Western League awaits after all!

[Dave Deacon]

The FA press release regarding allowing re-structure & promotions to go ahead this summer can be seen on the Swpl website :- https://www.swpleague.co.uk/blog-post/updates/

[TimmyRaa]

Well it looks like Saltash United are now a Toolstation Premier League team.  I have mixed feelings though.  It will be amazing to see how this talented bunch of lads will perform on a bigger stage. I can’t wait to visit some new grounds, but however, it will mean that I won’t be able to watch as many away games as before, because I can’t justify travelling to The Bristol area every other weekend.  I am coach for my sons football team and won’t have time to travel up after his game

[BAGMAN]

Helston taking promotion too.

[Del Boy]

Perplexed how they have done it over two seasons. No arguments that Helston would feel hard done by after their fantastic season two years ago. 
 

Congratulations to Saltash and Helston good luck for next season. 

[sportsman10]

More traveling for saltash lads. Will this mean the players wanting more money. ? Already miles behind what tavi and parkway pay. 

Saltash been down this road before and often ends up in players  leaving to play locally. Good luck to them tho. 

[silly billy]

4 hours ago, sportsman10 said:

More traveling for saltash lads. Will this mean the players wanting more money. ? Already miles behind what tavi and parkway pay. 

Saltash been down this road before and often ends up in players  leaving to play locally. Good luck to them tho. 

Out of interest, how much do Tavistock and Parkway pay their players?

[Philheybrookbay]

Well, personally I'm looking forward to some new grounds. But within a few years, the Western League will be like the SWPL with the likes of Mousehole,  St Blazey, Falmouth up. If you pay mega bucks and win, then simply its onwards to the Southern League. If you refuse- automatic relegation back to SWPL. 

[Journeyman009]

4 hours ago, Philheybrookbay said:

Well, personally I'm looking forward to some new grounds. But within a few years, the Western League will be like the SWPL with the likes of Mousehole,  St Blazey, Falmouth up. If you pay mega bucks and win, then simply its onwards to the Southern League. If you refuse- automatic relegation back to SWPL. 

No way saltash will compete in that league.. ain’t got the monies and people like Ryan lucassi up top and Chris menheink at the back .... 🤦‍♂️ Dane will be sacked by Christmas 

Joke how a club like saltash can go up ... 

1. 1. One new division will be created at Step 4, to be administered by the Northern Premier League;
   2. Two new divisions will be created at Step 5, to be administered by the Combined Counties League and the United Counties League; and
   3. The number of divisions at Step 6 will be reduced to 17.
2. In order to implement these divisional changes, 110 clubs will be required to upwardly move within the pyramid at Steps 4 to 6:
   1. 20 clubs will move from Step 5 to Step 4;
   2. 60 clubs will move from Step 6 to Step 5 (20 to backfill those Clubs elevated to Step 4, and 40 to populate the two new divisions); and
   3. 30 clubs will move from Regional NLS Feeder Leagues to Step 6 (to bring Step 6 divisions to their full quota, taking into account the reduced number of divisions going forwards).
3. The mechanism for selecting clubs required to move into the new divisions at Step 4 and Step 5 will be as follows:
   1. Each Club will be allocated an unweighted points per game figure on the basis of its completed fixtures in both the 2019/20 and 2020/21 seasons, i.e. the club’s total points across both seasons will be added together and divided by the number of games it has played across both seasons[1].
   2. Clubs will then be ranked within their respective leagues on the basis of those calculations.
   3. Clubs who are eligible for upward movement will be identified as follows:

4. Step 5 – The top 3 ranked clubs from each of the North West Counties League, Northern Counties East League and Northern League, along with the top ranked Club from the remaining eleven Step 5 divisions, will be considered eligible for upward movement to Step 4 and will be invited to make an application to do so. Multiple clubs will be upwardly moved from these specific leagues, as per the previous ratification by FA Council, in order to address specific challenges with travelling distance and time which exist at Step 4.
5. Step 6 – The top 2 ranked clubs in each of the South West Peninsula League divisions, along with the top 3 ranked clubs from the eighteen remaining Step 6 divisions, will be considered eligible for upward movement to Step 5 and will be invited to make an application for upward movement. Fewer clubs will be upwardly moved from the South West Peninsula League Divisions, as per the previous ratification by FA Council, on the basis of geographical reasons for the relevant divisions at Step 5.

