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Is this the final goodbye for the S4C?


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Many thanks for being sent this. If you click on the link, unless you’re a subscriber you won’t be able to read the article, but it’s below and surely the end of any grand plans for the Stadium of Cornwall!
 

https://cornwallreports.co.uk/exclusive-is-this-the-final-whistle-for-the-truro-stadium-project/

 

"Cornwall Council is preparing to scrap a government funding bid designed to build a stadium for Truro.

Officials and senior councillors are frantically trying to agree a form of words to explain their decision – and avoid having to admit that it effectively signals the final kick of a 10-year game which has seen various County Hall bosses use the promise of a stadium to justify a 3,500-home housing estate.

Today (Sunday) it seems more likely than ever that the stadium will never be built – at least not according to its original design.  A much smaller project remains a distant possibility, if a yet-to-be-written business case can justify it. ...................."

Out of respect to Cornwall Report, should you wish to read the whole article please click on the link and subscribe using the Pay as You Go. 

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Not a big surprise It was never going to happen anyway was it ?

Big question now is where is that £3 million going ? Also how many times have huge housing companies promised the local community gold and have never produced the goods ? Its time that the bent and corrupt ( sorry I meant district councillors) made these companies build what they proposed promised up front before even a footing for the first house was in place.

I feel sorry for TCFC and hope that any money ( if any )that is being withheld is made readily available to them to at least try and take some steps forward to securing a high level of football in the county.

 

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As has been said many times on here, would be good if somebody (anybody) from Truro City would explain what is going on.

Perhaps get Alex Black (or whoever is calling the shots now) on the Podcast in the new season? Although I am pretty sure you have probably been trying to do this anyway.

From a purely economic standpoint, the Mid Cornwall Metro does seem to be a better use of what money is available. 

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Thanks for this, Dave. I’d not heard of Graham Smith nor Cornwall Reports. I suspect he’s no fan of Cornwall Council, nor the Stadium for Cornwall, and that there’s a political edge to some of what he writes. But all power to his elbow.  It’s good to see somebody investigating things as they happen rather than reacting lamely afterwards.  

Before you removed the full version, I noticed a couple of things.

Firstly, how the short access road, and the busy-looking pile of gravel, at Langarth is being confirmed as somewhat akin to a dog marking out its territory. I’m here, you know!

Secondly, as reflected in the council vote in favour of allocating funds, opposition from north and east Cornwall where the stadium will be of hardly interest whatsoever. That’s the problem of a unitary authority, with no districts underneath, taking decisions for such a wide area.

I’m guessing the concept of a Stadium for Cornwall was based around the earlier rebranding of Truro City Hall as the Hall for Cornwall. But sport is not music, art or drama. The Hall is a place of convenience not a place of sporting pilgrimage. You might travel from Bude to the Hall just as you might travel to Exeter or Torquay for a similar event. 

To market a sports arena for an entire county was unusual. I can think of few counties where there would be overwealming interest in two teams from different sports sharing a venue which drew the attention of the whole county. Leicestershire springs ro mind but it's quite a different case and probably unique. The two clubs involved would be glaringly obvious. By contrast  A Stadium for Norfolk would be one for Norwich City alone. To me it seemed the stadium would only hang together as a Cornish project if:

  1. The Cornish rugby team play there.

  2. Non-sporting events, which wouldn’t otherwise come to Cornwall, were to be attracted.

  3. Cornish Pirates and/or Truro City (preferably both) managed to be promoted to levels previously unknown by either.  Outcomes that would be remarkable, rather than commonplace, and thus of unusual significace.   

You could add Cornwall FA representative matches and county finals but those would be more of a consequence once the stadium existed. 

The first amounts to much less these days with the county championship at the end of the season and, as near as dammit, no touring opposition for the county team to face. The second is an unknown quantity; possibly an extra date for elderly rock stars to add to their tours of the county cricket grounds (Neil Diamond may have come to Truro this sunmer rather than you going to Taunton).

Which leaves the third which, however you look at it, is probably more distant than even a few years ago. Perhaps too there was a potential problem in offering preferntial treatment to just one of the county's rugby clubs and just one football club.      

