Enough is Enough

[Steve Carpenter]

The e-mail below was received today from the FA.  All of those with an e-mail address on the FA's system should also have received a copy.  A quite timely e-mail given the early season goings on recorded on the various league sub-forums.

It’s time to stamp out unacceptable behaviour in grassroots football. This letter has been sent to everyone involved in grassroots football (step 5 and below) who we have an email address for in our system. Football has a unique power to deliver amazing benefits to individuals and communities. Not only does it keep us physically and mentally healthy, but it also builds long lasting friendships, teaches leadership and resilience and inspires the nation.   However, for all the good that football can bring, sadly last season, at all levels of the game, there were too many examples of unacceptable behaviours that had the opposite impact. At the grassroots level, these included swearing, aggressive shouting and persistent arguing among spectators, players and officials. It is only a small minority of people that act in this way, but these individuals can spoil the game for everyone, causing children and young people to not want to play, referees and volunteers to drop out and spectators to stop supporting their team.  As The Football Association we are not going to stand by and allow this to happen. We will take action against those that spoil the game for others. For this coming season we will: • Promote our RESPECT message to encourage the right behaviours. • Consider harsher sanctions for those behaving inappropriately. • If necessary, we will continue to look at how we strengthen penalties and suspension periods so that we can effectively tackle behaviours that have no place in the game. • Trial different initiatives to help encourage the right behaviours, including piloting two silent side-lines weekends. As a League, we recognise the key role you have in delivering a positive football environment for all. We have pulled together the attached one pager which sets out what action you can take against those who are not exhibiting the right behaviours.  Please play your part and let's make this season a brilliant one for all.  Football deserves better, Enough is Enough.

[We Two]

Fine clubs league table points for persistent  booking of players above a given level, some pro clubs already fine players for persistent misdemeanors on or off the field.
Taking off points would soon teach clubs to sort out their playing staff and help the current state of referee abuse.

 

[Steve Carpenter]

44 minutes ago, We Two said:

Fine clubs league table points for persistent  booking of players above a given level, some pro clubs already fine players for persistent misdemeanors on or off the field.
Taking off points would soon teach clubs to sort out their playing staff and help the current state of referee abuse.

 

A change to the discipline regulations that allows for points deductions in specific circumstances will be out soon.  It's a 'stepped approach' and details will follow but the penalties will be applied by the FA, not the County FA's or leagues. 

An overview of the process was given at the discipline briefings, to which all clubs were invited, on 28th July.  Suffice to say not many clubs attended.

Watch this space!

[TheolderIgetthebetterIwas]

Love it...hope they start with the premier league and shut that lot up.

Premier league...BORING!

[Footy Detective]

It certainly needs stamping out and the only way to do it is with harsh penalties against individuals and then if it continues the club.

Agree with Older here and I have always said it, if you want it stamped out at the bottom then start at the top ! When kids see their idols getting away with it then they too will think they can, its so easy to lip read what premiership players are saying to referees.

[Ben potter]

Yea needs to be better but i do watch a lot of games we’re officials don’t help themselves making mistakes after mistakes and can see players and managers frustrations aswell ,they don’t just get a Abuse for no reason , so can be better all round from everyone 

[Martin Eddy]

Watching United v liverpool

kloop is screaming at the 4th official, there lies the problem. If they can do it in the premier league then it cannot be stopped at grassroots level. One game one law

 

[bighairydave]

2 hours ago, Ben potter said:

Yea needs to be better but i do watch a lot of games we’re officials don’t help themselves making mistakes after mistakes and can see players and managers frustrations aswell ,they don’t just get a Abuse for no reason , so can be better all round from everyone 

Assume they also scream and shout at the constant mistake after mistake by players too? 
 

Absolutely not and utter nonsense to use making a mistake an excuse for abuse.

 

You are part of the problem!

[Dave Deacon]

1 minute ago, bighairydave said:

You are part of the problem!

Part of the problem yes, but perhaps officials could also look at yourselves and agree some have to pull their socks up. 

[bighairydave]

11 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Part of the problem yes, but perhaps officials could also look at yourselves and agree some have to pull their socks up. 

Officials drive home and beat themselves up after any game in which the make a major error. They don’t do it on purpose and they certainly make less mistakes than the players.

[John Davies]

I’ve seen officials shout at players and also seen them completely adamant about a ‘correct’ decision when they could just admit that they made a judgement based on their view.

Being a former ref myself, I’d always endeavour to talk to players to de escalate a situation, even though the players may have got right on my tits! I’d also try to explain my decision was based upon my single position on the pitch; I can only see from my view and I’d always apologise if a player had a differing view.