• The Committees are currently considering what additional requirements clubs who are eligible based on sporting merit will be required to meet in order to be upwardly moved via this process and further details will be communicated on this in due course.   

not making the standard any better it’s making travel unbearable 

[play for the badge]

can someone point me in the direction of the final decision document please. all i can find on the fa website is the proposal document that they will be considering for sign off. can’t remember where I saw it but I seen a timeline for the decision process and when they’ll issue the final league constitutions I.e who will be be going into which league’s. sure it said sometime in may time so as it stands nobody is up or moved sideways. I’m confused 

[Philheybrookbay]

2 hours ago, Journeyman009 said:

No way saltash will compete in that league.. ain’t got the monies and people like Ryan lucassi up top and Chris menheink at the back .... 🤦‍♂️ Dane will be sacked by Christmas 

Joke how a club like saltash can go up ... 

1. 1. One new division will be created at Step 4, to be administered by the Northern Premier League;
   2. Two new divisions will be created at Step 5, to be administered by the Combined Counties League and the United Counties League; and
   3. The number of divisions at Step 6 will be reduced to 17.
2. In order to implement these divisional changes, 110 clubs will be required to upwardly move within the pyramid at Steps 4 to 6:
   1. 20 clubs will move from Step 5 to Step 4;
   2. 60 clubs will move from Step 6 to Step 5 (20 to backfill those Clubs elevated to Step 4, and 40 to populate the two new divisions); and
   3. 30 clubs will move from Regional NLS Feeder Leagues to Step 6 (to bring Step 6 divisions to their full quota, taking into account the reduced number of divisions going forwards).
3. The mechanism for selecting clubs required to move into the new divisions at Step 4 and Step 5 will be as follows:
   1. Each Club will be allocated an unweighted points per game figure on the basis of its completed fixtures in both the 2019/20 and 2020/21 seasons, i.e. the club’s total points across both seasons will be added together and divided by the number of games it has played across both seasons[1].
   2. Clubs will then be ranked within their respective leagues on the basis of those calculations.
   3. Clubs who are eligible for upward movement will be identified as follows:

4. Step 5 – The top 3 ranked clubs from each of the North West Counties League, Northern Counties East League and Northern League, along with the top ranked Club from the remaining eleven Step 5 divisions, will be considered eligible for upward movement to Step 4 and will be invited to make an application to do so. Multiple clubs will be upwardly moved from these specific leagues, as per the previous ratification by FA Council, in order to address specific challenges with travelling distance and time which exist at Step 4.
5. Step 6 – The top 2 ranked clubs in each of the South West Peninsula League divisions, along with the top 3 ranked clubs from the eighteen remaining Step 6 divisions, will be considered eligible for upward movement to Step 5 and will be invited to make an application for upward movement. Fewer clubs will be upwardly moved from the South West Peninsula League Divisions, as per the previous ratification by FA Council, on the basis of geographical reasons for the relevant divisions at Step 5.

• The Committees are currently considering what additional requirements clubs who are eligible based on sporting merit will be required to meet in order to be upwardly moved via this process and further details will be communicated on this in due course.   

not making the standard any better it’s making travel 

Someone is jealous 😁😁

Who should have gone up then? 

[play for the badge]

Found it now

22 April - FA Council to meet to decide if they approve the restructure proposal

26 April to 3 May - Clubs that can apply for promotion would send in their applications 

17 May - League constitutions, sideways movements and promotions are set to be confirmed by the FA

i bet helston and saltash are busy writing their applications straight away and ready to post off in a couple weeks and ready to to check their postboxes middle of May to see if they’ve been successful. Would be good for them and other teams in the whole country 

[Ian Pethick]

As a Parkway fan who is desperate for promotion (and believes it is something the club now needs), to go up in this manner has an unsatisfactory feel about it. I can only imagine how it would feel to be relegated in this manner.

Regarding the Peninsula West, I imagine there are a few disappointed people at Trungle Park. Mousehole were (alongside Saltash) the best team in the league last season. Helston were very much mid table.

Anyway, lot of interesting reading from the non league matters website.

 

Step 4 map 2021/22 based upon these proposals.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=en&mid=1xDDiBWj8Z7dH48qi1fs1uctdkDCvjTbu&ll=51.7545890080044%2C-2.5142100906249394&z=7

 

 

Step 5 map 2021/22 based upon these proposals.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=en&mid=1mIEFkuyVSk6lxMslkzssxOHxH_Cb4Wtd&ll=52.992123803603995%2C-3.509722368937344&z=7

 

Step 6 map 2021/22 based upon these proposals.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=en&mid=1VgPz8-X_CcErAbCzlKnLFUsegJ4Z-qCk&ll=52.380234783125395%2C-2.0735212718750162&z=7

 

PPG tables

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FjxuhKsx8e2G0wgkz8yKTZbaaIcbKQRTvW7LIhlgmlA/edit#gid=1751632526

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A 

[Dave Deacon]

20 minutes ago, Way Of The Park said:

I can only imagine how it would feel to be relegated in this manner.

