the time, this isn’t helping. 

I'm lead to believe (although unconfirmed) that the FA will be reimbursing clubs who were encouraged to travel, with out of pocket travel expenses. 👍⚽

[Town Fan]

26 minutes ago, Drumming Nutter said:

I'm lead to believe (although unconfirmed) that the FA will be reimbursing clubs who were encouraged to travel, with out of pocket travel expenses. 👍⚽

Well that would be the right thing to do, but the rules still need looking at.

[Footy follower]

7 hours ago, Drumming Nutter said:

I'm lead to believe (although unconfirmed) that the FA will be reimbursing clubs who were encouraged to travel, with out of pocket travel expenses. 👍⚽

I can't believe that's true

[Philheybrookbay]

Thinking back to last season- when the Ashes were due to play at Street it failed the inspection at 10am. The issue is that clubs get charged for coaches once they leave the depot - not when they arrive although some are better than others. In that case it was leaving depot at 9am. 
 

The issue is we inspected and it passed but the rain came in hours earlier than expected - all week it looked that it would start at 2pm but it didn’t. So in Falmouth/Mousehole cases if they inspected early for travelling side then yes it would have passed so come on down. 
 

It does make you wonder if they used FaceTime or WhatsApp video call like I did but then your at the mercy of the ref answering (mine didn’t 2 times). Such is modern technology. 

[Dave Deacon]

11 hours ago, Drumming Nutter said:

I'm lead to believe (although unconfirmed) that the FA will be reimbursing clubs who were encouraged to travel, with out of pocket travel expenses. 👍⚽

I think it’s a case that the FA don't help with travel, but the Western League are known to use some of its sponsorship to fund wasted travel 👍

[mattelot]

On 26/11/2022 at 17:35, Richard Chown said:

That is bonkers!!!

What is more bonkers is that a level 6 referee can't inspect a pitch for a level 5 game .

Must be that level 6 rain is different from level 5 rain .

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

1 hour ago, mattelot said:

What is more bonkers is that a level 6 referee can't inspect a pitch for a level 5 game .

Must be that level 6 rain is different from level 5 rain .

Think you have your referee levels and NLS steps mixed up.

Step 3/4 (southern league etc.) - level 3 referee. Pitch Inspection can be done by level 4

Step 5/6 (SWP/Western league) - level 4 referee. Pitch Inspection can be done by a level 5 referee (and will usually be an experienced level 5)

The inspection should be done in conjunction with match referee (video/telephone call) who in the event of questionable suitability has final say.

[sportsman10]

10 minutes ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

Think you have your referee levels and NLS steps mixed up.

Step 3/4 (southern league etc.) - level 3 referee. Pitch Inspection can be done by level 4

Step 5/6 (SWP/Western league) - level 4 referee. Pitch Inspection can be done by a level 5 referee (and will usually be an experienced level 5)

The inspection should be done in conjunction with match referee (video/telephone call) who in the event of questionable suitability has final say.

Why on earth do you need to be an experienced ref to look on the met office to see it’s going to rain that afternoon  or look at a bit if grass to see it’s wet.  Honestly it gets more ridiculous the more you hear it. There no common sense anywhere 

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

27 minutes ago, sportsman10 said:

Why on earth do you need to be an experienced ref to look on the met office to see it’s going to rain that afternoon  or look at a bit if grass to see it’s wet.  Honestly it gets more ridiculous the more you hear it. There no common sense anywhere 

You don't. Who said anything about the forecast? 

The post was about inspecting a pitch. 

Since when did games get called off because it's raining? Its not Cricket.

You need experience in dealing with the clubs. I have inspected many pitches over the years and often a club will pressure you one way or another (not enough players/over zealous pitc protection/fixture pile up). A fresh faced level 7 referee is unlikely to be experienced to handle that. Its not so much the is it wet, playable etc., As much as the whole process that needs to be managed.

[Footy follower]

44 minutes ago, TheOpinionoftheReferee said:

You don't. Who said anything about the forecast? 

The post was about inspecting a pitch. 

Since when did games get called off because it's raining? Its not Cricket.

You need experience in dealing with the clubs. I have inspected many pitches over the years and often a club will pressure you one way or another (not enough players/over zealous pitc protection/fixture pile up). A fresh faced level 7 referee is unlikely to be experienced to handle that. Its not so much the is it wet, playable etc., As much as the whole process that needs to be managed.

Of course the fact its raining is important. A ref has to judge if the whole game is going to get played... Not just if it's playable in minute 1.......

[sportsman10]

If a pitch has been soaked all week and you get 1 dry day but know a monsoon is in on the way that afternoon of course the rain matters.
It’s still ridiculous you need a so called experienced ref to deal with clubs  ? 

 

[TheOpinionoftheReferee]

17 minutes ago, Footy follower said:

Of course the fact its raining is important. A ref has to judge if the whole game is going to get played... Not just if it's playable in minute 1.......

Its 1 of many things that need to be considered, yes. 

I haven't actually said you don't need to use the forecast, because of course the prevailing weather conditions and the current weather forecast go hand in hand.

But you still probably need to be an experienced (ish) official to put it all together on your decision making 

 

11 minutes ago, sportsman10 said:

If a pitch has been soaked all week and you get 1 dry day but know a monsoon is in on the way that afternoon of course the rain matters.
It’s still ridiculous you need a so called experienced ref to deal with clubs  ? 

 

Yes. But take an example from this week's weather:

Parkway - postponed on Tuesday evening because of the weather. Saturday Game on and ended up being postponed 10 mins before despite the weather conditions remaining largely the same except for one dry day.

 

This is of course all on the basis its left to match officials as per normal prpcedure.

The league, I know the SWP at least, have a severe weather protocol to allow clubs to take that decision, which wasn't invoked.

[justanopinion]

Totally agree with sportsman10. I believe the leagues have let down the clubs here with not issuing a severe weather allowance. A pitch may have been playable at 10am with the rain just arriving but it became dangerous during afternoon with the constant rain. The forecast was quite clear from Weds/Thursday with plenty of time to use common sense. Money being thrown around to improve pitch surfaces but now ruined for the sake of one easy decision that was missed.

[John Thomas Allcock]

9 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

I think it’s a case that the FA don't help with travel, but the Western League are known to use some of its sponsorship to fund wasted travel 👍

I suspect your right ... But it's got to be a lifeline to some clubs that operate on a shoestring budget ...either way let's hope the right thing is done 😁🥁👍

[Dave Deacon]

3 hours ago, Drumming Nutter said:

I suspect your right ... But it's got to be a lifeline to some clubs that operate on a shoestring budget ...either way let's hope the right thing is done 😁🥁👍

Probably find out that the fund was setup around 18 months ago to placate Bristol clubs whinging about going to Cornwall!!!! 🤭

[Town Fan]

20 hours ago, mattelot said:

What is more bonkers is that a level 6 referee can't inspect a pitch for a level 5 game .

Must be that level 6 rain is different from level 5 rain .

Spot on, Step 5 rain is heavier, that's why we've cancelled more matches this season than last season!

🤣