Now Morwenstow drop out!

[Dave Deacon]

What is going on in local football?

Just read on twitter this announcement from Morwenstow ….. 

'Unfortunately, the club have had to take the regrettable step of withdrawing from the St Piran league football league with immediate effect.

The club wish to thank those that have worked tirelessly over recent months to fulfill fixtures, despite the difficult circumstances.

The club will continue to operate one adult team playing competitively in the North Devon League.’

[golong]

It will get worse before it gets better unfortunately. Hope to see them back ASAP! 

[Dave Deacon]

2 minutes ago, golong said:

It will get worse before it gets better unfortunately. Hope to see them back ASAP! 

What can be done, or needs to be done, to stop this trend?

[supportcornishfootball]

This is getting so bad now, what is happening to our football system. Where is the desire from players? It’s heartbreaking to watch this happen again and again, in my day all every boy ever wanted to do was play  football 

[6times]

1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said:

What can be done, or needs to be done, to stop this trend?

Feel this st pirans league needs a huge overhaul and come off the pyramid system , kinda a joke league  with no promotion for at least half the clubs probably another 2-3 clubs who wouldn’t want it ( due to travel /expense) no one can be relegated and it’s killed the combo /east Cornwall leagues ( if they wasn’t dead before ( after Jswl ended) st pirans  a nothing league therefore feel the whole vibe/ desire stems from the message/negativity , start the pyramid at the next level then hopefully those who want to progress will , those that want to stay local can then play/stay at clubs knowing where they are for a considerable amount of time and not concerned if they win finish 6th will probably be FORCED into a promotion , the players/club will then  have to put a lot more time/commitment/effort in ,or they players can pick up and leave  a club … 🤷‍♂️

[Ian Pethick]

1 hour ago, supportcornishfootball said:

This is getting so bad now, what is happening to our football system. Where is the desire from players? It’s heartbreaking to watch this happen again and again, in my day all every boy ever wanted to do was play  football 

Perhaps the hard truth has to be faced, and we possibly accept that there are too many clubs and leagues , and just not enough players or volunteers. It can't all be down to "desire", the multiple possible social, demographic and economic reasons why people don't want to, or simply can't commit, the time has been talked around many times on here.  Suspect it's not just a Cornish issue either. Fenman posted a good snapshot of what is happening in his neck of the woods, and we regularly also hear from Easterfield on the state of the Devon scene.

Somebody came up with a very interesting stat on this forum a while back. They stated that the numbers of players registered (and regularly playing) in the 35 upwards cohort is actually increasing. Indicates that, for various reasons, players come back to the game as they get a bit older.

[Steve Carpenter]

19 minutes ago, 6times said:

Feel this st pirans league needs a huge overhaul and come off the pyramid system , kinda a joke league  with no promotion for at least half the clubs probably another 2-3 clubs who wouldn’t want it ( due to travel /expense) no one can be relegated and it’s killed the combo /east Cornwall leagues ( if they wasn’t dead before ( after Jswl ended) st pirans  a nothing league therefore feel the whole vibe/ desire stems from the message/negativity , start the pyramid at the next level then hopefully those who want to progress will , those that want to stay local can then play/stay at clubs knowing where they are for a considerable amount of time and not concerned if they win finish 6th will probably be FORCED into a promotion , the players/club will then  have to put a lot more time/commitment/effort in ,or they players can pick up and leave  a club … 🤷‍♂️

Unfortunately virtually every point you make is fatally flawed.  Unless you're involved in running a club or league you wouldn't be expected to have the detailed knowledge  of the rules and regulations governing the areas you mention but it has all been covered a number of times before so I don't intend to go over it again.

 

26 minutes ago, Way Of The Park said:

Perhaps the hard truth has to be faced, and we possibly accept that there are too many clubs and leagues , and just not enough players or volunteers. It can't all be down to "desire", the multiple possible social, demographic and economic reasons why people don't want to, or simply can't commit, the time has been talked around many times on here.  Suspect it's not just a Cornish issue either. Fenman posted a good snapshot of what is happening in his neck of the woods, and we regularly also hear from Easterfield on the state of the Devon scene.

Somebody came up with a very interesting stat on this forum a while back. They stated that the numbers of players registered (and regularly playing) in the 35 upwards cohort is actually increasing. Indicates that, for various reasons, players come back to the game as they get a bit older.

Absolutely this and it's not just football that's suffering.  The harsh reality is that the game is shrinking.  It will bottom out but what it will look like when it does is anybody's guess. 