Sounds a bit patronising I know, but I’ve seen some officiating in the past years, and how some refs deal with frustration and players appeals only seeks to cause more anger than calm. Telling players that they’re right and for players to go away. Respect works both ways! That aside, a calming discussion would suffice and then a caution (or sin bin these days) would be my reaction.

With everything though, there are good and bad, so this is not a specific view, just an example.

[Uwdi Krugg]

The amount of abuse that non league Referees get from coaching staff & spectators is appalling.

Another tragedy often flies under the radar: Linesmen 

Most of the disgusting vile remarks The Liners get are only heard by small numbers of people in close proximity to the official. How the Linesmen calmly ignore it and still have the enthusiasm to turn out the following week is a credit to their loyalty and love for the game.

I recently attended the Liskeard v Shepton Mallet cup tie. I happened to sit behind a very rude empty-head from Shepton who spent his entire time ridiculing and abusing the Liner totally disgustingly for no good reason.

Come half time I moved. Perhaps I should have confronted the idiot?

At the end of the day it's a Football game for everyone to enjoy, not just players and supporters, Officials too.

The sooner The Oafs who get off on victimisation realise this the better.

My sympathy for anyone unfortunate enough to end up near the clown from Shepton Mallet this season 🤦‍♂️

[BrummyBarry]

Let's hope that those in the positions of authority follow the protocol. Referees and their assistants will bear the brunt but one hope that's clubs take responsibility.  Warn rowdy spectators, tell their managers to act in a matter fitting for their desired club reputation and take ownership of their behaviour.

 

[Ben potter]

6 hours ago, John Davies said:

I’ve seen officials shout at players and also seen them completely adamant about a ‘correct’ decision when they could just admit that they made a judgement based on their view.

Being a former ref myself, I’d always endeavour to talk to players to de escalate a situation, even though the players may have got right on my tits! I’d also try to explain my decision was based upon my single position on the pitch; I can only see from my view and I’d always apologise if a player had a differing view.

Sounds a bit patronising I know, but I’ve seen some officiating in the past years, and how some refs deal with frustration and players appeals only seeks to cause more anger than calm. Telling players that they’re right and for players to go away. Respect works both ways! That aside, a calming discussion would suffice and then a caution (or sin bin these days) would be my reaction.

With everything though, there are good and bad, so this is not a specific view, just an example.

This is so true 👌

16 hours ago, bighairydave said:

Assume they also scream and shout at the constant mistake after mistake by players too? 
 

Absolutely not and utter nonsense to use making a mistake an excuse for abuse.

 

You are part of the problem!

 

16 hours ago, bighairydave said:

Assume they also scream and shout at the constant mistake after mistake by players too? 
 

Absolutely not and utter nonsense to use making a mistake an excuse for abuse.

 

You are part of the problem!

 

6 hours ago, John Davies said:

I’ve seen officials shout at players and also seen them completely adamant about a ‘correct’ decision when they could just admit that they made a judgement based on their view.

Being a former ref myself, I’d always endeavour to talk to players to de escalate a situation, even though the players may have got right on my tits! I’d also try to explain my decision was based upon my single position on the pitch; I can only see from my view and I’d always apologise if a player had a differing view.

Sounds a bit patronising I know, but I’ve seen some officiating in the past years, and how some refs deal with frustration and players appeals only seeks to cause more anger than calm. Telling players that they’re right and for players to go away. Respect works both ways! That aside, a calming discussion would suffice and then a caution (or sin bin these days) would be my reaction.

With everything though, there are good and bad, so this is not a specific view, just an example.

 

16 hours ago, bighairydave said:

Assume they also scream and shout at the constant mistake after mistake by players too? 
 

Absolutely not and utter nonsense to use making a mistake an excuse for abuse.

 

You are part of the problem!

It works both ways refs are just as bad as players in a lot of cases it’s not all the players faults 

[Steve Carpenter]

3 hours ago, Keith B said:

Some years ago at St Just, I spoke to a linesman during the half time break about fouls that he had not waved the flag for. His answer was simply - ''the referee told us both to watch for the off sides and, that he would look after the rest of the game''.

That surprised me somewhat - although it did of course answer why many fouls had gone seemingly unnoticed. Is it the standard practice for referees to detail what he/she want from the officials running the line ?

That's certainly how it was in my day Keith.  Unless you had two neutrals running the lines it was a 'ball in and out of play, goal kicks, corners and offsides, please don't give me any fouls' type brief.  Personally, I always asked them to bring to my attention anything that they thought I needed to know about when the ball next went dead.  Although I couldn't take any action I wanted to know so I could keep an eye out.  I don't expect much has changed in that respect over the years. 