Are there any?

[Philheybrookbay]

Not just Saltash and Helston. Millbrook have a top two PPG from the East so potentially 3 Cornwall teams could apply for promotion. Other East team is Ilfracombe.

[Ian Pethick]

17 minutes ago, Dave Deacon said:

Are there any?

Need to study it further. Shuffling teams around and adding divisions could avoid it I guess.

13 minutes ago, Philheybrookbay said:

Not just Saltash and Helston. Millbrook have a top two PPG from the East so potentially 3 Cornwall teams could apply for promotion. Other East team is Ilfracombe.

Millbrook, very much an under the radar team. Top of a strong Peninsula East, and a club that have come a long way both on and off the pitch. Western League teams will enjoy midweek trips to Jenkins Park. 😀

[Haveyouheard]

How can a team sat 11th get promoted. Embarrassing for the league to decide it in this way when other teams proved far better this season than previous! 

[100%cornish]

I reckon Saltash will do very well in the Western League they have a steady defence and 1 of the best strikers around in Ryan Richards i reckon they could be a top 6 team and i reckon Helston will struggle and get relegated ,i think lots of the players will leave because of the travelling long old way from Helston to BRISTOL nearly every other week . 

[Hands like shovels]

5 hours ago, Philheybrookbay said:

Well, personally I'm looking forward to some new grounds. But within a few years, the Western League will be like the SWPL with the likes of Mousehole,  St Blazey, Falmouth up. If you pay mega bucks and win, then simply its onwards to the Southern League. If you refuse- automatic relegation back to SWPL. 

You don't have to pay mega bucks to be successful, a lot of clubs build a squad and management team that stay together and improve year in year out so not always about money.

[Richard Chown]

You will find a lot of these clubs around the inner cities don't pay players to play at that level because there  is a abundance of players of that calibre to pick from.  I had a colleague who was playing Northern Premier on the weekends and he laughed at me when I said Truro City players were getting paid all those years ago.

 

[Hands like shovels]

3 minutes ago, Richard Chown said:

You will find a lot of these clubs around the inner cities don't pay players to play at that level because their is a abundence of players of that calibre to pick from.  I had a colleague who was playing Northern Premier on the weekends and he laughed at me when I said Truro City players were getting paid all those years ago.

 

Very true Richard, there are plenty of clubs where the lads still pay subs to play for their club 😃👍

[play for the badge]

25 minutes ago, 100%cornish said:

I reckon Saltash will do very well in the Western League they have a steady defence and 1 of the best strikers around in Ryan Richards i reckon they could be a top 6 team and i reckon Helston will struggle and get relegated ,i think lots of the players will leave because of the travelling long old way from Helston to BRISTOL nearly every other week . 

Didn’t think dual registrations were allowed. How could richards play for 2 teams at once?

[Dan Balsdon]

31 minutes ago, 100%cornish said:

I reckon Saltash will do very well in the Western League they have a steady defence and 1 of the best strikers around in Ryan Richards i reckon they could be a top 6 team and i reckon Helston will struggle and get relegated ,i think lots of the players will leave because of the travelling long old way from Helston to BRISTOL nearly every other week . 

Ryan moved to Parkway a couple of years back 100% Cornish. Still got some top players. As always will be interesting to compare lineups if they do go up. Can't blame players who cannot commit fully due to work. 

[Ian Pethick]

38 minutes ago, Richard Chown said:

You will find a lot of these clubs around the inner cities don't pay players to play at that level because their is a abundence of players of that calibre to pick from.  I had a colleague who was playing Northern Premier on the weekends and he laughed at me when I said Truro City players were getting paid all those years ago.

 

Blokes who I work with choke on their tea when I tell them what some players at step 5 and 6 level are rumoured to be getting as expenses, there are plenty of clubs at that level in Greater London area who don't pay at all. Mind you, ex Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea etc schoolboys and trialists seem to be ten a penny round here.

[Journeyman009]

4 hours ago, Philheybrookbay said:

Someone is jealous 😁😁

Who should have gone up then? 