[MattP]

35 minutes ago, Way Of The Park said:

Perhaps the hard truth has to be faced, and we possibly accept that there are too many clubs and leagues , and just not enough players or volunteers. It can't all be down to "desire", the multiple possible social, demographic and economic reasons why people don't want to, or simply can't commit, the time has been talked around many times on here.  Suspect it's not just a Cornish issue either. Fenman posted a good snapshot of what is happening in his neck of the woods, and we regularly also hear from Easterfield on the state of the Devon scene.

Somebody came up with a very interesting stat on this forum a while back. They stated that the numbers of players registered (and regularly playing) in the 35 upwards cohort is actually increasing. Indicates that, for various reasons, players come back to the game as they get a bit older.

I actually wonder if the older players “coming back” are the last of the loyal ones coming back to help out their struggling clubs, due to the younger players not having their commitment and loyalty levels 

[Ian Pethick]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

I actually wonder if the older players “coming back” are the last of the loyal ones coming back to help out their struggling clubs, due to the younger players not having their commitment and loyalty levels 

Would be really interesting to have a younger player who has either walked away from, or reduced their commitment to, a Saturday club come on here and give their point of view. No offence to yourself Matt P, but I don't like things like a lack of loyalty, commitment or desire being levelled exclusively at younger people. Just as likely to find this in "older" people as well in my experience. My football daft 15 year old nephew has more external pressures in his life than I ever did (he usually spends a chunk of his Saturdays doing school coursework for example).

[Fish]

The problem now seems to be that from St.Pirans league down, players want to play with their mates and have a laugh rather then test themselves to play the highest level they can attain.

just look at the calibre of players playing in Trelawny leagues…even in Div 3!!
 

the quick fix is two fold, a restructure of the leagues (which is happening in some shape or form at the end of this season) but there should also be a two year suspension of any new teams joining any league as a new club. This will then make players play for an existing club and not water down the teams already in the leagues. We see it every year about 8 or 9 new teams form and then the players go there from other clubs and the existing club folds due to lack of players.

Stop new teams forming for two years u til all the leagues are set up and sustainable.

Probably won’t work as too many politics in different leagues who want their say.

it is a real shame and one which will only get worse unless something is done now.

 

[Martin Eddy]

28 minutes ago, Steve Carpenter said:

Unfortunately virtually every point you make is fatally flawed.  Unless you're involved in running a club or league you wouldn't be expected to have the detailed knowledge  of the rules and regulations governing the areas you mention but it has all been covered a number of times before so I don't intend to go over it again.

 

Absolutely this and it's not just football that's suffering.  The harsh reality is that the game is shrinking.  It will bottom out but what it will look like when it does is anybody's guess. 

Steve when is the league overhaul due to be started, will it be next season or the one after.

My own personal view is that the FA in general are to fixated with the top of the pyramid and really need to get the real grassroots level sorted first. When you build a house you have to have solid foundations,but at present these foundations are crumbling at an alarming rate. I do not know what the solution is but making/ helping clubs to get grandstands and floodlights should not be the priority at present. Without players those facilities mean nothing.

[Mike Arscott]

I'm still registered at a club but haven't been able to play for at least 18 months. Being 39 and having Achilles tendons made of cheese strings after 20 years + of playing South Western league/peninsula football I can't risk injury with being self employed. 

Teams having 35 odd players registered doesn't mean they're all available, players sign as cover for one game to help out then can't play again for whatever reason. 

I'd love to still be playing but family comes first. 

[fenman]

A somewhat controversial point I know BUT !!!!!!!  How much of an effect is youth football having on adult football ? I don't mean youth teams that are part of a senior club but the myriad of 7 years old and upward teams that are run by parents for the benefit of their offspring . On Sunday mornings I hear the games on the playing field next door where parents are screaming at 7 /8 year old boys and girls , giving ill founded advice and expecting them to play like 25 year old professionals . Many of these parents have never played football in their lives yet they seem full of wisdom . The team managers are more interested in their own child than the others and have no coaching abilities  at all . On reaching 16 the child makes his own choice and thinks that all football is the same as he or she has experienced for the pas 8 years or so , as a result they lose interest in the game . Although most of you will disagree with me , I've seen this many times in the past 25 years or so through my children and now my grandchidren playing for youth teams . A parent will run a club until his child is too old for youth football and then packs up being involved in the game .. A near neighbour of mine played under these circumstances for many years and at 16 packed up playing . At the time I was doing some research for my league for a report into why the game was dying . I asked him why he , and several of his mates , had stopped playing , particularly as his village team was struggling for players . He said that the way he's been coached was that to win was the main aim , being second was the first loser . He assumed adult football was the same and he had tired of it so he'd taken up skateboarding . He said that there were many advantages , he did'nt need team mates , he could do it when he wanted rather than a specific time and he didn't have to travel . He and his mates spent hours in the skateboard park even late evenings . HOWEVER  the craze didn't last long , the skateboard park is now deserted along with the tennis court , basketball court and 5 aside pitch  . All of which begs the question what do people want ?