[bighairydave]

20 minutes ago, Ben potter said:

This is so true 👌

 

 

 

It works both ways refs are just as bad as players in a lot of cases it’s not all the players faults 

Referees as bad as players, give me a break!

[Martin Eddy]

39 minutes ago, Steve Carpenter said:

That's certainly how it was in my day Keith.  Unless you had two neutrals running the lines it was a 'ball in and out of play, goal kicks, corners and offsides, please don't give me any fouls' type brief.  Personally, I always asked them to bring to my attention anything that they thought I needed to know about when the ball next went dead.  Although I couldn't take any action I wanted to know so I could keep an eye out.  I don't expect much has changed in that respect over the years. 

That always got my back up Steve, as a qualified referee then the referee in the middle should be able to speak to his assistant, and I know the other person may not be qualified but that should not penalise someone who is.

[Footy Detective]

And of course Referee’s and Lino’s so hate football that they turn up week in week out just to ruin it for us all ? Give me a break !

[Steve Carpenter]

31 minutes ago, Postman Pat said:

That always got my back up Steve, as a qualified referee then the referee in the middle should be able to speak to his assistant, and I know the other person may not be qualified but that should not penalise someone who is.

That was always the conundrum.  If you had one qualified referee on the line and a club assistant on the other you couldn't really allow one to make calls on fouls and one not.  All that would bring would be grief from one side and it was certainly against the guidance a the time.  I did turn up at Draceana for a game one week and had Nigel Jewell and Steve Lawrence running the lines for the clubs.  Both referees and completely reliable (as you would expect with those two gents) so although they weren't there in a 'neutral' capacity we worked it as a team of three as we would have done if appointed as such and once the teams got used to it, it went very well.  That's the other side of the coin.

[Steve Carpenter]

21 hours ago, TheolderIgetthebetterIwas said:

Love it...hope they start with the premier league and shut that lot up.

Premier league...BORING!

18 hours ago, Postman Pat said:

Watching United v liverpool

kloop is screaming at the 4th official, there lies the problem. If they can do it in the premier league then it cannot be stopped at grassroots level. One game one law

Whilst I would agree that those at the top of the game should be setting an example we could be waiting quite a while for that to happen.  That though does not detract from the responsibility that all of us involved at the levels that we operate at have to make sure that our game is in order.  Unacceptable behavior at matches by anyone involved be they spectators, players, managers, club officials or yes, match officials if it applies, is exactly that, unacceptable.  It cannot be justified 'because they do it on the telly'.

[Yourhavingalaugh]

In today’s society, people generally have less respect for authority than they use to, whether it’s towards a school teacher, police officer, traffic warden etc, so it’s no surprise that today, referees and lines persons receive an increase level of abuse. Personally, respect starts with the club, then the managers and so on. It seems to follow that teams with the worst discipline issues are managed by a very vocal manager who signs players which have the same verbal attributes as the manager. Personally, clubs should be appointing a manager(s) which will represent in a good light won’t sign bad eggs. A leopard never changes it’s spots.

[Smiler]

On 23/08/2022 at 15:34, bighairydave said:

Referees as bad as players, give me a break!

Please explain why after given the power to sin bin players for foul and abusive language that week in week out I go to watch local football and hear lots of colourful language coming from both players and management that is aimed at the officials and is 🤷‍♂️ ignored by the officials if referees were more consistent  in the use of this power surely this would help stamping out a lot of the abuse so yes the officials are part of the problem 

[bighairydave]

2 hours ago, Smiler said:

Please explain why after given the power to sin bin players for foul and abusive language that week in week out I go to watch local football and hear lots of colourful language coming from both players and management that is aimed at the officials and is 🤷‍♂️ ignored by the officials if referees were more consistent  in the use of this power surely this would help stamping out a lot of the abuse so yes the officials are part of the problem 

I think the statement saying the referees attitude to players is as bad was what I was referencing.

 

I can’t answer why and ask myself the same every week.

[Ben potter]

3 hours ago, Smiler said:

Please explain why after given the power to sin bin players for foul and abusive language that week in week out I go to watch local football and hear lots of colourful language coming from both players and management that is aimed at the officials and is 🤷‍♂️ ignored by the officials if referees were more consistent  in the use of this power surely this would help stamping out a lot of the abuse so yes the officials are part of the problem 

Totally agree mate , if they stamped it out early band used the sin bins and there cards correctly it would stop it , cause Of the lack of consistency by officials players and managers  can just do and say what they want 

[fenman]

Technical question .....   "sin bin " 10 minute bans are for dissent , does foul and abusive language fall into the category of dissent if it is not directed at the officials following an on field offence . For example if a player commits a foul or appeals against a corner or throw in and abuses an official  as a result , questioning the officials decision , that's dissent . Throwing abuse at an official without a cause ( other than a dislike ) isn't dissent . 