Not jealous just my opinion ta. Mousehole 100% watched them a lot and they could compete and got the infrastructure and a system to work . The travelling and the wages I don’t think saltash will do much unless the have a massive turnaround of players . Unless they happy to be bottom half . Could get all the parkway fringe players potentially but yet again money talks  

[Hands like shovels]

31 minutes ago, Journeyman009 said:

Not jealous just my opinion ta. Mousehole 100% watched them a lot and they could compete and got the infrastructure and a system to work . The travelling and the wages I don’t think saltash will do much unless the have a massive turnaround of players . Unless they happy to be bottom half . Could get all the parkway fringe players potentially but yet again money talks  

I agree it's tough on Mousehole and Brixham in the East Div as equally deserve the opportunity but we only get 4 spaces instead of 6 sadly.

Money doesn't always talk Journeyman, you can still achieve many things and be successful without chucking everything at it and to go western league with a view of instant promotion to the southern league is a tad short sighted unless like certain clubs you have a rich benefactor.

Higher league opposition, longer travel distances all play a part and having seen step 5 opposition in the vase any of the sides eligible could hold their own and stabilise first season in then build from there who knows what's possible for all our local sides over the next couple of seasons.

[John Davies]

For me, it’s not fair. It’s going to seem a bit sour grapes following Mousehole, but of the teams that have been promoted via PPG, they’ve not played each other often. That alone would drop points, let alone the fact these are technically the top sides.

For example, Helston and Saltash didn’t play a single game against each other in either season. Millbrook and Ilfracombe played each other once. Other teams in the PPG top 5, have played against other sides. 
 

For me, coming from and supporting Swindon, accepted this last season as it suited us, so I completely understand, but it didn’t feel right. 
 

I’ve not analysed who’s played who across the seasons, but those stats alone show that it’s not been completely fair, especially in the East, where there was 0.15 of a point between 2nd and 5th. A single win or loss for any of these sides would have changed it all. This lack of consistency of opposition, is why I’m opposed. It was bad enough the EFL doing it for a single season, let alone this suggestion of 2 combined, where some teams have never met and others have met 4 times!

[Journeyman009]

4 hours ago, Philheybrookbay said:

Not just Saltash and Helston. Millbrook have a top two PPG from the East so potentially 3 Cornwall teams could apply for promotion. Other East team is Ilfracombe.

Brixham and ilficombe and millbrook and torpoint it’s close between those lot from the east .. even tho torpoint and millbrook should be in the west . Back both millbrook they been very good last 2 seasons all local lads 

4 hours ago, 100%cornish said:

I reckon Saltash will do very well in the Western League they have a steady defence and 1 of the best strikers around in Ryan Richards i reckon they could be a top 6 team and i reckon Helston will struggle and get relegated ,i think lots of the players will leave because of the travelling long old way from Helston to BRISTOL nearly every other week . 

Richards plays for parkway 👀😂😂

4 hours ago, Hands like shovels said:

You don't have to pay mega bucks to be successful, a lot of clubs build a squad and management team that stay together and improve year in year out so not always about money.

Yeah ok then 😂money talks the odd back hander managers even pay out of there own pocket .😂😂

[Philheybrookbay]

3 hours ago, John Davies said:

For me, it’s not fair. It’s going to seem a bit sour grapes following Mousehole, but of the teams that have been promoted via PPG, they’ve not played each other often. That alone would drop points, let alone the fact these are technically the top sides.

For example, Helston and Saltash didn’t play a single game against each other in either season. Millbrook and Ilfracombe played each other once. Other teams in the PPG top 5, have played against other sides. 
 

For me, coming from and supporting Swindon, accepted this last season as it suited us, so I completely understand, but it didn’t feel right. 
 

I’ve not analysed who’s played who across the seasons, but those stats alone show that it’s not been completely fair, especially in the East, where there was 0.15 of a point between 2nd and 5th. A single win or loss for any of these sides would have changed it all. This lack of consistency of opposition, is why I’m opposed. It was bad enough the EFL doing it for a single season, let alone this suggestion of 2 combined, where some teams have never met and others have met 4 times!

So in 2019-2020 Saltash lost to Mousehole and drew at home. This season we beat Mousehole away back in early September. Yes we played Helston and best them in the LC but not the league. 

But equally- remember Saltash got given 3 points but no goals thanks to a no show by a team in 2020. We could have been top on goals if that had been played. Who knows...

The way the league fixtures worked out both in 2019/20 and what was 2020 season saw a LOT of games played close by, but not longer distance. 

What you have to expect is that a lot of this promotion is being driven by circumstances up country. 

As I read it, no teams are being relegated in the pyramid and teams are being invited to apply for higher levels. In an ideal world with no Covid 2 full seasons would be nearly complete. They can't be so its next best thing. 

