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Early days , but promotion thoughts 🤔


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So with the imminent restructure and the top 4/5 being promoted to the new look western league… 

What will happen if Mullion and Bude continue their great start ? Do they have grounds that will meet step 5 grading…If not then would 6-7 placed go up ?

Could we see a Sticker or Penzance in the Western league… 

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2 hours ago, Cornishfootyfanatic said:

I think it’s safe to say 100% Blazey, then it’s anyone between Liskeard, Wendron, Mullion, Bude and Wadebridge. You can’t right St Austell off tho 

Dont think its safe to say st.blazey......lets wait and see how they get on against trail setters Bude and Mullion .

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9 hours ago, john black said:

Dont think its safe to say st.blazey......lets wait and see how they get on against trail setters Bude and Mullion .

Question is? Even if Bude and Mullion finish Top can they go up? And if not who might make a dash for the 6-7 spots ? 

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Both Mullion and Bude have done their clubs great credit with their start at a higher level this season.
The telling time in any season is when players of a certain calibre com to the notice of clubs who are willing to pay silly money to attract their talent.
As has been said there is a long way to go before the end of the season, and teams to be met that will provide stern opposition, who will have had time to work out the modus operandi of the newcomers who had been unknown to them in the past.
Good luck to Mullion and Bude for the rest of the season, we have never been to Mullion so can't comment on their facilities, but we have been to Bude ground where the geological slope would undoubtably preclude them from promotion to the Western League

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2 hours ago, We Two said:

Both Mullion and Bude have done their clubs great credit with their start at a higher level this season.
The telling time in any season is when players of a certain calibre com to the notice of clubs who are willing to pay silly money to attract their talent.
As has been said there is a long way to go before the end of the season, and teams to be met that will provide stern opposition, who will have had time to work out the modus operandi of the newcomers who had been unknown to them in the past.
Good luck to Mullion and Bude for the rest of the season, we have never been to Mullion so can't comment on their facilities, but we have been to Bude ground where the geological slope would undoubtably preclude them from promotion to the Western League

The slopes fine for western league we just gotta put  the floodlights up which are going up this season and a few other jobs and will be fine 

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5 hours ago, Box 2 Box said:

Question is? Even if Bude and Mullion finish Top can they go up? And if not who might make a dash for the 6-7 spots ? 

Mullion and bude showing the peninsular league isn’t a great standard difference and others in that league would still struggle in league down , I wonder if likes of Truro and mousehole devs could jump a level in this restructure. 

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So, are you saying the Bude squad doing well this term are the same players that finished (4th?) in St Piran league last year? Some players will have but I'd suggest they have recruited several new faces. In which case you can't really compare the standard of SWPL to a lower league.

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31 minutes ago, justanopinion said:

So, are you saying the Bude squad doing well this term are the same players that finished (4th?) in St Piran league last year? Some players will have but I'd suggest they have recruited several new faces. In which case you can't really compare the standard of SWPL to a lower league.

Don’t know much about bude but mullion are pretty much the same and think they finished 3rd , having watched mousehole 3x for sure feel they’d be top 6 -8 in peninsular league this year no problem. And yep feel it’s not a huge jump from top 5 st pirans to be competitive in peninsular , but iv know real idea what the new structure will look like next year 

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1 hour ago, 6times said:

Mullion and bude showing the peninsular league isn’t a great standard difference and others in that league would still struggle in league down , I wonder if likes of Truro and mousehole devs could jump a level in this restructure. 

Not with Mousehole 1st team being step 5.. 2 league gap needed I believe 

55 minutes ago, justanopinion said:

So, are you saying the Bude squad doing well this term are the same players that finished (4th?) in St Piran league last year? Some players will have but I'd suggest they have recruited several new faces. In which case you can't really compare the standard of SWPL to a lower league.

Senior cup will be a good measure of where they are at if they get to play a full strength step 5 team.

18 minutes ago, 6times said:

Don’t know much about bude but mullion are pretty much the same and think they finished 3rd , having watched mousehole 3x for sure feel they’d be top 6 -8 in peninsular league this year no problem. And yep feel it’s not a huge jump from top 5 st pirans to be competitive in peninsular , but iv know real idea what the new structure will look like next year 

St Pirans will be unchanged ie one gos up I think .. 🤔 likely to be St Day, unless Mousehole 1st team get promoted (looking unlikely) which would allow Mousehole development to be promoted should they finish top..