I'm not defending morons who abuse officials I'm merely pointing out a technical issue .

Also , according to a friend of mine who is fairly high up in the F.A.  , sin bins will not be adopted at the higher levels because television companies don't want it .Which proves that football has sold itself to the devil .

[Laws of the Game]

Just received the following sent to Cornwall FA Clubs, League and Referees, Enough is now really Enough!

 

Good Morning,

 

I take no pleasure in sending this email but it seems that either the email below was either not passed on to your managers/players/spectators or if it was then the content was ignored.

 

Despite the season being less than a month old we have seen over a dozen players dismissed for foul and abusive language, over 60 Sin Bins issued to players and 25 managers issued yellow cards for dissent in the technical area. Additionally in this month I have had to issue 12 Misconduct charges for various offences ranging from Threatening Behaviour to Foul and Abusive Language.

 

In truth I am appalled by the level of disrespect and abuse being given to our referees since the start of this season and it is on clubs to control their manager/players/spectators.

 

There is so much work going in the background to recruit and retain referees by our Referee team, including mentors, observers, and training staff and all this work is being completely undermined by the behaviour of players/managers/spectators.

 

Just this week I have had a level 4 and Level 5 quit refereeing, not because of one incident really but because of the endless criticism, moaning and dissent. Referees at grassroots level do this for enjoyment. At some point soon you will not have referees, it is as simple as that.

 

I will leave you with quotes from the referees that have quit this week in the hope that the message starts to get through because quite frankly I am absolutely disgusted at the behaviour since the start of the season and it is your responsibility as clubs to make sure your player/managers/spectators behave in an appropriate manner.

 

The FA and Cornwall FA will continue to push a message of respect and positivity and this will be more prevalent on our Social Media and Website in the coming weeks but ultimately unless the player players/managers/spectators have a long hard look in the mirror then you will lose referees.

 

A respected and experienced Level 4 Referee:

“I am emailing to let you know that due to ongoing hip issues I will be standing down from refereeing with immediate effect. With constant hip pain and more recently the constant torrent of abuse from players and managers I feel that I need to walk away as it is affecting my physical and mental well being”.

 

A referee with great marks across the board from Observers and clubs who is well placed to gain promotion from Level 5-4:

“After last night's game I've decided to stop refereeing for the forseeable. I currently feel It really isn't worth giving up my time. I know I have the power, authority and support from the Cornwall FA to sanction and punish teams that give dissent / abuse but retrospective punishment doesn't make the experience any better on the day. I really enjoy the purely refereeing side of things and 80% of the time have no issues. I would like to thank you for the opportunities and personal development you and the CFA has facilitated and provided. I may re-evaluate things before then but the way I'm feeling that's unlikely. Will keep you posted."

 

The fact is behaviour has caused both these officials to quit, so next time you as a club or league get frustrated because you don’t have an official, maybe think about why.

 

Kind Regards

 

Richard

Richard Pallot

Football Services Manager

Cornwall Football Association Limited

[St Darren]

With reference to thst email you received.  It would be interesting to see the breakdown of those sin bins at what level they are. 

Also,  I think I know the referee who quit "because of last nights game"  has contact been made to those clubs at the game saying what's happened? 

The CCFA will do nothing to those clubs thst are playing peninsula league or higher. 

The difference in officiating at different levels is massive. I watched the Helston v Falmouth game on Tuesday night. The referee had 2 chats with the Helston keeper,  then another chat calling the captain over.  No yellow card given, no sin bin issued! 

[bighairydave]

5 minutes ago, St Darren said:

With reference to thst email you received.  It would be interesting to see the breakdown of those sin bins at what level they are. 

Also,  I think I know the referee who quit "because of last nights game"  has contact been made to those clubs at the game saying what's happened? 

The CCFA will do nothing to those clubs thst are playing peninsula league or higher. 

The difference in officiating at different levels is massive. I watched the Helston v Falmouth game on Tuesday night. The referee had 2 chats with the Helston keeper,  then another chat calling the captain over.  No yellow card given, no sin bin issued! 

How do you know that the CCFA will do nothing to those clubs? I think it has got to the point now where teams will just have the referee taken away from them (or assistants at SWPL as the CCFA don't appoint the referee at that level).