[Steve Carpenter]

24 minutes ago, Postman Pat said:

Steve when is the league overhaul due to be started, will it be next season or the one after.

My own personal view is that the FA in general are to fixated with the top of the pyramid and really need to get the real grassroots level sorted first. When you build a house you have to have solid foundations, but at present these foundations are crumbling at an alarming rate. I do not know what the solution is but making/ helping clubs to get grandstands and floodlights should not be the priority at present. Without players those facilities mean nothing.

There will be an update on the merger situation next week.  There are still some votes to come in from the leagues in the east and they have to be submitted by Thursday of this week.

38 minutes ago, Fish said:

The problem now seems to be that from St.Pirans league down, players want to play with their mates and have a laugh rather then test themselves to play the highest level they can attain.

just look at the calibre of players playing in Trelawny leagues…even in Div 3!!

the quick fix is two fold, a restructure of the leagues (which is happening in some shape or form at the end of this season) but there should also be a two year suspension of any new teams joining any league as a new club. This will then make players play for an existing club and not water down the teams already in the leagues. We see it every year about 8 or 9 new teams form and then the players go there from other clubs and the existing club folds due to lack of players.

Stop new teams forming for two years u til all the leagues are set up and sustainable.

Probably won’t work as too many politics in different leagues who want their say.

it is a real shame and one which will only get worse unless something is done now.

 

I think I'm right in saying that this year was the first time that no new clubs applied to join the Trelawny League.  That is perhaps another indicator as to where we're going.

If the merger goes ahead then one common agreed policy would apply.

[MattP]

1 hour ago, Way Of The Park said:

Would be really interesting to have a younger player who has either walked away from, or reduced their commitment to, a Saturday club come on here and give their point of view. No offence to yourself Matt P, but I don't like things like a lack of loyalty, commitment or desire being levelled exclusively at younger people. Just as likely to find this in "older" people as well in my experience. My football daft 15 year old nephew has more external pressures in his life than I ever did (he usually spends a chunk of his Saturdays doing school coursework for example).

Don’t disagree, I can only speak from my time as a player vs my time as a manager - definitely more of an issue now than it was then, in my experience. 

[Martin Eddy]

Thanks Steve hopefully stop players signing for different teams with it being one organisation.

[Ian Pethick]

1 hour ago, Fish said:

The problem now seems to be that from St.Pirans league down, players want to play with their mates and have a laugh rather then test themselves to play the highest level they can attain.

 

At end of the day, below semi pro level at least, isn't "playing with your mates and having a laugh" the point of it? 

[Yourhavingalaugh]

‘Playing with their mates’ seems to imply that these players can’t make new mates, so why would you want to sign them on, as once a couple of players leave, others are likely to follow. IMO there are too many teams. I’m less concerned not about teams dropping out, than newly formed pop up teams/club joining leagues with limited foundations, as they seem to take players away from well established clubs. Eventually and hopefully, all well run clubs will get stronger and attract players, rather than a group mates forming new teams/clubs at a whim.

[Dave Deacon]

Is the restructuring from Feeder League level down going to reduce the number of leagues? Namely the Combo and ECPL?

And is it planned to be brought in for season 2023-24?

[Grassrootsgary]

Seeing a lot of st pirans league slander on this topic. 
 

About how the st pirans league and below is for playing with your mates and not the highest level attainable etc. 

having seen the way the swpl has gone over the recent years I’d actually argue the top 5/6/7 teams in the st pirans would finish higher than a fair few teams in the league above, as bude and mullion have both shown this season, barring maybe the top 2/3 sides in the swpl the level of football between the rest of that league and the top half of the st pirans league is no different.
 

I don’t understand why there is still such a hype around the swpl? Yes it was a v good level of football 7/8 years ago, but the level of some of the teams in it now leaves a lot to be desired 🤔 

[cornishteddyboy]

Soon it will be like rugby, one club per town. The smaller clubs will all fall by the wayside. Might take 10 years, might take 20.

Youth football, vets, ladies will still be played but mens 11-a-side football will constrict more and more. The clubs that survive will have 2-3 sides each. 

[6times]

20 minutes ago, Grassrootsgary said:

Seeing a lot of st pirans league slander on this topic. 
 