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1 hour ago, Box 2 Box said:

 

1 hour ago, Box 2 Box said:

 

3 hours ago, 6times said:

Mullion and bude showing the peninsular league isn’t a great standard difference and others in that league would still struggle in league down , I wonder if likes of Truro and mousehole devs could jump a level in this restructure. 

Not with Mousehole 1st team being step 5.. 2 league gap needed I believe 

2 hours ago, justanopinion said:

So, are you saying the Bude squad doing well this term are the same players that finished (4th?) in St Piran league last year? Some players will have but I'd suggest they have recruited several new faces. In which case you can't really compare the standard of SWPL to a lower league.

Senior cup will be a good measure of where they are at if they get to play a full strength step 5 team.

 

Looking forward to playing Falmouth away in the cup  on the 5th October 

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On 19/09/2022 at 10:52, Ben potter said:

The slopes fine for western league we just gotta put  the floodlights up which are going up this season and a few other jobs and will be fine 

Not a chance Bude will be up to scratch. 
There’s already been numerous complaints from match officials about the facilities (or lack of) at the club.

Big works to be done still.

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On 20/09/2022 at 20:27, FootballChat said:

Not a chance Bude will be up to scratch. 
There’s already been numerous complaints from match officials about the facilities (or lack of) at the club.

Big works to be done still.

It will be we shall see 😂👌

On 20/09/2022 at 20:06, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

Surely you don't meet the stand requirement regarding number of seats?

Yep in bench seats we gave minimal requirements 

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11 hours ago, Ben potter said:

It will be we shall see 😂👌

Yep in bench seats we gave minimal requirements 

I think it might be a case Ben that seats are not required to join Step 6, but you need to have 50 to play at Step 6 and then it's a 100 at Step 5.

The entry criteria for Step 6 is that you have to have covered accommodation, but it doesn't specify seats, but once you're in Step 6, it's a 100 under cover of which 50 are seats, which need to be provided by the 31st March and then at Step 5 that doubles!

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On 20/09/2022 at 20:06, Both Sides of the Tamar said:

Surely you don't meet the stand requirement regarding number of seats?

Yep in bench seats we gave minimal requirements, the extra seating will be done and the other requirements met we got till 31st of march 

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2 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

I think it might be a case Ben that seats are not required to join Step 6, but you need to have 50 to play at Step 6 and then it's a 100 at Step 5.

The entry criteria for Step 6 is that you have to have covered accommodation, but it doesn't specify seats, but once you're in Step 6, it's a 100 under cover of which 50 are seats, which need to be provided by the 31st March and then at Step 5 that doubles!

Yea this will be done by 31st of march so no issues 

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On 22/09/2022 at 10:35, Dave Deacon said:

I think it might be a case Ben that seats are not required to join Step 6, but you need to have 50 to play at Step 6 and then it's a 100 at Step 5.

The entry criteria for Step 6 is that you have to have covered accommodation, but it doesn't specify seats, but once you're in Step 6, it's a 100 under cover of which 50 are seats, which need to be provided by the 31st March and then at Step 5 that doubles!

That is my understanding Dave -100 under cover with 50 of them being seats! I haven’t been to Bude post Covid, but on my last visit these requirements not met.

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Phil Hiscox said on the Deacs and Rappo Podcast that Mullion and Bude would both be turned down for promotion because there grounds are not up to the required standards bu they have 6 months to put the right ,think it said  Bude have just got 3 new players in they have brought it inc Tornado Bello it was them or Mullion who had signed 3 new players .

It would be lovely to see 1 of these 2 teams win the league or a cup but lets wait until they have played 1 of the big clubs Budes test comes Saturday week when they play Wadebridge i am looking forward to getting back to the Bridger love that club and people there real good people .  It would be lovely to see a small club win the league not someone who spends fortunes on players What a team Wendron are best team i have seen this year so come on Wendron win the league 

 

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Not sure if there's any detail yet on how many St Piran/Devon League clubs will be entitled/invited to join Step 6 at the end of the season. Basic arithmetic suggests nornal rules will be suspended.  

Peninsula West currently has seventeen teams with the prospect of (at least) four getting promoted. That leaves thirteen. Promote three St Piran clubs and you've still got an all-Cornish division on the basis the new league will have sixteen clubs (as preferred by the FA but maybe not the new combined league administration which may eventually favour eighteen). Take no clubs from the St Piran - should none be interested/suitable - and you're switching three clubs across from Devon.