The Stadium for Cornwall concept was clever of course:  tap into political and educational goodwill with all the associated funding possibilities. If Graham Smith's assertions are correct it'll be easy to be wise after the event.  Would the whole idea have been better all along as simply a Stadium for the Cornish Pirates and Truro City? As soon as more and more parties became involved it seemd to become more complex and more deprendant on all manner of variables.

Or what about an even simpler approach all together? What if  Truro City had been able to do at Treyew Road what Plymouth Parkway have done at Bolitho Park? That would, I think, have done nicely. 

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I this 3 million pound still exists, and if the release-terms dictate, the best thing Truro could do is find a green-fields site on the edge of the city and just develop a ground suitable for their level of football, that has the capacity to be improved if Truro are able to move up the leagues. (Further promotion not actually viable on the face of it, some would say, but anyway...)

Failure to do this might see the club "die on the vine" unless it can be subsidised further, given the minimal crowds Truro now attract.  A real pity for a place the size of Truro.

 

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20 hours ago, The Town Man said:

I this 3 million pound still exists, and if the release-terms dictate, the best thing Truro could do is find a green-fields site on the edge of the city and just develop a ground suitable for their level of football, that has the capacity to be improved if Truro are able to move up the leagues. (Further promotion not actually viable on the face of it, some would say, but anyway...).

It's the difference between the various sums of money. The council voted to match funds that were hoped to be coming from central government. That would have gone into the pot alongside money from the other "partners" in the project. But, until the govenrnment delivers the money, it doesn't exist. In fact it's probably now a myth given its mention dates from something David Cameroon said, but almost certainly didn't put in writing, in 2015.

A cynic may say that some councillours doubted the existence of that money when they voted in favour of matching it. The council appears to have moved on to other projects by now and who can blame them.

The other money, a much smaller amount, does exist and is a sort of compensation package based on Treyew Road being lost to football. You would suspect this money has been ring-fenced for football facilities for the good of the people of Truro rather than necessarily anything in particular. In that case Plan A might be Langarth but, should that fail, there then has to be a plan B (legally I wonder if it could then be split across several projects?).  

 

20 hours ago, The Town Man said:

IFailure to do this might see the club "die on the vine" unless it can be subsidised further, given the minimal crowds Truro now attract.  A real pity for a place the size of Truro.

At which point you ask who loses should the Stadium for Cornwall not happen?

The people of Cornwall? (whoever they may be)

The very people for whom all the proposals argued. To what extent would they now be denied something? How much would the stadium have guaranteed something that didn’t already exist?

Far better to have a decent venue than not. But that’s not quite the same as saying it not happening would be devastating. The big shame would be that, if it fails, it's taken such a long time to do so without much happening anywhere else.

Cornwall Council?

I don’t envy local government since central government put a tighter and tighter screw on its powers and finances. But, as others have said,  there are a thousand and one other priorities. 

Perhaps the Stadium was a "vanity project" that suited the new council?  

Truro College?

Lots of potential spin-offs from the stadium although I’m sure the college will survive and continue to pull in students every day from half the county. Scope too at Tregye for more sport. 

Further education has changed over the years. Plenty of vanity there too,

Cornish Pirates?

How much has the Stadium got in their way in recent years? Also the none too small matter of constant chopping-and-changing in rugby about promotion and relegation between the top two divisions. And what will the Pirates be post-Dickie Evans? They still have Mennaye Field- is that so bad and inadequate?     

Truro City?

The big losers but largely because of the sale of Treyew Road ten years ago from which all else stems. Had their own ideas for a new ground, which may not have helped, and are now snookered by the existence of a branch of Lidl as much as the non-existence of the Stadium for Cornwall. 

 

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18 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

I wasn't going to say anything more but, suddenly, this has become a well-timed thread. 

Every statement I've seen from the Stadium for Cornwall people has been relentlessly upbeat, aspirational and often rather glib. Now we've one that isn't and there's the first sign of a "blame game".

If this proves to be the end of the project  - nothing official yet, of course, but plenty of conjecture -  the focus turns to two parties.

First, what would the Pirates do? Retreat to the Mennaye Field and concentrate on being a steady Championship outfit? Not that there may be easy times ahead in even attempting to stand still.