 

[100%cornish]

I should of known Ryan Richards where at Parkway hes scoring enough goals for them , that will be Saltash downfall who will get the goals because Sam Hughes and Mike Smith are not 30 goal a season strikers but i expect Dane realises that and will no doubt have a top striker in mind maybe Adam Carter to see how he goes he was scoring a lot of goals for Parkway now hes at Torpoint i heard it was because of the travelling but hes still a top class striker I think its unfair that MOUSEHOLE have not gone up they where the best side i saw play last year and i reckon they  are far better than Helston 

[John Davies]

1 hour ago, Philheybrookbay said:

So in 2019-2020 Saltash lost to Mousehole and drew at home. This season we beat Mousehole away back in early September. Yes we played Helston and best them in the LC but not the league. 

But equally- remember Saltash got given 3 points but no goals thanks to a no show by a team in 2020. We could have been top on goals if that had been played. Who knows...

The way the league fixtures worked out both in 2019/20 and what was 2020 season saw a LOT of games played close by, but not longer distance. 

What you have to expect is that a lot of this promotion is being driven by circumstances up country. 

As I read it, no teams are being relegated in the pyramid and teams are being invited to apply for higher levels. In an ideal world with no Covid 2 full seasons would be nearly complete. They can't be so its next best thing. 

 

I already quoted that other teams in the PPG running had played others, exactly proving my point, that the teams profiting from this have mainly avoided each other. I stated I haven’t looked at every teams fixtures played and cancelled, nor will I try, but the obvious observation was to check the 4 fixtures between each of the above. At Mousehole, we’d played all the sides twice bar Falmouth, but this isn’t about us. It’s about fairness and the integrity of sport. 
 
Whilst I wouldn’t expect such calculations, the only fair ways would be:

1. Count 1 single fixture against each side, but this still wouldn’t work due to home advantage.

2. FIFA Coefficient style grading, where the points gained depends on the oppositions ranking. Obviously, this would take way too much time to administer. 
 

A league is just that, each team plays each other once, home and away, the same as every other team. Why do results get voided when a team pulls out, if this format is allowed to go ahead?

[WendronOfficial]

Surprised nobody is talking about teams that stand to be promoted to the league. Some good clubs in contention with Penryn and Hayle from St Piran West. Truro Reserves too - could be interesting to see their pull of players, will it be mainly their current u18, where will they be playing, will they be granted permission to go straight into the league? 

[Mike Odgers]

2 hours ago, WendronOfficial said:

Surprised nobody is talking about teams that stand to be promoted to the league. Some good clubs in contention with Penryn and Hayle from St Piran West. Truro Reserves too - could be interesting to see their pull of players, will it be mainly their current u18, where will they be playing, will they be granted permission to go straight into the league? 

Truro City-Playing on what ground?--I do recall Plymouth Parkway playing a full season away from Home in the SWL

 

[sportsman10]

It’s always the traveling that is the downfall. Parkway have a proper coach paid for and laid on for players to relax in. 

 Players on massive money  for midweek games. 

Not sure saltash players fancy driving up to Bristol 5 in a car midweek for what they earn  now  

parkway also get 300 plus at home saltash lucky to get 60  -70  not sure where the money to compete is going to come from 

 

[Philheybrookbay]

5 hours ago, sportsman10 said:

It’s always the traveling that is the downfall. Parkway have a proper coach paid for and laid on for players to relax in. 

 Players on massive money  for midweek games. 

Not sure saltash players fancy driving up to Bristol 5 in a car midweek for what they earn  now  

parkway also get 300 plus at home saltash lucky to get 60  -70  not sure where the money to compete is going to come from 

 

Parkway yes average attendance 297 in 2020 season.

Saltash (sadly including a 0 attendance- thanks to Godolphin) average 161.  

Equally, perhaps the Saltash players the majority of which have been together for years will be happy still playing as a team? 

I'd rather be sustainable than boom and then bust. 

 

At the end of the day- if last two seasons had been normal, I'd say its fair to say Saltash, Helston and Mousehole would be now at Step 5 with 2 up from 2019-2020 and the champions of 2020-2021. But life hasn't been fair and I've little doubt that instead of SWPL W cornish fixtures, Western League Cornish fixtures will become the norm within the next 10 years.

[Dave Deacon]

3 hours ago, Philheybrookbay said:

and I've little doubt that instead of SWPL W cornish fixtures, Western League Cornish fixtures will become the norm within the next 10 years.

Just a shame we’ve had to wait 14 years to realise this!

[hills19]

Good post Phil. Is it one of those get a few up there and it opens the door to more?! It’s a shame as I am guessing more clubs and players would want to go as high as possible but cost and location has had to come into it. I’ve always thought unless you have dreams of making it up the pyramid then it’s difficult for clubs.