Likely to be similar issue in Devon. If no clubs stepping up from the Devon League replenishments will be moved across from Somerset and Dorset. Unless I'm missing something the extreme case is West = 13 Cornwall + 3 Devon; Central =12 Devon + 4 Somerset/Dorset.

That's the extreme but it shows the importance of clubs stepping up from the Devon and St Piran leagues. Much depnds on that with a knock-on effect all the way through to Wiltshire and Gloucestershire. 

As for what happens to the winners of the new step 5 leagues, there's still no detail about that. Based on there being seventeen leagues in a system designed for sixteen, something will need to give. Phil Hiscox, talking to a podcast based in the East Midlands, spoke along the lines that "people are suggesting" the two winners - Bristol/Somerset and Cornwall/Devon - could play-off for the automatic promotion place. The losers would then face a relegation/promotion play-off against a poorly-placed step 4 team. 

Theoretically that could mean a Cornwall/Devon team may not be promoted for years. Or every season. Or, of course, something in between.          

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14 hours ago, Easterfield said:

Not sure if there's any detail yet on how many St Piran/Devon League clubs will be entitled/invited to join Step 6 at the end of the season. Basic arithmetic suggests nornal rules will be suspended.  

Peninsula West currently has seventeen teams with the prospect of (at least) four getting promoted. That leaves thirteen. Promote three St Piran clubs and you've still got an all-Cornish division on the basis the new league will have sixteen clubs (as preferred by the FA but maybe not the new combined league administration which may eventually favour eighteen). Take no clubs from the St Piran - should none be interested/suitable - and you're switching three clubs across from Devon.

Likely to be similar issue in Devon. If no clubs stepping up from the Devon League replenishments will be moved across from Somerset and Dorset. Unless I'm missing something the extreme case is West = 13 Cornwall + 3 Devon; Central =12 Devon + 4 Somerset/Dorset.

That's the extreme but it shows the importance of clubs stepping up from the Devon and St Piran leagues. Much depnds on that with a knock-on effect all the way through to Wiltshire and Gloucestershire.        

The FA have made it clear that they don't want to decimate the feeder leagues as part of this restructure. To do so would put the feeders in danger of not being able to meet the FA requirements for that level. 

The current understanding is that normal promotion rules will apply i.e. finish in the top 5 and meet the ground grading criteria.  Exceptionally, a second club in each division that meets the above may be promoted this season giving a maximum of 4 promotees.  There is healthy interest in promotion from the West Division but currently only one club in the East Division with promotion ambitions.

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1 hour ago, Steve Carpenter said:

The FA have made it clear that they don't want to decimate the feeder leagues as part of this restructure. To do so would put the feeders in danger of not being able to meet the FA requirements for that level. 

The current understanding is that normal promotion rules will apply i.e. finish in the top 5 and meet the ground grading criteria.  Exceptionally, a second club in each division that meets the above may be promoted this season giving a maximum of 4 promotees.  There is healthy interest in promotion from the West Division but currently only one club in the East Division with promotion ambitions.

Thanks, Steve. Much appreciated.

That suggests a 16-team step 6 West division could still be all-Cornish which -  in turn - helps towards the number of Devon teams in the Central division (my earlier “extreme” figures inadvertently counted Bridport as Devon).  

The East then becomes the next sixteen (or whatever) once the first thirty-two (as above) have been plotted on the map.

Sixteen-team step 6 divisions clearly limit the impact on the feeder leagues. Put that up to eighteen and the picture changes dramatically. 

As things I stand, I'd suggest any aim (from 23/24) of sixteen step 6 clubs in each of Cornwall and Devon is a reasonable reflection of who is who and whar is what. Just about anyhow. 18-20 might be possible in step 6 East with the potential of spreading into Wiltshire and Gloucestershire (and with there currently being such a large Western 1).    

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There appears to be several Cornish Ladies teams playing as far afield as Bristol, Somerset, Wiltshire, etc who seem to be able to function within their financial means, plus raising a team to play in those areas doesn't seem to be a problem.
So what are the mens teams seeing as a problem

having to travel.

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Will the rule where there has to be a one 'step' gap between club sides still remain?  For example, a club could not have a reserve side in the SWPL (Step 6) whilst a first team is in the Western League (Step 5).

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32 minutes ago, GKBH said:

Will the rule where there has to be a one 'step' gap between club sides still remain?  For example, a club could not have a reserve side in the SWPL (Step 6) whilst a first team is in the Western League (Step 5).

It's actually a 2 Step gap and there's been no indication that this will be changed.  Reserve sides are limited to Step 6 but you may find a small number higher than that for historic reasons.