About how the st pirans league and below is for playing with your mates and not the highest level attainable etc. 

having seen the way the swpl has gone over the recent years I’d actually argue the top 5/6/7 teams in the st pirans would finish higher than a fair few teams in the league above, as bude and mullion have both shown this season, barring maybe the top 2/3 sides in the swpl the level of football between the rest of that league and the top half of the st pirans league is no different.
 

I don’t understand why there is still such a hype around the swpl? Yes it was a v good level of football 7/8 years ago, but the level of some of the teams in it now leaves a lot to be desired 🤔 

Agree totally with your post ref standard from top st piran and swpl , but what makes the st piran stupid is the reasoning on the development team post by football dad on another topic , the fact of a 2 league gap to the 1st team kinda makes the st piran league stupid in terms of promotion/relegation competitiveness etc, 

be great if restructure gets rid of a couple leagues and maybe start pyramid from swpl or western west whatever it’s gonna be called . 
 

don’t wholeheartedly think it’s a generational thing ( maybe wrong ) but 100% feel too many leagues too much movement etc is a problem also 

[Steve Carpenter]

1 hour ago, Dave Deacon said:

Is the restructuring from Feeder League level down going to reduce the number of leagues? Namely the Combo and ECPL?

And is it planned to be brought in for season 2023-24?

The plan is for one league Dave.  And yes, the aim is to have everything in place for the start of 23-24.

[Steve Carpenter]

4 minutes ago, 6times said:

Agree totally with your post ref standard from top st piran and swpl , but what makes the st piran stupid is the reasoning on the development team post by football dad on another topic , the fact of a 2 league gap to the 1st team kinda makes the st piran league stupid in terms of promotion/relegation competitiveness etc, 

be great if restructure gets rid of a couple leagues and maybe start pyramid from swpl or western west whatever it’s gonna be called . 
 

don’t wholeheartedly think it’s a generational thing ( maybe wrong ) but 100% feel too many leagues too much movement etc is a problem also 

At the risk of repeating myself for the umpteenth time.  There has to be a Regional NLS Feeder League in place, no if's no buts that's the rules.  You can call it what you want, it happens to be called St Piran at the moment.  The FA, as was made clear 4 years ago and on a number of occasions since, accept that many clubs will be happy at that level which is why promotion to the NLS is not mandatory.  The Feeder Leagues provide the entry point from county football to the National League System and enables a club starting at the very bottom of the Duchy or Trelawny to gain access to the NLS.

The pyramid starts at the SWPL.  Reserve sides are permitted in the NLS but not above Step 6 and as you correctly say there must be a 2 Step gap.  Those are the rules.  They've been there a long time.  If you think that St Piran is uncompetitive you've clearly not watched many games.

When/if the merger goes ahead I would expect the number of divisions to be broadly the same as they are now.

[Martin Eddy]

As usual Steve a very formative answer, thanks for all the hard work you and the committee put into St.Pirans, unfortunately you have not had the best of starts with covid and now another restructuring from above. That said the league has been run at a very high standard.

[Dave Deacon]

4 hours ago, Steve Carpenter said:

The plan is for one league Dave.

One league, but how many divisions?

Presumably an East and West.

So at the moment in the East - there are in effect 5 'divisions' - SPL East, ECPL, Duchy Prem, D1 & D2 - will there still be 5 come the merge into 'one league'?

Likewise in the West - currently 7 - SPL West, Combo, Trelawny (5) - will there still be 7 divisions come the new set-up?

Presumably there will be, otherwise what's the point?

[davegrose]

Sorry to see another team fold but to blame lack of ambition on players is far from the truth,when we played them twice last season morwenstow had decent numbers for both fixtures,maybe some of their guys have to work on Saturday to cope with cost increases etc which takes away players available?it's happening in all the leagues btw not just down here.

[ECPL]

Very sad.  The days are long gone when playsrs played for their home town or village club.  There was always the opportunity for the better players to move on but by and large players just wanted to play with their mates.  Society has changed, work practises have changed, the expense of running a team has changed.   it is the same with the volunteers, are they being replaced or even encouraged to muck in.  A football club is the heart of the comnunity.  Instead of looking at football as promotion and relegation look at is a community thing.  The questions and answers have been the same for years.   We wonder why players dont stay  behind for a drink. The days are gone when this happened as it is far easier to lose your license now.  I think it is time we look at what we actually want rather than think of having the right number of seats, or whether we have lights.  Ground grading costs money and at a local level this is not achievable.  Football at a local level should be all about the local area not how far you can go up the ladder.  The questions and answers will go on but do the hierarchy actually listen. 

[Martin Eddy]

Went to Morwenstow for a preseason friendly a few years ago with Redruth United. We played both teams. Such a shame they have a decent setup. Hope they can rebuild 

[John Mead]

On 11/10/2022 at 22:57, Dave Deacon said:

One league, but how many divisions?