Do all Western League clubs have the same level of support as Parkway?! They didn’t a few years ago. 

I think (im not on committee) Saltash since the new leagues formed have intended to go up if possible. Dane in a tweet the other night made reference to a great football man involved in the club at the time talked of promotion. It’s nice to read Helston have had aims despite their location. Personally haven’t heard about Mousehole but imagine they would.

 

The nice thing for me. The players have been loyal over the years and helped build Saltash to title contenders. I’ve seen teams just seem to throw money at it. Matt started it bringing silverware to the club then Dane has managed to carry on. There was no coincidence Matt did well, I remember one season you could see the players had a proper training plan in the way they approached pre season high intensity. I think Matt called it a project. Dane has carried it on well and watching game after game this season, the club were in a great position to have a title race. The football before all these lockdowns has been great to watch. All the strikers chipping in during the season. Those early FA cup games this season and a result down Mousehole showed the great team spirit and togetherness in the squad. Just going to the ground I’ve had a feel good vibe this season, the committee happy and welcoming, results on the pitch. I don’t think money has to come into it for the Western League, keep this spirit and it can bode well as a fan, I don’t know what the score is behind the scences/ if it will have to change etc. Granted people may think can they stay now with jobs etc. The first person I’ve asked though has said they’re staying. Seen a positive reaction on twitter from someone else on the news.
 

Travelling can be great fun. I’ve watched rugby away at least 3 hours away in a national league for 5 seasons. Bristol just the start of many journeys. Yes it takes time etc but it’s great. And at least Bristol journeys will let you go out if you want on a Saturday night.

Midweeks could be difficult for everyone. I’ll miss what have been easy trips around Cornwall, always atmospheric  but even that’s thanks to someone kind to give me a lift otherwise wouldn’t be able to. It’s a balance isn’t it, do people want higher league football or the chance of making every game, we’ve seen timmyraa’s family commitments, he follows the team every game and won’t be able to now. Like myself, in my view it will be a shame not to make them but good to follow from afar. I won’t know though until the night of an evening game when having to watch tele, will I have to be there. I’ve had one or two away this season I couldn’t make and appreciated the results still and following online.

[Peter Hickman]

Does anyone know, how the FA can use PPG from a season that was declared null and void and wiped from the records? It's an almighty U Turn... Helston for example have been a shadow of their former self this season.. with players leaving for pastures new ... If clubs are to be promoted on Sporting Merit perhaps a more detailed and robust assessment of their upward trajectory should be undertaken... 

[Ian Pethick]

1 hour ago, hills19 said:

Good post Phil. Is it one of those get a few up there and it opens the door to more?! It’s a shame as I am guessing more clubs and players would want to go as high as possible but cost and location has had to come into it. I’ve always thought unless you have dreams of making it up the pyramid then it’s difficult for clubs.

Do all Western League clubs have the same level of support as Parkway?! They didn’t a few years ago. 

I think (im not on committee) Saltash since the new leagues formed have intended to go up if possible. Dane in a tweet the other night made reference to a great football man involved in the club at the time talked of promotion. It’s nice to read Helston have had aims despite their location. Personally haven’t heard about Mousehole but imagine they would.

 

The nice thing for me. The players have been loyal over the years and helped build Saltash to title contenders. I’ve seen teams just seem to throw money at it. Matt started it bringing silverware to the club then Dane has managed to carry on. There was no coincidence Matt did well, I remember one season you could see the players had a proper training plan in the way they approached pre season high intensity. I think Matt called it a project. Dane has carried it on well and watching game after game this season, the club were in a great position to have a title race. The football before all these lockdowns has been great to watch. All the strikers chipping in during the season. Those early FA cup games this season and a result down Mousehole showed the great team spirit and togetherness in the squad. Just going to the ground I’ve had a feel good vibe this season, the committee happy and welcoming, results on the pitch. I don’t think money has to come into it for the Western League, keep this spirit and it can bode well as a fan, I don’t know what the score is behind the scences/ if it will have to change etc. Granted people may think can they stay now with jobs etc. The first person I’ve asked though has said they’re staying. Seen a positive reaction on twitter from someone else on the news.
 

Travelling can be great fun. I’ve watched rugby away at least 3 hours away in a national league for 5 seasons. Bristol just the start of many journeys. Yes it takes time etc but it’s great. And at least Bristol journeys will let you go out if you want on a Saturday night.