[St Darren]

4 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

How do you know that the CCFA will do nothing to those clubs? I think it has got to the point now where teams will just have the referee taken away from them (or assistants at SWPL as the CCFA don't appoint the referee at that level).

Because teams/managers thst historically have given the most 'stick'  to officials, still play on a Saturday with 3 officials. 

I'm talking about those clubs at Swpl and above. We all know that referees come down harder on junior clubs.  Some have walked off the pitch.   Imagine that happening at Toolstation level (where the abuse is much higher)?? 

[bighairydave]

8 minutes ago, St Darren said:

Because teams/managers thst historically have given the most 'stick'  to officials, still play on a Saturday with 3 officials. 

I'm talking about those clubs at Swpl and above. We all know that referees come down harder on junior clubs.  Some have walked off the pitch.   Imagine that happening at Toolstation level (where the abuse is much higher)?? 

As I said, I envisage them having less games with a full complement of 3 officials the way things are going.

 

Perhaps then L4 officials may then realised they have more power and deal with it further.

 

Usually referees will walk because the have no support and fear for their safety, when there are 3 officials perhaps that isn’t felt as much as you have two colleagues to support you.

[St Darren]

1 minute ago, bighairydave said:

As I said, I envisage them having less games with a full complement of 3 officials the way things are going.

 

Perhaps then L4 officials may then realised they have more power and deal with it further.

 

Usually referees will walk because the have no support and fear for their safety, when there are 3 officials perhaps that isn’t felt as much as you have two colleagues to support you.

No chance.   I bet the referees don't even report the abuse they take at times! 

Id like to see the stats on where the sun bins/cautions have been issued 

[bighairydave]

8 minutes ago, St Darren said:

No chance.   I bet the referees don't even report the abuse they take at times! 

Id like to see the stats on where the sun bins/cautions have been issued 

They do!

And the reply is, “You have the tools do something about it.” Along with a lot of support behind the scenes.

[St Darren]

56 minutes ago, bighairydave said:

They do!

And the reply is, “You have the tools do something about it.” Along with a lot of support behind the scenes.

So back to what's been said before then.  Why don't the referees do anything about it? 

[bighairydave]

The main reason at the top end of the game is that clubs have a lot of power over a referee’s demotion or promotion.

[St Darren]

1 minute ago, bighairydave said:

The main reason at the top end of the game is that clubs have a lot of power over a referee’s demotion or promotion.

This says it all then.  The referees have the tools but they allow the clubs to dictate to them. 

I have no sympathy for them at all in this instance. 

[BrummyBarry]

Whilst the clubs have the ability to mark a referee and whilst those marks have bearing on their chances of promotion, abuse will be suffered by all match officials. Remove club marks and I bet you that referees will take action

 

[bighairydave]

2 hours ago, St Darren said:

This says it all then.  The referees have the tools but they allow the clubs to dictate to them. 

I have no sympathy for them at all in this instance. 

If they want to progress they don’t have many other choices.

[peggy78]

Really don't understand how a second email warning people about their treatment of Match Officials gets flipped on its head and it becomes the Official's fault. THIS IS EXACTLY THE ISSUE. No respect for the people putting themselves forward to officiate. You don't have to agree with the Ref, but you should accept decisions and certainly there is no need for threatening/abusive/violent behaviour. Why are people even trying to defend this?

And lets not forget, those that are refereeing in Trelawny, Combo, Duchy, ECPL, St Piran, etc are rarely doing it to benefit their career...

[Ref watch]

And here lies the problem. An email to support officials and it’s the officials that need to pull their socks up, the officials that need to stamp out abusive behaviour. 
 Would you give up 90 minutes a week to be verbally abused for every decision that you make?

After watching a few games in both Toolstation and South western league the Managers and dug out teams need to learn how to be respectful of officials. It’s not the officials fault that games are being lost it’s the team itself.

 

[Clubman]

On 23/08/2022 at 11:44, Keith B said:

Some years ago at St Just, I spoke to a linesman during the half time break about fouls that he had not waved the flag for. His answer was simply - ''the referee told us both to watch for the off sides and, that he would look after the rest of the game''.

That surprised me somewhat - although it did of course answer why many fouls had gone seemingly unnoticed. Is it the standard practice for referees to detail what he/she want from the officials running the line ?

When club assistants (line persons 🙃) are used, technically all they should be asked to indicate is ball in or out of play.

Depending on the referee's knowledge  of the assistant's capability, more responsibility may be given.

[bighairydave]

18 hours ago, St Darren said:

No chance.   I bet the referees don't even report the abuse they take at times! 

Id like to see the stats on where the sun bins/cautions have been issued 

here are the SWPL stats at least.