Secondly, the impact on Truro City. If the "dream" is dead you'd imagine the club's value - at the top end of the market - would suddenly plummet.

That would create a choice for the Pirates:

Continue to seek an agreeable football partner for resurrecting S4C or a similar project?

Get shot of Truro City and leave it to its own fate even if it's the most fiery of fire sales?

It strikes me that, if sometimes  fortuitously, there have been groups of like-minded individuals around football clubs working ahead of the game on a contingency plan should the price eventually prove to be right. This could be a supporters trust/community approach; it could be a group of people prepared to put in what they can afford and run the club together.

Either way, if they are sensible, they will eventually pitch at what they can afford: a club operating at the same level as now, just below the current level or several notches below. It may be the same entity as the current club; it could be a new formation.

If rhere's anyone of that mind at Truro, today's developments might just act as a focus for their thoughts. The experience from elsewhere (Bury the most recent example) is that it would be no disgrace if what emerged was at a much lower level. If that's the case, so be it.

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County FA Representative Football is almost dead in the water with the demise of the FA County Youth Cup and the South West Counties Competitions. 

More clarification on the future of these at the County AGM next Thursday. 

As for the more domestic Cup Competitions and venue/s for Finals, we shall see, a long way in the future me thinks. Hire costings would come into the equasion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Easterfield said:

Thanks for this, Dave. I’d not heard of Graham Smith nor Cornwall Reports. I suspect he’s no fan of Cornwall Council, nor the Stadium for Cornwall, and that there’s a political edge (towards which I may be sympathetic) to some of what he writes. But, ultimately, all power to his elbow.  It’s good to see somebody investigating things as they happen rather than reacting lamely afterwards through the medium of manufactured quotes.  As he says: no pop-ups, no click baits, no adverts on news pages. 

Difficult to say much original about this but I’ll give it a go from afar and note that, before you removed the full version, I noticed a couple of things.

Firstly, how the short access road, and the busy-looking pile of gravel, at Langarth is being confirmed as somewhat akin to a dog marking out its territory. I’m here, you know!

Secondly, as reflected in the council vote in favour of allocating funds, the likely antipathy from north and east Cornwall where the stadium will be of hardly interest whatsoever. That’s the problem of a unitary authority, with no districts underneath, taking decisions for such a wide area.

But, of course, it’s sport not music, art or drama. I’m guessing the concept of a Stadium for Cornwall was based around the earlier rebranding of Truro City Hall as the Hall for Cornwall. That was fine. People travel big distances for one-off events; nor are these much based around territorial loyalty or favour (unless it's an all-Cornwall competition or whatever). You might travel from Bude to the Hall just as you might travel to Exeter or Torquay for a similar event. The venue is a convenience not a place of, for wont of a better description, sporting pilgrimage.

From outside the area I liked the idea of a new sports venue, and didn't wish to knock the associated ambition, but to market a sports arena for an entire county was unusual. I can think of few counties where there would be overwealming interest in two teams from different sports sharing a venue which drew the attention of the whole county. Leicestershire springs ro mind but it's quite a different case and probably unique. The two clubs involved would be glaringly obvious. By contrast  A Stadium for Norfolk would be one for Norwich City alone.    

To me it seemed that, after all the clever marketing, the stadium would only hang together as a Cornish project if in no particular order :

  1. The Cornish rugby team play there.

  2. Non-sporting events, which wouldn’t otherwise come to Cornwall, were to be attracted.

  3. Cornish Pirates and/or Truro City (preferably both) managed to be promoted to levels previously unknown by either.  Outcomes that would be remarkable, rather than commonplace, and thus of unusual significace.   

You could add Cornwall FA representative matches and county finals but those would be more of a consequence once the stadium existed. 

The first amounts to much less these days with the county championship at the end of the season and, as near as dammit, no touring opposition for the county team to face. The second is an unknown quantity; possibly an extra date for elderly rock stars to add to their tours of the county cricket grounds (Neil Diamond may have come to Truro this sunmer rather than you going to Taunton).

Which leaves the third which, however you look at it, is probably more distant than even a few years ago. Perhaps too there was a potential problem in offering preferntial treatment to just one of the county's rugby clubs and just one football club. I'll step back from that one.     