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2 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

Less league fixtures for the ladies might help!

I’m intrigued by your comment Dave. Cornwall’s 22 women’s league teams play across five divisions containing respectively 12 teams, 10 teams, 7 teams, 8 teams and 10 teams - that doesn’t instinctively feel like a lot of league fixtures to me. And 18 of those 22 teams never have to leave Cornwall to play a league game (although of course our geography means there are a few 75+ mile journeys per year). 

Would be interested to hear more on how fewer league fixtures would help. 

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10 minutes ago, GaryHocking said:

Would be interested to hear more on how fewer league fixtures would help. 

Think he meant that the ladies have less fixtures and so don't have the travel problems that adorns the mens games if they have to travel outside the county.
Well done the ladies we say, travelling doesn't appear to cause a problem however often they have to do it and isn't used as a reason for not being promoted as has happened in the past with league winners in the mens game.

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50 minutes ago, GaryHocking said:

I’m intrigued by your comment Dave. Cornwall’s 22 women’s league teams play across five divisions containing respectively 12 teams, 10 teams, 7 teams, 8 teams and 10 teams - that doesn’t instinctively feel like a lot of league fixtures to me. And 18 of those 22 teams never have to leave Cornwall to play a league game (although of course our geography means there are a few 75+ mile journeys per year). 

Would be interested to hear more on how fewer league fixtures would help. 

I think you misinterpreted what Dave said. 

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3 hours ago, Steve Carpenter said:

It's actually a 2 Step gap and there's been no indication that this will be changed.  Reserve sides are limited to Step 6 but you may find a small number higher than that for historic reasons.

So for example , Helston would need to be at step 3 ? For their reserves to play step 6?  Steps (4) and (5) being the two step gap ?

I always thought it was a one step gap 🤔

so the likes of Mousehole reserves who could conceivably finish 1st or 2nd couldn’t be promoted if their 1st team won the western league ??

confused.com

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47 minutes ago, Footy Detective said:

Isn’t it down to individual leagues ? Some say one step and others two steps ?

I know Phil Hiscox has been criticised in the past for staunchly refusing reserve teams to come into the SWPL unless the first team were playing in the Southern league at least.

Is it Phil’s decision or the FAs ?

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Richard Pallot at the CCFA told me and a group of us at a meeting if a club was at Step 5 in the Western League, their reserve side couldn’t go up to Step 6 and join the South Western League. So they remain in the St Piran at Step 7 regardless of finishing high up the table. Unless of course the 1st Team go up to the Southern League at Step 4. 
But then if you had 2 teams sharing a pitch at Steps 4 and 6 you’d have an awful lot of games on it as well as the politics to juggle from the two leagues. 

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From a football perspective, having a large enforced gap in standards between a 1st and 2nd team is disadvantageous as it means a big step up in standards if you wish to use a reserve player in the 1st team. This then encourages teams to sign players from clubs in leagues closer to their standard as cover.

Let's not debate that one again!

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3 hours ago, Box 2 Box said:

So for example , Helston would need to be at step 3 ? For their reserves to play step 6?  Steps (4) and (5) being the two step gap ?

I always thought it was a one step gap 🤔

so the likes of Mousehole reserves who could conceivably finish 1st or 2nd couldn’t be promoted if their 1st team won the western league ??

confused.com

3 hours ago, Footy Detective said:

Isn’t it down to individual leagues ? Some say one step and others two steps ?

I know Phil Hiscox has been criticised in the past for staunchly refusing reserve teams to come into the SWPL unless the first team were playing in the Southern league at least.

NLS Regulation 7.2 below.  This should clarify for you.

Reserve teams, including a team from a club or Club which is not considered by the Committee to be sufficiently separate from another club or Club, will not be permitted to compete above Step 6 in the NLS. There must be a minimum of two Steps between a first and reserve team. This does not apply at Steps 6 and Feeder League level. No two teams from the same Club can play at the same Step.

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6 hours ago, GaryHocking said:

I’m intrigued by your comment Dave. Cornwall’s 22 women’s league teams play across five divisions containing respectively 12 teams, 10 teams, 7 teams, 8 teams and 10 teams - that doesn’t instinctively feel like a lot of league fixtures to me. And 18 of those 22 teams never have to leave Cornwall to play a league game (although of course our geography means there are a few 75+ mile journeys per year). 

Would be interested to hear more on how fewer league fixtures would help. 

It was in response to earlier comment re "So what are the mens teams seeing as a problem having to travel."

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