Midweeks could be difficult for everyone. I’ll miss what have been easy trips around Cornwall, always atmospheric  but even that’s thanks to someone kind to give me a lift otherwise wouldn’t be able to. It’s a balance isn’t it, do people want higher league football or the chance of making every game, we’ve seen timmyraa’s family commitments, he follows the team every game and won’t be able to now. Like myself, in my view it will be a shame not to make them but good to follow from afar. I won’t know though until the night of an evening game when having to watch tele, will I have to be there. I’ve had one or two away this season I couldn’t make and appreciated the results still and following online.

Great post. We shouldn't forget that Tavistock have also gone up and challenged strongly (they were top and very much in the mix for the WL title before the season was halted in 2019/20, and finished in second place on the combined season's PPG for the Western League Prem). No idea what their budget is, but they seem to have the same sort of blueprint as Saltash have used with an established core of players who been at the club for a few seasons now (Josh Robins and Dave Hallet were around back in the SW Peninsula Div 1 days)with one or two key additions  each season.  The manager and staff have been there a while, and the fact that they largely have kept this squad together for a few years now, shows that the players rate them and want to stay. Also, like the Ashes, they have been able to integrate youngsters into the team when the time is right. A lot of clubs would do well to have a look at how Tavistock have gone about things.

[The Town Man]

Could be an option now for Torpoint to come back into Peninsula League West?

 

I think the league will need it to maintain the quality of football if they lose Helston and Saltash.

[le boss]

2 hours ago, Steven Seagul said:

Does anyone know, how the FA can use PPG from a season that was declared null and void and wiped from the records? It's an almighty U Turn... Helston for example have been a shadow of their former self this season.. with players leaving for pastures new ... If clubs are to be promoted on Sporting Merit perhaps a more detailed and robust assessment of their upward trajectory should be undertaken... 

Or are you just implying that Mousehole should be included in the offer of promotion?? 

The sooner the Western League encompasses all of the counties in the West, the better. If more Cornish and maybe West Devon teams are in the league, then maybe more teams will be persuaded to take the leap and the travelling to Bristol etc will be the exception and not the rule. Ambitious clubs should be grateful that clubs are attempting to tip the balance in Cornwall's favour and to all those cynics/moaners - Saltash and Helston didn't make the rule......

[cornishteddyboy]

How many are like me and think the FA should have left everything alone and kept the SWPL Premier, East and West.

Instead of forcing teams from our two counties Eastwards they should have forced teams Westwards to join the SWPL Premier.

Less disruption.

[Philheybrookbay]

16 minutes ago, cornishteddyboy said:

How many are like me and think the FA should have left everything alone and kept the SWPL Premier, East and West.

Instead of forcing teams from our two counties Eastwards they should have forced teams Westwards to join the SWPL Premier.

Less disruption.

The problem is/was that when you had that structure- only Buckland went up until Parkway, then Tavistock and Exmouth. Spotting an issue here?? No Cornwall teams entertained it bar St Austell who i think got turned down on ground issues since resolved. 

Now we have 4 teams going up in 2021 Summer, with 1 more each year from East and West in 2022 onwards.

The FA is appearing to be very keen to move more of Eastern Western League teams to the Hellenic league. 

So even if no ex SWPL teams are promoted to Southern league and no one relegated back to SWPL then in 5 years, you could have upto 18 teams from Devon and Cornwall in the Western League (existing 4, plus 4 this year plus 2 in each 5 years). But I strongly suspect some like Tavistock and Helston may wish to push on if financially possible. 

Its a change i saw with my old team Glossop North End. We were in NWCL Premier,  and now they're a level higher after promotion into NPL 1st Div S, playing mostly our old colleagues from NWCL! 

[Ian Pethick]

45 minutes ago, cornishteddyboy said:

How many are like me and think the FA should have left everything alone and kept the SWPL Premier, East and West.

Instead of forcing teams from our two counties Eastwards they should have forced teams Westwards to join the SWPL Premier.

Less disruption.

Sometimes wonder if it's a bit of payback for the  Cornish clubs. It must have been noted within the FA that St Blazey ( seven SWL titles in nine seasons) and Bodmin (four Peninsula Leagues in six seasons) were dominating the league scene, earning a few quid from Vase and FA Cup runs, yet never entertaining thoughts of promotion.  

I can hear the top being taken off a can of worms ....🙄

[Peter Hickman]

2 hours ago, le boss said:

Or are you just implying that Mousehole should be included in the offer of promotion?? 