The Stadium for Cornwall concept was clever of course:  tap into political and educational goodwill with all the associated funding possibilities. If Graham Smith's assertions are correct - meaning the project is truly destinated for failure -  it'll be tempting to be wise after the event.  Would the whole idea have been better-approached all along as simply a Stadium for the Cornish Pirates and Truro City? The Pirates on their own at first, later to be joined by Truro City, would have had a big job on their hands not just in terms of cash. But once more parties became involved it seemd to become more complex and more deprendant on all manner of variables.

Or what about an even simpler approach all together? What if  Truro City had been able to do at Treyew Road what Plymouth Parkway have done at Bolitho Park? That would, I think, have done nicely. 

It’s been said many times that Cornish football is very parochial. Nobody outside of Truro cares very little about Truro City. Always been that way and always will. Possibly will only change if they get in the EFL which will never happen. There is a similar issue with the Pirates but playing on a Sunday has helped swell their crowds. People from Cornwall would rather go to see the Exeter Chiefs although it is costly. Any stadium in Cornwall would have to be created with alternative entertainment in mind but even then it would have to compete with Eden. Always was an ambitious pipe dream but that’s exactly what it has turned into but Cornish soccer really doesn’t care on the whole. 

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Let’s face it cornwall council is corrupt! All the so called Cornwall mps aren’t interested in Cornwall write plenty of crap on social media and do nothing they say. Such a big thing for Cornwall this would have been. A multi purpose stadium used all year around. The money that could be made and re invested and the people it would have attracted. Terrible from those above! 

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17 minutes ago, le boss said:

It’s been said many times that Cornish football is very parochial. Nobody outside of Truro cares very little about Truro City. Always been that way and always will. Possibly will only change if they get in the EFL which will never happen. There is a similar issue with the Pirates but playing on a Sunday has helped swell their crowds. People from Cornwall would rather go to see the Exeter Chiefs although it is costly. Any stadium in Cornwall would have to be created with alternative entertainment in mind but even then it would have to compete with Eden. Always was an ambitious pipe dream but that’s exactly what it has turned into but Cornish soccer really doesn’t care on the whole. 

 

While this is currently true, and will remain true unless something is done, I believe successive regimes have failed to engage the community - something which definitely can't be done when the team play outside of the city. I'm a big believer in growing a fanbase.

 

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1 hour ago, le boss said:

It’s been said many times that Cornish football is very parochial. Nobody outside of Truro cares very little about Truro City. Always been that way and always will. Possibly will only change if they get in the EFL which will never happen. There is a similar issue with the Pirates but playing on a Sunday has helped swell their crowds. People from Cornwall would rather go to see the Exeter Chiefs although it is costly. Any stadium in Cornwall would have to be created with alternative entertainment in mind but even then it would have to compete with Eden. Always was an ambitious pipe dream but that’s exactly what it has turned into but Cornish soccer really doesn’t care on the whole. 

That's understandable when most of Cornwall's larger towns are roughly the same size; each (save for Camborne and Redruth) historically having football teams of similar stature. Save for Falmouth in the 1970s, and Truro more recently, there's not really been a reason for many people to go to another town to watch anotther team. If they were to travel it would probably be Argyle. 

That's stopped any club from being much bigger than the rest. Had one of the towns been considerably larger, with a higher-ranked team to match, things might have different. Reading Craze's post it's possible that Truro had an opportunity - amongst non-aligned football watchers anyway - but it fizzled out because of circumstances.

Funny how things often get established fairly quickly. Taunton is bigger than Yeovil but Yeovil  has had by far a bigger football team since the 1920s and 1930s.

Sure you're right about the Chiefs if trains coming into Exeter on matchdays are anything to go by. Probably drawing people over from Bath too.  

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3 minutes ago, Craze said:

 

While this is currently true, and will remain true unless something is done, I believe successive regimes have failed to engage the community - something which definitely can't be done when the team play outside of the city. I'm a big believer in growing a fanbase.

 

But you won’t get supporters from other clubs jumping ship and anybody who thinks differently is delusional. So exactly where you hope to grow a fan base from is not too clear. Light entertainment might be the way forward but look at the prices Eden charge and even tickets at HFC are expensively prohibitive. There just isn’t that sort of money down here to continually sustain a large stadium. 