Presumably an East and West.

So at the moment in the East - there are in effect 5 'divisions' - SPL East, ECPL, Duchy Prem, D1 & D2 - will there still be 5 come the merge into 'one league'?

Likewise in the West - currently 7 - SPL West, Combo, Trelawny (5) - will there still be 7 divisions come the new set-up?

Presumably there will be, otherwise what's the point?

If the proposed restructure happens, it will create a "mini- pyramid" within Cornwall. All teams playing under the same League Rules and having the same promotion/relegation protocols. In addition, players should only be registered to one club within the set-up. To me, it's a no-brainer and will address many of the issues which currently exist.

[Ian Hunn]

That all sounds very good but will the promotion criteria still be the same with regards to facilities that are required to be able to go up from the st Pirans league .

I think at the moment that is a major problem with the pyramid set up clubs are expected to spend serious amounts of money on facilities to be able to progress when In fact they have got a side that could compete in the league above.Many clubs then don’t apply for promotion which means the pyramid system doesn’t work ,too many teams are playing in leagues that they shouldn’t be in.Some then struggle so badly that they can’t raise a side and pull out meaning no relegation for that division and others who would be relegated  have to stay in a league that they can’t compete in.

It means that there is very little natural promotion and relegation between divisions.The pyramid therefore doesn’t work!!

[Martin Eddy]

As Steve had mentioned on numerous occasions St. Pirans League is a feeder league so is governed by the National League system. 

[Adlestrop]

Perhaps Mr Mead could tell us just how many Clubs in the Piran League have the infrastructure to enable them to get promoted to the SW Peninsula

League.I'm struggling to find ONE:bearing in mind that the Reserve teams(7) will be unable to move upwards.

Is all this really worth this;and more importantly just who can benefit from this "no brainer"?

[John Mead]

I get the fact that promotion into Step 6 can be expensive but there are guaranteed grants to help (70% at present). Feeder Leagues are there for ambitious clubs to prepare for higher levels but with less demanding facility regulations - a stepping stone or rung on the ladder. Unfortunately, too many Clubs only become interested in promotion during a season in which they have a good team. Facility improvements, including planning permissions and grant applications have to be considered well in advance; ask Mullion, I've been visiting them for at least a 4 year period to guide them through the process and explain exactly what was needed. St Day are another club who have had a long-term plan which is now coming to fruition. Improved facilities will last for years and benefit many people. Players are not so predictable.

Long-term planning is the only way for ambitious Clubs. 

 

[cornishteddyboy]

Wait till we all have to form one league with players only allowed to sign for one team only. It will decimate sides both at the bottom of the Trelawny and Duchy who rely on players from other clubs/leagues who have not got games on a Saturday to fill up their ranks. 

You think it is bad now, just wait.

 

[John Mead]

2 minutes ago, cornishteddyboy said:

Wait till we all have to form one league with players only allowed to sign for one team only. It will decimate sides both at the bottom of the Trelawny and Duchy who rely on players from other clubs/leagues who have not got games on a Saturday to fill up their ranks. 

You think it is bad now, just wait.

 

So "Ringers" are OK?

You will still be able to use a limited number of players from your own club, which will benefit multi-team clubs and perhaps reduce the number of new clubs - instead, they could form a new team with an already established club.

[bighairydave]

51 minutes ago, Adlestrop said:

Perhaps Mr Mead could tell us just how many Clubs in the Piran League have the infrastructure to enable them to get promoted to the SW Peninsula

League.I'm struggling to find ONE:bearing in mind that the Reserve teams(7) will be unable to move upwards.

Is all this really worth this;and more importantly just who can benefit from this "no brainer"?

This has already been answered once! There has to be a feeder league whatever happens. So why the same questions over and over?

[Dave Deacon]

27 minutes ago, cornishteddyboy said:

It will decimate sides both at the bottom of the Trelawny and Duchy who rely on players from other clubs/leagues who have not got games on a Saturday to fill up their ranks

But surely though it shouldn't be the case that clubs have to rely on other clubs not having games! 

[John Mead]

13 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

But surely though it shouldn't be the case that clubs have to rely on other clubs not having games! 

Fully agree! If a club needs to borrow players to compete each week, perhaps a Sunday or mid-week League would be more appropriate. It would also be a better place for new clubs to establish themselves before applying to join a Saturday League.

[Glen Patterson]

I think a big change that's happened in the last 5-10 years is the lack of youngsters coming through. In years gone by teams would have a few decent youth players coming through every year & those players would be the future of the club. These days Helston, Truro & 1 or 2 other teams just mop up every decent under 18 player from around the county, kids aren't interested in playing for their home town 1st team anymore. 