The sooner the Western League encompasses all of the counties in the West, the better. If more Cornish and maybe West Devon teams are in the league, then maybe more teams will be persuaded to take the leap and the travelling to Bristol etc will be the exception and not the rule. Ambitious clubs should be grateful that clubs are attempting to tip the balance in Cornwall's favour and to all those cynics/moaners - Saltash and Helston didn't make the rule......

No one is implying anything .... If you read my post, the question is how can a "null and void season" be used in a formula to decide promotion... After by definition 2019/20 season does not exist.

My example of Helston highlights the obvious floors in this formula...  There are many potential ways of deciding and no one way is the best, that's why it should by a more considered and robust process.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rob1978]

3 hours ago, The Town Man said:

Could be an option now for Torpoint to come back into Peninsula League West?

 

I think the league will need it to maintain the quality of football if they lose Helston and Saltash.

Teams are promoted and relegated by steps, not leagues. So if Torpoint end up as one of the 20 most westerly teams, they will be in swp west. If not they will be in the east. It’s that simple

[Rob1978]

A few years ago there were only 2 Devon/Cornwall teams in Western. Next season there will be 7. If teams keep taking promotion this will increase. Going on club size/resources there is no reason why Western league should go further than mid Somerset. (Old Swpl plus a few others). Travel has already been reduced with half of the Bristol clubs laterally moved to Hellenic - subject to Fa ratification. Yet we still hear the same old moans about travel. If Cornish paid similar expenses to clubs up the line, they would be fine. Surely even Bodmin will want to move up from what is slowly becoming a village league. Good luck to Saltash and Helston. Yes they will possibly lose some players to swpl rivals next season, but they will keep those who are ambitious. I hope Millbrook are able to join them. What a great story that would be. However unlike some of the bigger clubs, it wouldn’t be unreasonable if they felt that they were already at their limit. 

[Philheybrookbay]

1 hour ago, Way Of The Park said:

Sometimes wonder if it's a bit of payback for the  Cornish clubs. It must have been noted within the FA that St Blazey ( seven SWL titles in nine seasons) and Bodmin (four Peninsula Leagues in six seasons) were dominating the league scene, earning a few quid from Vase and FA Cup runs, yet never entertaining thoughts of promotion.  

I can hear the top being taken off a can of worms ....🙄

You may think that- and I couldn't possibly comment. Cough AFC Sudbury and Wroxham in 90s as well. 

But if you win the SWPL W you have to have a strong and robust reason to now refuse promotion. Once the FA may give you leeway. But the days of winning and staying put year on year are gone and the FA can and have relegate a club for refusing promotion.

Just look at Andover in the Wessex. Won Premier at a canter, paying players a fortune, claimed they couldn't afford promotion. No problem said FA- play in Wessex Division 1 at a level you can afford. Won the league and got relegated! I think they did the same to Cinderford or Cirencester on refusing promotion In SPL.  

[Rob1978]

Whilst on the subject of promotion; a few seasons ago I suggested that Devon could easily end up with 6 Southern league clubs. A few people mocked that, but if Parkway go up, that is exactly what we will have. Good times for football in the county.

[Philheybrookbay]

1 minute ago, Rob1978 said:

Whilst on the subject of promotion; a few seasons ago I suggested that Devon could easily end up with 6 Southern league clubs. A few people mocked that, but if Parkway go up, that is exactly what we will have. Good times for football in the county.

It is, and I can see the Southern League having Cornish Teams bar Truro in the next few years as well. 

[Millbrook Chairman]

1 hour ago, Rob1978 said:

A few years ago there were only 2 Devon/Cornwall teams in Western. Next season there will be 7. If teams keep taking promotion this will increase. Going on club size/resources there is no reason why Western league should go further than mid Somerset. (Old Swpl plus a few others). Travel has already been reduced with half of the Bristol clubs laterally moved to Hellenic - subject to Fa ratification. Yet we still hear the same old moans about travel. If Cornish paid similar expenses to clubs up the line, they would be fine. Surely even Bodmin will want to move up from what is slowly becoming a village league. Good luck to Saltash and Helston. Yes they will possibly lose some players to swpl rivals next season, but they will keep those who are ambitious. I hope Millbrook are able to join them. What a great story that would be. However unlike some of the bigger clubs, it wouldn’t be unreasonable if they felt that they were already at their limit. 

At this Stage Rob we will remain silent until the FA Council have ratified the re structure, once that milestone has passed and been rubber stamped and we have an full understanding of what it means for us as a club financially we will announce our intentions.

The announcement surprised many of us and I can imagine our friends at Mousehole and Brixham will feel bitterly disappointed not to be included so let's see what happens over the coming days and go from there as lots to talk about behind the scenes 😃👍