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1 minute ago, Easterfield said:

That's understandable when most of Cornwall's larger towns are roughly the same size ; each (save for Camborne and Redruth) historically having football teams of similar stature. Save for Falmouth in the 1970s, and Truro more recently, there's not really been a reason for many people to go to another town to watch anotther team. If they werre to travel it would probably be Argyle. 

That's stopped any club from being much bigger than the rest. Had one of the towns been considerably larger, with a higher-ranked team to match, things might have different.

Funny how things often get established fairly quickly. Taunton is bigger than but Yeovil has had by far a bigger football team since the 1920s and 1930s.

Sure you right about the Chiefs if trains coming into Exeter on matchdays are anything to go by. Probably drawing peopel over from Bath too.  

When you mention Taunton in sporting terms, you automatically think of first class cricket and Somerset so maybe they have seen that the appetite for any higher standard football is not there. Truro as a city has become more of a housing estate than a commercial destination in recent years. Shops gone and the crowds are slowly dwindling. 

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Right now, I'm wondering why Pete Masters is sniffing around this thread. Do you know something we don't, or are you just watching to see what's being speculated/said? (Because you don't have to sign in to do that).

On topic. As far as I'm aware, that £3mil is for City's new ground (the council have said so). I'm imagining that the council doesn't want to hand that over to the Pirates... And I don't blame them. 

The sooner the Pirates sell the club and sod off back down west, the sooner City can move on - In whatever form that ends up taking.

And yes, I know that there would be financial repercussions. 

I've been afraid of losing my club. But as far as I'm concerned, we're at risk of stagnating anyway.

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11 minutes ago, Devils@Dusk said:

Right now, I'm wondering why Pete Masters is sniffing around this thread. Do you know something we don't, or are you just watching to see what's being speculated/said? (Because you don't have to sign in to do that).

On topic. As far as I'm aware, that £3mil is for City's new ground (the council have said so). I'm imagining that the council doesn't want to hand that over to the Pirates... And I don't blame them. 

The sooner the Pirates sell the club and sod off back down west, the sooner City can move on - In whatever form that ends up taking.

And yes, I know that there would be financial repercussions. 

I've been afraid of losing my club. But as far as I'm concerned, we're at risk of stagnating anyway.

It is a public forum, and anybody can contribute (subject to moderation of course), but I've also been wondering why the ex Truro City chairman is taking such an interest in this subject (assuming it is him of course). 

The mystery deepens...

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16 hours ago, Peter Masters said:

You need to explain that one

 

 

 

Just look at the average attendances. Whatever the powers that be have done, they certainly haven't grown anything. Should've done whatever was required to have stayed in the city, even if it meant dropping back down the divisions. A football club is supposed to be there for the community it represents

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However, its no good looking back all the time.

When Truro City arrive back in the city to play, all being well, still at least in the Southern Premier - their world will be their oyster.

Mind you, this will have to be sooner rather than later before the likes of Mousehole and Helston, with their infrastuctures financially sound aleady, catch them up!

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11 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

However, its no good looking back all the time.

When Truro City arrive back in the city to play, all being well, still at least in the Southern Premier - their world will be their oyster.

Mind you, this will have to be sooner rather than later before the likes of Mousehole and Helston, with their infrastuctures financially sound aleady, catch them up!

Do you honestly think it will happen? There must come a point when the playing/management side say enough is enough. They are not going to take hollow promises forever. 

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On 23/06/2022 at 21:57, Way Of The Park said:

It is a public forum, and anybody can contribute (subject to moderation of course), but I've also been wondering why the ex Truro City chairman is taking such an interest in this subject (assuming it is him of course). 

The mystery deepens...

No mystery Gents, ex Truro City Chairman yes, but I would not like to see the Club fail again.

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1 hour ago, rocky170267 said:

Parkway will definitely not extend the ground share after 2023 so the club have one year to find a new stadium. It’s obvious that’s not going to happen

sorry but the club will probably fold

what an absolute Shambles

No, that will not happen, lots of positive things happening behind the scenes. Great team being put together, should be a good season 

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4 hours ago, Peter Masters said:

No, that will not happen, lots of positive things happening behind the scenes. Great team being put together, should be a good season 

I don't believe everything I read on the net these days. Being a City fan (among other things in my life) has left me a pessimist.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, sportsman10 said:

Any news on where this new stadium will be ?