[glass hips]

1 hour ago, Glen Patterson said:

I think a big change that's happened in the last 5-10 years is the lack of youngsters coming through. In years gone by teams would have a few decent youth players coming through every year & those players would be the future of the club. These days Helston, Truro & 1 or 2 other teams just mop up every decent under 18 player from around the county, kids aren't interested in playing for their home town 1st team anymore. 

I don’t think the fact no youngsters would want to play for your club, means there’s no youngsters coming through .. see young players every week at various clubs . 

[Martin Eddy]

Remember when I played 70/80's Penryn had 4 men's teams and they were all top of their league.

[Ian Pethick]

 

12 hours ago, Postman Pat said:

Remember when I played 70/80's Penryn had 4 men's teams and they were all top of their league.

The interview with Will Bryant (Morwenstow boss) was very enlightening, and a recommended listen. For the very good reasons he talked about in this, the days where the likes of Penryn could field 4 men's teams on a Saturday are over, and they're not coming back.  As somebody has mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the future for Cornish grass roots clubs could mean more youth sides (boys and girls), women's sides and  veterans sides. I would add midweek 5 a side and walking football teams to this (which seem to be areas of growth in participation) . May be a case of  adapt or die for many clubs.

[Martin Eddy]

10 hours ago, Way Of The Park said:

 

The interview with Will Bryant (Morwenstow boss) was very enlightening, and a recommended listen. For the very good reasons he talked about in this, the days where the likes of Penryn could field 4 men's teams on a Saturday are over, and they're not coming back.  As somebody has mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the future for Cornish grass roots clubs could mean more youth sides (boys and girls), women's sides and  veterans sides. I would add midweek 5 a side and walking football teams to this (which seem to be areas of growth in participation) . May be a case of  adapt or die for many clubs.

Wendron have 4 men's teams!

[Dave Deacon]

1 hour ago, Postman Pat said:

Wendron have 4 men's teams!

Five isn’t it?

11 hours ago, Way Of The Park said:

The interview with Will Bryant

Yes I think what Will said as to why the shortage of players had come about plus why they made the decision to drop out made a lot of sense.

The interview is right at the beginning of the latest podcast and so easy to find. It begins at 3 minutes and here’s a link to this week’s podcast :-https://anchor.fm/cornishsoccer/episodes/RAPPO--DEACS-Friday-Fix---October-14--2022-e1p7pld

[Kvmccan]

There are two massive problems that contribute to teams struggling -

1) Dual registrations is something I've constantly bought up as a problem and needs to be looked at. Players don't start one week so either decide to go and play for their 'other team' or get the hump and say sod it, I'm gonna play for someone else. If they could only sign for one Saturday team they'd have to fight for their place or get no football - and I know a lot of players would hate not to be involved in a team on a Saturday so would stay and fight for a place, it's just too easy at the moment to walk off and make themselves available to a team in a different Saturday league. This would also stop ringers being bought in taking the place of regular members of the squad - which also pushes those players out . 

2) Transfers. Players can freely move around teams throughout the season if they aren't in the starting eleven, don't need to try and fight for a place so just join someone else in the league and be playing for their new team in less than two weeks! Why can't we have a rule that a player can't move once registered at start of the season or at least have a transfer window in January so they'd have to try their best for the team they started with for at least 4-5 months - this then may help them improve because they've got to - this would take away the option of just 'giving up'. 

The bigger problem with the current system is its open to abuse by poor managers and coaches at higher levels who can't develop what they've got - I've had an certain 'new' peninsula manager contact two of my players directly, behind my back recently without having the common decency to inform me first - despite this also being in the rules that he he has to contact the club and say he's intending to put in the 7 day approach. This is total disrespect for what I've done with my lads, basically he can't be bothered or isn't good enough to work with with his own players so offers my lads money to go there after I've improved them. One of them he approached he actually had at the start of last season at his previous club and told him he wasn't good enough so the player came to me, has been outstanding improved even more and now the guy who told him he wasn't good enough is offering him money to dump us and play for him! How deluded is this guy? 

Everyone who knows me knows I actively try to help my lads climb the levels and have never stood in anyone's way that want to play higher - quite a few I've coached are now playing Western League - I've even helped them sort terms with their new clubs. I have now spoken to all of my players to let me know if they receive any illegal approaches from anyone (which they have always done anyway) and like this particular 'coach' we will report them and their club to the FA. The best bit is all my lads have said there's no way they'd ever play for him no matter what he offers 😂. I'm very lucky that my players are extremely loyal and always honest with me if they want to test themselves which is why I actively help them achieve that - but there's plenty of players out there that do have their heads turned by cash, which in these present times is something you can't blame them for.