There’s still the money from Treyew held by the council and what’s to say couldn’t end up doing something at Langarth.

All weather surface easier to provide than grass I should imagine. Have to be positive guys and move on without the Pirates 👍

 

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7 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

There’s still the money from Treyew held by the council and what’s to say couldn’t end up doing something at Langarth.

All weather surface easier to provide than grass I should imagine. Have to be positive guys and move on without the Pirates 👍

 

And 10 times more expensive than grass, with a twenty year life span before renewal!

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8 hours ago, Dave Deacon said:

There’s still the money from Treyew held by the council and what’s to say couldn’t end up doing something at Langarth.

All weather surface easier to provide than grass I should imagine. Have to be positive guys and move on without the Pirates 👍

Money which , on its own, could be very useful in providing modest facilities but a drop in the ocean for anything grander. 

Which means there would still need to be other money to make this money work best. Should the Pirates abandon the project what scope for Truro City and Truro College working on a scaled-down idea? Other than the college, it's hard to think of a potential "partner" as opposed to going it alone. The universities at Penryn, for instance, aren't particularly sports-minded in the courses they provide; Cornwall College has various sites but none in Truro.

On 23/06/2022 at 08:19, Dave Deacon said:

"Cornwall Council is preparing to scrap a government funding bid designed to build a stadium for Truro.

Officials and senior councillors are frantically trying to agree a form of words to explain their decision – and avoid having to admit that it effectively signals the final kick of a 10-year game which has seen various County Hall bosses use the promise of a stadium to justify a 3,500-hhome housing estate.

Today (Sunday) it seems more likely than ever that the stadium will never be built – at least not according to its original design.  A much smaller project remains a distant possibility, if a yet-to-be-written business case can justify it. ...................."

Back to Graham Smith's words written, by the look of it, a week ago. You may have expected a statement along the lines of an earlier council announcement saying that whichever of the four projects (Mid Cornwall metro, the stadium, Helston and St Austell regeneration) aren't put forward this time would be prioritised in future

Instead - as per https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/stadium-cornwall-cornwall-council-drops-7249182 - the leader of the Council speaking on Radio Cornwall provides another explanation:

"We’ve always worked with the stadium partners, and we got to a position in full council about three years ago where we committed up to £3 million pounds, but that was subject to a business case coming forward from the stadium partners, and then with us working with the Treasury and absolutely wanting to deliver out on the stadium.

We did not achieve that particular objective because we didn’t get a full business case submitted to us".

There may be obfuscation on all sides, the truth is hard to tell, but that's quite a statement as ooposed to upbeat talk of the next round of bids..

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5 minutes ago, TruroPostie said:

Whoa there !  There is a lot going on behind the scenes. TCFC will come out of this bigger and stronger. There a a few very canny people involved, and Truro City could well be in the EFL within 6 years. Have faith brothers .

 

Like....?

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13 hours ago, sportsman10 said:

Any news on where this new stadium will be ?  I mean if Truro some how get promoted where is this new magical ground in Cornwall they will use to meet all the ground requirements  ?  Surly the world should be starting now ? Even if it’s upgrading a current teams  ground to use  

That’s what I was thinking ! Surely 2 years from start to finish to build a ground ?? They are Finished unless they use a Rugby ground temporarily or something.

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3 hours ago, TruroPostie said:

Whoa there !  There is a lot going on behind the scenes. TCFC will come out of this bigger and stronger. There a a few very canny people involved, and Truro City could well be in the EFL within 6 years. Have faith brothers .

 

3 hours ago, Craze said:

 

Like....?

Wing and a prayer.....

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On 26/06/2022 at 08:14, TruroPostie said:

Whoa there !  There is a lot going on behind the scenes. TCFC will come out of this bigger and stronger. There a a few very canny people involved, and Truro City could well be in the EFL within 6 years. Have faith brothers .

Now that's optimistic 😵

 

 

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