My point is this is happening all over the county - deals are trying to be struck with players behind their managers back then once agreed they put in the approach, this needs to be stamped out - Peninsula and Western League chairmen should ask themselves if a coach isn't good enough to work with what he's got - how the hell did he get appointed in the first place? 

These two points are the main reasons good local clubs are struggling while 'money' clubs get bigger - then the club and manager get slaughtered when they have to pull out through losing players - like Will Bryant who is a top guy and did his absolute best to keep Morwenstow going. 

The FA need to sort these out ASAP before more clubs get decimated by crap peninsula managers who think money is the answer to improve their teams - surely if a player is already at a peninsula club he's good enough, just needs good coaching to help him get even better and not being replaced by a guy who's plays just for money

 

[BAGMAN]

49 minutes ago, Kvmccan said:

There are two massive problems that contribute to teams struggling -

1) Dual registrations is something I've constantly bought up as a problem and needs to be looked at. Players don't start one week so either decide to go and play for their 'other team' or get the hump and say sod it, I'm gonna play for someone else. If they could only sign for one Saturday team they'd have to fight for their place or get no football - and I know a lot of players would hate not to be involved in a team on a Saturday so would stay and fight for a place, it's just too easy at the moment to walk off and make themselves available to a team in a different Saturday league. This would also stop ringers being bought in taking the place of regular members of the squad - which also pushes those players out . 

2) Transfers. Players can freely move around teams throughout the season if they aren't in the starting eleven, don't need to try and fight for a place so just join someone else in the league and be playing for their new team in less than two weeks! Why can't we have a rule that a player can't move once registered at start of the season or at least have a transfer window in January so they'd have to try their best for the team they started with for at least 4-5 months - this then may help them improve because they've got to - this would take away the option of just 'giving up'. 

The bigger problem with the current system is its open to abuse by poor managers and coaches at higher levels who can't develop what they've got - I've had an certain 'new' peninsula manager contact two of my players directly, behind my back recently without having the common decency to inform me first - despite this also being in the rules that he he has to contact the club and say he's intending to put in the 7 day approach. This is total disrespect for what I've done with my lads, basically he can't be bothered or isn't good enough to work with with his own players so offers my lads money to go there after I've improved them. One of them he approached he actually had at the start of last season at his previous club and told him he wasn't good enough so the player came to me, has been outstanding improved even more and now the guy who told him he wasn't good enough is offering him money to dump us and play for him! How deluded is this guy? 

Everyone who's knows me knows I actively try to help my lads climb the levels and have never stood in anyone's way that want to play higher - quite a few I've coached are now playing Western League - I've even helped them sort terms with their new clubs. I have now spoken to all of my players to let me know if they receive any illegal approaches from anyone (which they have always done anyway) and like this particular 'coach' we will report them and their club to the FA. The best bit is all my lads have said there's no way they'd ever play for him no matter what he offers 😂. I'm very lucky that my players are extremely loyal and always honest with me if they want to test themselves which is why I actively help them achieve that - but there's plenty of players out there that do have their heads turned by cash, which in these present times is something you can't blame them for.

My point is this is happening all over the county - deals are trying to be struck with players behind their managers back then once agreed they put in the approach, this needs to be stamped out - Peninsula and Western League chairmen should ask themselves if a coach isn't good enough to work with what he's got - how the hell did he get appointed in the first place? 

These two points are the main reasons good local clubs are struggling while 'money' clubs get bigger - then the club and manager get slaughtered when they have to pull out through losing players - like Will Bryant who is a top guy and did his absolute best to keep Morwenstow going. 

The FA need to sort these out ASAP before more clubs get decimated by crap peninsula managers who think money is the answer to improve their teams - surely if a player is already at a peninsula club he's good enough, just needs good coaching to help him get even better and not being replaced by a guy who's plays just for money

 

Best post I've seen on this Forum for ages!!

[Steve Carpenter]

1 hour ago, Kvmccan said:

There are two massive problems that contribute to teams struggling -

1) Dual registrations is something I've constantly bought up as a problem and needs to be looked at. Players don't start one week so either decide to go and play for their 'other team' or get the hump and say sod it, I'm gonna play for someone else. If they could only sign for one Saturday team they'd have to fight for their place or get no football - and I know a lot of players would hate not to be involved in a team on a Saturday so would stay and fight for a place, it's just too easy at the moment to walk off and make themselves available to a team in a different Saturday league. This would also stop ringers being bought in taking the place of regular members of the squad - which also pushes those players out . 

2) Transfers. Players can freely move around teams throughout the season if they aren't in the starting eleven, don't need to try and fight for a place so just join someone else in the league and be playing for their new team in less than two weeks! Why can't we have a rule that a player can't move once registered at start of the season or at least have a transfer window in January so they'd have to try their best for the team they started with for at least 4-5 months - this then may help them improve because they've got to - this would take away the option of just 'giving up'. 

The bigger problem with the current system is its open to abuse by poor managers and coaches at higher levels who can't develop what they've got - I've had an certain 'new' peninsula manager contact two of my players directly, behind my back recently without having the common decency to inform me first - despite this also being in the rules that he he has to contact the club and say he's intending to put in the 7 day approach. This is total disrespect for what I've done with my lads, basically he can't be bothered or isn't good enough to work with with his own players so offers my lads money to go there after I've improved them. One of them he approached he actually had at the start of last season at his previous club and told him he wasn't good enough so the player came to me, has been outstanding improved even more and now the guy who told him he wasn't good enough is offering him money to dump us and play for him! How deluded is this guy? 

Everyone who's knows me knows I actively try to help my lads climb the levels and have never stood in anyone's way that want to play higher - quite a few I've coached are now playing Western League - I've even helped them sort terms with their new clubs. I have now spoken to all of my players to let me know if they receive any illegal approaches from anyone (which they have always done anyway) and like this particular 'coach' we will report them and their club to the FA. The best bit is all my lads have said there's no way they'd ever play for him no matter what he offers 😂. I'm very lucky that my players are extremely loyal and always honest with me if they want to test themselves which is why I actively help them achieve that - but there's plenty of players out there that do have their heads turned by cash, which in these present times is something you can't blame them for.

My point is this is happening all over the county - deals are trying to be struck with players behind their managers back then once agreed they put in the approach, this needs to be stamped out - Peninsula and Western League chairmen should ask themselves if a coach isn't good enough to work with what he's got - how the hell did he get appointed in the first place? 

These two points are the main reasons good local clubs are struggling while 'money' clubs get bigger - then the club and manager get slaughtered when they have to pull out through losing players - like Will Bryant who is a top guy and did his absolute best to keep Morwenstow going. 

The FA need to sort these out ASAP before more clubs get decimated by crap peninsula managers who think money is the answer to improve their teams - surely if a player is already at a peninsula club he's good enough, just needs good coaching to help him get even better and not being replaced by a guy who's plays just for money

 

Spot on Kev.

I totally agree with your first point and hopefully the proposed restructure will largely address that particular issue.

On your second point we are governed by long standing FA rules which allow players to do the rounds subject to the required notice periods.  Getting that changed would certainly be a challenge.  Feeding a proposal in through your league or local area CFA area rep would be your route.

Illegal approaches, which is essentially what you're talking about in your last bit, need to be reported. Unless they are nothing will change.  Disciplinary action has been taken in the past when the rules haven't been followed.

[Kvmccan]

2 minutes ago, Steve Carpenter said:

Spot on Kev.

I totally agree with your first point and hopefully the proposed restructure will largely address that particular issue.

On your second point we are governed by long standing FA rules which allow players to do the rounds subject to the required notice periods.  Getting that changed would certainly be a challenge.  Feeding a proposal in through your league or local area CFA area rep would be your route.

Illegal approaches, which is essentially what you're talking about in your last bit, need to be reported. Unless they are nothing will change.  Disciplinary action has been taken in the past when the rules haven't been followed.

I'm in no way blaming the league (or any leagues) for the seven day approach rule Steve - I know its not your rule and your hands are tied, it's totally down to the FA - in my opinion they need to start listening before more clubs suffer from it and end up folding - not just down here but all over the country. I'm pretty sure most league committes aren't too keen on the rule so please don't think it's aimed at you or your committee, just my opinion as being one of the big problems at grassroots level 

[Steve Carpenter]

9 hours ago, Kvmccan said:

I'm in no way blaming the league (or any leagues) for the seven day approach rule Steve - I know its not your rule and your hands are tied, it's totally down to the FA - in my opinion they need to start listening before more clubs suffer from it and end up folding - not just down here but all over the country. I'm pretty sure most league committes aren't too keen on the rule so please don't think it's aimed at you or your committee, just my opinion as being one of the big problems at grassroots level 

It wasn't taken that way Kev so not a problem.  Two points off the top of my head.

1.  Unless representations are made by numerous clubs across the country nothing will change.  Those representations would have to be channelled through the County FA's.

2.  As we're talking about non-contract players in recreational football there may be a legal aspect to it along similar lines to the rules that allow players to sign for a number of clubs.